I'm ready to take the plunge and buy one of Wayne's (AHR) Dangerous Game Rifles, but I'm having trouble deciding on the caliber. I've narrowed it down to 505 Gibbs or 500 Jeffery.

Is there a compelling reason to pick one caliber over the other??

I was thinking of having it weigh 11 pounds empty with no scope. Does that weight sound about right??

Thanks for the help.

My 600 OK weighs 12 lbs. empty and with no scope, and so does my 700 AHR, so, your weight sounds fine, though many guys on AR have either or both of those calibers you mentioned in rifles down to 8 or 9 lbs.

Tough call on caliber, but, I would go with...either! Best of luck...AHR makes some of the best, super functional rifles today.

Respects,

Phill

500 Jeffery is harder to make feed well, but leaves more of the bolt face. Both are more powerful than anything on the planet needs. I love my 500 Jeffery, but a 505 Gibbs is a thing of beauty.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
500 Jeffery is harder to make feed well, but leaves more of the bolt face. Both are more powerful than anything on the planet needs. I love my 500 Jeffery, but a 505 Gibbs is a thing of beauty.

And I love my 505 Gibbs but am now thinking about a 500 Jeffery build. Basically I say they are functionally identical. Both have advantages and disadvantages, it is just personal preference. From my experience 11 to 11.5 lbs is right for those calibers for me.

I have a 500 Jeffery and I have shot a .505 Gibbs a bunch. I prefer the 500 Jeffery. The Jeffery fits in better in the bolt face of the CZ. If I were building a Gibbs, I would go with the Granite Mountain Action which had a larger bolt face. In addition, that huge Gibbs case requires a bunch more slow burning powder and, as a consequence, I think it generates considerably more recoil. Just my two cents.

Not saying its optimal but has anyone ever had an issue before when it comes to the Gibs on the CZ?

What Chuck and Viper said. There hasn't been anything on this planet that required either one of them since the Beleuchatherium went extinct unless you're planning on stand on the beach and sniping whales. However, there is great comfort to be gotten from a half inch hole in the muzzle end should things ever go seriously south.

And on rifles that large I wouldn't do an ounce under eleven pounds empty. Between 11 1/2 and 12 seems like a better idea.

And on rifles that large I wouldn't do an ounce under eleven pounds empty. Between 11 1/2 and 12 seems like a better idea.[/QUOTE]
I have to agree with your 11.5-12# statement from my experience with the .500 Jef

Gibbs is the right choice. Large case for lower pressure, no rebated rim, and tradition. The advantage to the Jeffery was to squeeze a big cartridge into a standard action...I say just get a bigger action and build a Gibbs. There are also other choices...500 A-square, 500 AHR, 550 Magnum, 600 OK to name a few.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Not saying its optimal but has anyone ever had an issue before when it comes to the Gibs on the CZ?

I have one and I think the boltface issue is an intellectual exercise rather than a real world problen, If there is one shortcoming with the CZ and the 505 it is the narrow body of the action versus the big fat round, Makes feeding tricky but not much trickier than the 500J. Just a different set of problems. CZ has obviously worked it out. I went single stack and never looked back.

Wasn't that the intent for the 500J; to single stack it in a standard Mauser action?

quote:

Originally posted by AfricanHunter:
And on rifles that large I wouldn't do an ounce under eleven pounds empty. Between 11 1/2 and 12 seems like a better idea.

I have to agree with your 11.5-12# statement from my experience with the .500 Jef[/QUOTE]

Yes. Whenever someone talks about these rounds in lighter rifles being easy to shoot make sure they mean with or without a muzzle brake. A lot of folks fail to mention that their 9 lb Gibbs is a pussycat because a half pound of that is a glass pack sized brake.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Gibbs is the right choice.

+1

Neither is optimal.

The Gibbs is unecessarily large and thus has way too much case capacity.

The Jeffery is better in that regard, but has a rebated case head/extractor rim that can cause much grief in feeding.

If I had to choose between the two, I'd go with the Gibbs, as too large is better than potentially unreliable.

However, my fifty is more practical, which is the way I like it: the .500 A-Square.

As for weight, I agree that 11.5 lbs. empty is where you want to be.

The Jeffery is closer to my heart....


M

I have a 500 jeffery in the RSM ruger. I love this gun. Slick feeding and I love to load it long with cast bullets. I doubht I will ever get to africa but for ground hogs pigs and gators I can't think of anything better. It also lets you use those surplus BMG bullets. Give those old gas guzzler V8 motor blocks the coop de gra before there sent to the scrap yard.
What ever you decide HAVE FUN life's too short!

of the 2, the jeffe
i designed the 500 accrel as a modern re-imagination of the 500 schuler

however, no animal will ever know the difference

If Wayne is building the gun, the "feeding" issue with the Jeffery is irrelevent, mine has run flawlessly.

The two factors that swayed my decision were .510 bullets and a useable case capacity. I'm not big on fillers or partial case fills.

If I were to do it again I would have picked the 600 OK

I had the same choice to make. I decided on the Gibbs, and a Granite Mountain Arms action. The primary reason being the rebated rim on the Jeffrey, which can cause feeding issues. A good gunsmith can solve those problems, but if you give him a simpler job to start with then you are likely to end up with a more reliable rifle. The secondary reason is that it is a low pressure cartridge, so with sensible loads (eg 600gn Woodleigh at 2270fps, which is my load using 130gn AR2209 equiv to H4350), you won't have a problem. With a well designed stock the recoil won't be a problem. My rifle is 11 lb, and I can shoot 40 rounds in an afternoon. It's a bit tiring, but that's all. The other point is that any of the big 500's will do the job, and no animal on earth will be able to tell the difference, so make your choice based on things other than ballistics, they can all be loaded much higher than factory specs if you want to push the limit.

Much good advice above.

However, one piece of the equation has been left out. Choose the calibre for the intended level of power. You are not aiming at 8000 foot pounds of energy. A 600 grain bullet at 2270fps is only 6860 foot pounds. You can cover that with the 500 AccRel (short Rigby cartridge), with no pressure problems. As a compromise you could go up to a 500 Mbogo (full-length Rigby basic case), and do the 8000 ftlbs, should you wish. Ballistically, this is the same cartridge as the A2 and 510 Wells, though without a belt.

Another consideration might be re-sale value. I suspect that a standard cartridge would be easier to re-sell than a wildcat.

I had to make a similar choice last year and I went with the 500 AccR. Smaller and matching the intended power level within a standard and inexpensive action appealed to me. Good rifle bullet selection, too. However, if I were to have invested the money in an AHR, I would have been hard-pressed to deside between a 500 Mbogo and a 505 Gibbs. They are two, beautiful, big rounds, teen-age son and grandfather, respectively. The Mbogo will have .510" CEB Raptors available soon and I would imagine that .505" would follow as well. The Gibbs, well, it's a Gibbs, even if you don't take advantage of the powder capacity. Nobody uses its potential, it seems.

Quote: "The Gibbs, well, it's a Gibbs, even if you don't take advantage of the powder capacity. Nobody uses its potential, it seems."

I think you are probably right. I believe you can get 2500fps with the 600gn bullet. I have pushed the 525gn Woodleigh to 2500fps, and I am sure I could have got an extra 100fps to 150fps out of it before I ran into pressure signs. The loads I use (525gn at 2500fps, or 600gn at 2270fps) are quite reasonable to shoot, and I have a lot of fun with them, but I found 600gn at 2380fps (that is as far as I have gone), was starting to get a bit hard on the shoulder. The 525gn load at 2500fps is devastation on pigs, but at that velocity the Woodleighs are well beyond their design impact velocity, and they open up too quickly to get good penetration on larger game. I think most people haven't pushed this cartridge to its potential, because T Rex is dead, and you don't really need to, so why punish yourself?

I second Jeffe and Tanzan. I have chosen the 500 AccRel as well. Cause I want a short (std length action and 20" barrel) and light (8 Ibs)fasthandling rifle able to propel a 570 grs bullet at 2250-2300 fps. I will never again build another 10-13 Ibs , 24-26" barrel big bore.... - not for hunting.. Seems way to unpractical and slow for fast use in close cover (compared to a short and light big bore rifle).... Thats my experience, I have several big bore rifles with 24-26" barrels in calibers from 416 Wby up to 577 Tyrannosaur - they all seem to be retired now after using Jeffes 458 Acc Rel and soon also the 500 Acc Rel in short rifles.. Will test the 500 on 3 hippos in April... Michael McCourrys B&M rifles and cartridges would do equally nice and if I had discovered them some time ago, I know I would never look for anything else.....

I second Jeff, Tanzan, and buffalo. Between the Gibbs and the 500 Jeffery, I would pick the Jeffery. However, if I was building one today, I would just go with Jeff's 500 AccRel. Great cartridge with less recoil then the other two and makes up into a shorter, lighter rifle. What's not to like?

I don't have a .50 cal yet....

If I were in your shoes I'd consider three cartridges...

500 Mbogo
505 Gibbs
500 AHR

I like the idea of the 500 AHR as it is an "improved" 500 Jeff.

- It has a longer neck than the Jeff for better purchase on bullets
- Still has a rebated rim it is less of a rebate than the Jeff.

You can get better info on this round from AHR if your interested

Ron's 500 mbogo looks pretty cool too

Best,
Dave

Michael458 made me see the light a few years ago. So I builded my 458 Acc Rel short and under 7,5 Ibs... Finally.... - after many years dragging long, heavy "muskets" around the field all over the world... Never again will I build such an anchor weighing 10 ibs with a 24"+ tube..

I guess I disagree. My 500 Jeffery feels light and lively in my hands. It's my most favorite rifle of all time. If a 63 year old man with Congestive Heart Failure can carry an 11 lb rifle in Colorado elk country, surely you younger manly men can do it in Africa ...

Chuck, are you sure you have enough gun for Elk??? :-)

It's the CHF. He can't track 'em the way he used to. Got to knock 'em right down!

quote:

Originally posted by doubledown:
If Wayne is building the gun, the "feeding" issue with the Jeffery is irrelevent ...

+1

Pick the one you like better - for looks, for nostalgia, for ease of obtaining brass, etc - whatever the reason. Then let Wayne at AHR do his magic and you will be more than satisfied with the results.

Or just buy Doc's 600 OK and be done with it! Granite Mountain action, great wood, 900gr at 2,350 fps or so....DONE!

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Or just buy Doc's 600 OK and be done with it! Granite Mountain action, great wood, 900gr at 2,350 fps or so....DONE!

Biebs, I'm working on it! I hope Doc still has it when I finally get my money in order!

quote:

Originally posted by doubledown:

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Or just buy Doc's 600 OK and be done with it! Granite Mountain action, great wood, 900gr at 2,350 fps or so....DONE!

Biebs, I'm working on it! I hope Doc still has it when I finally get my money in order!

Well,

It's now in the hands of and for sale through David Dunn of Trop Gun Shop in Elizabethtown, PA. Made the rounds at the Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show and generated quite the buzz!

Thanks and it really is a great rifle as is all of Wayne's work!

Sorry for the thread hijack ...

David's a great guy. Did he have any of my rifles there? Went down to his shop a week before the show, and he bought my Arrieta sidelock 8x57 and 3 RSMs from me.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
David's a great guy. Did he have any of my rifles there? Went down to his shop a week before the show, and he bought my Arrieta sidelock 8x57 and 3 RSMs from me.

Biebs,

I didn't make it to the show though would have loved to do so and to have met with Craig Boddington and David Turnbull who were in the Trop booth.

500 Jeffery



Brad

Nice......Really Nice!!!!

Beautiful rifle!

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
I guess I disagree. My 500 Jeffery feels light and lively in my hands. It's my most favorite rifle of all time. If a 63 year old man with Congestive Heart Failure can carry an 11 lb rifle in Colorado elk country, surely you younger manly men can do it in Africa ...

Agree Chuck, have done so for many years, even with my 577 Tyrannosaur (fully loaded at 14 Ibs). No problem, just not comfortable and definately not as handy and fast in use as my 7-8 Ibs short big bore 458 and 500 Acc Rel rifles.. No comparison at all.. Not even close.. I like the immense power of my 577 shooting a 800 grs bullet at 2500 fps. Next time I will have to test the new BBW#13 750 grs solids in the 577 at 2600 fps. For sure impact and penetration will be awesome.. Great fun to try different calibers and rifles. Some years ago I never even imagined that I would ever like a light 20" barrel big bore.. But today - after having some first hand experience, I just feel more comfortable and a lot faster with the light and short rifles..

Mate i have a 500 Jeffery and have used a 505 and the jeffery is much better.In saying that i don't like the bitch off the bench but it is great in the field i have had no trouble getting brass and the 535grn woodliegh projectiles are fantastic!I friend of mine and I hunted togeither him with his 505 and me with my 500. At the end of the hunt he got ride of his 505 and had a jeffery made for himself. If the rifle is built for you you will have no problem with it but if its off the shelf both will bite you like a shark

quote:

i have a 500 Jeffery and have used a 505 and the jeffery is much better.

"That don't make no sense." (Pete, in Brother Where Art Thou?)

I prefer the .500 Jeffery over the .505 Gibbs as at least here in Germany I have a larger selection of .510 dia bullets ranging from 435 to 600 grains.
The lighter than standard bullets are giving me the opportunity to use the rifle regularly so I am much more familiar with it than with my .505 Gibbs.
In addition, the smaller capacity is also easier to adapt to a reduced load level.
The rebated rim has never created any feeding problem in the two rifles I own, one is build on a standard length DWM action while the other is build on a special made action build by Harald Wolf.
The gunsmith who is building the rifle need to use the correct magazine box and follower developed for this cartridge and need to understand what he is doing – so even with a standard length action the are many hours of stoning necessary.
My rifle build on the standard action is weighing 10,1 pound, the one build by Harald is weighing 11,6 pound. I can manage to shoot the lighter one from the bench and I can carry the heavier one all day in Africa.

Robert