I have been to the range since and tried the advice from the previous post needless to say I wasn't branded for the third time ! I got a friend to video me shooting as was suggested and some of the shots were VERY close to my eye brow. I am not sure how to post the video onto "you tube" but here is a picture as the rifle fires. In the video it looks as if my body moves back with the recoil but my head stays in the same position With the rifle moving back and my head staying still, well need I say more....




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9fbo-9Dg24

I don't know what "they" tell you, but putting a scope on anything more than a 375 is asking for it. And a 375 can/will smack you at some point if not always conscious of the potential hazard.

I only brace myself enough to keep from getting knocked down by the recoil. I'm goin' with the flow!

Different strokes for different folks.

Sir,
your stock is a bit too short...3/4 of an inch would make a world of difference

with a properly fitted stock, it's nothing to have a scoped 416, 404, 458, 470, 500, 550, 585, or 600 ... Even Boddington with his ultralight 416s has a scope.. every time... regardless of what some other posters might opine

I don't recall your previous threads but it looks like you have too much scope on there, and, the eye relief is not enough. I have a CZ in 416 Rigby with a Leupold 1.5-4x I believe. It has plenty of eye relief and I have never been dinged, even off the bench.
Peter.

It does look as if you LOP is a little short.

"I'm not an expert, but one of the reasons to get injured by a scope is that, when you shoot, your head doesnt't "follow" the upper torso. So, I would suggest you to slightly increase the contact between your cheek and the stock....."

That was my humble advice 2 weeks ago; besides other authoritative suggestions, I would add that the "negative angle" cheekpiece (sorry, I can't explain better) can be a part of the problem. Under recoil, your head loses contact with the stock and tends to keep still, while the upper torso moves back. Those "negative angle" cheeckpieces are good for limiting the slap on your cheek, but can increase the problem you are experiencing.

I use a 1.5-5x Leupold IR scope on my Rigby. I mounted it so that the full circle was just visible through the scope when I naturally shouldered the rifle. In other words, I made sure the maximum eye relief was available on a relatively long eye relief scope.

Rifle has been to Africa twice. On its last trip there was no time and I ended up snap shooting a Buff ... no time to fuss with the rifle position at all. Good thing the planning and practice was thorough. Result was a dead Buff and no damage to me.

Re Read my post in the original thread.
Move the scope farther foward, and as stated above place your face on the stock Hard.
Your shoulder should be firmly locked, do not relax it as soon as you pull the trigger.

Also your feet are too far appart.
Keep them closet together, bend the front leg and lean into it alittle, placing @65% of your weight on the foward leg.

Your front arm should have the elbow pointing as straight to the ground as possible and be pulling the rifle into your shoulder. This adds the weight of your upper body to the weight of the gun.
Grip the pistol frip firm and do not relax it until after the recoil, this helps maintain the firm shoulder to keep the rifle from pusing your shoulder back.

Put peep sights on that rig and be done with it. If you feel like you cant shoot far enough with the peep sights then stalk closer. I have a hard enough time concentrating on the shot, why introduce eye-brow cutting into the picture.

IMO NE 450 No2 has shot a big bore rifle before. What he is telling you is correct, the feet being to far apart lets you rock more, and tends to make you crawl up on the stock. There is no reason you can't use a scope on a .416, I shoot one once a week. I like to mount them far enough forward that is just get the full view on the lowest power, I may have to slide forward a little at the highest power, but that isn't a problem. Lean forward, pull back with your left, pull down some with the right. The stock is also too short, look at the angle of your right arm, it should approximate 90 degrees you are probably 70 degrees, and I assume you are fairly tall and long armed. The big boomers will teach you to use correct rifle mounting, and one of the things I have noticed is my shooting is often more consistent with the big ones because I am always careful with my technique. In other words, I can get sloppy with a .243, I do not get sloppy with the .416. You know what happens when you get sloppy habits shooting a big bore. After looking at the picture again, you also need to square up to the rifle a bit, put it into the pocket on your shoulder not the shoulder bone. It will seem to kick not nearly so bad. You will probably square up a bit naturally if you get your feet closer together, lean forward slightly with almost all the weight on your front(left) foot.

Look a 4 inch eye relief scope on a .416 Rigby is NOT A PROBLEM. YOUR POSITION IS. Don't listen to people with no valid experience. God knows ther are plenty of them! The problem is your stance and your crawling the stock because it doesnt fit you properly. I also think your not rocking with the gun but trying to oppose it. I also thinjk your head is coming off the stock and is not welded properly.
If I had ten minutes with you the problem would be over. -Rob

Your stance is a little wide. You definitely don't need your legs so far apart...feet about shoulder width apart usually works well. I think you'd benefit by "squaring up" just a little more to the shot.

I agree with the others that your stock is likely a little on the short side, and it looks like your creeping up on the scope a bit. Also looks like you are "blessed" with a long neck (I have one too...doesn't help in at all in this case!). More LOP and your scope mounted a little further forward would probably do the trick.

Without seeing video its hard to say, but you probably need to keep your torso a little "stiffer". Ie. don't allow your shoulder to go with the recoil...have your entire torso from the hips and lower back go with it.

I don't know if this will help, but here is some video of me shooting my 470 Mbogo with a scope mounted on it. It kicks almost 2x as hard as a 416 Rigby and you can see it doesn't come very close to my brow. Both shoulders move with the recoil as a unit...in otherwords, the recoil doesn't push my right shoulder back further than the left, which keeps my face away from the scope.

470 Mbogo - bench and offhand

Cheers,
Canuck

Scopes make a lot of sense on 416's for many applications but long, heavy ones are a problem and one shouldn't need much magnification on anything they need a 416 for.
I have used a 2 1/2 Leupold on my lightweight 458 Win now for twenty-five years and thousands of rounds and never had a scope cut. It also has a short pull ( 13 3/8") but the scope has a long eye relief is set far enough forward that even when I crawl the stock I don't get smacked.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
I don't recall your previous threads but it looks like you have too much scope on there, and, the eye relief is not enough. I have a CZ in 416 Rigby with a Leupold 1.5-4x I believe. It has plenty of eye relief and I have never been dinged, even off the bench.
Peter.

I have a Leupold 1.75-6 mounted. It also has a fairly good eye relief. I think the problem is me not the scope

Wildboar
I took your advice from the previous post about keeping tight contact between my cheek and stock and think this is one of the reasons it didn't happen again. I hear what you are saying about the "negative angle"

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Re Read my post in the original thread.
Move the scope farther foward, and as stated above place your face on the stock Hard.
Your shoulder should be firmly locked, do not relax it as soon as you pull the trigger.

N E 450 No2

I actually took the rifle to a gun smith whom told me the scope is already as far forward as it can go. (I thought it was just wanted to make sure I had done it correctly) I am using standard CZ mounts

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:
Your stance is a little wide. You definitely don't need your legs so far apart...feet about shoulder width apart usually works well. I think you'd benefit by "squaring up" just a little more to the shot.

I agree with the others that your stock is likely a little on the short side, and it looks like your creeping up on the scope a bit. Also looks like you are "blessed" with a long neck (I have one too...doesn't help in at all in this case!). More LOP and your scope mounted a little further forward would probably do the trick.

Without seeing video its hard to say, but you probably need to keep your torso a little "stiffer". Ie. don't allow your shoulder to go with the recoil...have your entire torso from the hips and lower back go with it.

I don't know if this will help, but here is some video of me shooting my 470 Mbogo with a scope mounted on it. It kicks almost 2x as hard as a 416 Rigby and you can see it doesn't come very close to my brow. Both shoulders move with the recoil as a unit...in otherwords, the recoil doesn't push my right shoulder back further than the left, which keeps my face away from the scope.

470 Mbogo - bench and offhand

Cheers,
Canuck

Thank-you Canuck,

Your post basically sums up well. Its all about the stance.

- Does one get other mounts to get the scope to sit more forward?
- What are the options to increase LOP which still looks good?

Your video does help - when I compare the two I am not "pivoting" on my hips. All the movement is in my shoulders, they are twisting and not coming back square."

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
If I had ten minutes with you the problem would be over. -Rob

All very valid Thanx

Send me a plane ticket and I am there !

Video link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9fbo-9Dg24

First shot looks OK, The second looks like it takes you by surprise. The gun recoils back and your head stays there!
Peter.

It's certainly not model like.Sometimes the cause could just be that the shooter is tired.Accumalative mental and physical fatigue could have an icredible effect on ones shooting abilities.

Looks to me like your LOP is a bit on the short side.

sorry for the repeat vid...(I know some of you guys have more vids of me shooting the other big boomers and would love to have coppies of them) but this is the best stance for me. This is the 550 Gibbs but my shoulder is forward more than your stance and I think a slip on recoil pad is an easy way to see if the lop is the issue for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTnCqaHJSEc

Shooting a big bore is an isometric exercise where every muscle in the body is tensed up except the triggerfinger.

Canuck has alluded to the proper technique.
You must bunch up the shoulder and chest muscles taking the recoil into a firm muscular pocket for the rifle butt. Both shoulder girdles and neck, and both upper extremities down to a firm hand grip must be locked in before firing, to make the entire body dampen the recoil movement of the rifle.

Letting one shoulder move back and the neck get stretched is asking for brachial plexopathy and cervical radiculopathy, as well as a need for plastic surgery of the forehead.

Had any electric shocks down into your trigger hand when you fire?

Gentlemen

When I shoot BIG guns I lean into the recoil. This makes the secund and third shot faster due to the fact that the barel does not come up so high and enables you to connect with your target faster for that secund shot.
It takes lots of practice LOTS.

Here are sone videos of me training rapid fire with the .500 Jeffery with 535 grn Woodleighs at 2411 fps.

Cheers,

André

As Will stated, I was always told not to stand in the Boxing stance , but to stand up straight, not to crawl the stock and go with the flow.
But on saying this I too have been hit by a Leopold on a 416Rig.

Move the gun off your should further into the meat of your chest. This isn;t a varmint rig. Leasn into it more. You also have the instruction requirements all wrong! You buy the plane ticket and my favorite booze and I do the instruction. You Pay! How much do stiches cost these days-Rob

Canuck that video is sweet!!

FWIW, I have a scope on my ZKK-602 .416RM, it is mounted as far back as the Brno bases and rings allow. I have never come close to being hit by it as far as I know, but then I am not aware of it at, when shooting, either off the bench or freehand.

your stance is entirely wrong, and you lop is short... you are going to get hit again...