quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
Can't you wound a lion with a badly placed 458 as well as a 338? Shot placement is most important I would say. And the PH is gonna have a 500 nitro to back you up right?

I suppose this will never be settled. Why is it that when speaking of the comparison between 2 rifles, the comparison is ALWAYS that the larger caliber weapon's shot is misplaced and the smaller is always a perfect hit. Again, a well placed 458 is going to be more effective than a well placed or badly placed 338. To suggest on THIS forum, that a client cannot handle a big bore rifle is pure folly!!

And my personal pet peeve ... Relying on the PH to get you out of trouble is asking for it in a big way. What happens if the PH's rifle or ammo malfunctions? What happens if the PH misses? What happens if the PH falls down and is unable to shoot? etc. The PH may well have a 500NE to back me up but I'm damn sure not going to rely on it to get me out of trouble. I'll do my best to take care of that part myself with a large caliber rifle, that I know well, and have learned to shoot well. I rely on the PH to put me onto the game, advise me of which animal to shoot, and manage the hunt. I don't rely on him to shoot us out of trouble when the butter gets thin.

quote:

To suggest on THIS forum, that a client cannot handle a big bore rifle is pure folly!!

????????? Maybe in your case that is true but it has certainly not been my experience.
When it comes to hunting dangerous game assumptions are the mother of most screw ups

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:

quote:

To suggest on THIS forum, that a client cannot handle a big bore rifle is pure folly!!

????????? Maybe in your case that is true but it has certainly not been my experience.
When it comes to hunting dangerous game assumptions are the mother of most screw ups

Seriously Phil, there are more than just a few guys on this forum that know how to handle large caliber rifles. Hell, after all, your handle is 458Win!!

In my experience it's about 1/2 & 1/2, that's why we try to get clients about as close as safely possible to the big bears. Most shot placement problems come from shooting to far up in the nothing zone!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
Can't you wound a lion with a badly placed 458 as well as a 338? Shot placement is most important I would say. And the PH is gonna have a 500 nitro to back you up right?

I suppose this will never be settled. Why is it that when speaking of the comparison between 2 rifles, the comparison is ALWAYS that the larger caliber weapon's shot is misplaced and the smaller is always a perfect hit. Again, a well placed 458 is going to be more effective than a well placed or badly placed 338.

Todd,

I couldn't agree with you more.

It has been my experience that those who are inaccurate with big bores are equally so with smaller calibers.

Those that are accurate with smaller calibers are as accurate with larger bores (again in my experience) - at least for that first shot. And I believe we would all agree that's the shot that counts most.

The folks who ask me "Can I take another shot?" are the folks of whom I speak.

Those that say "OK, thanks, that's enough" are the people who should either stick to smaller bores or need to take a course with Rob (or other big bore instructor) or find a big bore that fits better. Perhaps the latter point should be first because proper fit is paramount and necessary for proper form.

Like you I do not believe that that using a smaller caliber will magically make a marksman out of an otherwise poor shot.

Use the largest caliber you can shoot accurately, repeatedly and recharge quickly under duress.

I agree back with you Paul. And to my statement earlier, THIS is the "BIG BORE" forum of AR. That being said, I would think a large portion of the guys interested in this part of AR, the "BIG BORE" forum, are interested enough in big bores to have spent the range time necessary to learn to shoot big bore rifles without being scared of them.

Of course I understand that many who own them are not always proficient with large caliber rifles. But I would bet that most of the guys here in the "BIG BORE" forum of AR get a bit tired of the constant mantra of "A well placed shot with a 22LR is better than a poorly placed shot with a Howitzer". Some need to realize that many shooters handle these big guns with aplomb and just because many can't shoot them well doesn't mean that none can!! And if there is a collection of guys who can shoot big bores well, you'll probably find them here; in the "BIG BORE" forum!! Know what I mean Vern?

Shooting a big bore successfully boils down to the three major components.

Practise, practise, practise.

When I say practise, I don't mean to sit behind a bench or stand behind sticks and trying to shoot the smallest group.

I don't mean to aim for 10 sec. at stationary target 15 yards away and than jerk the trigger either.

If you have a shot from a big bore and take whole afternoon to recover to have another shot and claim " that you can shoot such and such calibre with no problem" it will become a real ill problem here.

This is not a practise that will ever help you to get out of a trouble.

I practise all big bore shooting as if it was a shotgun situation.

I do not need to, nor I want to know if I can improve my 1.5" 3 shot groups from a bench with .460Wea with peep sights at 100 yards.

All I want to know is if I can improve and put all 3 shots into 4-5" group at 100 yards off hand in less than 5-6 sec.

Put sand or piss into an empty water bottle than throw it into the air and hit it before it lands or stops on the ground.

If it becomes too easy, I try the same from an empty chamber, meaning that I throw the bottle first and than I have to cycle the bolt to load the cartridge into the chamber and shoot.

It is fun, it is exciting and never ending usefull practise.

Pyzda

quote:

Put sand or piss into an empty water bottle

I'll have to think about that!

quote:

Originally posted by waterrat:

quote:

Put sand or piss into an empty water bottle

I'll have to think about that!

Yep! Things that make you go Hmmmmmm!! Sand or Piss. Hmmmmm!!

Sorry Waterrat, the way that looks appears to be your quote. Actually it's Pyzda's quote.

You wimps, I use my hands...


(Referencing Mahina's line in "The Ghost and the Darkness")

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by waterrat:

quote:

Put sand or piss into an empty water bottle

I'll have to think about that!

Yep! Things that make you go Hmmmmmm!! Sand or Piss. Hmmmmm!!

Sorry Waterrat, the way that looks appears to be your quote. Actually it's Pyzda's quote.

Not really-
was completely understandable

quote:

Originally posted by waterrat:

quote:

Put sand or piss into an empty water bottle

I'll have to think about that!

Waterrat

If you have to think about to decide between a sand or a yellow piss just to add weigh to a plastic bottle, maybe a wifes handful of golden jewelry will do a better job. LOL

With me the size of the gun never was an issue.

Pyzda

I'd rather use water so I don't get piss all over myself lol.
Soda cans might be better for that practice. You can have fun telling the story at the recycling center
I like the idea of three zip lines and a milk jug filled with water on each. Charging dangerous water jugs.

Boom stick

That was funny, zip line is perfect, but watch this video on You tube. That's is even funnier

"Lion Overpowers Man After Getting Shot Youtube"

( 1 min.11 Seconds of a disorganised panic)

Sand or piss may sound funny to some but here water is a gold to us.

6 months without a rain will make you think twice before you'll waste a drop.

Pyzda