has anyone shortened the neck of the 500 ahr and fireformed to get the original shoulder back as to make a 500 jeffery without the rebate?

is it possible for jeffery owners to do this with just a bolt face opening?

just wanted to see if it can or has been done.

with all the rebate pissings i thought it was a valid answer to a question.

the original 404 jeffery had a rebate but that was corrected...why not the 500???

you can use the 50 AHR brass and a jeffery die....

the 500 jeffe is too fat for "What you get" on the feedings.. single stck is the EASIEST, though not only, way to get there

upi?

has it been thought of or done?

wouldnt it make your life a lot easier in the feeding dept?

If you want easy, go 500 A-sq.

I still don't understand why folks get hung up on belt or no belt. A good design will be easy to put into practice, and there are good belted designs, as well as poor beltless designs.

Easy is good, and 500A-sq or varients is the big winner when you balance available brass, actions and the work to put it together.

/

alf, where does the brass come from?

paul, i guess it would appeal to someone who wants to shoehorn it in a smaller action and have no rebate...

the belt is a matter of preference

I pretty sure the only source for Harald Wolf's .500 Jeffery improved ammunition in from him. I believe he has it manufactured and loaded to his specs by Wolfgang Romney.

Check out his website.

HatariTimes

Why bother? The .500AHR is probably the best designed .500 Jeffery varient out there. The long neck supports the bullet better and provies a little more case capacity while improving the rebated rim situation. Brass is readily available from AHR and 100 cases will last your lifetime. Trust me, without a single stack mag it still feeds like crap. With one, no problem.-Rob

There is absolutely no good reason to use a small action on a 50. To be shootable the gun has to weigh excess of 10#'s. In the days that parent actions were few and far between, these approaches made some sense. Now, the cost of a parent action is a small percentage of building a true big bore, ie something that'll work reliably and worth having. CZ-550's aren't the best action around, but for the $, the most sensible place to start.

Who is to say how easy it will be to get oddball brass in the future? 460W brass won't be a problem to get. Proprietary brass is already hard to get, and that won't improve in the future.

I've played the oddball game enough, practicality rules the roost. 600 gr @ 2400 fps is the same whether you use a 500 A-sq, 500 J (or varient) 505 Gibbs (or varient) or something else.

Paul H,

Amen to that!

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Paul H,

Amen to that!

a double amen and a hail the 50 AR! (ar, not ahr.. heh)

jeffe

the 50 a.r. will be better in terms of brass and price but i thought it was a neet idea for jeffery lovers who dont want to deal with the rebate issue...

go 50 a.r.! (whenever jeff has the time to build it)

/

I may be missing something, but the military (the one group of shooters that absolutely cannot afford a misfeed) hasn't ever done a 20th century cartridge with a belt on it have they? I would suggest that pretty much covers DGR rifles with belted or beltless cartridges and the relative desirability, eh?

regards,

Rich

interesting point rich...

go team no belts!

rich...what do you think of the 500 a.r.???

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=962104034#962104034

I don't know where this urban legend about Belts and misfeeds comes from, but anybody with any real experience knows its pure crap. As far as the military goes, sorry but 300win mag sniper rifles built on M700 Remingtons by MACSOG personnel along with 30-06's were US Army Ranger issued in Vietnam. They were built because certain really experienced sniper teams became very disappointed with the long range capabilities of the 30-06. The 300 win mag rifles would not go subsonic at long range like the 30-06 and .308 wins did and had way better accuracy. The Seal Teams used a few of them also. I Had one, used one, NO MISFEEDS! The military doesn't need a belted cartridge for its purposes ie. smaller and lighter is better( consistency across various weopons platforms and cost, belted cases cost more) except for long range sniper rifles it has absolutely nothing to do with the bogus issue of misffeding. I'll repeat myself again, if you have a magazine with the proper dimensions, even a double stack, a belted cartridge will feed just as well as a non-belted cartridge. Math is Math. If you take a magazine designed for a non-belted cartridge and stick belted cartridges in it WITHOUT Modifying it, then yes it can cause feeding problems. So will longer/fatter non-belted cartridges. If its dimensioned correctly there will be no feeding problems. If you don't like belts, fine with me, but lets stick to the facts. -Rob

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Quite frankly I do not know what this big hoopla is about the 500 Jeffery. If you want to claim you are shooting a 500 jeffery then it has to be a 500 Jeffery, not a 500 whatever or better or worse.

I have two rifles in this caliber warts and all ie rebated rim in a staggered box Mauser magazine and both shoot as they are supposed to. They feed flawlesly for what it is worth. Does it actually kill any better than a 404 or a Lott, not what I can see dead is dead. If you want to see pure knock down, smack em to the floor shoot a 460 Weatherby with factory softs but that is another story, that 26 inches of one inch waterpipe with the KDF brake on the end is simply not practical and balance is the shits. At one time I had no less than 3 of them.

Are they ( the 500 ) anything special? well one is cause it's an original but for the rest keep em cause to me they are not worth a shit in practical terms purely cause the recoil is way more than I care for. If you fire the first shot and whatever you shot at is not stone dead and charging then well take your chances cause the next shot is likely to be worse off. With that kind of recoil it is very difficult to keep shots accurate and quick.

Even the big bore gurus right here on AR have admitted that at full tilt one cannot discharge to many shots with these rifles in an afternoon and not feel the effects.

I have way more faith in my 404's, simply cause they are accurate, soft shooting and I can accurately get more shots off one after the other than the 500.

Alf, if you should ever walk in on my campfire, the beers are all on me.

quote:

20th century cartridge with a belt on it?

It is not a small arms cartridges, but the 30x113mm shells for the Hughes M230 Chain Gun uses a belted case.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I may be missing something, but the military (the one group of shooters that absolutely cannot afford a misfeed) hasn't ever done a 20th century cartridge with a belt on it have they? I would suggest that pretty much covers DGR rifles with belted or beltless cartridges and the relative desirability, eh?

What about the 300 Win Mag?? Seen many done up. Most shoot the anemic 308 anyway and are not into the big boys until 50cal. No belt on it but not commercial at all. Most of the big game in africa were shot with cartridges one would not choose now, 450-400/ 470NE/ etc. But quite a bit of game was shot with the 375/ 300 H&H. so you are not actually correct. Not many snipers face their game at 50 yards and the game is much quicker and stronger than they and can kill them well after they have had a lethal round put in them. Apples vs. Oranges.
One must be capable of beaing able to see the difference in shooting men and shooting animals. They definitely are not the same. I think the 500 Jeffery is just fine the way it is. Could it have been done better, perhaps it could have but we are talking 50 years+ later. Harrold Wolf made up his rifles to shoot a non rebated round. Is it necessary? no Is it desirable, Perhaps. For us that have a Jeffery, it is fine the way it is. As far as action size is concerned, The action size should be determined by the length of the loaded round not its circumfrance and etc. The standard Mauser action can and does comfortably house the Jeffery round where it will not handle the 505 Gibbs. For that you need a magnum action. I have had two Hoffman 404 Jeffery rifles and neither needed the length of the Mauser #20 action. Now days we can play mind games and can get a manufacturer to produce and magnum action with a really oversized bolt .750-.800 diameter to house the big rounds. None of the originals were done up that way so are we overdoing it a bit???/I think so. One can put a 7 rem mag round in a magnum Mauser action. Does it need to be there No!Would it be safer NO! Where does it all end? Are there rounds that hit harder than a 505 Gibbs/500Jeffery? I am sure , but is it really a benefit? NO.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Why bother? The .500AHR is probably the best designed .500 Jeffery varient out there. The long neck supports the bullet better and provies a little more case capacity while improving the rebated rim situation. Brass is readily available from AHR and 100 cases will last your lifetime. Trust me, without a single stack mag it still feeds like crap. With one, no problem.-Rob

Where do you buy the brass? Will it be available from that source in 20 years? What was the parent case? Since the 500 Jeffery at intended velocities is a low pressure round, 100-200 cases will last a very long time. If you buy good 500 Jeffery brass from Horneber it is more than good for a low pressure round so what is the benefit of "sstronger" brass? You guys want to take it too far. I shoot my Jeffery at 2200-2250 f/s and at that speed the pressure is under 45,000psi. Can I make it go faster hell yes but why?

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
Where do you buy the brass? Will it be available from that source in 20 years? What was the parent case? Since the 500 Jeffery at intended velocities is a low pressure round, 100-200 cases will last a very long time. If you buy good 500 Jeffery brass from Horneber it is more than good for a low pressure round so what is the benefit of "sstronger" brass? You guys want to take it too far. I shoot my Jeffery at 2200-2250 f/s and at that speed the pressure is under 45,000psi. Can I make it go faster hell yes but why?

It's a new design inspired by the Jeffe. It's available from AHR. It's availability in 20 years? Who knows, but if you load it as advertised they'll lost longer than the Jeffe cases. They're loaded to same pressure as the Jeffe but give higher velocities.

the 500 ahr is similar to the 50 a.r. ( minus a 0 and an h )but in a std action. 2150 in a std action is great and does not need to be 12 lbs.

go team a.r.!

brass will be relatively cheap (compared to ahr/a2/500nitro) and be avaliable as long as there is lapua and rigby.

I totally agree with ALF, if you want a 500 Jeffrey, then get one, complete with rebated rim and short neck. It is not the best designed case, but it is a historically interesting cartridge. Bastardizing the case with limited availability brass makes it no longer a 500 Jeffrey, and has no benefits over the more common and cheaper 460 W brass.

If the whole exercise is a cheap 50 to play with, then the only option is 460 based, both for the cheap brass and gunsmithing.

Folks honestly interested in building a 50 will head the advice. Those keeping with all the what ifs aren't serious about building such rifles. Figure on caughing up $2k to get a 500A-s running, and God help you if you really want a 500 Jeffrey, as there is no reason to build one unless it's a classically built nice custom big bore.

There is little real need for any of the big 50's. If you are going to own one let it be the real thing. Mine is a converted 1935 Chilean contract Orberndorf Mauser with PME bottom metal. It is done off an original Jeffery pattern and does ooze nostalgia. All of the others will be seen as wildcats or mophs. The cost of brass and dies is about the same factoring in the resale of the real thing verses a wildcat the extra $200.00 is virtually nothing. I got mine from a named maker for a little more money than it would have cost in a 404 Jeffery, but not as much as you might think. it is a well balanced piece and weighs in at 10.5 lbs. I see no need for any cartridge that moves a 550gr. bullet faster than 2150-2200 f/s. If you do start with the 50 BMG case in a huge action and wrap in anything but wood and you won't be using it in Africa anyway as it will be seen as a military weapon and therefore banned. It is a matter of keeping everything in balance. Can you carry the thing all day on a hunt, will the bullet at the velocity penetrate and shock enough to kill your intended target, finally can you control that beast while shooting it to deliver two controlled rounds in 10 second intervals? Most cannot so if you want faster and heavier go for it.

another poor mans 50 is the 50-110 on the browning blr...525@up to 2200 (i know someone who has done 2300 but not reccomended)

no class but will git-er-done.

I have shot one of the 50-110 in a lever action and that steel but plate really left a mark. I think it hurt a whole lot more than the 505 Gibbs or the 500 Jeffery as it had a narrow butstock and low comb. OUCH!

the blr is much better suited, not the old school one but the pistol grip one.



you can run the preasures much higher since it is a bolt action with a lever

I believe it was Ronald Reagan who said "...the problem with democrats isn't that they lie a lot,
it's that they know wo much that just isn't true...".

The myth about US Army Rangers in Vietnam using 700's chambered for 300WM is just that. I served from 1969-1971 in "G" Company and Company2/Co G 75th Infantry and never saw or heard of anything other than 308 and 30-06 boltguns being used. I went to our association and nobody there posted having seen one either.

That said, a hundred or so belted magnums is not
saying much for belts on real serious usage rifles. The free worlds armies are not issuing many rifles not chambered for 308 or 223. The "other guys" are mostly 7.62x39, the new 22cf, or 7.62x54 rimmed cases.

regards,

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
the blr is much better suited, not the old school one but the pistol grip one.



you can run the preasures much higher since it is a bolt action with a lever

Fired once and sold quickly...

(You know I'm just givin' you a hard time, right?)