The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores suggestions on updating gun coll.Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I've recently unloaded some of my squirrel killers, so I'm in the market for at least one new big bore, and I'm looking for a little input, suggestion, whatever from you guys. I've narrowed it down to three choices, and they are listed in the order of current preference: 1) .404 jeffery in an 03 mauser, or a 450/400 double if I can find a good one. 2) .375 H&H in an 03 Mauser (I've owned a 375 H&H before and traded it in as part of a deal to get the Chapuis) 3) .458 Lott in an 03 Mauser Let me just list some of my other rifles that are relevant to this discussion so you all have an idea of what I already have/might need. Or, just in case you want to give input on ballistics gaps etc. They are as follows: 35 whelen in a remington mountain rifle model, 350 remy mag guide gun, 358 winchester BLR 338 remington win mag 45/70 (listed b/c it's in a Ruger #1 and can be loaded pretty hot, but it's still a single shot, so not a real viable DG rifle; I'm also considering turning it into a 450/400) I've also got one in a Marlin cowboy lever action 9.3X74R Chapuis double 416 remington remington custom shop 470 nitro express 140 Merkel So, what do you guys think I should go with here? Feal free to list anything I haven't already, and feal free to make any comments on Mauser or certain brands in general. Thanks for the input fellas. "Sometimes nothing can be a pretty cool hand." 470 Heym; 9.3x74r Chapuis, Heym 450/400 on it's way | ||
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I'll say it again! Since you have a .416 Remmie, you don't need a .375 or .404. What you really "need" is a Lott!  "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Actually, you dont need a Lott, your 470 gives the same ballistics for all practical purposes. you need a .500, jeffrey or gibbs or A2, any of which would be significantly more powerful than the 470. anyhting in .510 has more bullets available for reloading, but if you are in to "classics' choose a Gibbs!
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Alright Marko. Your Lott has definitely moved up the list in front of the 375 H&H. I know I don't need a .404 or a 450/400, but I've always wanted one of them (particularly a double 450/400). Besides, how much more power do you need than 500 grains going 2100 fps? Like I said though, I am somewhat leaning towards the Lott because of its versatility... I can shoot eles or hogs with it. It may ultimately come down to what I can find first, as I am not a patient individual when it comes to buying a new toy. "Sometimes nothing can be a pretty cool hand." 470 Heym; 9.3x74r Chapuis, Heym 450/400 on it's way | |||
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the lott is just waaaaaaay practical although it should be called the 458 buhmiller  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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[ Actually, you dont need a Lott, your 470 gives the same ballistics for all practical purposes. you need a .500, jeffrey or gibbs or A2, any of which would be significantly more powerful than the 470. anyhting in .510 has more bullets available for reloading, but if you are in to "classics' choose a Gibbs! Here are 3 of my classic big bores; from above, .404 jeffreys,.505 gibbs, and 416 rigby, cartridges, from left, 404, 416, 505  http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa33/505gibbs/3customrifles-2.jpg[/IMG] [/IMG] [/QUOTE][/QUOTE][/QUOTE] | |||
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Indlovu -- nice rifles BTW!! maddenwh gave three choices -- .375, .404, and .458 Lott -- of those three I lean towards the Lott........ "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Those are some great looking rifles. I particularly like the stock on the Gibbs and the Jeffery... them sure is purdy. How is it shooting that Gibbs off the bench, or do you just shoot it off hand? I guess if you've got a big ele or cape buff charging your ars, the recoil of the Gibbs might just feel like a punch in the shoulder. Marko- I am open for other suggestions as well. "Sometimes nothing can be a pretty cool hand." 470 Heym; 9.3x74r Chapuis, Heym 450/400 on it's way | |||
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My 505 Gibbs standard load fires a 650gr cast gas checked bullet at 2278fps...and I will sit down at the bench and fire eight to ten rounds in a 30 minute period four or five days a week. This is a CZ with mercury recoil reducer in the butt stock and a brake; both are factory. Are you willing to consider a wildcat Super Magnum? If so, check out the 550 Gibbs Magnum I am building, or the 577BME case...a 577NE 3" capacity case for bolt guns. Rich DRSS | |||
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I'm really not looking to go much higher than the .458 Lott. In fact, initially what I really wanted was a 9.3X64 or the 404/ 450/400. I never really thought I'd need more than a 470, but I've always thought of getting a Lott. I am also giving some thought to a Merkel 500 nitro express as well. Man, decisions, decisions... they're a biatch, but shopping sure is fun. "Sometimes nothing can be a pretty cool hand." 470 Heym; 9.3x74r Chapuis, Heym 450/400 on it's way | |||
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Rich, the CZ has a brake from the factory??  "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Also, I never heard anybody reply to my question about CZ big bores requiring glass beading in order to prevent stock cracking and/or breaking... anybody? Would a CZ be a better decision than the mauser in you all's opinion? Give me some pros and cons if you all can and are kind enough/ give a rats ars. "Sometimes nothing can be a pretty cool hand." 470 Heym; 9.3x74r Chapuis, Heym 450/400 on it's way | |||
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IMO CZ is an inferior firearm. I would not be asking the board what I need, I would simply,instead, buy what I liked. I would have a mind of my own even if it encompassed having firearms in duplicate calibers, simply because I might like a piece of wood or the workmanship of a particular firearm. Dr.C At Home on the Range-Texas Panhandle | |||
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Thanks for zip doc cash. I'm going to get what I want. I just like to hear others' opinions on fire arms. It's good to have information before making an investment, and some of the guys on this forum have shot or owned cals that I'm interested in but not personally knowledgeable of. No one is deciding squat for me Doc. My method of selecting a good gun is obviously different and more structured than yours. I find the cal I want, then I find the perfect rifle for me in that specific cal. Why do you believe CZ's are inferior rifles (inferior relative to what)? I dislike and distrust such claims that are not backed up by elaboration. I'd gladly listen to your reasoning if you had only supplied some. Thanks for nothing. "Sometimes nothing can be a pretty cool hand." 470 Heym; 9.3x74r Chapuis, Heym 450/400 on it's way | |||
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If I were to buy an over the counter big bore in a classic cartridge I'm thinking CZ's safari classics line in 500 Jeffery or 505 Gibbs. Alot of gun for the money. R. | |||
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There's nothing inherently wrong with CZs. They're rough out of the box and need some tuning like nearly ALL new rifles (excluding the real high-end offerings). It's a great foundation and they tend to be accurate, plus they are inexpensive offering the buyer more "bang for the buck" than other makes. Will you have to sink some money into a CZ? -- yeah, on the usual stuff like glass bedding, cross-bolting, etc....... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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maddenwh: You get what you pay for except a mind of your own........guess your just stuck with what you've got. Have a nice day and Gig'em Aggies. Dr.C At Home on the Range-Texas Panhandle | |||
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I'd go with a classic 404 Mauser, and never look back! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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I agree with some of the others, you are covered well with 9.3, 416, 470 calibers I would look for a classic 500 caliber in the Jeffery or the Gibbs in a bolt or as you said maybe a 500 N.E. in the Merkel. My personal battery includes 22, 243, 30-06, 338, 375, 416, 505 Gibbs, and 500 N.E. on the way. And I believe they all have there nitch. I believe some calibers are perfect for certain game, IMO 338 for elk, the 416 for brown bear, 375 as my all around African pee shooter, and 500 stuff for ele and buff. These are just some of my personal preferences. There is always room for a another big bore in the gun case. "An individual with experience is never at the mercies of an individual with an argument" | |||
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why limit yourself - get one of each    | |||
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So, what do you guys think I should go with here? Feal (sic) free to list anything I haven't already, and feal (sic) free to make any comments on Mauser or certain brands in general. Thanks for the input fellas. If I was to 'update' my 'collection' I would have a Mauser before a CZ. The latter is for those folks who can't afford the former. Use the search function to see all the horror stories about big bore CZ stocks splitting at the wrist. Plus all the other deficiencies CZ has to offer big bore owners. IMO, they're best used as tomato stakes! But then I think that about Ruger, too. Sorry if I stepped on toes, but you asked. | |||
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Given that you have the .416 and the .470, perhaps the .375 or .404 would make most sense. The .375 is more practical but the .404 has more romance, so it would really be up to you as tio which carries more weight. Is there a particular reason you have tied your cartridge choices to the M 03? I guess I do not see the allure of the M 03 Mauser. It has the Mauser name but not the Mauser attributes. I am sure it is nicely finshed and with the decocking system quite safe, it just does not appeal to me personally. You can modify the CZ and end up with a pretty nice rifle, or buy a true 98-style Mauser, FN Supreme, etc. AHR makes some nice rifles on the CZ action. Here is a previous thread on the M 03. ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
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I'd get the 404! Classic!!!! Ed DRSS Member | |||
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onefun, the CZ is for those who would rather spend the $10K difference on a trip to Africa, and have no ego to stroke, IMHO. Again, IMHO, the step up from a CZ is a double rifle, not a bolt gun. My suggestion here would be a 505 Gibbs, having spent the last fifteen months or so shooting one. DO NOT mean to hijack the thread, let us be positive here.  Rich DRSS | |||
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Thanks, guys! I dont shoot the Gibbs off a bench, but off shooting sticks. Even then, the recoil does - shall we say- get your attention! I use 500 gr GSC solids at 2350 and 600 gr Woodleigh softs at 2100 fps for hunting; recoil is about the same, and about the max I can tolerate without developing a flinch! Attached pics of Woodleigh 600 r, solids and soft; barnes 500 gr; GSC 500 gr solid 
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Doccash- I should have suspected that such thoughtless diatribes would come from an Aggie. Let me ask, are your ridiculous responses to my inquiries bitter in nature simply because I'm a graduate of and law school student at THE UNIVERSITY? Usually, we longhorns have the civilty to restrain judgement on aggs before we hear what they have to say. I hope you're just a bitter ars aggie and that not all of your fellow alumni are as priggish as you. I just wanted opinions on certain guns I was considering. I see that you lacked the courtesy to provide one with regards to my question. If you don't have anything of value to add to the thread, go back collge station. I bet you're just a graduate of Blinn in any case. Even real aggies have more class than what you've shown. To others that have given good insights on my question, I appreciate it very much. I will no longer answer to Doccash or any of his mindless rantings. "Sometimes nothing can be a pretty cool hand." 470 Heym; 9.3x74r Chapuis, Heym 450/400 on it's way | |||
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On another note, I didn't realize how common the the Gibbs was. Perhaps it's not the collar bone cracker I thought. CHARLESHELM- You hit on the nose with regards to your comments on the 375 and the 404. I too agree that the 375 is probably more practical; I just dig the idea of the 404. I've decided to go with either the 404 or the 458 Lott, despite all the suport for the much vaunted 505. Whether I get the Lott or the Jeffery depends on which I can find first. I'll try and post pics when I get a hold of one or the other. Hopefully, that will be sooner rather than later. Thanks to all for your thoughts, with the exception of Docarswhol. "Sometimes nothing can be a pretty cool hand." 470 Heym; 9.3x74r Chapuis, Heym 450/400 on it's way | |||
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maddenwh -- did I mention that I think you should get a Lott?  "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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You've about convinced me. If I find a good one before I find that 404, that's what I'm going with. If I just went along with what you said Marko, then I'd be proving Docdmbars's point. I might be able to trade enough of my pee shooters to get both... probably wishful thinking. "Sometimes nothing can be a pretty cool hand." 470 Heym; 9.3x74r Chapuis, Heym 450/400 on it's way | |||
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 At Home on the Range-Texas Panhandle | |||
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maddenwh is not a troll. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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yada, yada, yada. Don't feed the Doctor, I mean dolt. Thanks M. I promised not to reply to the good "doctor"(probably a vet), but I couldn't help it. I promise this is the last time. "Sometimes nothing can be a pretty cool hand." 470 Heym; 9.3x74r Chapuis, Heym 450/400 on it's way | |||
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Speaking from person al experience, my CZ 505 stock cracked, not at the wrist, but in the forearm area just behind the recoil lug. I did glass bed and added 2 crossbolts, no further problems. The front sight protector flew off after the first 3 shots; I glued it down. But, I did have to work on the action, it was pretty rough; I also put a sorbothane pad on the comb to bring the height up for a scope. Helped with the cheek bruising,too! Now I have about 300 rounds through the gun, no problems at all. So its a fine rifle, just needs a little setting up. I actually bought this rifle so I could experiment with the cartridge, shoot lead bullets, heavy loads etc. I did not want to do that in my other 505, a Fred Wells number. If using as your hunting rifle, I would deffinitely also shorten the barrel to 23" Above, 505 in CZ; note crossbolts and comb pad. Below, 505 by Wells; weighs a pound more, but recoils significantly less with same loads. No sorbothane comb pad, either! 
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I actually corrspondedd with jason Morton at CZ-USA re their 500 jeffrey; this is a newer offering, and I have an older (one of the first) CZ 505's. According to Jason, the newer rifle has higher quality wood, and they will shorten the barrel for no extra charge. The newer stock is re-inforced better, and you can even get a long throat version (to accomodate those 50BMG projectiles) for a little extra.
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If you get a Lott, i would strongly suggest getting a Whitworth in 458, and have it reamed out an extra 5/1000" rather than getting the CZ or RSM. Much lighter, livlier rifle; for a Lott, you dont need the heft of the CZ, IMO.I have one in the works now. Will be happy to let you know how it turns out, should get it in a few weeks. Oh, dont forget to replace the original red rubber butt pad! Re jeffrey, CZ says it will take 6-8 weeks, custom order; MSRP 3 grand, but my local sportsmans warehouse says they will sell it to me for 2500. For immediate gratification, contact Bijou Creek gun works, they have a nice one in stock right now. SAFARIKID had his jeffrey built by them, see his threads and pics! Good luck, and enjoy whatever you buy!
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That's great because I really am looking for immediate gratification. Thanks for all the info. Indlovu "Sometimes nothing can be a pretty cool hand." 470 Heym; 9.3x74r Chapuis, Heym 450/400 on it's way | |||
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