How about the 416 Ruger? Any hope for it or are there better choices. I really like the short stubby Ruger Alaskan and want something bigger than a 375 but the cartridge just does not seem to be gaining commercial acceptance. Your thoughts and comments are appreciated.

if you can even find 3/8ths of an inch of advantage, buy one. If not, buy something you can get ammunition for like a Rigby.

Rich
DRSS

Its an outstanding round, and rich is just mad that he didn't invent it!

commerical acceptence? oh, you mean LIKE THE RIGBY, that took 80+ years to be commerically accepted?

Or the 460 weatherby, that basically has as of yet to be COMMERICALLY, a la RETAIL, chambered in a rifle outside of weatherby?

Or the 505 gibbs? that took 20 years longer than the 416 rigby to become COMMERICALLY viable? .. last check, ONLY CZ makes them on a >1 per month basis

Lets get the luddite crap straight .. if you invent wildcats, you should be darn happy with one makes it commerical

mr 450 dakota -- which does nothing better than the 460 weatherby

hey rich, seriously.. you tote the 505 gibbs as something magical, but don't load it as a gibbs ... you shoot a 450 dakota.. there's a TOTAL non-commerical round .. and a 550 gibbs?

Man, seriously, don't you see the hypocracy in that?

name one place in Africa where you can buy 416 or 375 rugger ammunition or rifles. At last count there are more 550 Gibbs being shot at the two Hoot-n-Shoots than the two rugger calibers combined. 450 Dakota is a saami round, and Jamison produced over 50,000 cases for Dakota over the last few years. It successful enough for Rigby to copy it. It has been to Zimbabwe and taken a nice Cape Buffalo, one more than the rugger crowd has posted.

416 outstanding; yeah some guy is out standing in a hay field in Texas waiting for an airdrop.
Your line of cartridges has more public acceptance than the ruggers...

the RCM line is a silly answer to a question nobody asked. Wayne Jacobson has probably built more 585, 600 and 700 AHRs than rugger has 416s.

Out of 30 or so PHs I spoke with at SCI Reno, none had ever seen one (rugger 416s).

Rich
DRSS

happy and content, knowing I have been to Africa, seen the Elephant in his haunts, and taken a Cape Buffalo with my 450 Dakota.

.. Mine is waiting for me in town . got laid off before I thot I would . But here is almost what it looks like and where it will be living when not in my hands

.
. It fits well on the ATV , and in a gun boot on a Super Cub .. It can be hot and dusty , ( the Rigby,s only perfect place ) or 50 below , it can rain ,snow, sleet or hail . And the Ruger will be right at home ... The Rigby , is Big .but no more powerful than the Ruger .. It's heavier .. Way more expensive .. .. Everyone seems to want some big ass rifle , as long as some hireling is going to lug it around for them .. The Ruger is designed for a man to have in his hands while he hunts ... Ammo is available in the Anchorage bowl , last thing I checked . Brass is readily available ..... Can,t wait till mine is in my lunch hooks !!!!!!! You can buy a 416 Ruger and a 375 Ruger for the price of one 416 Rigby ..

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:


Wayne Jacobson has probably built more 585, 600 and 700 AHRs than rugger has 416s.

Out of 30 or so PHs I spoke with at SCI Reno, none had ever seen one (rugger 416s).

Rich
DRSS

happy and content, knowing I have been to Africa, seen the Elephant in his haunts, and taken a Cape Buffalo with my 450 Dakota.

.
.
. Rich , you sure do get het up about this , ..
.The guys who will like the 416 Ruger are the same type who liked the 458 Win .. . Years and years after the 458 W had been killing ship loads of heavy and dangerous game , pinky finger guys like Ross Seyfeird .Were saying how bad it is ... Ya Right .. Check on the African Forum , and you will see where THE EARTH'S primary 416 Rigby user says that when he went to the 458 , for lion he used the 400 gr Trophy Bonded loads ..With complete satisfaction I think ... And It must have worked very well as he is still alive and healthy .........I wonder how many years it took the 458 Win to catch on ...????? Mr Jacobson may have built a number of expensive ,heavy pinky finger rifles , Who is going to pack the things around and actually HUNT with those rifles , as nice as they are ... The only reason there is a shortage of any ammo right now , is the demand is higher than it has ever been anf the ammo companies can,t keep up ...

I love the way my 416 Ruger handles and its accurate with the factory ammo, which is very well priced VS other 416 caliber ammo. I had no problem getting ammo for mine and I do believe this cartridge will sell well.

Jeff and Gumboot:

For the most part, I agree with Rich here. In a hunting rifle, I could never see much advantage in making cartridges "shorter". Just as I would never pick a .308 over a 30-06, I would never pick a .375 Ruger or a .416 Ruger over a .375 H&H or a .416 Rigby. The few tenths of an inch in bolt throw just doesn't amount to anything. Yes, the short cartridge makes it a bit lighter rifle but you can make the longer cartridge up in a lighter rifle if you are so inclined but why would you want to do that? In a big bore, added weight is a good thing. It helps tame the recoil. The longer cartridge shoots at less pressure and gives you a lot more room to work. I have to load my .450 Dakota DOWN to get it to the top of what a .458 Lott will do and there is a lot more room to seat the bullet as well. A 500 grain TSX is a stretch in a .458 Lott but in a .450 Dakota, no problem.

Short cartridges are great. I may have to make one of Jeff's .500 ARs one day but for me anyway, I would have to say that the .416 Rigby (or the .450) is perhaps the most perfect magazine cartridge ever.

Gumboot, if you can get a .416 Ruger for less money, that is indeed an advantage but you can also get a CZ in a .416 Rigby for a pretty good price too.

itis about choices, gentlemen, not inches .. CHOICES..

i, for one, believe everyone should have the right to make their own choices .. informed ones, not reactive ones.

i give ..

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

i, for one, believe everyone should have the right to make their own choices .. informed ones, not reactive ones

+ 1

I have one of each, a 416 Rigby, Remington and Ruger and performance wise they are equals. The only difference I can see is that one is a little lighter, smaller and a bit easier to carry all day in tough terrain. Plus it can be purchased off the shelf for a lot less money than either of the others.
As for the ammo "problem" it is silly to expect a new round to immediately have the same distribution pattern as older, established rounds but if there is a demand it will happen.

Phil,

two of the three are high pressure cartridges, and tapped out as far as velocity. The Rigby has ammunition available in most African countries. Most of the rest of the hunting community does not have to deal with -100 degree weather either; it is a + not a minus. Most hunting camps in Africa also have flush toilets and electricity. I saw +118-degree weather two days in Zimbabwe last December hunting buffalo and looking at elephant.

When I travel thousands of miles away from Idaho and spend thousands of MY dollars hunting, I want my cartridge selection to be available if needed. I also don't get my rifles and ammunition free from rugger, and they don't buy me hunting trips. When you pay for all of that stuff you tend to be a bit more conservative about things.

regards,

Rich
DRSS
Buff Killer

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
two of the three are high pressure cartridges, and tapped out as far as velocity. The Rigby has ammunition available in most African countries. Most of the rest of the hunting community does not have to deal with -100 degree weather either

Rich,
I'll agree the Rigby's chamber pressures are lower but with modern day powders and CRF rifles it's not the issue it use to be. In hot weather most folk who have hunted Africa or a hot day in Texas know to rechamber rounds every so often even 416 Rigby's to keep the rounds from running hot anyway. As far as velocity goes who needs anymore velocity than 2350-2400 in a 416 that will outpenetrate about any other caliber available. I personally think the 416 Ruger is not going to be that popular, it definately has a place in Alaska and will develop a following there and with some African hunters also, time will tell. If I lived in Alaska and wanted a 416 caliber rifle the Ruger would be my choice, if I lived and hunted exclusively in Africa the Rigby would be my personal choice.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Phil,

two of the three are high pressure cartridges, and tapped out as far as velocity. The Rigby has ammunition available in most African countries. Most of the rest of the hunting community does not have to deal with -100 degree weather either; it is a + not a minus. Most hunting camps in Africa also have flush toilets and electricity. I saw +118-degree weather two days in Zimbabwe last December hunting buffalo and looking at elephant.

When I travel thousands of miles away from Idaho and spend thousands of MY dollars hunting, I want my cartridge selection to be available if needed. I also don't get my rifles and ammunition free from rugger, and they don't buy me hunting trips. When you pay for all of that stuff you tend to be a bit more conservative about things.

regards,

Rich
DRSS
Buff Killer

From what I have seen in Zimbabwe the 416 Rem is more common than the 416 Rigby.

Also, the pressure thing is a red herring. Most of the magnums are loaded to the same pressure as the 416 Rem, and you don't hear of any failures to extract(with CRF rifles).

The Rigby case is cool, but it is needlessly large when used with modern powders loader for original velocities.

As for the original question. It does not seem that Ruger was too serious about making the 416 Ruger fly.

I just toted a 11.5+ pound Ruger RSM in 375 H&H all over Mozambique. When I got back I went straight to the sporting goods store and traded it for a .375 Ruger African Hawkeye which will be closer to 8.5 lbs. The RSM was just too heavy/clumsy to be carrying all day. Those 3 lbs. are a big deal to me. If my ammo gets lost on my next trip, I guess I'll be renting a rifle from someone.

If the South Africans get any more fussy about their rifle importation we may all be "renting " rifles.

following the convoluted logic of the rugger boys aka "1984 Gang" and their "...less is more..." theory; I bring you the boutique boys special. The Ruger 475 RCM. Based on a modified 22 Hornet case, the Ruger features the innovative bell mouth design. Ruger has also brought out an entirely new bolt action design based partially on the before its time Krag action. Ruger spokesman Bill "trust me" Smith stated that the new Ruger takes bolt action design to an all new level with its wedge-shaped detachable magazine. For over a century bolt action design has been stifled by the pre-conceived notion that the mouth of a cartridge case has to be smaller than the back.
With our new "Tootin" (so named for their uncanny resemblance to a trumpet) cartridges that offer the shooter the chance to take advantage of its many features, including the reverse Weatherby-evolved constantly decreasing venturi radius. The curve constantly increases, much like a decreasing camber left turn, and will be initially in the new Ruger "Rootin" rifle. This combination, hence forth known as the Rootin-Tootin Ruger Deluxe will be initially offered as a package special thru Ruger Outfitters Inc of Alaska. Jeff Smith and Phil Shoemaker are jointly offering this exclusive offer.

Rich
DRSS

We are also taking this time to announce Beta Phase testing is in place at the JPL Laboratories on the new line of zero-recoil varmint rifles and cartridges. Code name for the project is the LPFWT. "Like a Popcorn Fart in a Wind Tunnel", these will offer absolutely no recoil and a lazer flat trajectory. The initial project was funded by Orville Redenbacher.

. ,. . Rich , sometimes you are in the lunatic fringe.. No one is seriously bad mouthing the Rigby , either 416 or 450 Dakota or Rigby .. What people are saying is they don,t want to pack some heavy rifle around for Nothing ... If you want to pack one around , whindoner!!. I,ll be too busy packing out backpack loads of meat ,hides and antlers . .. If you hunted where we hunt , doubtless you would see the light ..

I really have not paid much attention to the 416 Ruger as it came out a couple years after my 416 B&M and the rest of the B&M series guns. Hell I never even seen one. But I suspect it is a fine cartridge, and to compare the 416 Ruger or the 416 B&M to 416 Rigby, 416 Remington or various others in that category is a "moot" point! That is not what these cartridges are about!

It is about the "platform" in which these cartridges are based! That is the point!

I have spent a hunting career carrying various big bore rifles around the world weighing in at 10-10.5 lbs and big long 24 inch barrels. But never again since the B&M series.

Comparing is a moot point as I stated--However let us consider this. Take a normal 416 caliber 400 gr bullet. The given norm for velocity of this is 2400 fps, that is supposed to be the magic number that someone come up with. To get to this point in the bigger cartridges you need that 24 inch barrel to burn that powder, most rifles come in at 10 lbs or so. Now let's us imagine an 18 inch barreled short action Winchester with overall length of 38 inches that weighs in between 6.5 lbs and 7.5 lbs depending on the stock, synthetic or wood, and it has a 416 caliber cartridge that can run that same 400 gr bullet to 2300 fps! Now does the buffalo or other critter know the difference in that 100 fps? I think not! I can tell you that at the end of the day I feel a damn sight better, have more energy, not near as tired carrying that small rifle than I do carrying that big rifle! I will make that sacrifice easy.

That I think is what the 416 Ruger is trying to get to. That is what my 416 B&M does. So for the "masses" I think the 416 Ruger is a fantastic idea, and follows close to what I have accomplished.

If one is concerned about the small drop in velocity then go with the bigger cartridges and rifles. I am keeping all my 416 Remington rifles (all Winchesters and Ruger #1s) all my 458 Lotts, 470 Capsticks and so on, but I won't be taking them to the field anymore, I see very little reason to do so.

Give me a short, light, and handy package that can still do the job and I will take that everyday over the bigger, longer, heavier rigs!

Just my 2 cents worth.

Michael

rich,
only YOU are bad mouthing cartridges .. think about it ..

The problem as I see it, is that too may ctgs dilute an already small market. So rather than a proliferation of big 375&40's, what we really need is more choices in guns.

There is no reason in the world that the ruger alaskan concept cannot be made on a magnum action in 375 H&H and 404 Jeff, heck even in Lott and Rigby if someone wanted. Its just plain STUPID to make a 10-11 pound 375 H&H like the ruger safari (whatever its called) rifle. its a nice proportioned gun in Lott IMHO, but crazy heavy in the H&H.

All we ever needed was a 375 H&H in the Alaskan configuration. If that turns out good for Africa than go ahead and chamber one of the exisiting 40's, like the Jeff.

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
The problem as I see it, is that too may ctgs dilute an already small market. So rather than a proliferation of big 375&40's, what we really need is more choices in guns.

There is no reason in the world that the ruger alaskan concept cannot be made on a magnum action in 375 H&H and 404 Jeff, heck even in Lott and Rigby if someone wanted. Its just plain STUPID to make a 10-11 pound 375 H&H like the ruger safari (whatever its called) rifle. its a nice proportioned gun in Lott IMHO, but crazy heavy in the H&H.

All we ever needed was a 375 H&H in the Alaskan configuration. If that turns out good for Africa than go ahead and chamber one of the exisiting 40's, like the Jeff.

+1

i would REALLY like it if you handgun control international members would stop posting about us NEEDING a cartridge or not.

Unless YOU are buying MY rifles, your personal decisions are EXACTLY that..

You are posting exactly what the anti's need ... "look, the gunners are even saying they don't NEED ABC"

Guys, THINK about what you are SAYING

And get over yourself .. if you think there's a huge market, go ask dakota and montana how much their sales went up when winchester went out...


Get your FACTS straight .. the 416 rigby was SAVED by CZ from being NOTHING ... it was a weirdo caliber, with brass from bertram, bell, and unobtainium, 15-20 years ago ...

the 404 was the working man's caliber .. only the works of shelby made the 416 seem like it was magic .. you are buying MARKETING

the 416 ruger fills a need .. and is 1/3 the price of the ACTION required (other than CZ) to build a rigby off a commerical action.

Guys, choice is the word of the day, and rejoice that you have the choice.

Let's fact it, there's nothing that can't be hunted with a 8x57 .. everything else is YOUR choice ..

someone may WANT a heavy 375 .. what's ot MY cup of tea is an 11lbs 308 .. but, in the right circumstance, they are REALLY good to shoot.

Don't dictate limiting choices, bub, unless you really want a tax per bullet to help you limit your choices...

"why i hate the 416 ruger... or, confessions of a gun grabber"

What the He**...you guys are all supposed to be the "Great White Hunters" and you argue over the most pissyant garbage.

I mean...I would think you all know how to build or have built or modify a rifle to ANY weigh or caliber you want. Damn, I'm not even a newbee compared to you people and I build my rifles in the calibers and rifle weights I want without breaking a sweat.

And whizzing in the wind over a few feet per second, or a few grains of bullet weight, the heat, pressure levels and the rest of the Krap that have had solutions for more than 20 years seems totally a waste of time.

Must just be pecker waving...eh???? cuz is sure ain't anything else...I'm mean all that "stuff" has been hashed over way back in the olden times.

Do ya think a 400-500 gr bullet in ANY caliber traveling at 2300-2500 f/s is going to kill the HE** out of ANY animal it hits unless you shoot it in the butt.

Come on...I read your posts for the good information(most of the time) and the fantasies of a wannabe not for the samo-samo stuff of the unwashed masses.

How many elephant did a well known African hunter kill with the 7x57 with solids along with how many bullalo?

Tell us more stories about what you happen to be shooting and how it worked and forget about all the "mine's bigger than yours" stuff.

It's how and where the hunter puts the bullet not necessarily how big it is.

I'm waiting to hear about the 12GaFH and how it worked on the big stuff. I can't afford to go to Africa and knocking down pine trees in the woods of Oregon is getting old. Besides shooting squirrels with 1000 gr slugs only leaves craters and not much else. Hahahahahahah

Luck on your hunts.

quote:

Originally posted by FOOBAR:
What the He**...you guys are all supposed to be the "Great White Hunters" and you argue over the most pissyant garbage.

I mean...I would think you all know how to build or have built or modify a rifle to ANY weigh or caliber you want. Damn, I'm not even a newbee compared to you people and I build my rifles in the calibers and rifle weights I want without breaking a sweat.

And whizzing in the wind over a few feet per second, or a few grains of bullet weight, the heat, pressure levels and the rest of the Krap that have had solutions for more than 20 years seems totally a waste of time.

Must just be pecker waving...eh???? cuz is sure ain't anything else...I'm mean all that "stuff" has been hashed over way back in the olden times.

Do ya think a 400-500 gr bullet in ANY caliber traveling at 2300-2500 f/s is going to kill the HE** out of ANY animal it hits unless you shoot it in the butt.

Come on...I read your posts for the good information(most of the time) and the fantasies of a wannabe not for the samo-samo stuff of the unwashed masses.

How many elephant did a well known African hunter kill with the 7x57 with solids along with how many bullalo?

Tell us more stories about what you happen to be shooting and how it worked and forget about all the "mine's bigger than yours" stuff.

It's how and where the hunter puts the bullet not necessarily how big it is.

I'm waiting to hear about the 12GaFH and how it worked on the big stuff. I can't afford to go to Africa and knocking down pine trees in the woods of Oregon is getting old. Besides shooting squirrels with 1000 gr slugs only leaves craters and not much else. Hahahahahahah

Luck on your hunts.

.
.
. Well Put .

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:

1. The problem as I see it, is that too may ctgs dilute an already small market.

2. So rather than a proliferation of big 375&40's, what we really need is more choices in guns.

3. All we ever needed was a 375 H&H in the Alaskan configuration. If that turns out good for Africa than go ahead and chamber one of the exisiting 40's, like the Jeff.

1. Sorry but that's dumb. Fewer cartridges equals a smaller market. It's the preponderance of new cartriges that spurs the curiosity and continued spending of a lot of the shooting public.

2. Sorry but that's silly. The number of choices are staggering today. Making your own one-of-a-kind has never been cheaper, either.

3. Sure. That's all you need. I want something different.

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
Its just plain STUPID to make a 10-11 pound 375 H&H like the ruger safari (whatever its called) rifle. its a nice proportioned gun in Lott IMHO, but crazy heavy in the H&H.

Fourbore, I totally agree with you on the weight issue, my 500 N.E. is only 10.4 lbs but because of the weight of the RSM in 375 H&H my wife can shoot a bigger caliber accurately without flinching so there is at least one positive thing about the weight, if one is recoil sensitive the RSM is the way to go.

What's the best parts of this arguement are:

1. if IIRC I am the only one who has been to Africa DG hunting! I'm getting flack from a bunch of armchair experts.

2. the rest of the argument for the new round is that their factory rifle chambered for the Rigby is too heavy. If you can't handle carrying a heavy rifle around hunting, I am pretty sure that you can't handle the recoil either, so stick to shooting bunnies with your 22lr 6lb 10-22...Girlie Men. If you go on a mild diet and lose just 5 pounds you should be able to haul that heavy rifle around much easier. Your orothtic surgeon will love you too, since your beer belly won't cause stenosis as quickly.

Anybody here ever wonder how 5'7" 140 pound members of the army infantry were able to carry a 10+lb Trapdoor Springfield around 10-12 miles a day, day after day, chasing indians? Answer they weren't overweight slobs like a lot of us here.

You are being sucked in by a semi-pro ad campaign telling you you are quite a he-man; but can't carry a real rifle around on a hunt. you want light weight, hunt with a 3lb longbow.

later girlie-men...

Rich
DRSS

Except for the #1A,H,S and newer RSM, I am not a fan of Ruger rifles or the 375 Ruger; however, the 20" Ruger Alaskan in 416 has piqued my interest. I have owned 4 Sakos in 416 Rem and just acquired a fourth. Thankfully, I reload because ammo runs about $130+, whereas the 416 Ruger runs 60+. ???? I found one at Mountain View Sports in Anchorage for $885. That seems like a pretty inexpensive way to get into a big bore. And it's short barrel, Hogue stock and finish are about perfect for Alaska - if you want something bigger than the 375.

Lou

ps: I hate to admit it, but I kind of also have a thing for the stainless Hawkeye in 358 Win.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
What's the best parts of this arguement are:

1. if IIRC I am the only one who has been to Africa DG hunting! I'm getting flack from a bunch of armchair experts.

2. the rest of the argument for the new round is that their factory rifle chambered for the Rigby is too heavy. If you can't handle carrying a heavy rifle around hunting, I am pretty sure that you can't handle the recoil either, so stick to shooting bunnies with your 22lr 6lb 10-22...Girlie Men. If you go on a mild diet and lose just 5 pounds you should be able to haul that heavy rifle around much easier. Your orothtic surgeon will love you too, since your beer belly won't cause stenosis as quickly.

Anybody here ever wonder how 5'7" 140 pound members of the army infantry were able to carry a 10+lb Trapdoor Springfield around 10-12 miles a day, day after day, chasing indians? Answer they weren't overweight slobs like a lot of us here.

You are being sucked in by a semi-pro ad campaign telling you you are quite a he-man; but can't carry a real rifle around on a hunt. you want light weight, hunt with a 3lb longbow.

later girlie-men...

Rich
DRSS

take a chill pill, Rich!

1. The sun doesn't shine just on the African continent.

2. Not quite; the argument is the Ruger is lighter, not that the other is "too heavy". Big difference to someone who can shoot either equally well. And losing 5 lbs won't do shit for you and me. Maybe 45.


3. Choice: carry the rifle or flogging. No-brainer.

4. Made no sense so I don't have a come-back that would, either.

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I am going for broke, and am building the Ruger twins in 375 with a scope and in 416 with a Lyman 48 aperture sight. Both of these will be on 1908 Brazilian Mausers.

The Ruger cartridges will fit much better than converting the Mausers to 416 Remington or Rigby.

The new Ruger cartridges are what should have happened anyway, being Newton inspired and not Holland and Holland copies.

I already have a 416 Ruger PTG reamer by the way.

And yeah I had a 375 H&H in a Mark V Weatherby and a custom 416 Remington on a CRF Model 70 years ago.

This is all fun and games anyway. Its not really important like what to do with an incompetent president.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Hmmmm, my .02 here.

416 of any flavor is much the same. I personally like to practice with my rifle, so a 10.5 lb 416 doesn't bother me. I agree its silly to have a 375 weighing more than 9 lbs, but I'm sure Ruger had figured there was economy of scale to keep the basic rifle the same across the three calibers. Persobally, I think the 416 Ruger is a good thing, it keeps interest in 416 bullets, which are the same for anyone with a 416 of any flavor.

Ammo availability. Quit whining, if you wanted available at any wal mart, you would have NEVER picked a 416 of any flavor. If you want availability, sell your 416 and get yourself a 375 H&H or 458 Win. Otherwise, stock up and enjoy what the 416s have to offer.

Pressure! In olden cartridges, the smokless powders used were much more sensitive to temperature than modern powders. However, there are couple that are still a bit twitchy.

CRF! If your cartridge is stock in the bore (you know who you are, loading a cartidge to 100 %, and spent all day walking around Africa with your rifle slung over a gun bearers shoulder), the power to remove the cartridge from the chamber lays not with the extractor, but the locking lugs. Having seen a few Weatherby's stuck, the extractor never failed, after beating the bolt open with a rubber hammer, the extractor chewed through the brass. Mauser bolts and the like are less likely to chew through the brass though as they grab more surface area, but they also have less camming force than the Wby Mk V action.

DGR! No matter the design, the rifle can't overcome poor planning. If you are reloading, make sure you back off from max to account for temperature. Almost all reloading manuals and program figure standard temperature and pressure. People say you don't want an "XYZ" rifle because when an animal is bearing down on you you want CRF to pull a stuck cartridge out of the chamber. These people haven't seen a cape buffalo run, nor do they realize how close you are when usually hunting them (assuming your PH thinks your up to it). If your rifle doesn't work, your ticket is about to be punched.

John

So...that's the problem...I am going to get rid of my long bow, that'll make the 12 lb. RSM more enjoyable to carry in waist deep water through the swamps of Mozambique...thanks Rich.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
What's the best parts of this arguement are:

1. if IIRC I am the only one who has been to Africa DG hunting! I'm getting flack from a bunch of armchair experts.


Rich
DRSS

I guess you did not see my post?

Don't feel bad JB...He didn't see mine either

that's why the 416 Rigby is not named the 416 Rigby Magnum. It's a 410gr bullet at 2400fps at under 45,000PSI. Loooooow pressure. You are not going to convince Steven Hawking and I that a smaller interior volume case can make more fps at less pressure than a bigger one. We have Physics and God on our side. 100 times out of 100 instances, the lower pressure round wins that discussion/argument at the same velocity.

Give it up!

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
that's why the 416 Rigby is not named the 416 Rigby Magnum. It's a 410gr bullet at 2400fps at under 45,000PSI. Loooooow pressure. You are not going to convince Steven Hawking and I that a smaller interior volume case can make more fps at less pressure than a bigger one. We have Physics and God on our side. 100 times out of 100 instances, the lower pressure round wins that discussion/argument at the same velocity.

Give it up!

Rich
DRSS

"give it up" ?
Its 45k CUP, not PSI, Rich, and thank you for noting that the 375 ruger, with its larger displacement, MUST be superior to the 375 HH, if they are loaded to the same velocity ..as the 375 ruger case has a larger capacity than the 375 hh

Rich, you are acting very hypocritical .. really..

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:





Rich
DRSS

take a chill pill, Rich!

1. The sun doesn't shine just on the African continent.

2. Not quite; the argument is the Ruger is lighter, not that the other is "too heavy". Big difference to someone who can shoot either equally well. And losing 5 lbs won't do shit for you and me. Maybe 45.


3. Choice: carry the rifle or flogging. No-brainer.

4. Made no sense so I don't have a come-back that would, either.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

. His whole posture is making no sense . He must be comuning with Shoo that a way ........
.
. I,ve carried a 500 A-Sq. Hannible packin moose meat just a little S.W. of Whitefish Lake wearing hip boots , and walked over 26 miles a day Half of which I had 100 plus pounds of meat on my back .............So Rich .....
.
. It was the only rifle I had with me at the time ..