[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nakihunter:
The ammo arrived today - 90 rounds of custom ...

"They cost me $4 a pop which is less than I can buy new Norma brass for!!! " QUOTE]

Congratulations. You will enjoy that rifle. I get over 20 shots out of Norma cases in my 416 Rigby, so the cost of quality brass is well worthwhile. My reloads work out at $3 each, so at $4 each the guy doing your reloads is giving you good value.

If I assume 10 reloads per case, & Hornady bullets @ $82 per packet, that $3 per round is spot on. ADI powder is $69 per 500 gm can.

With 81 replies and 5700 views for this thread, do you understand how much attention your hunt report will get?

I've not followed this post closely as I don't have any experience with the .416 but let me tell you, I'll enjoy every detailed segment of your report!

Safe travels and happy hunting!

Thanks Scott. Yes I really appreciate the great depth of knowledge and the generous willingness to share it among AR members.

Some of my threads have had great support - like the related one on African forum about my planning for the trip & a few others.

I am posting these detailed threads partly to keep my motivation levels up and find a way to achieve the dream. I also find the planning part very enjoyable and a big learning experience. I've just bought 3 books on Southern African birds & mammals.

The hunting trip itself will be just the normal buffalo with a few PG. I do plan to spend 2 days in Vic falls & 2 days in Hwange park BEFORE the hunt.

But it will be MY buffalo!

quote:

Think about reinforcing the front of the sheetmetal box, or at least filling in with epoxy between box front and magazine well.
that prevents the front of the box from getting dimples from battering of bullet tips in recoil.

Hi RIP,

Is that reinforcement a piece of cold rolled steel soldered in place, or something more exotic welded to the front of the box?
I was thinking of mixing up a gob of Devcon Titanium putty for my rig.

L/D

PS For backup on running bison shots the CZ brass bead (in good light) nestled into the shallow V dead on at 80 to 100 meters. I am considering the NECG ghost in the ring with a fiber optic sight up front.

Bro'Dart,

Cold-rolled steel soldered on, and some stainless scrap on a stainless box has been used, Rusty keeps refining the touch-up.

I have also just filled in tight with epoxy bedding between the front of the box and the stock.

Allow me to collect some old shots of box front reinforcement here:

CZ 550 Magnum 500 Mbogos:







M70 Winchester Stainless 12.7x68mm Magnum:




M70 Winchester Stainless 400 Whelen Berry





CZ 550 Magnum .395 Tatanka:





CZ 550 Magnum .375/404 Jeffery Saeed of 2012:

I was back at the range & was able to do some chronographing as well. Made good progress & confirmed a few things.

Firstly the chrony is fine - under the pines!

Secondly the the Woodleigh 410 softs are definitely 2280 fps & probably pushed by AR 2213 SC (H4831). It is shooting way lower than the others. So I'll have to develop some new loads with AR 2209 (H4350).

Hornady 400 gr SN & Barnes 400 gr Solid shot to same POA & same velocity - 2550 fps. Good accuracy at 25 & 50 meters.

Barnes 350 TSX was in 2800+ fps & shooting too high. I might drop the charge by 2 or 3 grains - to say 2650 fps & hopefully drop POI to 1 or 2 inches above the solid.

FINALLY - I got the technique on the shooting stick right. Now a lot more stable & confident.

quote:

Barnes 350 TSX was in 2800+ fps

Naki I have a wood stocked CZ550 in 416Rigby. I use 98 grains of AR2209. 410 grain Woodlieg RNSP 2450fps, 400grain Hydrostatics-the only solid to use IMHO- 2550fps and both hit same POI.

I put a post in your "Paid my deposit" Thread about who I hunted with in Zimbabwe and results. I should extract the digit and do a hunt report.

Thanks mate. Yes I would love to read your hunt report.

I find the Hydros very expensive @ over $5 each! Can't get them here - need to get special imports. I have gone the CEB rout and ordered from Reloading international http://www.reloadinginternatio...llets&sort=1a&page=6. They have been very good to deal with & they do all the paper work.

My current situation is that I get good velocity & groups with TSX 350gr (2850 fps) & banded solid 400 gr (2550 fps). But POI is 6 inches vertical. I'll drop the 350gr to 2650 fps & see if that makes a difference.

The Aussie buffalo cull hunt looks like a great way to prepare for this!

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Thanks mate. Yes I would love to read your hunt report.

I find the Hydros very expensive @ over $5 each! Can't get them here - need to get special imports. I have gone the CEB rout and ordered from Reloading international http://www.reloadinginternatio...llets&sort=1a&page=6. They have been very good to deal with & they do all the paper work.

My current situation is that I get good velocity & groups with TSX 350gr (2850 fps) & banded solid 400 gr (2550 fps). But POI is 6 inches vertical. I'll drop the 350gr to 2650 fps & see if that makes a difference.

The Aussie buffalo cull hunt looks like a great way to prepare for this!

If your groups are good with 350 TSX, then your bedding is probably OK.

However, you would probably find it easier to get a 350 grain solid to the same POI than tinkering with velocities and a 400 grain solid. CEB makes a 350 grain .416" solid and Barnes, of course, does so.

You can order flatnose solids directly from Barnes, though I don't know how that works from overseas. Perhaps they can be special ordered by a dealer in New Zealand. In any case, the Barnes policy of marketing roundnosed solids to dealers and reserving flatnose solids only for Barnes online is extremely stupid.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Thanks mate. Yes I would love to read your hunt report.

I find the Hydros very expensive @ over $5 each! Can't get them here - need to get special imports. I have gone the CEB rout and ordered from Reloading international http://www.reloadinginternatio...llets&sort=1a&page=6. They have been very good to deal with & they do all the paper work.

My current situation is that I get good velocity & groups with TSX 350gr (2850 fps) & banded solid 400 gr (2550 fps). But POI is 6 inches vertical. I'll drop the 350gr to 2650 fps & see if that makes a difference.

The Aussie buffalo cull hunt looks like a great way to prepare for this!

The Hydros are expensive but worth it IMHO. They are not as good as a Soft Point when you need a soft but they are way better than a conventional solid when soft or solid are needed.

Dont know why you would need special imports. may have to look into this as I will be taking the Rigby and Hydros over for a mate to have a shot.

If you can find some way of getting say 10 or 15 Hydros to NZ I would really appreciate it!

I'll see what I can do.

Great rifle, excellent caliber!!! After owning one, my only complaint is the Bluing SUCKS.....if you ever expect it to see any precipitation, have it Cerakoted or the like in anticipation. CZ rings and ALL. TRUST ME on this one! After my Elk hunt, I sadly know!

I made a Kinetic bullet puller today & pulled 15 of the 410 gr Woodleigh custom ammo.

The load is 98 gr of powder. So the 2280 fps velocity would indicate that the powder is probably AR 2213SC (H4831SC). I'll have to play around with the powder in other loads to confirm. I would appreciate any thoughts on this.

The kinetic puller was simple - 4.5 inch PVC pipe. Tie somerubber tubing to the botton. Insert the round with shell holder at the top & tape it with masking tap. Bang it hard on a block of wood! I'll post some photos.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
I made a Kinetic bullet puller today & pulled 15 of the 410 gr Woodleigh custom ammo.

The load is 98 gr of powder. So the 2280 fps velocity would indicate that the powder is probably AR 2213SC (H4831SC). I'll have to play around with the powder in other loads to confirm. I would appreciate any thoughts on this.

The kinetic puller was simple - 4.5 inch PVC pipe. Tie somerubber tubing to the botton. Insert the round with shell holder at the top & tape it with masking tap. Bang it hard on a block of wood! I'll post some photos.

Nakihunter,

I always appreciate a look at a homemade kinetic bullet puller for the bigger bores.

A John Haviland article in the OCT-NOV 2013 HANDLOADER (#286) reviews the
Montana Rifle Company's Dangerous Game Rifle chambered for .416 Rigby, 24" barrel.

It is a good source with current lots of powder (assumed), and some good bullets, including some you might use,
and some good velociy and accuracy loads, FOR THAT RIFLE:



Note the factory load velocities.

Nakihunter said:

"... pulled 15 of the 410 gr Woodleigh custom ammo. The load is 98 gr of powder. So the 2280 fps velocity would indicate that the powder is probably AR 2213SC (H4831SC). I'll have to play around with the powder in other loads to confirm. I would appreciate any thoughts on this."

Thoughts: That sounds like a good guess.
Note the 98.0 grain charge of H4831 with Nosler 400-grain solid gave 2375 fps in a 24" barrel,
that bullet will be longer than the Woodleigh 410-grain soft, and hence give higher velocity with same charge, regardless of slight weight difference.

I just put up a couple of new loads on
ammoguide for .416 350 grain TTSX.

It turns out that 101.5 grains of R-17 produced 2825 fps, as opposed to 102.5 grains R-17 with the TSX for 2818fps.

For a milder allaround hunting load with the 350TTSX I listed 99.5 grains of R-17 at 2763fps. The .444 BC means that the TTSX bullet is quite flat out at 300 yards.

As a bonus, I'll be taking these 416 350 TTSX 2825fps .444 BC bullets
along with some 338 225 TTSX 2838fps .514 BC.
Both the 338 and the 416 will be within an inch of each other's trajectories out to 400 yards!
Pretty nice hunting combo.

RIP, here is my Kinetic bullet puller. cheap & ugly but it works perfectly. I am sure a guy who is skilled with tools and a bit of imagination can improve on it.



These are the basics - PVC pipe cut to size and rubber tubing covering one end. 416 Rigby round in shell holder.



OAL about 4.4 inches. Adequate for the bullet to drop out & the rubber tubing also protects the lead tip from deforming.



Round in PVC pipe & taped down with masking tape.



Final step - just throw the PCV unit on to a block of wood and catch it on the rebound. 4 or 5 knocks should do the job!

I am sure I'll get a few comments. I am also sure that improvements on this will emerge.

Nakihunter,

I can do that.
I like using the mallet-type kinetic bullet pullers, quicker to grab one of those,
though I do have collet pullers for up to 50-cal, have to go dig out and set up.
Kinetic puller or vise grips are always handier for a whoopsee.

Just need a Hammer of Thor kinetic puller, homemade.

My CEB bullets arrived today. 416 - 325 HP noncons (Safari Raptors) & 350 gr #13 solids. Also 9.3 cal - 255 gr HP Safari raptors with 25 talon tips to use for ling range & 280 gr solids.

Now to load them & see how they shoot.

I had a good day at the range today.

I have been getting a bit concerned with my ability to shoot well with the 416 Rigby. No steady on the sticks. Concerned that I was pulling too many shots. Concerned that I might not do my job right on the hunt etc. My first big bore .....

Well, firstly I decided that my loads were a bit on the fast side - safe but fast. Therefore the recoil was also lively. So I cut back 4 grains of AR2209 (H4350) on the 400 gr & 350 gr bullets. Bingo - velocities dropped to 2400 fps for the 400 & 410 gr bullets & to 2650 fps for the 350gr TSX & 340 Gr Woodleigh soft.

Next the sticks. I found the tomato stake sticks were not robust enough and were flexing a bit. So got some broom handles - 1.25 inch I think - & that solve another problem.

Next - actual shooting. Here are the groups. They are a good start. All loads are on the same vertical plane. The 340 & 350 gr are on same POI & could be used on Buffalo or longer range PG.

I need to now practice and shrink those groups to 2 inches at 100 meters.

I would appreciate comments on these groups.

I would recommend working with loads on the bench in order to guarantee accuracy of at least 1.5".

Shooting from a bench doesn't need to be painful. Use a slip-on shoulder pad, leather jacket, folded towel, or whatever makes things comfortable. After the loads are settled on, you can work on the sticks.

You are correct about needing solid sticks. The broom handles sound much better. Also remember to have something absorbing on the 'v' of the sticks. The rifle should not rest on anything solid. When I'm hunting in Africa I am usually wearing a soft hat. When getting in position for a shot I grab my hat and use it from resting my 'forearm' hand against a tree or stuffing the hat into the sticks. Personally, I prefer leaning against a tree but PH's don't usually think along those lines. African sticks usually have rubber innertube wrapped on the 'v', and you can test whether this affects your rifle or shooting.

2600fps with the 350 TTSX will certainly get the job done and still be huntable at 250 meters, which is a very long way in most of Africa. Ultimately, the accuracy nodes of the rifle would decide things for me.

One more caveat: I wouldn't let a particular range session spoil the shooting. Get plenty of dryfire practice and stop the 416 on a particular day if you ever sting the shoulder nerve. That happens with smaller calibre, too. When I start up shooting after a layoff of several months I typically generate some bruises. Those usually need a week of rest to be comfortable, but do not usually return for the season.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
A John Haviland article in the OCT-NOV 2013 HANDLOADER (#286) reviews the
Montana Rifle Company's Dangerous Game Rifle chambered for .416 Rigby, 24" barrel.

It is a good source with current lots of powder (assumed), and some good bullets, including some you might use,
and some good velociy and accuracy loads, FOR THAT RIFLE:



Note the factory load velocities.

Naki,

Looking at the article extract one might be led to believe the .416 Rigby was mostly a 1 1/2 to 3 MOA accuracy rifle except for the few pearls that demonstrated <1 MOA accuracy.

I don't believe you should be overly concerned with >1 1/2 MOA accuracy with the loads you're using when you've not developed the most accurate loading combinations for your particular rifle.

I recommend you do load development from the bench, as recommended by Tanz, and then use your most accurate loads from your shooting sticks. I believe you'll see a world of difference in your groups.

Thanks for your comments and info.

Capworld, could i please request you to send me the article in pdf format? I am not able to PM you.

Cheers. Much appreciated.

You have PM Naki...

These are the shooting sticks I have made up.

The foam rod works great.

Hi Naki,

I too have a CZ550 and got some advice from AR whilst messing round with .416 Rigby loads and realised mine were too mild. (94gr AR2213SC with 450gr Woodleighs). I used these on 2 trips to Zim for buff and they performed well. Could easily put another 4gr in these. 3 buff were one shot however so even if very mild they worked fine. This is the load Woodleigh recommended.

For my next trip I've settled on 94gr of AR2209 with the 400gr Barnes TSX and solids. About 2450fps. These still seem pretty mild but are plenty fast enough unless you want to shoot longer ranges. The recoil is also manageable. Most game won't notice the difference of a 100fps or so but your flinch might if you load them up...

I also tried 102gr of AR2213SC but that was compressed so I stuck with the AR2209.

Cheers

Daniel

Thanks to Capoward for the article. Thanks Daniel for the info - very similar to some of my loads.

Here are the targets from the CEB bullets i loaded up. I increased the load to 100 gr for the 350 gr solids & 102 grains for the 325 Safari raptors. Velocities were just a bit above the TSX load.

The great part is that point of Impact is the same for all 4 bullets!

Hi Nakihunter
You do seem to be making progress. I am lucky that I'm self employed and own a farm so I can work up loads and trial them allmost when ever I want.These big bores are addictive I started with the E Paton 450-3 1/4" then the CZ 550 .458 Win Mag and recently found a Brno 602 375 H&H that needed to come home with me.The Brno is going to come along on a helicopter fly in and out trip in a week for Sika and Red Deer for five days.The previous owner took the Brno to Africa twice so it should know what to do.
Keep up the good work.
John

Great news John.

Do you shoot Big bores with anyone else? We should get a few people together and have a shoot.

I am self employed too & shoot on a mate's farm but not that often.

Yes those 602s are fine rifles. About 15 years ago i was offered one for $800 & let it go!

Nakihunter
I dont shoot big bores with anyone else.My son has a CZ 550 in 375 H&H but he is in Aussie.
I know of one other 9.3 x 62 but he is not keen on shooting it, too much kick. .300 win mag is the biggest with the guys I know, with most using 223 243 708 or 308 how boring are my shooting friends?.They think I am just a tad mad.

Naki, as said try off the bench with plenty of padding. This will get you zeroed and show how accurate these rifles are. Five into better than an inch when using a proper bench set up and plenty of padding. Then go to the sticks. I use home made sticks like yours for practice but have some Bogpod tri sticks comming. Way lighter, easier to set up and what the PH that I saw at UME were using.

John

LOL! Sounds familiar! My friend who owns the farm, he shoots a 9.3X62. He also has 2 double rifles in 6.5X52R & 9X57R - not big bores.

There are some Kiwis on AR who do a big bore shoot. It would be great to shoot with them.

Congratulations ,very good ,rifle we use Brnos in my hunting operation since 20 years ago ,we have 416 ,308 ,223,375hyh and 458 all of the works perfect and we abused them .
Besides guiding we teach rifle shooting and they are rented by many many shooters NEVER HAVE A PROBLEM .

quote:

We should get a few people together and have a shoot

I agree! you guys set it up and I'll bring a couple of 375s and my 470NE. I'm based in Auckland but travel around a fair bit.


Cheers
H

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
I had a good day at the range today.

I have been getting a bit concerned with my ability to shoot well with the 416 Rigby. No steady on the sticks. Concerned that I was pulling too many shots. Concerned that I might not do my job right on the hunt etc. My first big bore .....

Naki it looks like you are having fun with your reloading and shooting and that's really great. I note your concerns above though and would hate to see this get worse mindful that in the excitement of a hunt you would be less likely to be able to control those concerns you are having. As we know recoil is not usually felt when shooting live but i know from experience of others that once a flinch is developed it happens even when shooting animals.

Have you thought of trying to get some cast projectiles. Was shooting some in my 404 at the weekend using 25.0grs Unique under some of Von Gruff's 350 grainers (I also have my own 400gr mould). These were so sweet to shoot, easy on the cost and easy on cases. This load is up to factory POI in my rifle and could shoot all day. Just makes it so easy to practice standing, off sticks or just off the bench and really nail trigger control, loading the magazine etc.I would happily use cast all the time and then only full power loads to check sighting and take animals. Can boost these cast loads up to just under 2000fps with another powder and charge and then they more or less duplicate the feel of a big bore on the shoulder.

I know you are experimenting around with different bullet weights at the moment, but shooting plenty of cast in between might just set you up better. Would hate to see you 'go off' the 416 as I think this will be a great gun for your safari (coming up in 2015?).

Just my thoughts.

eagle27

Thank mate. I am definitely not giving up on the 416 Rigby now. Dropping the velocity to 2400 fps for the 400 gr & 2700 for 350 gr was the trick. I am now getting good groups off sticks and the recoil is not bothering me.

Flinching is not a habit (yet!). Last time at the range I pulled 1 shot out of about 30. With the hotter loads that would have been 7 out of 30.

I did think of cast bullets but I am not sure ... I wonder if cleaning the barrel become a chore??? I have plenty of wheel weight & even a commercial furnace. I could get the mould from Oz.

Welcome Aboard The Big Bore Express

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
eagle27

Thank mate. I am definitely not giving up on the 416 Rigby now. Dropping the velocity to 2400 fps for the 400 gr & 2700 for 350 gr was the trick. I am now getting good groups off sticks and the recoil is not bothering me.

Flinching is not a habit (yet!). Last time at the range I pulled 1 shot out of about 30. With the hotter loads that would have been 7 out of 30.

I did think of cast bullets but I am not sure ... I wonder if cleaning the barrel become a chore??? I have plenty of wheel weight & even a commercial furnace. I could get the mould from Oz.

Naki, when using gas checked bullets I don't have any increase in barrel cleaning chores. I just use CRC on a rag wrapped around a brush as i do for all my rifle cleaning and the bore stays clean. I made a bronze brush for the 404 out of a 12 gauge very fine and soft brush by snipping down the bristles with scissors and this screws to my strong 30 cal PH yellow rod. Every so often I'll give the barrel a couple of swipes with the brush and CRC.

Even though the light (squib) loads using Unique or some other fast burning powder only produce velocities around 1500 fps, it is just good to shoot a lot down range without hurting the pocket and of course so easy on the barrel and cases too, let alone the shoulder. Personally I think you would get very comfortable and competent in speed loading, handling and shooting your 416 with cast and the transition to full power loads for the field will be a breeze.