the 45-100 (2.6" case) and the spartan double are a combo that cant be beat...

thank you starline



it will make a good pig gun for when my retirement comes (in 30 years)

quote:

it will make a good pig gun for when my retirement comes (in 30 years)

It will take that long to get one the way Remington is going about it! Bill T.

quote:

Originally posted by billt:

quote:

it will make a good pig gun for when my retirement comes (in 30 years)

It will take that long to get one the way Remington is going about it! Bill T.

I must say that the best term I can use to describe Remington lately is "INEPT"!

They just don't seem to be able to make anything happen.

quote:

Originally posted by billt:

quote:

If they look like this, and shoot minute of softball at 75yards, I'll be tickled.

When is the last time you got a hamburger at Burger King, and it looked like the one in the picture? Bill T.

If it was an unacceptable condition, for the value, it is returned for another one.

It's clear you aren't interested in one.. cool

jeffe

Boomstick,

you have got to think big (make that B-I-G!!)my friend. 45-120...at 30,000PSI it will boot 500gr RFN gc lead bullets over 2000fps. My Ruger #2 does that.

Rich

the 45-100 is cheaper and stronger...

although the 120 would qualify as a d.g. cart here piggy piggy piggy

quote:

It's clear you aren't interested in one.. cool

Actually I would be, if they were avaliable. It would make a nice companion piece to my Marlin Guide Gun and Magnum Research BFR Revolver in .45-70. But the point is Remington continuing jerking around of everyone with these guns. They produce no reasons for this, only speculation. Remington needs to get on the ball here. You have guys drooling for this gun, and they can't provide it, and it's already in production. Companies that operate like this deserve to go broke. I hope this doesn't happen to Remington, but the way they are going it's anybodys guess. Bill T.

Billt,.
so, and I have to ask, either it's junk junk junk, or remington is just jacking us around? I don't care which, but please stick to one, or at least close to one.

I disagree that remington is jerking anyone around... the dealers that took FULL PRICE deposits 4 years ago (some outfit in michigan) now THEY are jerking people around. That there is a series of issues, and changes, is just how life is. I work in the technology world... this happens EVERY DAY, and is something you just have to accept. For example "blu ray" dvd's, which are just NOW hitting the market, where invented in 1994!!!!!!! but the yield on the lasers was so low (percentage good) that IBM could not market them IN A PREDICTABLE PATTERN it took nearly 12 years, and 3/4 of their patent to expire, before the product was stable enough, and the EU would approve a blue laser for commerical use. This is very much like the baikal SxS, then eaa, then remington saga

Remington has been straight out communicative in the product, on dates, and EAA before them. Neither company, once, was reluctant to tell people when the date had moved, as soon as they knew.

For example,
hurdle 1
EEA had to work through Annex B issues. My mother is a retired customs person, and spent some time trying to explain annex B... essentially, if a gun comes from a former combloc country, it has to be specifically listed, type and caliber, in government docs... EAA didn't realize a modifed shotgun action would fall into this..

Hurdle 2
baikal had been "on hold" for the guns, but had made up ALOT of samples, waiting for annex B... and being courted by both remington AND savage to produce their SxS shotguns... apparenently without EAA's knowledge...

Hurdle 3 .. remington buys the factories shotgun production.. and EAA still doesn't have Annex B done. production now focuses on remington's shotguns... the "Spartan" company

From here forward, we now have the "multiplier" of complexity for remington, new to russian "business ethics" trying to run a company and figure out the bribes and payouts they have to make to get things done.

Hurdle 4 EAA gets annex B done, but Baikal "throws in" the double rifle production with the the shotgun lineup, offering to remington... remmie reduces available rounds to 30-06 and 45-70 (turns out this is a good plan)

one off samples make the rounds to shotshow, etc... feedback given on fit and function.. taken back to HQ and added to the product


Hurdle 5 - Remington gets production (not one off) samples in.. they fail "some" remington test...

Hurdle 6 - a "boat load" of them are made up, remmie gets samples, remington tests AGAIN... actions fail (last fall). With a known specific cure..

Hurdle 7 "new new" design features forced to be added to production, price goes up 50% due to these changes. on of the FEW signs that remington actually cares if they are sued or not, and the first glimmer of "better" management, to avoid lawsuits.

Hurdle 8
with the russians being russians, that several design changes were required, they COULD be dragging their feet, waiting for the next changes... Remington's tests apparaently have been passed, and we are now back to waiting for devliery ....


Reads to me, like tolstoy, of a long winded, russian business story... I happen to know that if they had been brought in 2003/2004, no-one would have been happy with the results, as the IZH43 has been destructive tested with 45/70 loads before... (remember, you could get inserts)...


Oh well, I am here to tell anyone that asks, even at TWICE the original price, these will be a steal...

jeffe

I've been following this drama for awhile now. It is very frustrating. However I will take one of each when they finally get here.

Jeffe,
You clearly have a grasp of doing business with the Federal Gov't and the Russians.
A friend is in business in a former Soviet country and his tales of bribery,etc will entertain for hours, i.e. the customs minister owns 10% of your business if not 30%.

I'm realistic enough to look at the price and not expect a Merkel, however I'll admit "junk" may have been a poor choice of words. The whole Remington thing should not have taken this long. We're not talking Lasers here, we're talking about a gun thats already been designed, and put into production. I should point out that Remington isn't the only one thats guilty of this. How long did Ruger catalog the Gold Label S/S before anyone actually saw one? Ruger however, isn't courting bankruptcy. This is going to wind up sink or swim for Remington. I hope they make it, and if they do I hope the S/S double is not a dissapointment in the quality dept. At this point I feel thats asking for a lot. Bill T.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/916504/000091650...0021/june300610q.htm

Securitys And Exchange Commision report on Remington Arms. Not good. Bill T.

What do you expect when you tie yourself to walmart. The mart stores are not interested in quality, just quantity. Remington quality has gone downhill for at least the last 10 years. Now they are importing guns from third rate manufacturers and stamping their name on them. No wonder they are losing money. Sounds like a repeat of Winchester.

quote:

Sounds like a repeat of Winchester.

They, (Winchester), had the "Black Shadow", Remington has the 710. Same crap, different box, same result. Sell junk, go broke. Bill T.

Those Russians are something else. A friend was in Siberia for the start up of a Marion Shovel and the Russians did not pay at the last moment.

So my friend, who is a retired sniper, ended up in the shovel turned 90 degrees so nobody could climb in along with the Marion guys. The Russians called out the army.

There they were up in the air in Siberia surrounded by the Russian army. Now thats a tough spot to be in don't you think?

A gunshop here has been after this SXS for years. When they get one in, if ever, I will look and make up my mind then.