The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Update ! Winchester M70 big bores coming this fall?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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In the recent edition of Hunting Magazine one of the gun editors mentioned that Winchester will be making the big bores this fall or early spring. Anyone else know anything? | ||
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I read the same thing on NitroExpress last night. As I posted there, I wonder what the pricing will be? ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
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Any word on what carts? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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I hope they don't weigh more than six pounds or the pro-rugger crowd here won't be able to even hold one up at the gunshop. hee-hee Rich DRSS | |||
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577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Any word if they will offer any in left handed? Good Hunting,  | |||
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I'll believe it when I see it. They can't sell what they already have on the market. Even Cabela's can't move them and now they are discounted quite a bit. | |||
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Might explain Winchester releasing the Safari line of ammo. Granted rifles and ammo are two different companies, bt they often collaborate. John | |||
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Why can't they move them? Rifle Magazine gave them a great review (although there are very few guns Rifle doesn't like). I've also heard uniformly good reports on the Net? I was thinking of buying one ... Chuck Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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Now don't blast me, but I think they would sell better if they didn't improve the trigger. I say if it ain't broke don't fix it! I have 8 pre 64 Win 70's and 5 of those are 30-06. I will still shell out more for a well used M70 than I will for a brand new improved one. I know, I am a dinosaur. PA Bear Hunter, NRA Benefactor | |||
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Why can't they move them? It's easy. They aren't in any of the local gun stores, at least not near where I live. In the Sacramento area, there are several guns stores, a few of them fairly large. Only 1 of them had ever had any new M70s from the NC factory. And then, all they get are a few Featherweights in WSM calibers and those seem to just sit on the shelf. I have been check back every few weeks looking for a 270 Win in a Sporter or Supergrade model. I haven't seen any Sporters or Supergrades yet. I have seen them on Gunbrokers, just not in the local stores. | |||
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Aren't they only built in the WSM calibers? Some people don't like those. | |||
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Mirrors my experience here, with the exception of the 270 WSM, the WSMs are largely ignored in favor of more standard calibers. The rifles I have handled were well machined, triggers are nice, and finish is very good. The only problem I have, I don't need another 30-06, 300 WM, 270, 243, 308, etc. and nothing with a rebated rim. I would love to see them bring out the 470 Capstick again. John John | |||
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I ordered a Super Grade 2 years ago and it just came in yesterday, so don't hold your breath on production dates. | |||
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My experience has been the opposite of airgun's. I have had 5 of the pre-64's and was very disappointed in what they were - average trigger, average accuracy. The stocks were ill fitting for me and I did not like the trigger. I sold them and bought the CRF post '64's. I have 6 of these and all shoot less than an 1" with a couple of types of ammo. Some required accurizing and bedding. All needed trigger adjusting. Now, I bought a new CRF in a featherweight .300WM. It is my favorite rifle now. It shoots .6" groups with 180gr Federal TSX ammo, the trigger has no creep at 3lbs - all straight out of the box. Given the choice between a new M70 from FN and a pre-64 for the same price - I would take the new one every time based on my experience. I do not consider guns to be an investment nor do I collect so I put no value on the "pre-64" mistique. If it shoots accurately, I collect it. | |||
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Jetdrv, They are made in many traditional calibers as well. CHeck their website. I bought a .300 WM. | |||
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Dogcat, you missed a key word in my post; I not only said used, but actually said "well" used. Those would not be museum pieces! I only have one that is 100% original, and it is no safe queen either. I have owned a lot of pre 64 Win 70's through the years and it is hard to find good ones these days as far as collector quality. They are there if you have a pile of money, which ain't me. My current lineup are the worst as far as collector quality that I have ever owned. I know how to adjust a M70 trigger and when properly done they will be about 3-1/2 pounds using no shortened springs and no stoning of the surfaces. If you have one with creep you pretty much have to get used to it or change it out (rolling the dice), or find a very good M70 trigger man and I currently know none. I am sure some probably exist on this site. As far as stock fit, I am lucky. I have zero problems shooting the low combs with a scope and high rings. I have friends who just can't get comfortable at all with a pre 64 stock of either style. As far as acuuracy goes a pre 1955 example is hard to beat if the barrel was maintained properly. Those barrels were babied as much or more as the best custom single hook cut rifled match barrel made today or whenever. There is a trick to tuning the action screws. Always put all of the screws in partway and then tighten the front (floorplate) screw first and as tight as you can, then the rear guard screw just as tight, tighten the middle guard screw just tight(not half as tight as the others), then tighten the forend screw like this: run it in until it stops and then give it a little torque, back it out and turn it in until it stops. Unless there is something wrong with that gun (barrel or bedding) it is going to shoot well below MOA. I like the pre 64 M70 because how they were made and what they were made out of. ETA: I have owned at least 3 CRF M70 Classics, one of which was a 338 Supergrade out of the custom shop a couple of years ahead of the public release of the CRF. All were good guns but just didn't ring my bell I guess. I didn't like the bolt construction or the bolt release mechanism. As stated in my original posting, I am a diosaur and know it. PA Bear Hunter, NRA Benefactor | |||
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It's a pretty tough times to be launching a new venture, even if it's for a venerable product like the Model 70. Good thing FN is not dependent on this to succeeed immediately. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Airgun, Please do not interpret my comments as a knock on your choices. The pre-64 has a great reputation and is well made - it just does not fit me well. I am all about shooting a gun that fits and is "fit for purpose". You and I are both fortunate in that we have found what "works" for us. In no way was I trying to be critical of your choices. If I could afford a Biesen customized pre-64, I would get on it right now. But, for now, the new M70's are treating me well. I would want everyone and anyone to have and shoot the gun that works for them. I am not overly brand loyal until I find what I like. | |||
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No offense was taken, nor was I critical of your observations. We are both users, not collectors, although I may be classified as an accumulator! PA Bear Hunter, NRA Benefactor | |||
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Amen on the "accumulating". My wife calls it an obsession. | |||
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I'm the one that wrote that. I haven't talked to them in a while, but I don't think we'll see it before 2010. I have 2 of the new M-70s, a stainless, synthetic .30-06 and a Featherweight in .300 WSM. The quality is incredible, but I wish they'd left the trigger alone. The old one is bomb-proof and simple. The new one feels great but is more complicated. If they are still sitting on the shelf, it has to do with the economy. Hunting rifles sales are way down right now. All the growth is in semi-auto handguns and ARs. | |||
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Thanks for chiming in. Do you have any idea on the caliber selection when they do show up? I'm guessing .375 H&H and .416 RM but wonder if we will see a .458 WM or Lott. ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
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I really don't know. I imagine we'll find out closer to SHOT. | |||
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Thanks. ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
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If they chamber one in .375 Ruger and price it under say $1200 I might give buying one a serious thought. | |||
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I called Winchester and they said they will "know" in November 2009 if they will offer big bores. I asked which calibers and they said they are still deciding. I told them that I would like to see .375 H&H, .416 Rem or Rigby, .458 WM and .458 Lott. They said they appreciated the input as they were thinking it through. I asked if they would like to hear from other potential customers and they said they definitely would like to be called and told what the African crowd likes. Here are the phone numbers - 800.333.3288 or 801.876.2711 | |||
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Everyone call and ask for 404 Jeffery!  ____________________________ If you died tomorrow, what would you have done today ... 2018 Zimbabwe - Tuskless w/ Nengasha Safaris 2011 Mozambique - Buffalo w/ Mashambanzou Safaris | |||
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There are so many good used ones around that I can't imagine waiting for a new one. | |||
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I bought a 458 win used right after win went down. I haven't seen any since in our area, but CA isn't exactly the DG capital of the world either. I would agree with sevens on a 404J, it would make a great gift for the Mrs. Also, a 404J just makes sense, it is good on damn near anything, and you don't need filling work after a hard days shooting. As I alluded to earlier, a 470 Capstick would be good for tenderizing my shoulder. I favor the M70 classic actions over the pre-64's. The bolts are less prone to binding and the gas venting is a nice thing as well. I also like the balance of the Cro-moly receiver as well. Politics being what they are, I don't see them chambering any of the ruger magnums (at least at first) or the 458 lott. My guess will be 375H&H, 416 Rem, and 458 Win. This is bad for me, I already have a safari express in 375 H7H and a 458 win. I also just acquired a Ruger RSM in 416 Rigby. Hopefully they will continue to cross bolt their stocks, reinforce the bedding, and keep the weight the same. If they were smart, they would build all of the actions the same, that would open simple conversion to 458 lott for those that can't live without one. | |||
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I'm dreaming, I know but it would be nice to see lefty big bores. EDIT: Called But I know that my 375 H&H is going to be a spinster her entire life. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Frank, Call and tell them you would like to see a left handed model. It cannot hurt and the call is free. | |||
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I called and talked to Winchester using the 800.333.3288 number (followed by a 3 and a 1 to get to a person). They are actually taking a tally of all the calibers people are recommending so call and vote. VOTE 404 JEFFERY!  Thanks dogcat for the info. ____________________________ If you died tomorrow, what would you have done today ... 2018 Zimbabwe - Tuskless w/ Nengasha Safaris 2011 Mozambique - Buffalo w/ Mashambanzou Safaris | |||
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I just called and can confirm Sevens's remark. They definitely want to know what we want. | |||
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I feel for the lefties. John | |||
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don't. i have a nice CZ on the way and when they are properly re-stocked they can be quite a trim, fetching piece of hardware. | |||
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I called on the 801 number as I have flat rate LD and told them 375 H&H, 416 Rem, and 458 Lott. PA Bear Hunter, NRA Benefactor | |||
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tell em 375 ruger, 416 ruger, 458 ar, 470 ar, and 500 ar, left and right handed guns! opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I called them and told them 505 Gibbs, 585 Express, and 600 OK. | |||
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Vote stainless also... and let them know if they are not watching AR threads they do not have there hand on the pulse of the big bore market or any other markets relating to Winchester.I am back from a long Hiatus... or whatever. Take care. smallfry | |||
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