This months Handloader has an article about 45-70 loads for Africa. This just encourages them. We'll never hear the end of it.

Most attractive rifle on your Home Page. What's that cost?

What's wrong with the old Govt. for medium sized beasties? (Wouldn't stalk Dumbo with one)

That is our 600 OK DGR on CZ 550 action. Base price is $4,995.00 with standard four panel checkering and AA fancy English Walnut. That particular rifle has upgraded wood and checkering with ribbons and fleur de lis. So add dollars depending on how fancy you want to go. That is Safarikids rifle and dead buff.

Wouldn't want any checkering. What's that beast weigh?

11 to 15 lbs depending on barrel length. 12-13 lbs gives good balance with a muzzle brake attached. We have built them as light as 9.5 lbs with Kevlar stock and no brake.

I'm thinking 14-15 lbs with a brake would be nice on something that big. What's your lead time for something utilitarian?

currently 10 -12 weeks. 15 lbs. is easy to shoot.

Micifej,

I have a 600 overkill that weighs 13 lbs and 12 oz. and it is no problem shooting 900 grain bullets out to 2330 ft/sec. I have not tested anything hotter yet. The brake does make quite a difference in recoil.

Has Pearce been to Africa more than once? He seems to be squeezing a lot of 45/70 articles out of his experience there. If I do the bushveld again I'd be quite happy to bring my Guide Gun "Mjolnir" but not for buffalo or anything larger.

I always take a Marlin 45-70 with me to Africa. It has many uses but the one I like the best is when the Bakky gets stuck you pound the Marlin into the ground and attach the winch line through the lever. There are handily made that way.-Rob

Long live the 45-70!

I'd have no problem hunting all of Africa's game with a 45/70.

Please post pictures of your African adventure when you get back.

We are all looking forward to seeing them.

It just says he killed two cape buffalo with the rifle. Hmmmmmmm....a little ego bruising going hearing that it does not take a double rifle or 50+caliber mega-thousand custom rifle to kill a buff cleanly? It would be rather depressing to use a $500 rifle to hunt DG successfully for the upper classes here.

Rich
DRSS

You can drive cross country in a new Corolla too!

Mac,

and if you drive the speed limit, ie obey the laws of the land as you must or risk jailtime in Africa; you will arrive much faster and more rested in a new corolla than in RGB's Viper. He will spend more time at gas stations that on the road. No jab RGB, I would love to have one...or perhaps a 599 Maranello (sp?).
For me, the thrill of hunting DG anywhere is the stalk. They are killing buffalo and elephant and rhino every year in Africa with handguns and bows and arrows...so leave off telling me the 45-70 is inadequate. Especially when you read the article and see the dead buffalo. He shot thru the bull, and killed a cow standing behind it.
Look at what Bell did, how many thousands of elephant he killed with that peashooter. Friggin' poachers kill elephant all the time with .308's. The myth that it takes a big rifle to kill things is part of the ego-stroke that comes with knocking down five tons or more of twelve foot tall Elephant. Y'see, how much recoil and how accurately you can shoot a really big bore rifle is part of the competition..."my dog is bigger than your dog" syndrome. If Joe shoots a 375 well, he's down on the totem pole to Fred who shoots a 458WM equally as well, and both are down to Rich who shoots a 505 Gibbs or 577 or 600 OK equally as well. There's a sense of accomplishment in handling something well that most people consider uncontrollable. Watch the videos at Saeed's place.
It's all cool, but it's all a game...it's all a game.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
It just says he killed two cape buffalo with the rifle. Hmmmmmmm....a little ego bruising going hearing that it does not take a double rifle or 50+caliber mega-thousand custom rifle to kill a buff cleanly? It would be rather depressing to use a $500 rifle to hunt DG successfully for the upper classes here.

Rich
DRSS

You can kill a man with a .22 but I certainly don't want to get into a fire fight with one! Same theory goes for the 45-70, a cartridge I love, but the fact that it "CAN" kill a cape Buffalo, doesn't make it a Cape buffalo cartridge! It is a great cartridge for what it was designed to do, kill people, and North American game. For that it is magic, for Africa's dangerous game it is a make do when something better is not available!

You don't need a "MEGATHOUSAND" dollar rifle to take Cape Buffalo cleanly, you just need to chamber the rifle with something better suited to hunting Cape Buffalo than a 45-70. Start with the old 375H&H, and work up with legal chamberings, and you are in the ball park. Leave your pistols, and lever action cowboy guns home for Moose, and other deer, and bear! There is nothing wrong with a 45-70 cartridge, regardless of the type of rifle it is chambered in, but in Africa, on any of the big five, biger than Leopard, it is simply a handicap, that isn't necessary!

I was referring to the quality of the rifle not the caliber.

However, I would have to say that I would prefer something with a little more terminal energy than my .308 if I was being charged by anything larger than an Impala.

quote:

However, I would have to say that I would prefer something with a little more terminal energy than my .308 if I was being charged by anything larger than an Impala.

Two door or four door?

again....another plea for the 45-70 forum...i will moderate

Two door for rapid egress I believe.

Lets see....theory of Irrelativity as measured in Fig Newtons would look like this.

E=1/2 M(VxV) No Superscript here?

So...

Corolla = 1/2 (2700)lbs X (44x44) fps (ramming speed) = 2,613,600

2-Bore = 1/2 (.500) lbs X (1500x1500) fps = 562,500

Obviously the Corolla is a more powerful weapon!

Sign here for the test pilot sign up sheet.

X__________________________________________

Next class we'll compare sectional density of Corolla VS Bronze Solids.

The 45-70 is the best lethal gun ever invented. Load one into a 3" deck gun and pull the cord and Bang, one dead rhino, Cape Buffalo, Elephant, Blue Whale, Whatever.....

John
the lighter side of the 45-70 debate.

I was in the bush with my .45-70 (single shot) and saw these tracks. Not sure what they are but thought I might have needed more gun!

Heck, I knocked this one down with my breath.

Killing Baby Elephants with your breath?!?!?!

Try some Listerine!

What do you do when the Buff takes exception to being whacked with a 45-70? Get into the Impala?

NO! I get into the Corolla and chase the Impala!

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
I was in the bush with my .45-70 (single shot) and saw these tracks. Not sure what they are but thought I might have needed more gun!

Looks to me like someone placed a flush toilet there before realizing that you have to connect it up.

Really improtant to all. ammunition
CK THIS OUT , AMMINUNITION BEING REGULATED BY OSHA ,DEPT OF LABOR

Call all Gov officials

U.S. Department of Labor, Room N-2625 200 Constitution Ave., N.W. Washington, DC 20210

Re.: Docket No. OSHA-2007-0032 (Explosives—Proposed Rule)

Dear Sir or Madam:

I am writing in strong opposition to OSHA’s proposed rules on “explosives,†which go far beyond regulating true explosives. These proposed rules would impose severe restrictions on the transportation and storage of small arms ammunition—both complete cartridges and handloading components such as black and smokeless powder, primers, and percussion caps. These restrictions go far beyond existing transportation and fire protection regulations.

As a person who uses ammunition and components, I am very concerned that these regulations will have a serious effect on my ability to obtain these products. OSHA’s proposed rules would impose restrictions that very few gun stores, sporting goods stores, or ammunition dealers could comply with. (Prohibiting firearms in stores that sell ammunition, for example, is absurd—but would be required under the proposed rule.)

The proposed transportation regulations would also affect shooters’ ability to buy these components by mail or online, because shipping companies would also have great difficulty complying with the proposed rules.

There is absolutely no evidence of any new safety hazard from storage or transportation of small arms ammunition or components that would justify these new rules. I also understand that organizations with expertise in this field, such as the National Rifle Association, National Shooting Sports Foundation, and Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Association, will be submitting detailed comments on this issue. I hope OSHA will listen to these organizations’ comments as the agency develops a final rule on this issue.

Sincerely,

i just picked up the magazine...i especialy liked his texas heart shot on the buff and how he took off the top of the heart and ended up in the brisket. that is almost lenghwise penetration

if you took every Bison killed with BP 45-70's and placed the hides nose to tail, they would cross the country seven times, plus. A cape buff is not any harder to kill, just harder to stop on a charge. Hunting ain't about being charged, it's about killing things.

QUESTION: for those of you who have killed more than one cape buffalo, how many times were you charged VS one shot kills and the buff never saw you?

Rich
DRSS

If you could shoot buffalo at 150-200 yards and never had to follow up a wounded animal, there'd never be a reason to use anything heavier than a .308.

Of course, in the real world ...

but, nowhere in the rules do you have a minimum or maximum distance to shoot anything. The whole concept of the DG scam in Africa is that you have to stalk close enough to see the whites of their eyes and try and goad them into a confrontation. If clients got to shoot cape buff at longer distances there would be no way to charge outlandish fees for the privilege. The same guy who woofs about shooting a cape buffalo at feet, in full charge, tells you about the awesome one-shot kills on other big game at over 200 yds. DG is fluffed up because of the perceived danger. It would interesting to see how many million head of cape buff were shot with the 303Brit and 8x57 by locals prior to WWII. They shot them every day to feed their native workers. The 9,3x62 was designed to give them a little margin. It's a 35 Whelen on steroids for gosh' sake! Just another way of showing the world how much money you have, nothing more.

Rich
DRSS
never paid anybody a dime to take me hunting...I take myself and shoot all of my own game.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
but, nowhere in the rules do you have a minimum or maximum distance to shoot anything. The whole concept of the DG scam in Africa is that you have to stalk close enough to see the whites of their eyes and try and goad them into a confrontation. If clients got to shoot cape buff at longer distances there would be no way to charge outlandish fees for the privilege. The same guy who woofs about shooting a cape buffalo at feet, in full charge, tells you about the awesome one-shot kills on other big game at over 200 yds. DG is fluffed up because of the perceived danger. It would interesting to see how many million head of cape buff were shot with the 303Brit and 8x57 by locals prior to WWII. They shot them every day to feed their native workers. The 9,3x62 was designed to give them a little margin. It's a 35 Whelen on steroids for gosh' sake! Just another way of showing the world how much money you have, nothing more.

Rich
DRSS
never paid anybody a dime to take me hunting...I take myself and shoot all of my own game.

ISS, your sig line tells it all! If that is true, you've never hunted cape buffalo at all, which didn't surprise me, by the way.


You're correct! The legal rules do not say what distance you have to shoot a cape buffalo, but there is certainly a proper distance to shoot any dangerous game that requires follow-up, by law! You are right, and even someone who has never shot a cape buffalo in his life can lay on his belly, and snipe a buffalo from 200 yds, and hope he goes down, and doesn't get into the weeds, where someone has to risk his life sorting him out. With your 45-70,which, by the way, is illegal for cape Buffalo, and requires a special permit to use for them,the farther you are away, the more likely you are to wound the bull, and when you wound the bull, YOU are not obligated to go in after him, but the Tracker, and the PH is! Is it any wounder, to you, that the PH is going to frown on your antics with a cartridge that is not up to the task?

PHs roll their eyes when two things happen on the arrival of a client hunter. #1 is a marginal chambering in his rifle, and #2 when he pulls out a rifle that is too big for the game hunted. #1 is because he sees himself haveing to go into the thick with a wounded, and pissed animal that is likely to kill him, and #2 is because the client most likely cannot shoot the heavy recoiling rifle well enough to place his shots properly, and the same result as with #1.

You may do as it suits you, but lets not pretend that your choice is from anything like experience when it comes to African game, ingeneral, and dangerous African game in particular! An American Bison, is not a Cape Bufflao, and placed in a pen together, the cape would kill the bison, or any other bivine for that matter, in five minutes if a dispute resulted! I agree that hundreds of cape buffalo have been killed with a 303, and 8mms for meat, and the number I'd really like to see is the number of wouded Buffalo, shot, wounded, and not followed up, or the number of dead farmers killed in the process, if they did follow-up. Most wild game killed for meat was either cows, or young calves, and were targets taken only when the shot was to be perfect. The man shooting large Bulls, of any age, has to get close, because every day wasted following up a wounded game animal is time you could be hunting something else, and those days cost money, and the use of a PH is mandated by law, so you have no choice, but to pay, or you will not play. Like you I've never paid anyone to take me hunting in North America either, because it is not required by law. But for the logistics of a camp in the bush, I wouldn't pay to hunt Africa either, if the law didn't mandate it!

In the final anlysis, I believe we owe the animals we hunt, enough respect, to give them the quickest, and easiest death we can. With that said my use of REAL rifles to hunt Cape Buffalo, has nothing to do with proveing my financial status to anyone, but simply because it is the ethical thing to do, IMO!

Agree or disagree, no responce is needed!............BYE!

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Most attractive rifle on your Home Page. What's that cost?

What's wrong with the old Govt. for medium sized beasties? (Wouldn't stalk Dumbo with one)

What is the cheapest a guy can get in 600ok with a wood stock??

noooo....
now that someone posted a 38-55 in big bores, the 45/70 looks like a weatherby!!

Just because you CAN kill a buff with it DO NOT
make it a Cape Buffalo rifle. Good Grief



Jeff, come on a bloody Weatherby? some clown will use that quote.

Gene,
I'll say this.. the 38-55 will kill better than some pellet rifles I have owned!!