what if...

what if it had a shorter neck (but still over a cal length neck)
the shoulder moved forward a tad...
the same shallow sloping easy feeding shoulder...
a diameter bullet that had a matching pistol bullet...





404 center 450/400 far left.

if you take the soon to be hornady 450/400 jeffery and cut an extractor grove and an identical rim/casehead, trim at 2.85" you have a....

400 jeffery!

nostalgia, all the good feeding qualities of the 404 and the most versitile safari gun. 400 gr premium bullets for d.g. and mid to lightweight pistol bullets for plainsgame and plinking

Schuler (in Germany) used to make an improved version of the 404 Jeffery in the 1930's.

It must have been a rare bird because I've never seen a single cartridge in anyone's collection (although I've seen the ad from German trade magazines from that period).

But, it was the same bullet diameter as the standard cartridge too.

Garrett

404 Dakota? 416 Howell?

fla...

wellllllll

this would be the same length as the original. (the 2.65" version would be less than a cal neck i believe)

non proprietery and have the use of pistol bullets with slick feeding and a nice herritage to boot

hornady/ruger are you listening

A fine idea Boom Stick!

thanks bfj...

it seems you can apreciate a 450/400 bolt action that can spit out nostalgia, take out the big 5 AND be a 300 yard plainsgame rifle

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
hornady/ruger are you listening

Will never happen. In the event that Hornady, Federal, etc., ever choose to load .404 Jeffery, the target market will be the existing rifles, which is a much larger market than would be the case with a new one off. That also means that they'll be careful to load it to CIP spec so that their export market is protected. Since the .404 is standardized by CIP, it is illegal to sell ammo in that caliber that is not CIP spec in most CIP member countries. The days of SAAMI and CIP ignoring each other are gone. Loaded to CIP spec, they can sell it anywhere, but they can't if they fiddle with it.
-----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder.

yeah i know they wont do it but it could be one hell of a versitile big bore...

a 400 jeffery would be cool as heck imho

I think the .404 Jeffery already is a cool round -- what am I missing here? I think they are pretty versatile if you hand load.

the 404 is awesome...a fave of mine (that i dont own yet) but with existing brass (altered granted) and the wide variety of weights of the 411 bore...its kinda neet i think

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=878663

these speer 210 gr gold dot should be great or the lighter but solid barnes xpb

What is the second case from the left? Were there any benefits to having such long necks on cartridges?

quote:

Originally posted by KennethI:
What is the second case from the left? Were there any benefits to having such long necks on cartridges?

Here is the original caption from the African Hunter article:

Left to Right: .450/.400 Jeffery, .450/.400 3¼", .404 Jeffery, .470, .458 Win. Mag.

That round is the 450/400 3 1/4 inch round.
This started life as a Black Powder round, and later converted to Cordite.

The 450/400 3 inch has always been a Nitro round.

.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
what if...

what if it had a shorter neck (but still over a cal length neck)
the shoulder moved forward a tad...
the same shallow sloping easy feeding shoulder...
a diameter bullet that had a matching pistol bullet...

Then it would be the .400 Tembo.

The pic below appears to be a 450-400, not a .404:

grains...

if you read the thread you would see that i am talking about altering the 450/400 case...

if you cut off the rim and add extractor grove and trim at 2.85 you have a 400 jeffery...

alf...it does not need to be loaded beyond 400@ 2200 0r 2300...the pistol bullets could be loaded faster cuzz the lighter weight at the same moderate preasure.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
grains...

if you read the thread you would see that i am talking about altering the 450/400 case...

if you cut off the rim and add extractor grove and trim at 2.85 you have a 400 jeffery...

Why would you do that? It would be easier to start with the .404 jeff case.

wellllll...

it would be a bolt action 450/400 and that is part of the charm...

also the shoulder would be forward more...

a just over cal neck...

use the original 450/400 reamer (shortened and rim cut off) and dies.

.

you mean i just re invented the original 404!

damn it now one reeeeeeely needs to be made!

the original d.g. bolt gun! who knew (besides alf and casey)

awesome post alf!
you know you want one

boom stick,
You have now come full circle and independently reinvented the wheel. Seems indeed that would be the prototype for the first ever bolt action DGR to serve man.

Now might I suggest you move on to actually build something? Like maybe a new .395? Let's not throw the baby out with the wash.

Gerard Schultz should be thought of as the father of this caliber, as he will be the first to produce something tangible that is related to this idea: .395 caliber GSC bullets.

Many people have toyed with the idea for years, but none have been brave enough to do it until now.

Thanks, Gerard Schultz.

rip, its not a mater of want but can...

i will finish the 470 a.r. soon rip.

if i could i would have a safe full of standerd and wildcat guns...

i think we have enough support here to do a group project 395 on the ruger case.

back on to the subject...

alf! can you send me pics of the ammo you speak of??? i would love to post it here.

.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Boomstick:

The Cartridge pictures unfortunately are in word format and I do not know how to get it to a format that is supported by Picture programs, otherwise I would have posted them.
I have a picture of the headstamp as well as the actual cartridge.

This evening I will post the dimensions of the original cartridge

If you email the Word files I will see if I can extract the .jpeg files and post them.

My email address is in my profile.

worst case scenario is to print it and scan it. it would be good to see the article here...pics and words.

.

Can anyone say "400 H&H ????

nooooo!

the original bolt dgr gun!

the 400 jeffery!!!!

soooo...

imho the new oldschool 400 jeffery should be the same rim and casehead and 2.85"

what say the peanut gallery?

so it was cordite that gave birth to the 423 cal

some of the beauty of this cart is...

bolt gun with 3 or 4 down,

headstamped brass

6 hours on the lathe for a lifetime supply of brass

old school nostalgia

verrrry versitile with the pistol bullets

easy to alter reamer and dies

Who makes .408 diameter pistol bullets?

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Who makes .408 diameter pistol bullets?

o.k.

"i" would use the 411 and use 410 pistol bullets

408-411 virtualy the same...now THAT is splitting hairs

If .408 and .411 are virtually the same, then why does shooting a .411 bullet in a .408 double rifle risk ruining it?

I would use 411 rifle bullets and 410 pistol in a 411 rifle not a 408 ect there is no need for 408 imho

This thread is almost quite amuzing.

Boom,
When you get a reamer made let me know.

Did the "original" .404 use .411 bullets? If not how would this be taking it back to its original specs?

Why not just build a .404 to current CIP specs and get a .22 for plinking?

Hey boom,
Either you bring back the original with .408's and rebated rim, or you make a brand new wildcat. Can't make a cat and call it original, just because it recembles. But the cat is a good one, by all means.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Boom,
When you get a reamer made let me know.

the great thing is reamers are already there...

just grind off the rim and regrind the front.