Since the safety question generated some heated off topic comments decided to possibly channel it into another thread. Would like to know what you guys do while hunting big game in the 50 states while NOT sitting on a stand.

My choice is to hunt without a round in the chamber unless on final approach or in some serious looking thick cover while in brownie country. Even my double rifles are carried unloaded. An exception would be when we revisit a moose or deer kill then I'll chamber around and carry the rifle in front of me ready to put into action.

I will add that in almost every area we hunt we have to examine moose very carefully to make sure they are legal. And even if they are legal they get a close look to make sure they are the trophy we want. For you folks who carry and need the first shot as soon as possible, are you hunting big game where there are no minimum standards for shooting such as brow tine counts, etc?

Gun is worthless unless it is loaded.

In our area you'd never (well unlikely anyway) take an elk without a round in the chamber.

But then I carry a cocked and locked 1911..so what do I know

Always.

I keep a round in the chamber for the same reason I keep gas in my car's gas tank....you might need it very quickly.

Except when I am riding in a vehicle, I am locked and loaded!

quote:

Gun is worthless unless it is loaded.

IMO the other thread which you started and didn't like the direction of gave pretty muchthe sentiments of the posters here. what you apparently didn't like was their reaction to your comment that you wouldn't hunt with anybody that handled their gun/chamber/safety situation any differently than you, and what is apparently the MINORITY group of hunters.

if you didn't like that thread, after two pages of responses what do you hope to accomplish here? why not create a poll???that would be telling more I think than anything. do it one or more of the hunting forums versus big bore,youll capture a better sampling.

I'm going to bet it is a grossly lopsided result. this was the first I'd ever heard of hunting that way.

Red

I hunt with a round in in the chamber(s), safety on.
With my new Mauser M03 a round in the chamber with the gun on safe is a non issue.

quote:

Originally posted by RDB:
Gun is worthless unless it is loaded.

In our area you'd never (well unlikely anyway) take an elk without a round in the chamber.

But then I carry a cocked and locked 1911..so what do I know

Yes and Yes! Well put RDB
I carry a round in the pipe on my rifle with the safety engaged, however I treat it like a loaded weapon. This is the same way I've taught my son to handle firearms, this is the way my dad taught my brothers and I. We are pretty safe, the only thing that gets shot around our camp is Deer and Elk!

quote:

what you apparently didn't like was their reaction to your comment that you wouldn't hunt with anybody that handled their gun/chamber/safety situation any differently than you, and what is apparently the MINORITY group of hunters.

Red

Don't tell me what I liked or didnt like, you are not my wife. Stick to the topic.

Randy, my definition of gun safety is pointing the rifle in a safe direction 100% of the time. If you or someone else cannot hunt or travel on foot with a rifle under these conditions (100% not 99% or less), then never chamber a round till your ready to shoot. For 42 years I've hunted with a round in the chamber and many times, not just a few, I would have never had the oportunity to tag out if I had to chamber a round whether stand hunting, stalking or still hunting.

I carry my rifle exactly as my PH/guide requests.

I never have a round in the chamber if the gun is in a scabbard on a horse or any motorized transportation.

If the walking is treacherous the bolt is open...

Other than that the chamber is loaded and the safety is on!

I never hunt with a round in the chamber. A safety is a mechanical device and can fail. Safety is much more important them filling a tag. When hunting in groups, it always seems to be the yaahoo with the loaded chamber that sweeps me with his muzzle, so I no longer hunt with guys who insist on carrying a round in the chamber. It's the same reason why birdhunters kill more of their own each year. With the federal 3 round magazine limit for waterfowl hunting all the bird hunter walk around with a round in the chamber, and IMO that's why they have a disporporpornate number of deaths each year.

In Africa, were there are things that could eat me, I'd do what ever my PH instructed me to do.

I have always hunted with a loaded chamber.

Joe A.

I guess some times I just don't understand the questions. I look at hunting as, really "hunting". I seldom shoot but I want to be able to shoot (stop or kill) at a moment's notice.

Any firearm is just a club until you add ammo in the chamber. Doesn't matter if it is a SAA, a Glock, a DR, a Mauser or an M4.

If I am hunting, man or beast, and take a firearm, I chamber a round the moment I start "hunting" . When I am "not hunting" I unload the firearm.

Most accidents happen when you aren't hunting. Generally that is loading or unloading, crossing a fence or other obstructions, in a car (animal hunting anyway) or cleaning a weapon.

I expect my partners to be able to roll on the ground, jump tall buildings, run with the wind (or out of wind) and in general do anything they are physically capable of with a fully loaded firearm, round chambered, and do it all safely. If you can't, nothing to think about, simply unload the thing.

Same safety rules apply at a IPCS/IDPA match as a LE qual course, searching a house, serving a warrent, or hunting ducks with your buddies.

"Gun is always loaded (mine really are) and don't point a gun at anything you are not willing to destroy. Finger off the trigger till you are ready to shoot."

For me at least if my rifle goes to my shoulder the safety come off as the gun goes up. With a 1911 between position 2 and 3 (1 thru 4) on the presentation the mechanical safety is snapped off.

Safety off, doesn't mean the gun is fired or will be fired...just means it can be fired. Finger may go on the trigger and my MIND makes the final decision if the gun will go off, not the safety, not my trigger finger...but my MIND.

I have shot with and hunted (animals and humans) with all sorts of people at all levels of firearms skills. My rule is basic. "Don't point a gun at me." I have to assume you want to shoot me if you do. Not the best way to make life long friends.

Firearms are just simple tools. Doesn't take a lot to master how they work. But there are no "overs" once you pop the primer. No 2nd chances.

For many these days a firearm is the only place that they are forced to take personal responsibility for their own actions.

If you are worried about that then I have no problem with YOU not chambering a round in YOUR weapons. But then I don't want you on my side of the fight, backing me up, or in my army either

Not sure I want you standing behind me for any reason though because if you don't trust you with a loaded gun...why would I?

If a PH or Guide (for DG) asked me to hunt with an empty gun, I'd find another PH and might even suggest photo safaris or baby sitter as a change in their occupation.

what strikes me as odd about this thread is why on earth would you remove a remington saftey, and the comparison between revolvers and rifles safteys, would you unload the revolver untill you need it, i generaly carry chambered up but there is a time and place for an empty chamber, usually not hard to figure out. all the fooling around loading and unloadin because you have no saftey option would really make me nervous.
this thread s not about good gun handling and saftey its about somebodys quirky ideas.strange in public means really strange at home

Where is Busheler when we need him?

If you don't have a full magazine and a round in the chamber; you're not hunting, you're just out looking around.

You have to have a loaded firearm to be hunting.

You can ask this a hundred times, and the answer will still be: 99% of the posters disagree with you.
Heck, Roseanne Barr has been married twice. That means at least two guys who were sober at the time thought she was a hottie.

Rich
DRSS

For me this is somewhat situational if I'm closing in on a stalk and I think I'm close to shooting I'll chamber a round. Or this spring I went into some thick stuff with my partner after a wounded bear that a first timer had wounded - I had one in the chamber.

Otherwise I usually find there is time to chamber a round.

quote:

Originally posted by anukpuk:
what strikes me as odd about this thread is why on earth would you remove a remington saftey, and the comparison between revolvers and rifles safteys, would you unload the revolver untill you need it, i generaly carry chambered up but there is a time and place for an empty chamber, usually not hard to figure out. all the fooling around loading and unloadin because you have no saftey option would really make me nervous.
this thread s not about good gun handling and saftey its about somebodys quirky ideas.strange in public means really strange at home

While hunting, gun is always loaded, safety on, finger off the triggers, muzzles pointed in a safe direction.

Gun is always unloaded when raising/lowering from an elevated stand.

This can be done silently from a double and those "flanged" cartridges drop right in and roll right out.

Don't even have to take the gloves off on those cold days.

Dear Snowwolfe:

You might want to ask Phil Shoemaker this question.

I carry a round in the chamber at all times.

Nevertheless, I've had loaded shotguns pointed at me a number of times by one particular hunting partner. That is not an issue any longer, because of his immobility presently, but it still incensed me.

To me, its where the rifle is pointed, not if it is loaded, but Mr. Shoemaker will probably disagree.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Laws in the states where I hunt, one is not allowed to have a loaded weapon in the car unless you have a permit to do so. I have one, but I dont have a loaded hunting rifle in my truck...I have a loaded .45

Now once I get to my hunting grounds and I start my journey into the wilderness, the rounds go in the rifle and one is put in the chamber with the safety on.

I used to no load my rifle till i got to where I was going to be hunting. But that changed when a 12 point 150" class whitetail jumped up in front of me 35 yards away and stared at me while I struggled to chamber a round. As soon as the bolt locked down he was off and running at Mach 17. Never again will I be in the wilderness during hunting season without a loaded weapon. Even more so now that I will be hunting in prime bear country.

Nothing really to add to this, an unloaded gun is a club and totally useless.

I do not hunt with folks that do not load their guns until they see game, becuase from my limited experience, by that time it is done to late to load the sumbich. JMO.

Normally as soon as I head into the bush I chamber a round. I hunt alone and usually not anywhere near others. I unload when appoaching camp or the truck. We have to count tines/points here so speed is not realy a concern not to mention I generaly have a good look at anything I'm thinking about shooting. Still like a round it it though.

I always carry a loaded rifle
And I aways know where the gun is pointed
safty is on until I get to where I'll be hunting

I was taught to treat every firearm as if they were loaded and to never point them at anything I wasn’t going to kill…

I always “hunt” with a round in the chamber and my safety on otherwise it is unloaded…

Loaded or not I am 100% conscious all of the time as to what direction my muzzle is pointed…

With that being said I’ve hunted with people that are dangerous either way…

I’ve been scoped though loaded rifles…

I’ve been “waived” with unloaded rifles and when I say “watch where your pointing that” they respond “don’t worry it’s unloaded”…

Both situations are why I prefer to hunt alone…

Lots of people seem to think having an empty chamber is because of a desire to point the gun at people, be careless, etc. I didn't read that anywhere.

So....with EQUAL gun handling skills and safety considerations, is it safer to have the chamber empty?

Will it really slow that snap shot if you've practiced chambering as you mount the gun? If you've in open terrain, hunting non-dangerous game, glassing, etc, does the round in the chamber offer ANY real advantage? I'm asking seriously. When I hunt I usually spend 10 hours glassing (at least!) for every hour stalking, and having a round chambered as the gun sits on the ground beside me offers no benefit. My opinion is as stated above, a safety is a mechanical device, I could slip or trip, a branch could knock if off (if it happened to Taylor it can happen to you), etc.

It is clear from the responses most guys put one in, but I'd find a civil discussion of WHY and the pros/cons (beyond 'an unloaded gun is a club', etc, when I can load it as quickly as I can mount it) to be interesting and hopefully educational.

Bob

Randy,

I also would or do hunt with a round chambered. Sure the safety is on but to me more importantly I keep the thing pointed in a safe direction. I believe the only one whos health is in danger given the way I handle my firearm is myself, meaning the muzzle blast to my ears if an accidental discharge were to occur. I wouldn't rule out such an occurence since "Stuff does happen," but so far so good.

As the others have mentioned, I see little difference between upland bird hunting with a loaded firearm, duck hunting with a loaded firearm or big game hunting with,......If I hadn't mentioned it to you before I use a Red Label for fowl and you and I would agree theres just no way one could load and fire in a reasonable amount of time.

quote:

Originally posted by Omnivorous_Bob:
It is clear from the responses most guys put one in, but I'd find a civil discussion of WHY and the pros/cons (beyond 'an unloaded gun is a club', etc, when I can load it as quickly as I can mount it) to be interesting and hopefully educational.

Bob

Hi Bob,

The "why?" for me is because I do not believe anyone elses health is at risk because of my safe gun direction pointing.

I handle my shotgun in the same manner I handle a rifle or handgun. the muzzle is just never pointed at or near a person. I've never had a circumstance where I didn't have plenty of time to load a rifle for a shot at a moose or bear but there have been deer I've taken, (and some nice ones at that,) because I had a round chambered.

It would be unreasonable to expect to be even modestly successful on pheasants with a flushing dog or waterfowl with any kind of dog handling an unloaded firearm.

Having had to investigate gun accidents, the first thing you usually hear from the one handling the gun was "I didn't know that it was loaded!" If you always carry a loaded gun, then there isn't any doubt in your mind. It is loaded and you know it. When you mix the two, sometimes loaded and sometimes unloaded is when the confusion can arise.

465H&H

Randy,

If by myself - I've got one in chamber, safety on and finger off trigger. If following another hunter - chamber is empty.

round in the chamber, safety on. unload chamber to climb hills or obstacles where it's easy to loose balance and drop the rifle

quote:

Originally posted by Omnivorous_Bob:
Lots of people seem to think having an empty chamber is because of a desire to point the gun at people, be careless, etc. I didn't read that anywhere.

So....with EQUAL gun handling skills and safety considerations, is it safer to have the chamber empty?

Will it really slow that snap shot if you've practiced chambering as you mount the gun? If you've in open terrain, hunting non-dangerous game, glassing, etc, does the round in the chamber offer ANY real advantage? I'm asking seriously. When I hunt I usually spend 10 hours glassing (at least!) for every hour stalking, and having a round chambered as the gun sits on the ground beside me offers no benefit. My opinion is as stated above, a safety is a mechanical device, I could slip or trip, a branch could knock if off (if it happened to Taylor it can happen to you), etc.

It is clear from the responses most guys put one in, but I'd find a civil discussion of WHY and the pros/cons (beyond 'an unloaded gun is a club', etc, when I can load it as quickly as I can mount it) to be interesting and hopefully educational.

Bob

Some good points Bob. I am truly in the minority here.
I practice often at the range and most of the practice is bringing an empty rifle to my shoulder while chambering a round to get off the shot. While in the field my empty gun is treated like it is loaded and always pointed in a safe direction.

I just never had a circumstance where there was not time to chamber a round and take the shot and this includes lots of deer hunting. We almost always hunt in pairs and I do not want to follow my partner or have him follow me up a slippery rocky or snow encrusted trail with a round in the chamber. About 20 years ago personally witnessed a guy walking in back of another and he hit a small rock with his toe and tumbled forward and his rifle hit the ground and went off. Scared the shit out of everyone to say the least. And the trail was one we had walked many times before. It was an accident and they can happen to anyone. My theory is if the chamber is empty it will not happen to me.
Researched a couple of online Hunter education classes and the few found said carry the rifle unloaded until ready to fire.

No matter which way you go, I do agree you have to be consistent. Cause if you are not you will screw up at the wrong time.

I generally don't carry with a round in the chamber until it's time to kill something.

The reason I choose to do this is because the chance that I will drop the rifle, fall badly, or have some other sort of accident that results in an accidental discharge is infinitely higher with a round in the chamber than with no round in the chamber. Basically I am reducing the probability that I will get killed.

Now, when hunting something that can kill me (or hunting in an area with critters that can kill me), I will tilt the odds in my favor and carry hot, as the odds of bumping into something pissed off and close seem higher than the odds of having an accident that results in an AD.

Bottom line is that I am going to maximize the odds that I walk out of the woods under my won power, because I have kids, a wife and employees that rely on my for their livelihoods. No game animal is worth losing my life over.

If I miss a good buck because of the .545798 seconds it takes me to load a round into the chamber, I can live with it. On the other hand, if the .545798 seconds causes me to miss the buck, I probably would have missed it anyway.

Looking at this from another angle, if a person is not capable of chambering a round while in the act of bringing his rifle to shoulder, is that someone who should be handling a firearm? Chambering a round while mounting the rifle seems a fairly basic skill to me.

another "loaded for bear" here--

Any firearm is ALWAYS loaded --

until proven otherwise--

at least that is what I was taught (and teach)

CAS II,

following your logic; the rifle should be carried completely empty and the ammunition in your pants pocket. Way safer. Better yet, you should only carry one round in your pocket. It will make you focus more on only taking good shots. I have personally seen a number of Elk and Deer fly away hearing the sound of the safety being moved off.

As far as that .5xxxxxxx seconds to shoulder a rifle and chamber a round at the same time...
Stick a fired case in the chamber and let me know which is faster, putting that rifle to your shoulder and safety off Bang! Or, chambering a dummy round, while you are shouldering the rifle, safety off Bang! You have a sequence that requires more separate movements and is not as instinctive. I have feeding check dummies, and my IPSC timer says I am well over a second faster with a round in the chamber.

You gentlemen who choose to carry empty chambers, God help you if you have a surprise encounter with a bear, etc on a trail.

The standard adhered to by hunters in Africa is out of the vehicle, load the magazine and chamber a round, safety on, walk out. The muzzles are generally carried forward, and we have yet to read here or elsewhere of someone accidentally being shot.

Rich
DRSS

Rich,

Nice try, but you are making a ridiculous argument. A rifle with no round in the chamber CAN'T fire. A round in the magazine is not in the chamber. Arguing otherwise is just idiocy.

I'm sorry that you suffer some affliction that prevents you from chambering a round as you shoulder your rifle. I suffer no affliction, and have no problem performing such a simple task. Perhaps you should practice a little more? It sounds as if you could use it.

I too have seen animals spook at the sound of a safety. I can live with that. Are you saying that you hunt with a hot chamber and no safety? It seems that following your logic you should not use the safety since you ALWAYS have your muzzle pointed safely and the mere sound of a safety disengaging causes game animals to head for cover. If you always carry safely, why the need for a safety?

You must have missed the part where I said I do carry hit if there are critters around that could kill me. Would you like me to re-post that part?

So just so we are clear, your basic argument is that a rifle with a round in the chamber is just as safe a as a rifle with no round in the chamber? Further, you argue that you don't have the ability to chamber a round as you shoulder your rifle, and as such assuming the additional risk of hunting with a hot chamber is acceptable because you might miss a game animal?

Just out of curiosity, how many hunters have ever been killed by an accidental discharge by a firearm with NO round in the chamber? Since the first firearm was ever made, I'm guessing it is about ZERO. The contrary is not true.

You want to hunt hot, knock yourself out. You won't ever hunt with me. I sincerely hope you never have an accident to change your view.

You seem to be willing to accept the additional risk of AD because of the chance that you might lose a game animal. I am not willing to accept that additional risk as there will always be another buck to be killed.

The way I've always taught gun safety--to my sons and others--is simply that when the action on a firearm is closed, the gun is loaded and must be treated that way. Doesn't matter if you KNOW the gun is unloaded--if it is in "fireable" condition, it's loaded.

So, if the action on a shotgun is forward, it's loaded; on a double, if the gun is closed, it's loaded. If the bolt is closed on a rifle, it loaded--and so on and so on.

Given that way of thinking, there's no reason not to hunt with a round in the chamber and the safety on.

Based on my 2 safrais in Africa, a serious amount of expensive game would not be killed, or worse yet, only wounded, if the hunter were to wait until the animal was spotted to chamber a round. In fact, the first words from my PHs on dismounting the hunting car was always, "Put a round in the chamber and put on the safety."

Here in Georgia the deer are so skittish you can barely snap off the safety without spooking them, let alone jack a round into the chamber.

I'm all for safety--no hunt or animal is worth someone getting hurt or killed--but hunting without a round chambered just doesn't seem logical or necessary.

I don't have a problem with any method of carry. It is your choice.

If the majority of your hunting is spent behind a set of glasses or a spoting scope no reason to chamber a round until you are ready to shoot.

But if you think it is only a half second difference between carrying a round in the chamber and loading as you shoulder the gun I think you need to try that on a timer.

In the comfort of my office I did. An accurate 1 sec snap shot isn't terribly difficult from a port arms ready. Same position, loading from the magazine with an accurate shot would likely dbl that time to 2.0 sec.

But there is a lot of movement going on to get that done. Movement is a "tell" for animals in the field. Move fast and most will figure out you are not something they want to stare at waiting to be shot.

Not a huge gap in time as long as it isn't DG you are hunting and you have distance required to accomplish the task. Distance always defines the time frames required.

Where I hunt you may not see an animal for more than a few seconds in the heavy ground cover. A quick movement (or any movement past shoulder the gun and fire) to chamber a round and get a shot off almost guarantees an unavailable shot.

How many here have been unable to shoot because the animal simply dissapeared before you could shoot? Likely everyone that has ever hunted.

Only place I have been close to big bears is S.E. Alaska. (ID, WY and MT don't have BIG bears) If I were hunting SE AK above the tree line (which is like 3000' elevation) I would be glassing, as you can see for miles. But getting to the tree line can be some nasty brush if you aren't following bear paths through it.

Walking down a bear path with sides higher than I am tall, call for a round chambered and some serious caution or a bear bell and may be both

Hunter education classes? Are intended to teach beginners how to carry a gun safely in the outdoors. Which as a beginner typically means an unloaded or at least unchambered firearm. My dad started me off (unloaded) the same way as well.

But that is not the way he hunted. By the time I figured that out, I had also learned that you never point a gun at anyone. But he never suggested I chamber a round in my own hunting.

Being a smart kid the club thing I figured out on my own.

Guns that fire when they hit the ground are defective. You may not want to trust a manual safety but they actually work as designed and very, very seldom fail. Generally when I hear of a gun going off during a fall...it simply means the owner had his finger in the trigger with the safety off. Happened to General Patton so not like you will be immune to similar stupidity if you don't pay attention.