The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores (what am i thinking) introducing the 577 AccRelGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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(just when you think its safe to come to AR) Working off Rob's 600 OK, and Boomie's suggestion for a shortie, I am in the process of designing the 577 AccRel - I have used no previous carts as the basis for this, so hollar if its too close to anything else. Please note, if too close to other things, I reserve the right to 86 the concept SINGLE STACK Case length - 2.65 OAL - 3.35 neck length- .585 neck width - .615 Shoulder .673 Shoulder angle 40! deg Length to shoulder .2.038 base dia .688 rim dia .635 rim thickness .060 This may be too thick I know its rebated .. Goal is to make 2100 with 750gr bullets. Or there abouts estimated case capacity? in the 170gr range .. The 550 magnum can get a 700gr at 2400fps at about 155gr capacity Since its a single stack, the shoulder angle shouldn't impact the feeding much. the .635 rim means it CAN, though perhaps not advised, be put into nearly any action with a .700 or greater rim. goodness, it will be a little brute.. no doubt it could be loaded hotter .. and we'll see... (should have taken a nap instead) Thoughts, Comments? Anyone want to buy dies? btw, once it clears ATF paperwork, if it goes that far, i'll also order chamber reamer, die reamer, and headspace guage ... opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | ||
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What case? If using the trex brass you could do a minimal taper and do a 600 and 577 and just add pilot reamer and use the same headspace gauges. Just reread the post. I guess u r using the OK brass. In that "case" why not a 600 semi overkill short? Like the 550 express? Necked to 577 might just take off the belt but that would be close to the nyati. I like the idea of a short 600 just right kill. 600 Express? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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I will donate a 416Ruger Alaskan for the rebarrel. I will need the gun back later though in 577AR. You can keep the ruger barrel WOODY Everyone is allowed an opinion, even if its wrong. | |||
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Me too! Just take 1/2" out of the body of the 3" OK case and don't neck it down. Make it a 2.5" Overkill and build them on Rugers like the full lenght is built on CZs. 600AR! aka 2.5" Overkill | |||
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An 8 lb stainless 20" barreled 600 nitro powered ruger sounds nice to me as a great back up gun. As in it will back you up  I think a stainless ruger Alaskan is a great donor rifle for this. Get a custom floor plate to fit two down. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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thanks for the feedback! I think it could work .. working with some others, behind the scenes, to see what we can do with it.. Let's keep it at 577 for now, gents .. Ya'll can do a 600 .. it numbs me just to think about it ... though a 600 AccRel would easily beat the 600NE loads, in a bolt gun. (no,jeffe, no 600!) it would only have about .021 TOTAL headspace .. without a belt.. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Guys, here is another thought. I have been going back and forth over a 585 AHR. I can't really say why but I would rather have a 585 than a 600 OK. However, Wayne is running out of brass and, if the brass goes away, so does the cartridge. The brass order requires a minimum of 2,000 pieces. Maybe we should all throw some money into a pot, buy some brass and give it Wayne so he can continue with the 585. A 577 in a short action is a neat concept but the recoil will be intolerable. I say why reinvent the wheel to save a half an inch of bolt throw? Just food for thought. Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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Jeffe One could just trim the Nyati neck back to .42" long to have a short neck Nyati to make a 2.65" case without a belt and less rebate. Making a shorter Trex sounds better to me or a 600 express. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Jeffe, I ran a draft .585 B&M for Michael in QuickDESIGN last year to I used QD’s resizing tools to prototype your .577 AR and then imported the data into QL. Here’s some of the QL data that I came up with using a 20” barrel (short cannon cartridge needs a short barrel to go with it… LOL): .585 750gr CEB BBW #13 Brass FN Solid - Max Overflow Case Capacity: 192.33grs H2O - Max Usable Case Capacity: 140.951grs H2O (with designated bullet) - Powder Weight Charge: 132.0grs IMR 3031 - Case Fill: 108.7% - Propellant Burnt: 100.0% - Muzzle Velocity: 2356 fps - Projectile Energy: 9258 ft-lbs - Pressure (Pmax): 62913 psi .585 700gr CEB BBW #13 Brass HP NonCon - Max Overflow Case Capacity: 192.33grs H2O - Max Usable Case Capacity: 140.951grs H2O (with designated bullet) - Powder Weight Charge: 132.0grs IMR 3031 - Case Fill: 108.7% - Propellant Burnt: 100.0% - Muzzle Velocity: 2402 fps - Projectile Energy: 8984 ft-lbs - Pressure (Pmax): 58554 psi Certainly looks like you’ve hit your goals. Jim  "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Jamison and Hornber will make whatever brass we like. EVENTUALLY, has been my expereince. Dave, remember, the 550 express goes in a standard length action, single stack.. an oz less of action metal isn't going to make recoil any worse. But, "saving" that 1/2 inch meens a $100 mauser, or $400 ruger.. or $600 winchester can do it. Boomie - NO .. while i might make the cases from the nyati, i wouldn't shorten the neck only .. and the nyati has, well, some execution of design issues. Jim - thanks.. my quickload is on my home PC, so i couldn't model it today.. just had the concept, and went with excel and visio. Can you run what it might do with say, 105gr of h335 and a 750 gr woodleigh? Looking for 50Kpsi (which you can specifiy as well), and 2050 fps. as pressure DOES increase felt recoil. wow.. 192 is HUGE.. was thinking high 170s, might clip 180gr of h20 thanks jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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But Jeff you can buy a brand new CZ .416 magnum length action from Brownells for only $850 bucks. Again, I say why reinvent the wheel. Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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Using nyati brass making some niche maybe even shorter say 2.5" for 750 @ 2,150 and feed well in more actions perhaps. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Dave, some guys are stuck on it the costs .. I like standard actions, and have seriously proven that magnum length actions aren't required Boomie.. the bullets are usually .800 from the nose. making it 2.5 means they have RUNNING start at the front of the mag to pound into the case. 2.5 is right out, but i will measure the cannalure and verify length .. the OAL is 3.35, period.. it has to be 2.81 to fit in a 308 action .. NO! opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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47 .308 magnuma .. what wheel is there? why force it to fit ONLY in a long long action?  opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Add .110" to all the width dimensions to the 470 AR and you would get the 577 AR 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Since the .585 AHR is based off of the .600 OK why no just try and order .600 OK basic non-headstamped brass? With a forming die you could have all the cases you wanted and might not need a special brass run. The same run of brass could be used for the .577 AR also. | |||
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Jeffe…Here you go: .585 750gr Woodleigh FMJ 4 with H335 Propellant: - Powder Weight Charge: 119.0grs - Case Fill: 78.30% - Propellant Burnt: 99.27% - Muzzle Velocity: 2051 fps - Projectile Energy: 7005 ft-lbs - Pressure (Pmax): 41202 psi And .585 750gr Woodleigh SN Weldcore 3 with H335 Propellant: - Powder Weight Charge: 120.5grs - Case Fill: 77.30% - Propellant Burnt: 99.31% - Muzzle Velocity: 2053 fps - Projectile Energy: 7019 ft-lbs - Pressure (Pmax): 40780 psi [color:red]Edit Added: I just remembered to add, my QD/QL data is based on a non-belted case and is Rob's case belted or belt-less? Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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just modeled in quickload .. 23" barrel, woodie 750gr, .. since the 585nyati 2.8 is 185gr, i set this at 175 gr h20 ... 40K makes 2075 -- target aquired 46k - 2156 -- laser guided! 7700ft-lb 10.75lb gun - 97.6ft-lb reocil, 24 fps 12# gun, 87.5ft-lb recoil, 21.65 fpd ... that's kinda of mild for an ultra big bore! in comparison, a 577 trex, at 2176, would be 10 102.14 at 24.72 12# 91.51, 22.15 roughly 5% more recoil for the same effect, due largely to powder charge just for safarikid.. 6.5#gun, 165ft-lb at 40fps and for fun 9.5#gun, 113 at 27.64 YIKES opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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viper, the forming for the 577NE, most 577s/585s is the same basic die set .. but "nyati basic" would work.. at 45kpsi, it might not even get sticky! opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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The only .585 nyati brass worth a damn is the Horneber stuff I had made many years ago. I still have about 300 cases from that run.-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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The .600 ok brass is better designed for high pressure than any Nyati brass out there. Consider turning off the belt if you want a belt less case.-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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Sounds good to me, willing to be the second to shoot it. Like all of the rest of the AR stable. Keith IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!! ------------------------------------ We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club | |||
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Yepper, Keith.. you will be right there with me! opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Here are three wildcats I experimented with back in the early '70's:  On the left, the .450 C&W Magnum, a rimmed version of the .450 Watts, formed from .375 H&H Flanged Magnum brass and designed for use in double rifles and single shots. It easily duplicated factory .450 3 1/4" Nitro Express and .458 Winchester Magnum performance at lower pressure. It was tested in a Ruger No. 1 actioned rifle and subsequently in a Krieghoff Teck double rifle. In the middle, the .505 SRE (Short Range Express), which used a .460 Weatherby case shortened to 2.500" and necked appropriately. It propells a 570 grain bullet at 2150 fps. using 90 grains of IMR 4064. It was tested in the Model 1917 Enfield in the background of the photo and made three trips to Africa. On the right, the .577 VSRE (Very Short Range Express), which uses a .577 NE case shortened to 2.500" and machined to provide a .583" rebated rim. It propels a 750 grain bullet at 2050 fps, using 135 grains of IMR 4895. The test bed is a post-64 Model 70 altered to single stack magazine and stocked with a McMillan stock, weighing in at 13 pounds. | |||
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thanks XAUSA ... at least i know i can get here i want to with the case! opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Your an evil man Jeff, till now i owned the biggest AccRel you could get, now I'm going to have to build another one when you get this sorted  !Paz 458AR & 500AR owner (yes it is done  )12GFH in the pipeline(but not a real one, just a "mini one"!! The single shot on fine and beautiful lines built by a master craftsman is indeed a gentleman's piece... Colonel Townsend Whelen | |||
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A few questions. Does the single stack for the 550 Express need just a follower in the Ruger or a new box like a Weatherby? How many could fit in it with a standard floorplate? Would this be the same for the 577AR WOODY Everyone is allowed an opinion, even if its wrong. | |||
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I used a Weatherby single stack magazine with my .577 VSRE. | |||
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Jeffe, I think it should be a 600ExpressSuperShort! Sasquatch We Band of Bubbas N.R.A Life Member TDR Cummins Power All The Way Certified member of the Whompers Club | |||
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Well, jeffe is doning HIS idea. No one is stopping YOU from dong yours.. Have fun. Keith IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!! ------------------------------------ We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club | |||
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does anyone know who, other than pacnor, makes a .585 barrel? I liek pacnor, just would like to see some choices opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Krieger | |||
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Well Jeff - other options are: Krieger and Lothar Walther (at least in Europe they offer 585 barrels) | |||
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http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/...ces-c1246-wp3390.htm Was just posting that Here is the link to all bores 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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650 grain Woodleigh softs @ 1800 in a 8.5 Lb gun should be pretty shootable plinkers and pig poppers with the same recoil as the 458 Lott. Then load 750s at 2,200 for fun or DG 8.5 lb gun 650 @ 1,800 80 lbs recoil 8.5 lb gun 750 @ 2,200 160 lbs of recoil for double your pleasure 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Jeffe in Australia the biggest we can get is the Lothar Walther in .585, they are pretty good barrels regards S&F | |||
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Classic Barrel Works lists .585 barrels too, could probably order whatever twist you wanted. http://www.cutrifle.com/ | |||
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I think it a good idea, Jeff. There's always room in the safe for one more.. Boomie, we can do a short version for M-70 short actions and call it the 600 Underkill  "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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I doubt it would be "Underkill" I think "express" is a good name but Rob should have input in the name since he is the originator of the whole enchilada. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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True but its a Hobbit kinda name, befitting a shorty. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores (what am i thinking) introducing the 577 AccRel
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