I have a PH action on order from Montana Rifle Company. I have been trying to figure out what to do with it when I get it. It will have a Rigby bolt face. The action is really too big for Jeff's .500 AR. A .500 A-Square would work but I already have a .500 Jeffery so I was thinking maybe something other than a fifty. How about a .585 AHR? Will a .585 AHR work? What size bolt face do you need for a .585 AHR? How long is a loaded .585 AHR? Any help would be appreciated.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
I have a PH action on order from Montana Rifle Company. I have been trying to figure out what to do with it when I get it. It will have a Rigby bolt face. The action is really too big for Jeff's .500 AR. A .500 A-Square would work but I already have a .500 Jeffery so I was thinking maybe something other than a fifty. How about a .585 AHR? Will a .585 AHR work? What size bolt face do you need for a .585 AHR? How long is a loaded .585 AHR? Any help would be appreciated.

A 585 AHR will be perfect
I ordered the .648 bolt face and that is the one you would want.
Overall length of a loaded 585AHR is 3.68-3.74" depending on the bullet you use.

Here is your 585AHR next to a 45/70


Hope that helps

Thanks Doc.

the 585 is the 600 OK, 3" necked down, no other changes

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
the 585 is the 600 OK, 3" necked down, no other changes

I guess I should have mentioned that

Yes the .585 AHR is just my old .585/.600OK. Why dont you do the .600OK? Its way more cartridge!-Rob

Rob:

Conventional wisdom seems to suggest that you get better penetration with the 585 and the guns can be built a bit lighter. I also like the fact that the .585 has a pronounced neck. What do you think?

Dave- Conventional wisdom is wrong. A .620 bullet of the right construction, like my copper cup point bore riders will provide the same or better penetration than any .585. known to man. Crap, mine has shot through 6ft of solid oak log and kept on going. If you need more penetration than that you better be hunting TANKS. Why do you think a .585/.600 provides any advantage in gun weight? I'm not tracking that one at all. No the neck isn't an advantage either. It makes the feeding more problematic and the brass doesn't last as long. In my opinion the .585/.600 is inferior to the .600OK. With 750 gr bullets the .600Ok will actually exceed the .585/.600 because it has a little more case volume. I've been saying this since I designed the cartridge. In any case, if thats what you want go for it.-Rob

I have been toying with idea of building a 577 rifle and I appreciate the oportunity to see that 585 ahr. I have no real opinion or decision just a few impressions. FWIW.

1. I think I agree if I was going to use the big OK rebated and belted case. I would want the full 623 bullet. Brass and bullets are available. For me, I like to take just one step up from 600 grain 50 cal to 750 grain 585. Later look at 900 gr 600 or better yet a 1000 grain 700. If you want nutty braggin woppin big,,,... heck go 700! But is that practical today. Is a non rebated design and brass available for a 700 in the PH?

2. For a belted 577, i really like the looks of Ed Hubel 585 in 3 inch. For the mega shooters the 3.25 inch might take better advantage of the long PH action. But we need brass. These can be staggered in the magazine and use same bolt face as 505 gibbs. sweet! No rebate.

3. For a shoulder headspace, I like the 577 Trex which corrects the poor design compromise (IMHO) of the Nyanti (sp).

Have you thought about bachlorette No2?



505 gibbs, 585 HE 3.25 case same bolt face same OAL

I am one of those guys who likes having a variety of calibers built on the same case.

I know the designer and inventor (the guy with the NOBOZO avatar) took his 600 and necked it way down with good success. In fact, among my future imaginings is a 600OK necked down to .510 (again, RGB has been there done that).

I dont think you can go wrong with either the 600OK (original flavor) or any of its offspring especially if it has been "commercialized" as the 585AHR has by American Hunting Rifles - from whom you can get a custom-built rifle at a very good price, properly headstamped brass, bullets (Kodiak softs and their excellent X-Bullet) and CH4D dies.

There are loads of bullets in both diameters - from commercial vendors such as Woodleigh, Kodiak, Barnes and Hawk as well as all sorts of custom bullets from Robgunbuilder, Macifej and GSCustom as well as others of which I am not aware.

I love both of these calibers but I did get the 600OK for myself. Look at a previous post I made on this subject with a few other thoughts.

Good luck Dave and you just cant go wrong either way.

Paul

I can do all the brass for my 700H any
would ever need, and it is very slightly
rebated.Not any problem feeding.
I got it in a PH and just got it feeding.
Feeding is fine from the mag box I set up.
On my 585 I got some cases to get the first
guys started and a run of cases will get the rest.
We got reamers and dies already available.
Once the case man starts with tooling,we have
cases in 2-3 months. We've been years waiting
for actions. Look how long it took on barrels
and brass on many other projects we all have done.
And as Rob says, belted straight cases last much
longer whether 600 OK, 585HE, 550MAG, 700HE.
And my 585 feeds in PH just fine.Feeds in
Enfield and BBK fine with mag work and any
other gun set up for Gibbs case.And ours is a way
to do it for much less. Others good priced guns,
even though they are good value for the bucks, are
still way too high for me and most folks.
Mine is an economical way to do a 585.
I don't have the bucks in all my stuff,
that a fancy, 1st class, DG rifle in 585 cost.Ed

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
I can do all the brass for my 700H any
would ever need, and it is very slightly
rebated.Not any problem feeding.
I got it in a PH and just got it feeding.
Feeding is fine from the mag box I set up.
On my 585 I got some cases to get the first
guys started and a run of cases will get the rest.
We got reamers and dies already available.
Once the case man starts with tooling,we have
cases in 2-3 months. We've been years waiting
for actions. Look how long it took on barrels
and brass on many other projects we all have done.
And as Rob says, belted straight cases last much
longer whether 600 OK, 585HE, 550MAG, 700HE.
And my 585 feeds in PH just fine.Feeds in
Enfield and BBK fine with mag work and any
other gun set up for Gibbs case.And ours is a way
to do it for much less. Others good priced guns,
even though they are good value for the bucks, are
still way too high for me and most folks.
Mine is an economical way to do a 585.
I don't have the bucks in all my stuff,
that a fancy, 1st class, DG rifle in 585 cost.Ed

Can't argue with Ed's successes either! His is another "585" on my list of "nexts".

No such thing as too many good choices.

To me the value of a neck is a place to set a shoulder to headspace off of. Period. If the case already has a belt what good is the neck other than a place to hold the bullet. The $$$&&@@585 Nyati uses a neck and shoulder and caused countless folks including me endless grief. The .600Ok with it's simple straight wall ended that problem for all time. Depending on the reamer used, the same thing could happen with the .585/.600 if you don't use a AHR reamer. -Rob

Quote from Rob
"To me the value of a neck is a place to set a shoulder to headspace off of. Period. If the case already has a belt what good is the neck other than a place to hold the bullet."

Exacto! I dont like the idea of mixing belts AND shoulders.

From what I gather feeding is mostly a smithing issue and then it is just a matter of taste and philosophy.

I like the 585 AHR/RLG without the belt.

It would be the easiest to form and should be tied in theory for the easiest to get to feed along with the 585 HE/577 Express 3" (3" 585 HE) with only a small amount of rebate.

The 400 whelen works so there is enough shoulder there to skip the belt for better feeding. 17.5 thou per side.

Zip off the belt, use existing dies and make a new reamer. File off the belt for factory ammo

The HE and debelted 585 AHR/RLG would have the same amount of rebate

Boomie- Removing the belt creates a long version of the$%^$^& .585 NYATI. DONT GO THERE! There are things that may look good to you but flat don't work cause you've never been there and done that!I have! I put that belt there and got rid of the shoulder for very good practical reasons.-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
To me the value of a neck is a place to set a shoulder to headspace off of. Period. If the case already has a belt what good is the neck other than a place to hold the bullet. -Rob

Good point Rob.

Because of some health problems, I think my future hunting will be somewhat limited. Now, I just have to decide if I want to shell out the money for this project for the occasional bison hunt and to shoot trees and buckets and stuff. I have to admit that a .600 does sound way cool.... I also have to admit that I have pissed away money on way dummer stuff than this.

Switch barrel, then?

Jeffe- has a great point. Have AHR build you a switch barrel gun. Basically thats what my .600OK No.1 is. Make a .499/.600Ok at the same time. That way you can have both. They will use the exact same barrel contours etc. Set screw to lock the barrel in place and you can shoot either cartridge.
As far as pissing away money on guns, I HAVE NO EQUAL! With that said, I've had more pure fun out of the .600Ok than anything else with the 12GaFH coming in a strong second.-Rob

One PO Ackley once told me (in a visit to his shop in SLC)that there were three pretty good ways to headspace a cartridge.
1. rim
2. belt
3. shoulder

He said you only need one. Two is one too many, and three is an invitation to disaster. The rimmed case is THE solution to double or single rifles, either of the other two is great in a bolt gun.

Two years ago, Boomie and Ed did the 3" .577BME. I built one and it works. So does my 550 Gibbs. There are three or four great designs floating on AR right now. Choices are great, and someday the PH action will accomodate all of them properly.

Rich