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So, Rich, if older is better, then you are shooting a 375 leespeed, a 404 jeffery, and a 458 winmag , not the 375hh, 416 rigby, and 450 dakota? or did you make a CHOICE to have something newer/better/different, like, say, a 375 hh, 416 rigby, and 450 dakota? opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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This has been and interesting debate. Everyone has their favorite cartridges and passionately defends their choices. For what it is worth, I wanted to pass along a couple of quotes from Terry Wielands new book, DANGEROUS-GAME RIFLES. I don't always agree with Terry but I did agree with this. 1. "As far as the rifle itself is concerned, there are two major factors that govern recoil. First is weight. To me, no dangerous game rifle should weigh less than nine pounds, or (with a couple of exceptions) more than eleven pounds." 2. "... you simply must accept that a rifle of a certain power will have to be of a certain heft.... if you are not comfortable carrying that weight, than either get is shape to do so, hire a gunbearer, or go to a smaller cartridge. That sounds like a harsh perscription, but I see no alternative." If the purpose of ever shorter and shorter big bore cartridges is to make our guns lighter and lighter, (and I can see no other purpose) then I think that we are going in the wrong direction. Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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I understand that is conventional wisdom, Dave but if convention is the standard, what happened to "when you pull the trigger in the field, you never feel the recoil"? To agree with Terry is to discount all the people who handle recoil better than Terry does. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dave Bush: This has been and interesting debate. Everyone has their favorite cartridges and passionately defends their choices. For what it is worth, I wanted to pass along a couple of quotes from Terry Wielands new book, DANGEROUS-GAME RIFLES. I don't always agree with Terry but I did agree with this. 1. "As far as the rifle itself is concerned, there are two major factors that govern recoil. First is weight. To me, no dangerous game rifle should weigh less than nine pounds, or (with a couple of exceptions) more than eleven pounds." 2. "... you simply must accept that a rifle of a certain power will have to be of a certain heft.... if you are not comfortable carrying that weight, than either get is shape to do so, hire a gunbearer, or go to a smaller cartridge. That sounds like a harsh perscription, but I see no alternative." If the purpose of ever shorter and shorter big bore cartridges is to make our guns lighter and lighter, (and I can see no other purpose) then I think that we are going in the wrong direction. Dave DRS Dave While understood, I have to disagree with this in every manner. I too have Terry's book, and think it is a great book and have read it several times. I do however feel it is a little "dated" one might say. A bit "out of touch" in some areas. Really not much of a change from 20 plus years ago in some concepts. While recoil is a concern with some things, a 416 Ruger or my entire B&M series on lighter rifles is not "too much" recoil, to be a proper DGR and included, "fighting DGR". I can tell you without any doubt what so ever, a shorter rifle handles better, is extremely fast on target. Yes I have been there done that too, Not an armchair DG shooter. I have done it with both type rifles, big, long and heavy--short, fast and light. I much prefer the short, fast, and light anytime. Can one go too far? Yes, of course one can take this concept way too far. Power levels much above those of the B&M series rifles may be too much for the "masses" to handle. I see on this forum many times the 600 Overkill that weighs 7-8 lbs--that is overboard to me. However, a rifle coming in at 6.5-8 lbs and 38 inches overall length that can shoot 350 gr 416 caliber bullets at 2400 fps+ and 400 gr bullets at 2250-2300 fps is perfect for most if not all work to be done with a 416 caliber rifle. Since this discussion is primary to 416 Ruger, although I have zero experience with this particular cartridge, the concept is there, and while I have no knowledge, nor do I care about Rugers sales points on the subject, I have strong preferences to the concept that I would rather have short, fast, light, easy to carry, handy, and fast on target. Again, been there done that and have some pretty good field experience with both concepts. I in turn Do Not believe that this is the wrong direction. In fact every PH, every Guide, that I have hunted with asks the same question to themselves "Why am I carrying this rifle, when I could be carrying one of yours?" I believe in this so much that all my long heavy rifles, and there are several of these, in all cartridges and calibers from 416 Remington, 416 Rigby, 458 Winchester, 458 Lott, 470 Capstick, up to 510 Wells are all tucked away safely and retired from field use. In fact these days I can't even see a reason to be shooting them very much as I will not be taking them to the field again. Of course none of what is my opinion does not diminish in any way the wonderful cartridges and rifles we have, they have served me, and all of us a very long time and will continue to do so. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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416 ruger vs 416 Rigby? Either will do a fine job of killing game, the rest is up to the hunter. The real challenge lies in finding the time and funds to put yourself in the field of fair chase. A rifle can do nothing without its opperator. Find the game, shoot the game, game over. Repeat this process as often as possible. This seems reasonable. Timan | |||
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Mike: I respect your view and find you series of cartridges and Jeff's AR cartridges very interesting. As I indicated in a previous post, I plan to build a rifle on one of Jeff's cartridges one day. We all have a "threshold" for recoil. I think that yours is just higher than mine. I proved this to myself again recently whild shooting my .450 Dakota. Without a scope, my rifle weighs in at around ten pounds. I find that if I push a 500 grain bullet much beyond 2300 fps, it's just not fun anymore. Terry says the same thing in his book so at least in this regard, we are on the same page. I am not opposed to short, light big bores. If a fellow can handle the recoil, I say go for it. It's just that it not for me because I shoot so much more at the range than in the field. In the field, you just don't notice the recoil but if you want to be able to shoot, you have to practice and for me, a day at the range with a seven or eight pound .416 or a .458 is not my cup of tea. When I want something lighter, I drop down in caliber. I have become a great fan of the 9.3X62. My Blaser R93 in that caliber weighs less than eight pounds even with a scope and is a joy to shoot. Good hunting! Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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Dave Thank you very much. I am particularly proud of the work both Jeff and I have done with our cartridges! And I think we both have real world winners on our hands! Recoil can and is always an issue with the big bores, and everyone has a limit to what is comfortable for them. Including me. I shoot a lot! Most weeks I shoot 2 sessions and from 100-150 rounds each session all big bore of various sorts. Sighting in a rifle, test loads, bullet tests you name it, always doing something. I am fortunate I have my own indoor range only a few steps away from my loading room. So it makes shooting easy. One always has to stay on top of it, and I am in no way immune to recoil, just that I shoot so damn much I don't pay too much attention to it. Also the more one shoots a particular rifle the more you get used to it. For instance when I started throwing 550 gr .500 caliber bullets at 2200 fps out of the 500 MDM, I thought that recoil from it was pretty ugly. But shooting 200 rds in the first few days it did not seem as bad as I thought at first. Sad to say but there are always compromises to be made in shooting. Light rifles do have recoil, but they are fine to carry in the field! Heavy rifles while easy to shoot on the range, become cumbersome in the field. So like many things in life we all choose a different path to follow, and in the end we end up at the same destination. Thanks Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Jeffe, how'd you know I have a 404 Jeffery? The rest of you guys need to lighten up, take life with a grain of salt. There has been nothing new in firearms cartridges in nearly seventy years. What these companies are doing is scamming you. Hardly anyone buys a new rifle that they think isn't a major improvement in the rifle design or a radical new cartridge. Packaging, not the performance level is how they sell people new rifles. I repeat, it's a scam. You keep posting here that you have gone to see PT Barnum's museum and went thru a door marked "this way to the egress...". You're like children, distracted by shiny shit in a candy store window. If Ruger wants to do something wonderful, task Hornady to develop the caseless ammunition concept to a viable market entry. Today companies put ten pounds of shit into a nine pound bag and y'all go nuts thinking you got a deal. It's still ten pounds of shit, it's just in a different bag!! Waaay back in 1969-71 I was in a Ranger Company in Vietnam. I carried a 35lb Alice pack full of gear and an 11 lb M203. Thru the jungles, up and down steep mountains, from dawn to dark, and then we set up ambushes every night. Three day missions that occasionally stretched out to four or five days. I was in tremendous shape and ran that country like a tiger. Today I'm going to be sixty in September, forty pounds heavier and I get around with much less elan. Like I said earlier, start walking two miles every day and lose five pounds, after ninety days that "heavy" rifle will pack light as a feather. 99% of the guys I have met that have a lightweight rifle in a big caliber can't shoot it. It kicks too much, and the subconscious initiates a flinch trying to get away from the scene of the train wreck before it hits. Read how people hunted in the 1890's, all that has changed is the means of transportation in the back country. Those wimpy guys carried ten times the load you do, and you whine about rifles being too heavy. Get in shape instead. Rich DRSS | |||
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Dear Rich: In many ways you are right about cartridge design not having changed for 70 years. I would say almost 100 years when it came to Newton's creations. But that doesn't mean that the new Ruger 375 and 416 are not the cat's meow for a 100 year old Mauser. I'm all for reincarnating the past, when the original superlative achievement, Newton's, was lost in the mists of time. I can hardly wait to go shoot both of them. As to rifle weight, about 15 years ago I bought a Ruger 77 Target rifle in 243 Winchester, and plunked a Leupold 6-24x scope on it. It tipped the scales up near 12-13 pounds if my memory serves. I was in great shape then, but I only took that SOB ground hog hunting once. It was a tank. John Taylor makes a similar statement, when he said that rifles that are properly balanced should not be lightened to the point where they become unbalanced. On the other hand he said that an unnecessarily heavy rifle, if you are carrying it yourself produces a real burden when its time to shoot. I think his advice is relevant even today. I think he was in pretty good shape, too. Sincerely, Chris Bemis | |||
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Jeffe, et al; I am not against improvements in cartridge development. I am for them. What I am making light of; are scams masquerading as improvements. In cartridge design the past several years the firms have taken the benchresters manta out of context and paraded it before us as "new & improved". In BR, their motto is "Short and Fat is where it's at!". What they don't say is" for minimum cartridges at paper punching competition; but that is line two of the phrase that Ruger, et al, don't say. IMHO, and as an example of the right way to do things: the 404 Jeffery was the most widely used cartridge for dangerous game control from the 1920's on to 1990 or so. It came out in 1907 as a magazine rifle equivalent of the 450-400, which all and sundry here in the DRSS are proclaiming as the second coming. A practical DG round, that does not knock you silly firing it. 400gr bullet at 2150fps +/-. Today it is seeing a resurgence as a great cartridge for hunting anything, anywhere, any time. I agree. So is the new Hornady increased velocity loads for for the magazine rifle trade. Hornady is taking it into the 21st century by updating the velocity to 2400fps, again +/-. If Ruger were involved, we would subjected to three or four big names in the magazine industry being feted at the factory, then whizzed off to Africa to shoot lots of things with the new "Golly-Gee Whizbang 404 Ruger" cartridge. We won't be bull shitted for a year about the release date, then spend the next six months trying to find ammunition to buy. Hornady will just release the new HV loads for us to buy or not. Ruger does NOT do shooters favors gentlemen. This is a crass commercial effort to get you to spend money. If Ruger cared, they would offer the RSM in a full range of DG calibers like CZ does. RSM: 375H&H (14 pounds empty?), the 416 Rigby (awesome), and the 458 Lott (also awesome). From CZ for half the tariff of the RSM we get: 375H&Hm 416 Rigby,450 Rigby, 458Wm and Lott. For about the same as an RSM we can add 404Jeffery and 505 Gibbs to the list. Ruger is restrictive of caliber choice because they designed an inferior action, and don't care what shooters think. CZ is defining the market by their offering of the CZ 550 Magnum, which will take a 505 Gibbs. You all appear to be mesmerized by "ad-speak" and the punchline of George Orwell's book 1984,"less is more". For those who look at this as Ruger bashing, you have my condolences. You simply cannot see the forest for the trees. regards, Rich DRSS Freedom of (better) choice(s) | |||
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I have a little to add to this discussion. A friend of mine knew Bill Ruger. Bill Ruger told him that selling guns to hunters doesn't make much money. Hunters buy one gun to use and that is the end of it. Offer new calibers and new styles for people to collect is where the money is. I agree that the market is flooded with too many new and duplicate calibers. There is no way that 1/4 of them will survive. Many have already bit the dust, i.e. Some RSAUM, WSSM, and WSM. The new Marlin calibers may or may not survive as well; if they do it will be only in Marlin lever guns. I think the 416 Ruger will survive. I had a 416 Rigby on a Winchester P14 and nearly had a couple of 416 Rems but stayed with my 375 H&H's both times. 375 suits my needs more(North America). All of those calibers needed the longer actions and think that the 416 Ruger being a standard length makes sense as long as it works equal to the other 416's. PA Bear Hunter, NRA Benefactor | |||
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Rich, you're assuming a lot of other people's motives from a very cynical position and calling a lot of regular people stupid; a lot of folks here you once called "friend". If you think you know how to run a solvent gun company without marketing, sales or new products to attract return buyers, you owe it to your shooting brethern and to the industry to share that formula or start your own business. If you know a way to get gun nuts to buy twelve of the same model rifle in the same caliber, you should share that too. Because if you take away all the flash and dazzle, there aren't enough sales to keep more than one company in business and MAYBE one American ammo maker. Or would you prefer those jobs be shipped overseas next? "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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OK let me see, how about 1/2 dozen of the same cartridge with slight differences in the rifles? If that counts then maybe some gun company should do a marketing study on me? Or it could be I am just a little nuts? Gun Nuts?  Oh yes, I qualify! Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Absolutely not! you gave up the game with "slight differences"  !"Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Tigger You saying that I am just normal because of the "slight differences"? Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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i've got 1/4 a dozen cartridges that the only difference is neck diameter ... I guess I am lost on marketing .. of course, who NEED cases.. front stuffers are JUST fine.. heck, who needs front stuffers, ARROWS work.. atlayal anyone? ROCKS? ROcks.. that how they did it in the olden days.. and not these little bullets.. they used mud boulders, weighed 8 metric tons, if you knew what a mertic ton was back then, and carried around by a little scrany caveman, 5'1, 103 pounds.. he wasn't a FATas like YOU guys .. he was rough and ready .. and died of old age at 21. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Michael, I would never accuse you of being "normal". But back to the topic, sometimes it is the slightest of differences that makes something most interesting. Women come to mind. Just a few thousandths here and there are the difference between pretty eyes or lips and features that melt men's resolve. Guns can be that way; someone quoted D'Arcy Echols saying the difference between a good stock and a great stock is 30 thousandths. So maybe your appreciation of the "slight differences" makes you all the more exceptional as a consumer. How's that for digging out of a hole? "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Cliffs. You left out cliffs. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Jeffe Your statements I find offensive and totally unfair! Yes, getting a little fat, little lazy, but what I find pisses me off most is We Ain't got No Rocks here in South Carolina, so I can't do no rock chunking! How can I practice with no damn rocks to chunk? And no cliffs either! Remember I am on the coastal plains! Tigger "Michael, I would never accuse you of being "normal". Well thank god for that! Had me a little concerned for a bit! I was beginning to think some of the things I do was normal behavior! You did good at digging out! Where in the hell is "Porter TX" anyway? They have rocks there? Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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MM we got clay boulders .. rocks are very small here, like sub inch .. so you have to heard them into a creek, chunk a log or a mud brick on them.. then jump on their backs and strangle them to death .. no new fangled technology for me.. its just letting marketing sell you sometinig.. i mean, hell, if you buy ANYTHING aren't you giving into marketing? and marketing CAN'T be a godo thing.. Hey, I spent a year loosing 80 lbs.. most by trying to corner a pig into a gully and beating it to death with a mud boulder opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Clay, hmmm? Have some stuff here we call "gumbo", might just work! Try rolling me some of those in the morning, let them harden and see what the ballistic coefficient is and maybe we can sell them, just have to have the right marketing scheme is all! Back some time ago I lost some weight too, but I did not call her a pig and didn't have to beat her!  M http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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. . . Michael; I got ya beat , 8 , Ruger M77mk II in 338 win mag .. . Ya know why ? other than being a gun nut , They didn,t make the 375 and 416 Rugers yet ??? . ..I needed stainless in a suitable , hopefully , bear caliber .. Course I had some converted to real DG calibers . There were a few advantages to that tho .. Better bullets in 338 cal . like the 275 gr Kodiak Bonded Core PP Sp .. . Heck , I,ve bought 2 different 375 Rugers so far ....And none have a 23" barrel . .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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Now I am waiting for the 458 ruger that does 458 lott velocities in a standard action, that would be wild. But personally, I would like to see a 404 Jeffery in the MkII action. But a shorter action 458 would be cool. Even best yet, If ruger could do a double rifle in the $7-10k range, that would be a hot setup. John | |||
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MM, Hardening gumbo? That sounds like marketing hoodoo .. i mean, you would be drying them out.. and they would have less water.. how could LESS be MORE?>??? John (oh boy.. here comes the marketing) The ruger case COULD, hold a 458 .. but honestly, it headspaces better off a RUM case .. look in my signature 00 the 458 AR is what you are describing .. several fellas have them, and its basically a barrel job on a ruger.. the 404 "jeffe", which is a shortened neck, no other changes, fits in a standard action, and feeds very well .. you just cut the chamber with a 404 reamer, and special order a crimping die, POOF.. 404 in a standard action Look at this for a history .. and marketing http://forums.accuratereloadin...=769108843#769108843 opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Dear Jeffe: I certainly can subscribe to your rock/boulder launching. Just give me a slingshot. Here in Pennsylvania, we have glacial morraines with really big rocks. None of those wus, mini-rocks you southerners have. Actually, you can pick up your perfect sized rock by merely walking along the Appalachian trail. I'll even show you how to launch it. I was trained by the best: Boy Scouts of America and Yale University. I'm not kidding by the way. Actually, I did alot of damage in college with a slingshot. We didn't need no stinking guns! Sincerely, Chris Bemis | |||
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Seems I have some catching up to do. Gumboot OK, You win with "8". Best I can do is 6 of the same! 4--416 B&M 3-416 Remingtons 5-458 B&M 4-458 Lotts 2-458 Winchesters 2-=470 Capsticks 3-50 B&M Super Shorts 6-50 B&Ms 2-500 MDMs all in Winchester M70s. But if we go to Ruger #1s and Winchester 1885s then you can up all of those by 1. But if you go to various 1911s in 45 ACP I count 34 on hand? Does that count? Also counting various 45 Colt Revolvers current standing 33? Not sure if this counts or not? Jeffe Yep, hardening gumbo! I think the drying helps with the BC and the velocity, but I loose some mass too! May have to reconsider this! Big Bore Boar John (say that real fast 3 times in a row) Forget a Ruger in 458 Ruger---waste of time with Jeffes 458 AR. Get more with the 458 AR on the same platform. If you indeed want a short action 458 you are missing the 458 B&M on the Win M70 WSM action. Go find the B&M thread somewhere lost here on Big Bores. Yale Jeffe, this is how we lost the war way back then, the Yanks had bigger rocks, and I never even thought about a sling shot! Here we are drying clay and all they do is chunk big boulders, we never had a chance! Well done Chris! I think it suffices to say this thread has been "hi Jacked"  Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Good rifle for the $$$$$. Ruger & Hornady are in bed together on it, so I'd say its way past commercially accepted, and will always be available to some degree. The Alaskan is a very nice light handy rifle, all stainless, and has so far received great reviews. I like SS & synthetic as I camp out a lot when hunting in MT, but the Hogue stock is just to rubbery and soft for me. The metal finish seems really inconsistant on the Alaskans I've seen, and the actions were not the smoothest. The sights & balance are perfect (for me) though. I recently purchased my first "big bore" and was stuck between the Ruger #1 SS in 458Lott and the Ruger 416 Alaskan. Ended up w/ the #1 just because it felt more solid, and had a much greater choice in bullets & reloading. (and I side stepped the push feed vs. controlled feed argument - Go Rem!) If your looking for a rifle to show off, gets something pretty. If your looking for a rifle to shoot at the range, get something heavy. If your looking for a rifle to hunt anything, anywhere, anytime, get the Alaskan in 416. Bottom line is: - What & where are you intending to hunt? - Does the rifle fit & feel good to you? | |||
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perhaps the biggest problem with your prescription mwm re the 416 alaskan is not it's ability but its availability! | |||
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Availability ????????? . . Once you have one , and enough ammo who cares about availability ..... Hopefully quite soon I can say , Well I got mine ............. Michael , You deffinatly have me beat on the Volume ... You should get a discount ... The 1911 , Well there are alot of people who will pay the price of a semi custom 505 Gibbs for just one of them , so I guess they are a good investment .... Way rather have a Glock or S&W M&P tho.If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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Gumboot OH MY GOD I can't believe you would say such a thing! That is close to blasphemy! No that is a desecration at least. I have both my hands over my ears to not hear such!  That is me hiding behind the couch and putting on ear muffs so my ears cannot hear these things. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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<reachign for my archaic 45LC in a wheel gun...> Her name is Lucile glock? hip SHOOTER.. not shooting from the hip.. that is the gun most likely to shoot you in the leg .. but, i fully support your right and choice to have it opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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availability of ammo, gumboot. i know i haven't seen any. | |||
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that's always a crackup to me .. outside of some VERY high end stores, I have yet to see a box of 505 gibbs, 500 nitro, 577 nitro, or even the mundane 9,3x64, at any store. By VERY high end, I mean where ammo frequently costs more than $100 per box. 375 HH, 416 rem, 416 rigby, and MAYBE a box of 458 .. However, I have seen 375 ruger, 376 steyr, 450 marlin, and 416 ruger in the local gun shops. the same ones that were the first to carry wsm/rum .. and STILL do .. before walmart picked them up. But walmart is carrying the 327 federal .. go figure ammo availability, in the US, where one can reload, is a red herring -- in my opinion. I can count, on ONE HAND, the number of boxes of factory ammo I have shot, in a centerfire rifle, in the last 20 years. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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MHM, excuse me. "Mundane"? el jeffe, I'm crushed! | |||
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Rich, I have hunted Africa and humped the boonies in the highlands of Vietman the same time you did and carried a 22 pound M-60 and thirty pounds of ammo - plus my ruck -for half the time. I also have kept my self in shape and still carry a rifle hike with a heavy ruck in Alaska. You can call me wimpy all you want but I'll take the little addition recoil from a lightweight rifle over the additional weight anytime. If over thirty years of guiding in Alaska have taught me anything it is that Ruger builds a hell of a relaible, stout rifle and the new 375 and 416's are some of the best. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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I can say I have a good number of rifles that never seen factory ammo, and a good number of pistols as well. John | |||
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Doesn't get much more available than this: Gunbroker has the 416 Ruger Alaskan for under $800. Midway has the ammo in stock and ready to ship for under $80. | |||
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Jeffe, I'll have to look into the the 458 AR, it would be cool to have the ammo support and case support of Hornaday though, it sure makes buying 416 Rigby more palatable. As for the 404 Jeffery, I was hoping that they would chamber the actual 404 jeffery in a MkII action, not necessarily a RSM, but an RSM would be good too. John | |||
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.. . X2 ....    ., . I don,t know where to start  ... .I can see where you guys who like to build guns would like the 1911 Always having to fix them and fool with them , Heavy thinge .. If I want to pack some weight I,ll just pack a 2 lb framing hammer around .. If I want a defensive pistol I,ll take something that works first time and every time !!! Glock , S&W M&P (9 Millimeter Parabelm ..!!! . . If you knew what the 9.3x64 B does , You wouldn,t call it mundane .  .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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Gumboot You should know me better, I don't have anything that does not function 100% of the time. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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