rumor has it the 416 taylor getting saami approved via a-square...

sorry canuck...no more over loading

any word on this???

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
rumor has it the 416 taylor getting saami aprooved via a-square...

sorry canuck...no more over loading

any word on this???

A-Square is not big enough to ensure success. They tried it with the 338-06, it fizzled out. The "swan song" will be the 416 Ruger.

its not so much about widespread appeal but about standardizing, preasure ect

a-square is a niche market company. that is their business model i guess

quote:

Originally posted by .366torque:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
rumor has it the 416 taylor getting saami aprooved via a-square...

sorry canuck...no more over loading

any word on this???

A-Square is not big enough to ensure success. They tried it with the 338-06, it fizzled out. The "swan song" will be the 416 Ruger.

well, fella, lets not go too far...
they have done decent sammi work
416 asquare = 500/416 or 416 champuis (all three are the same)

338 asquare - 338'06, and now saami'ed.. and weatherby makes it!!

who sammi'ed the 458 lott??


LOL.. and fedearl is bringing out the 338-08 .... LOL

glad to see the taylor going through

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by .366torque:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
rumor has it the 416 taylor getting saami aprooved via a-square...

sorry canuck...no more over loading

any word on this???

A-Square is not big enough to ensure success. They tried it with the 338-06, it fizzled out. The "swan song" will be the 416 Ruger.

Why so many post of a negative nature??

I realize, I sound pessimistic, I just wish somone else, bigger would have saami'd it.

What does it matter? There are reamers. You run the cases through a die, load them up, and you're done.

Is there really that much demand that factory rifles need to be chambered in 416 Taylor?

Personally I am disappointed about this. Not that it may get SAAMI approved, but that A-Square is doing it. And not because I don't like A-Aquare either.....some of you may recall my earlier thread on 416 Taylor cartridge dimensions. A-Square has changed the dimensions of the cartridge. So far everyone I have talked to has the old standard dimensions for dies, chambers, brass. If A-Square standardizes it to different dimensions, then where the heck will we be?? Mass confusion?

Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
well, fella, lets not go too far...
they have done decent sammi work
416 asquare = 500/416 or 416 champuis (all three are the same)

No, they're not.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
sorry canuck...no more overloading

If A Square does it, it WILL be overloaded.

Canuck...you're right, that's SOP for A Square, so that the "standard" stuff will only be available from them.
---------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

some here have loaded the taylor to 400@ 2400...

what will a-square load it to???
my guess 400@ 2300. that is plenty

but ruger will cut them off at the knees with the 416 ruger.

sounds like they're jerks then. well, just because it gets saami'd doesn't mean everybody has to do it that way. just sucks because if ammo manufacturers follow that spec and release factory ammo then it will not necessarily work int he real Taylor chambers. Canuck, do you know the difference in dimensions?


Red

quote:

Originally posted by .366torque:
The "swan song" will be the 416 Ruger.

I agree, any new '06 length, magnum cartridges will now be based on the Ruger case. Cartridges that haven't yet solidified their reputation, e.g. .300 Win & .338 Win., will loose out to Ruger. You can go ahead and stick a fork in the .375 and .416 Taylors - they're done.

I do wonder if Ruger will pull a fast one and, instead of a .416, do a ".400 Ruger" to take advantage of Hornaday's .410 bullet supply they are using for the 450/400? That'd start the ...

i would think they would wnt to sell more 416's since the 400's will have a fine production rate.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
rumor has it the 416 taylor getting saami aprooved via a-square...

sorry canuck...no more over loading

any word on this???

quote:

what will a-square load it to???
my guess 400@ 2300. that is plenty

boomstick,

There is something to be said about withholding comment unless you've actually done it yourself.

Your take on whether 2400fps with a 400gr bullet from a 416 Taylor is an overload means nothing to me, smiley face notwithstanding. Go and look at the pictures of primers I posted. Notice that almost everyone here that actually has a 416 Taylor gets 2400 fps with RL 15 or IMR 4895 (and others), with no visible pressure signs or stiff extraction, etc. I assume most of us are experienced reloaders, and are not even so radical that we would hot-rod our 45/70's to 2000fps (I am happy with 1850fps in mine...the brass lasts a LOT longer).

Boomie...as you learn more about carts and wildcatting from reading, you are becoming a bit of a "know-it-all".

If you want to learn something about why this is NOT a good thing (the cartridge dimension issue) for the many of us that have a 416 Taylor and dies and get good headstamped brass from QualCart...re-read this old post of mine...here.

JMHO,
Canuck

quote:

You can go ahead and stick a fork in the .375 and .416 Taylors - they're done.

I fully concurr and add that most 416 Taylors will be rechambered sometime soon to get with the program!

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:
Canuck, do you know the difference in dimensions?


Red

Red,

I've got it all spelled out in this old thread, here.

Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

You can go ahead and stick a fork in the .375 and .416 Taylors - they're done.

I fully concurr and add that most 416 Taylors will be rechambered sometime soon to get with the program!

JMHO, but I personally don't think a whole pile of them will be re-chambered. I definitely do agree that there won't be nearly as many new ones being built.

Cheers,
Canuck

yes canuck you are probably the most experienced 416 taylor guy here...(i will let you and rip fight over that)

i was ribbing you a bit in fun and good taste i hope.

isnt 400@ 2300 plenty?

p.s. you can get 405@ 2000 fps factory 45-70 ammo by buffalo bore blame them for hotrodding...my idea will give you lower preasure

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#4570

My .416 Taylor was chambered by Ruger many years ago. A Square makes properly headstamped cases and RCBS made the dies. Everything works fine, so what is all this saami stuff?

quote:

Originally posted by doccash:
My .416 Taylor was chambered by Ruger many years ago. A Square makes properly headstamped cases and RCBS made the dies. Everything works fine, so what is all this saami stuff?

SAAMI is merely an organization that collects the specifications of the cartridge and the pressures it is loaded to. Once a cartridge is listed in SAAMI it's an official commercial cartridge. Many cartridges were official wildcats prior to being recorded in SAAMI..... the .25-250 and the .25-06 for starters!

Canuck,
Similiar to you I've noticed differences in the dimensions given by A-Square in their manual compared with other publications. Is it possible the dimensions given in the A-Square manual were wrong or a typo?? Or ... does anyone know whether they are the dimensions A-Square wishes to standardise??
Going to get messy given that you can buy 416Taylor headstamped brass which is true "Taylor" dimensions and not some "416/338" bastardised version. Likewise, sets of 416Taylor marked dies currently do not correspond to "416/338" like dimensions ... but rather the original.
Cheers...
Con

I really don't think I'll be rechambering my taylor any time soon works very well just as it is.

As long as they keep making 458 brass I'll not have to worry about geting brass that fits.

If and when I would decide to go overseas with it ''l buy some proper head stamped brass and be done with it.

I loaded loads before it was saami that work and I'll load the same loads now.

If I want a 416 ruger or another I'll just get another rifle built up and have fun with that one also.

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:
I personally don't think a whole pile of them will be re-chambered. I definitely do agree that there won't be nearly as many new ones being built.

Cheers,
Canuck

After rethinking it.....the 416 Taylor is no pipsqueak.....I think you're likely dead-on here...

The 416 Taylor will be around a long time and likely very few of them will be rechambered.

However if the 416 Ruger ever becomes a factory chambering and factory ammo available then there'd be a lot of incentive for 416 Taylors to rechamber.

quote:

However if the 416 Ruger ever becomes a factory chambering and factory ammo available then there'd be a lot of incentive for 416 Taylors to rechamber.

Yes, and more importantly, very little incentive for anyone to build a new 416 Taylor.

While there will definitely be some re-chambering to the 416 Ruger, I think most 416 Taylor owners are going to think like p dog shooter above. I know I do anyway.

Cheers,
Canuck

The .416 Taylor is a great ctg. I'm really surprized that it wasn't adopted buy someone. When Ruger chambered a few rifles for it I thought that it possibly had a home. It has been called a great ele ctg for ladies! Sure there will be some Ruger .416/.375s, but the .416 Taylor will always be special. Dr. C

..........Well I spose I should ... I,ve had 2 different 416 Taylors.,.I,ve loaded and shot them a fair amount and really like the round .. Neither of mine would do 2400 fps with 400 gr bullets.,., And I tried , believe me ,, self preservation made me back off.,.,perhaps if they had 24 " barrels they would have ... For me the shorter the cartridge the shorter the barrel...If I want a Great Big gun I will put a Great Big Cartridge in it,...My 416 Rem mags both have and had 22 " barrels my Taylors , 18 " and 19 ".,..,.,. There seems to be some 416 Taylor rifles that like Canuck,s attain 2400 fps w/ 400 gr bullets , and some like mine that would not....I know sevral people who are seriously considering building one....I am considering a 411 KDF.....My standard go to load was 74 gr . IMR 4320 w/ 350 gr nice pointy original X bullets ...And 350 gr Speer sp.. It averaged 2450 fps .. My max working 400 gr load was 70.5 gr 4320 and it went a little faster than 2300 fps..70 grains was better , for overall reliability..... I had bad results with the RL 15 ,IMR 4895 and IMR 4064...At least my results with 4320 were much more consistant ,., and the velocities were higher with less powder compression .. I used a drop tube.....The 325 gr X bullet @ 2525 or so worked spectacularly on in bound brown bear ,.,.And the others did as well...For the un experienced with these rounds , that 325 gr X bullet would make about a 2 " exit hole on a deers ribs , more like 1.5 " Not much blood shock either,,Deer would run 20 yrds or so and fall over.....Bears just dropped....The 400 gr Hornady and Barnes Orig .049 jck. were great deer bullets as well....There seems also to be this foolish mist that covers some mens minds when they think about non belted cartridges......Like it somehow makes a cartridge better ......This ignorance is enough to make me fly into a cuss fit.......Course most of these belt less types want to have a few well armed buddies with them if they ever end up Real close to truly dangerous game so that if their beltless wonder misfires from a set back shoulder somebody can save their butt...... A belt helps cause a rifle to go Bang everytime......And that is a far better thing than thinking you are cool because of some beltless foolishness .,.,It,s just stupid , stupid , stupid.,.,%$^&*()#@$!@#$%^& STUPID.. So IF Ruger comes out with a 411 or 416 off the 375 Ruger case great,,.,. It may be as good as the 416 Rem Mag ...But it will be the rifle that will make the cartridge not vice versa...And I would prefer a Ruger Alaskan rifle in 416 Taylor or 411 KDF ,,Since the Taylor never disapointed me or failed to keep me from getting bit....

quote:

416 taylor getting saami approved via a-square?

Just for giggles the title of this thread is a bit misleading.....SAAMI does not "approve" anything....it's merely a recording and registering agency for reference to others.
Not a minor point IMO!

saami publishes a spec, as the maker submitted.

it is an american group to normalize cartridges..


it also does pressure testing to assure the load data is REPEATABLE...

jeffe