I have a left-hand Ruger 77 in .300Win Mag that I bought from a gentleman in near new shape for a very good price (he didn't like the recoil). I have a similar rifle in my .395Max caliber (no, it is .395). Any recommendations on a case to fit this Ruger action and neck to .458 caliber? I've already considered the .375 Ruger case. May use it, but thought I'd ask if something else is out there providing a little more capacity.

I put my 585 in a couple Ruger 77s.

I got a bunch of the shorter 585 SHE cases. With same size base

as my 585 with no belt, you could neck down.Ed

Max,

For your specified .458 caliber -
1) 375/416 Ruger case (you've already identified) will put you at Lott capacity/performance at the standard Ruger case length; simple neck up or just use the .375 Basic Brass.
2) 458 B&M Ex (new 2.5" case length - a shortened RUM case) will also put you at Lott capacity/performance. Or,
3) 458 AccRel (2.55" case length - also a shortened Rum case) will give you a bit more capacity/performance than the Lott.
These three case combos will give you the best bang for your buck.

Ed,

Your 585 SHE cartridge still prods the back of the brain cells periodically, one of these days I'll have to seriously consider chambering a rifle for it.

458 Lott, or 470 Capstick...?

Factory ammunition is available for either, as well as a good selection of bullets and headstamped brass.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
458 Lott, or 470 Capstick...?

Factory ammunition is available for either, as well as a good selection of bullets and headstamped brass.

Both will work on the M77 RSM action. The 300 WinMag is chambered in the standard length M77 MkII action which must be opened up to accommodate the 3.6" COAL (similar to work required for the standard M98 Mauser action to accomodate 3.6" COAL).

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
Max,

For your specified .458 caliber -
1) 375/416 Ruger case (you've already identified) will put you at Lott capacity/performance at the standard Ruger case length; simple neck up or just use the .375 Basic Brass.
2) 458 B&M Ex (new 2.5" case length - a shortened RUM case) will also put you at Lott capacity/performance. Or,
3) 458 AccRel (2.55" case length - also a shortened Rum case) will give you a bit more capacity/performance than the Lott.
These three case combos will give you the best bang for your buck.

Ed,

Your 585 SHE cartridge still prods the back of the brain cells periodically, one of these days I'll have to seriously consider chambering a rifle for it.

The 458 AccRel and 458 B&M-extended should save you the headache and expense of having reamers and sizing dies made up. Ditto for the 585. For the 458 "Ruger" you would probably need to develop your own reamer and sizers.

If you want to split the difference between 458 and 585 you can go 500AccRel, although I do not know if sizing dies are available at the moment.

Thanks guys for your help. Considering everything, I might as well keep to the Ruger family of cases and use the .375 Ruger case as I did for the .395 Max. The .395 Max will actually do all I want (have never had a desire to shoot a pachyderm), but there is that niggling thought in the brain of just having something capable of taking anything on this earth. Hmph, may have to lay down on my own couch for a little counseling and therapy.

Max,

The .375/416 Ruger case expanded to .458 caliber is a nice upgrade to your 395 Max.

If you really want to move up in thump - I have to finish reamer and gauges for a .500 Ruger...designed to function in a 3.4" magazine (used 375 Ruger Basic brass). I also have a contoured and polished .500 caliber 1:12" twist Pac-Nor CM Super Match grade barrel that I didn't use in my 12.7x68 Magnum build.

Jim,
I will definitely think about your generous offer. I had not thought of anything larger than .458 because of the lack of use for it (as if I had a large use for the .458). But...having one doesn't mean having a need for it.
Thanks, Max

actually...
550 express - 700gr at 2130
500 accrel - 535 at 2400+
476 accrel - 500 at 2400+
470 accrel - 500 at 2400+
458 accrel - 500 ar 2400+
416 accrel - but may as well do 416 ruger, there's next to zero real difference.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
Max,

The .375/416 Ruger case expanded to .458 caliber is a nice upgrade to your 395 Max.

If you really want to move up in thump - I have to finish reamer and gauges for a .500 Ruger...designed to function in a 3.4" magazine (used 375 Ruger Basic brass). I also have a contoured and polished .500 caliber 1:12" twist Pac-Nor CM Super Match grade barrel that I didn't use in my 12.7x68 Magnum build.

Now, what's this??? I didn't think the Ruger case could be taken up to 50 caliber. What kind of velocity will it give. . Here I was thinking the 470 AR was the biggest that would fit.

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
Max,

The .375/416 Ruger case expanded to .458 caliber is a nice upgrade to your 395 Max.

If you really want to move up in thump - I have to finish reamer and gauges for a .500 Ruger...designed to function in a 3.4" magazine (used 375 Ruger Basic brass). I also have a contoured and polished .500 caliber 1:12" twist Pac-Nor CM Super Match grade barrel that I didn't use in my 12.7x68 Magnum build.

Now, what's this??? I didn't think the Ruger case could be taken up to 50 caliber. What kind of velocity will it give. . Here I was thinking the 470 AR was the biggest that would fit.

I was thinking the same about the Ruger case potential not matching .500-.510". The Ruger casehead is only .532", so the case mouth, even at .013" thickness will only leave .506". That would be almost a perfectly straight walled case. For .500" and .510" diameters a person is better advised to go to the Rigby basic casehead, .590". That is wide enough to allow for both some taper and a little shoulder. See Jeffeoso's 500AccRel (Nyati), on Ammoguide.com.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
Max,

The .375/416 Ruger case expanded to .458 caliber is a nice upgrade to your 395 Max.

If you really want to move up in thump - I have to finish reamer and gauges for a .500 Ruger...designed to function in a 3.4" magazine (used 375 Ruger Basic brass). I also have a contoured and polished .500 caliber 1:12" twist Pac-Nor CM Super Match grade barrel that I didn't use in my 12.7x68 Magnum build.

Now, what's this??? I didn't think the Ruger case could be taken up to 50 caliber. What kind of velocity will it give. . Here I was thinking the 470 AR was the biggest that would fit.

I was thinking the same about the Ruger case potential not matching .500-.510". The Ruger casehead is only .532", so the case mouth, even at .013" thickness will only leave .506". That would be almost a perfectly straight walled case. For .500" and .510" diameters a person is better advised to go to the Rigby basic casehead, .590". That is wide enough to allow for both some taper and a little shoulder. See Jeffeoso's 500AccRel (Nyati), on Ammoguide.com.

Ok, starting LIFO…

Ed Hubel has squeezed his 585 SHE (2.70” case length – a shortened Gibbs/CheyTec derivative) cartridge into the Ruger M77 MkII standard action so I’d have to say that’s the largest case and rim diameter that’ll safely fit.

The 500 AccRel/AccRel Nyati (2.55” case length – a shortened Lapua/Rigby derivative) cartridge will work just fine from the Ruger M77 MkII standard action but will only hold 2-cartridges down.

The 500 B&M Ex (2.50” case length – a shortened RUM derivative) cartridge will also work just fine from the Ruger M77 MkII standard action and should still hold 3-cartridges down.

The 500 Ruger, which was developed a few years ago as a Ruger case prototype for a 50 MDM cartridge, a shortened RUM case was the other prototype. Yes it’s a pretty straight case but not completely as there is a 0.010” difference between the case body and mouth diameters. To put this into prospective, how about comparing to two handgun cartridges:
460 S&W Magnum – 61,931 PMap – zero difference between the case body and mouth diameters.
500 S&W Magnum – 61,931 PMap – zero difference between the case body and mouth diameters.

Way I figure, if a revolver can handle basically 62K psi and still eject a straight case then a CRF rifle ought to handle a slightly tapered case at the same pressure level. Here’s a photograph of the case with a number – at that time – Lehigh monometal copper bullets (before development of the BBW#13 bullets)… Oh yes, the case is 2.660” in length, formed from 375 Ruger Basic Brass:

That's a helpful post, Capo.

And Michael explained to me, again, last summer why a case-mouth headspacing is reliable.

But I would still feel pretty stupid in the bush if a rifle jammed or a case got stuck. I think that I would like more taper and I might even opt for a belt on a straight-walled case.

Didn't A2 also make a short, standard length version in .510", using a belted, 460 Weatherby case? That would fit in a Hawkeye, too.

Two-down versus three-down doesn't worry me so much, since I've never been able to fire more than three shots without getting a chance to feed more rounds into a magazine. It's the first shot that really counts.

Tanz,

Any rofle/cartridge feeding issues in DG country can be fatal.

Michael and I had numerous conversations regarding potential feeding or retension issues with the "almost straight" Ruger based 500.

The closest comparison we could identify was Michael's feeding and retension issues with his factory custom M70 rifles chambered in 470 Capstick. Brian was able to rectify all issues with Michael's Capsticks except for the oversize-bores (fired .475 caliber bullets are groove-less when recovered) which require a re-barreling to rectify.

Spec-to-spec cartridge wise, the 470 Capstick case has a 0.0136" case taper spread over 2.63" length of the case body whereas the 500 Ruger has a 0.010" case taper spread over 2.45" length of case body.

Because of the metalwork expenditures on my two FN commercial M98 Mauser actions - paired rifle concept - I didn't go with the Ruger based .500 wildcat - instead I went with .500 and .423 Lapua Magnum derivatives, after all who can really complain about brass that's spec'd to withstand a 68K PMap...

One of these days I'll have to pickup a M77 MkII CM in .375 Ruger and do a rebarrel job to test out the issues, or non-issues, of a Ruger based .500 caliber wildcat.

And I might add, Michael's new 500 B&M (2.50" case length) is about 5grs-maximum less overflow capacity than the 2.66" case length Ruger based .500 caliber cartridge plus it has the additional case taper you specify.

Good point. Feeding is a big deal. Just an honorable mention since you brought up a .500" cat. One of my wild kittens the 500 Kill All is a good .500" option. A belted rum to .500". See the link in my sigline. I have the reamers but no dies yet.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Good point. Feeding is a big deal. Just an honorable mention since you brought up a .500" cat. One of my wild kittens the 500 Kill All is a good .500" option. A belted rum to .500". See the link in my sigline. I have the reamers but no dies yet.

Boomy,

Doesn't look like a rebated rim, is that just a visual/pictorial issue?

Rum case so a rebate from the belt

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Rum case so a rebate from the belt

10-4

quote:

I didn't think the Ruger case could be taken up to 50 caliber. What kind of velocity will it give.

Sorry CTF, missed the question.

With the caveat that QL uses an algorithm to generate MV and relating projectile energy and chamber pressure AND that QL has computing issues with straight cases (non-bottleneck cases) here you go.

QL v3.1 results from November 2009...
21" barrel length:
550gr SST/Lehigh Copper FN Monometal bullet – 82.0grs H335 = 2185 fps & 5832 ft-lbs @ 62779 psi
510gr SST/Lehigh Copper FN Monometal bullet – 87.0grs H335 = 2300 fps & 6002 ft-lbs @ 62890 psi
485gr SST/Lehigh Copper FN Monometal bullet – 88.0grs H335 = 2358 fps & 5987 ft-lbs @ 62685 psi
470gr SST/Lehigh Copper HP Monometal bullet – 87.0grs H335 = 2385 fps & 5935 ft-;bs @ 63472 psi

QL v3.6/3.8 results as of today…
21” barrel length:
500gr CEB Safari Solid Brass FN Monometal bullet – 83.6grs H335 = 2277 fps & 5731 ft-lbs @ 62888 psi
450gr CEB Safari Raptor Brass HP Monometal bullet – 86.3grs H335 = 2395 fps & 5930 ft-lbs @ 62793 psi

Probably not the largest, but I've got a 460 Weatherby on an RSM. It's big enough for me right now.