Has anybody used one of these much? I have heard that adding a 25lb of shot can cut recoil to pussycat levels. I have also heard "urban legends" to the effect that it can cause stocks to crack. The theory there is that it IS the equivalent of adding weight to the unit and over stressing the wood fiber.

Truth or fiction?

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

I have used one extensively in 300 Win mag and 375 H&H load development. 300+ rounds in 2 rifles. I intend to put it to further use on 375 Ackley and 458 Lott load development. My initial use was on guns fitted with synthetic stocks and big soft pads. I used up to 75 lbs of shot for ballast. The bench top surface is carpet and the sled does what sleds do - it slides rearward. Granted the movement decreases as balast increases but it still always moves. I think the combo of soft thick pads, and movement decrease the liklihood of fracture.

Both the 375 Ackley and the Lott are stocked in wood with big cushy pads. Accordingly I may drop the balast a little until I get a feel for the rifles behavior. I don't want to crack the RSM in Lott or the nice Bastogne piece on the Ackley.

As to the sled - I like it very much! It makes a great rest for load development and is easy to use.

It all depends on who you talk to. If the rifle isn't allowed to recoil, something's got to give, what it is I don't know for certain. Is this for your big cannon? Shoulder bothering the hell out you yet?

recoil is not an issue, yet. The 550 and 577 are generating some interest by at least one major arms manufacturer, and I am looking at trying to do about 150 rounds of each load testing over the next four to six weeks. I shoot off a standing rest a lot, but it is more of a velocity checker than real accuracy tester. I have been invited to "demo" the two rifles at the SCI Annual Convention the last week of January, and at the SHOT Show a week later. I'd like to show them some "Big Numbers" with 2MOA accuracy at the 25yd indoor ranges I will be "showing off" these two AR Bombers at.

I'd like to go on the record again, and state that this is all R Neal Shirley's fault...fifteen months ago he sent me some of those 505 Gibbs cylindrical cases. I'm co-dependent and he's an enabler... God bless ya Neal!

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

I resorted to using one with my 470 Mbogo in the last two weeks before my trip to Tanz. I was still fiddling with loads wanting the Swifts and Bridger's to print in the same spot and the amount of benching that cannon was giving me whiplash symptoms (sore neck and headache). It also helped with final sighting in with my chosen loads.

You can load them with up to 100 lbs of lead shot. I only had some cast lead for my 45/70 and 44 Mag handy, and that only totalled 30 lbs. So that's what I used....and YEP, it worked just as advertised.

FWIW, I don't believe the hooey about it breaking stocks and scopes. If you used the full 100lbs of lead, then maybe it could effect your stock. But otherwise, as far as the stock is concerned, its just like adding 25 or 50 lbs to your bodyweight. The thing still gives a bunch with that much weight....its not like sticking the butt of your rifle against a wall and pulling the trigger. And look at the videos of Frans, Dave E, myself and Canuck32 shooting the 470 Mbogo at our big bore shoot last spring. Using a lead slead is no different than letting Canuck32 borrow your rifle!!!!

And IMHO the contention that it would ever bust a scope seems like utter nonsense. I can accept that the recoil impulse would be directed more to the stock at put it at more risk, but how would reducing the total motion and acceleration of the rifle cause a scope to get more severly impacted??? If anything it should be seriously EASIER on scopes.

The bottom line for me is that the sucker works as advertised and my stock hasn't broken as a result of using it....and neither has my scope.

Just my 2c CDN (which is about 2.06c USD ),
Canuck

I have used mine for load development and it works fine. I only use 50# on it for all heavy calibers.

Your mileage may vary.
crl

Rich,

Get one and you'll never have to nurse a bruised and battered shoulder again. I shoot both my 458 Lott and the 458win mag off one when using a bench and it damn near cancels the felt recoil. One word of advice though. If you shoot alot, I would either by a second rabbit ear bag for the front rest or buy a good quality leather bag with a notch cut into it and fasten it to the plate. The one the sled comes with got very brittle and tore open, on the one that I purchased. It now has a heavy suede leather bag heavily taped to the front.

Joe

Rich,
i use one for load dev, WHEN EVER I CAN....
I keep mine at HogKiller's place.. and when I have to run down the street, i rent one at the load range and put 6 small sandbags on it...

don't try to STOP it... start with 25# and see the HUGE difference... you are slowing down the AMOUNT and the VELOCITY of the recoil...

and trust me, if 25# breaks the stock, you had better be glad it did it at the range

jeffe

I use it on everything, but I have wondered about the force on the stock.

I recently saw a Heym .470 that had just come back from a famous custom loader. Idiot had fired it in a Lead Sled with 50 lbs of shot in it. Base plate of the pad was broken in two, and the mounting screws had been shoved sideways in their holes. Miracle that the stock didn't break.

If the rifle doesn't really kick hard enough to need one, then it's probably OK in a lead sled. If it does kick hard enough to need one, there's no way I would shoot it in a sled. I've never actually seen a stock broken in one, but I've had several reliable reports of it.
--------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Have used the old one with the single beam. Difficult to use it to shoot good groups in load development. The adjustments are pretty crude. No it does not break stocks but if you have any loose action screws you will find out! This especially so in wood stocked rifles because typically we do not torque the action screws as much as in synthetics.

Very effective in taming recoil. Have a look at the RealGuns website. I believe he used a Hyskor unit & he says it does not cost much more than the lead sled but it does look more refined.

Regards
JohnT

We sell them at work, people love them for slug guns (I do to when sighting one in for customers), but no one here is using them on big bore rifles. I have heard the stock breakage rumors but have not personally seen one yet. I thought about getting one but hate the thought of filling it up with $50.00 bags of lead.

I've used a lead sled on 416 remy, 300 weatherby, 416 rigby, 338 win mag, and 458 win mag... along with several other medium bores. I'll be shooting a 458 Lott on it tomorrow. Mine works extremely well, you just want one that is well constructed, heavy, and has soft padding where the butt of the rifle stock is placed.

thank you all, looks like I need to "order one up", as they say.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

After I push out a few heavies at the "shootout at the hollow" that might come in handy

i have used a lead sled alot and found it to do just what they say it will it is a solid built unit and is great for load developing and sighting in big bore rifles and have never had a stock crack on any of the rifles i have shot off of it

quote:

Originally posted by xm15e2m4:
We sell them at work, people love them for slug guns (I do to when sighting one in for customers), but no one here is using them on big bore rifles. I have heard the stock breakage rumors but have not personally seen one yet. I thought about getting one but hate the thought of filling it up with $50.00 bags of lead.

Couldn't you use something besides lead?

Yes, I use sand bags, and they work perfectly well.

Rich, to save a bit of money, do not buy bagged bird shot. Just pick up enough wheel weights to add to the lead sled. Bag them up in old cut off blue jean legs(sewn shut) or find a heavy cloth bag.

Keith

They are great for bolt guns. I would never shoot a double rifle in a lead sled.

HI Rich, I'm back....sort of.
A Lead Sled doesn't stop recoil, it absorbs it and reduces movement through weight. The motion generated by the projectile moving forward creates rearward motion, recoil. It is not stopped, which places more stress on the stock. It is absorbed through the body of the sled and the weight placed on the sled.
And no, I couldn't find the puzzle for your mother in law.
Dana

I have seen a number of stocks broken on these type of recoil reducing rests..I broke a double rifle stock on my International rest..The big ones come out of the wood if you tie them down to tight, all that energy has to go someplace and broken wood results if they can't move enough to absorb most of the energy..so it can and does happen with the really big bores and I know of cracks forming in smaller bores.

I guess the secret is not tieing them down. That is what I do on mine and it still takes up a lot of recoil

thanks Ray.

Rich
DRSS Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Rich... Good luck tomorrow and I cant wait to see the pics

Hope you enjoy yer Safarikid experience with a big boomer and featherweight rifle

to all interested in the leadsled...
please read what i have been saying for the last YEAR

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
....don't try to STOP it... start with 25# and see the HUGE difference... you are slowing down the AMOUNT and the VELOCITY of the recoil...

and trust me, if 25# breaks the stock, you had better be glad it did it at the range

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
to all interested in the leadsled...
please read what i have been saying for the last YEAR

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
....don't try to STOP it... start with 25# and see the HUGE difference... you are slowing down the AMOUNT and the VELOCITY of the recoil...

and trust me, if 25# breaks the stock, you had better be glad it did it at the range

jeffe

I agree, tying it down would be a mistake, esp with the biggest guns.

Rich, I also use a lead sled and find it very useful for sighting in the big bores and use it in general now for bench sessions with all my rifles. As everybody has already said above, no need to pile on a maximum of weight, just put enough on to lessen the recoil to a nice comfort level.

I used mine pretty religiously with the 505 Gibbs and 550 Magunum (and 458 AR, 450 Ackley, et al) with either one or two shot bags. Never needed more. I like Hogkiller's wheel weight idea but I just happened to have some shot laying around.

No stock problems as of yet. I would think anything with a hard butt plate or minimal rubber pad would be at much greater risk; a good thick rubber pad probably has enough travel under compression to prevent cracking or butt damage. And I would be hesitant to lay any big bore double on one; if for no other reason, the recoil impulse would probably fling shots to a differnt point of aim.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Has anybody used one of these much? I have heard that adding a 25lb of shot can cut recoil to pussycat levels. I have also heard "urban legends" to the effect that it can cause stocks to crack. The theory there is that it IS the equivalent of adding weight to the unit and over stressing the wood fiber. Truth or fiction?
Rich DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Both are truth! The problem with cracking stocks would come if so much weight was used that the gun could not move to the rear at all on recoil-the effect would be the same as if you just placed the buttplate against a tree or a concrete wall. Under such conditions, the stock would have to absorb ALL the recoil energy. Then the weakest point in the stock might be unable to stand the thrust, and crack or split. Whether this happens will depend on how much energy that weak point can withstand.

If the Lead Sled is just used as a means for adding extra weight to the mass that the gun is asked to move to the rear, and the whole mass, including the Lead Sled and the gun, are able to actually move to the rear on recoil, it is much less likely that the stock will suffer any damage.

However, I have noted that, in addition to merely dampening recoil, the Lead Sled often changes the WAY the gun recoils, so that with some calibers (mostly those with a low MV but a heavy bullet), the point of impact using the device CAN BE somewhat different than when the gun is fired from the shoulder. I experienced this the other day when shooting a 10-pound 416 Rigby with a handload consisting of the 350-grain cast gascheck bullet at a MV of 2100 FPS. The POI difference at 100 yards was about 3", the three bullets fired from the Lead Sled striking to the right and above the POI of the round fired from the shoulder. (Low center shot. Point of aim, 6-o'clock. Leupold 2.5X scope, post reticle.) This is the target:

DeGuello,

got that RCBS mould, and shoot a lot of those 350's in my CZ. It makes it a real fun gun. What load are you using?

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

On my expensive internationa rest I had to take it up with the manufacturer after cracking my double rifle stock, and a 500 Jefferys, and he sent me a lighter spring and attachment, and that seemed to solve the problem with the big bores but I still strap the forend with about an inch or two of play, as opposed to strapping it down tight and depending on that spring..so far so good...

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
DeGuello,

got that RCBS mould, and shoot a lot of those 350's in my CZ. It makes it a real fun gun. What load are you using?

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

My load is 112 grains of AA8700, Federal 215 primer, Jamison brass, bullet seated to the crimp groove, but NOT crimped. Bullet hardened to 21 Brinnell, sized .417"...... V @ 10' from the muzzle is 2100 FPS. I think ths would make a good short-range deer load. Probably just put a .416" hole clean through one. Yes, it is fun to shoot!

There is a good article on the Lead Sled in the questions and answers section of the October 2007 American Rifleman that also says too much weight could damage stocks.

I have been using a lead sled for a year or so now on 6 of my large bores, none of which is a double. No problems with cracked stocks, etc. I use 50 lbs with my 505, everything else, 25 pounds. With this amount of weight, the sled does move back 4 inches with each shot with heavy 505 loads, but recoil is really damped. The only problem I have is that at really heavy recoil levels, the muzzle lift translates into stock lift and a bruised cheek bone! not conducive to fine accuracy.
The caldwell lead sled does not have a tie down mechanism.
I wonder if doubles break the stock because the stock generally drops a lot more?

Lead Sleds: I think they are totally useless. I want no part of the contraptions.
If I am getting tender in the shoulder I will slip the 25 pound bag of lead shot between the rifle and my shoulder, if a PAST pad is not enough, and deal with the decreased field of view in the scope or no problems with iron sights.

Yes they are bad for stressing stocks. End of story.

Ray,

What is the make and model of your rest and would you buy it again?

Thanks

Has anyone switched from the original Lead Sled to the new DFT Lead Sled? Was it much better and how?

Thank you

I have not put hands on the new one yet. But after using the original I would venture to say it has to be better.