The right wing, warmongers, have been claiming Putin is losing the war.

He has taken what he wants in territory.

And he ain’t moving!

The issue is not what Putin won’t give back in a negotiated peace. The issue is Ukraine being excluded from the process.

That is inexcusable.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
How much more money do you lefties want to send Ukraine????? We've sent billions and is Ukraine free?

We have citizens, tax paying citizens, in North Carolina, Florida and kookiphonia, that need help. Russia is not beating on our door.

Exactly how much is Europe, you know the people close to Russia, how much are they sacrificing?????

https://www.statista.com/chart...inancial-aid-donors/

You, and we, have sent billions and Ukraine hasn’t been overrun by Russia, who expected to win in 3 weeks.

Europe, and by that I include the UK even tho we are not part of the EU, has donated a similar amount to the US. Add up what the EU has donated plus that provided by individual countries and the totals are about the same.

The chart also shows it by percentage of GDP

Russia isn’t at our border either, but supporting people who are fighting for their own freedom against a much larger dictatorship is the right thing to do.

To paraphrase SP, how much has the US spent trying to bring democracy to those who evidently don’t want it, both in financial terms and with the lives of your own ( and our) troops, yet when you have a country which is desperate to fight off Russia ( and who hasn’t asked for the US or NATO to commit the life of a single one of our soldiers) you turn your back because Trump thinks that is the answer.

The US wanted to invade Iraq and Afghanistan, and you wanted others to support you, which we did. Now Trump says the conflict ain’t at our door so we ain’t interested.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
The issue is not what Putin won’t give back in a negotiated peace. The issue is Ukraine being excluded from the process.

That is inexcusable.

Trump told the Palestinians that they will not be allowed back to their homes.

Just because NitanHitler told him to do so.

May be Putin told Trump the CIA puppet is no longer necessary either??

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The right wing, warmongers, have been claiming Putin is losing the war.

He has taken what he wants in territory.

And he ain’t moving!

No, he’s taken about 20% of what he initially wanted and he’s still burning through troops and tanks trying to take the rest.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

The Nazis had designs for a long-range bomber that could reach NY and DC and plans to use them. If we'd only delayed a little longer getting involved...

But Russia has jack-sh!+

…China maybe but hard to get y’all interested there.

No need to worry about Russia, Trump and Putin are "friends" Nothing to see here, move along

To be honest Steve. While Putin is a jack-booted thug and I would happily trip the lever on the gallows to hang the SOB…Russia is very little threat militarily. We’ve all seen it now. If Trump talks him into retiring into his hole…so be it…we are all better off. Sending new blades to the meat grinder ain’t helping. Zelensky is not a saint.

Trump won’t talk him into retreating into his hole, Trump is more likely to say keep what you have taken and I will force Ukraine to agree to it. Rather a different result.

Serves the CIA and its pointless wars right!

The poor puppet is not very happy!

Being screwed by Putin and his masters!

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
How much more money do you lefties want to send Ukraine????? We've sent billions and is Ukraine free?

We have citizens, tax paying citizens, in North Carolina, Florida and kookiphonia, that need help. Russia is not beating on our door.

Exactly how much is Europe, you know the people close to Russia, how much are they sacrificing?????

You're OK with Putin invading another sovereign country and taking that country's land by force?

My view of it is that we should confront Putin at every opportunity and thwart his plans to return Russia to being a world power. Because, that is exactly what he wants to do. He is old school KGB.

How much money and American blood will be spent when Putin continues to devour Europe?

I don’t think he has the ability, certainly not now Ukraine has destroyed a chunk of his military machine.

Lane is correct that China is a much more capable long term threat, but that doesn’t mean turning your back on Ukraine is the right thing to do. If anything it shows China that US support is fickle and the US may well not have the stomach to support Taiwan (or whoever) esp if Trump is at the helm.

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
How much more money do you lefties want to send Ukraine????? We've sent billions and is Ukraine free?

We have citizens, tax paying citizens, in North Carolina, Florida and kookiphonia, that need help. Russia is not beating on our door.

Exactly how much is Europe, you know the people close to Russia, how much are they sacrificing?????

You're OK with Putin invading another sovereign country and taking that country's land by force?

My view of it is that we should confront Putin at every opportunity and thwart his plans to return Russia to being a world power. Because, that is exactly what he wants to do. He is old school KGB.

How much money and American blood will be spent when Putin continues to devour Europe?

I don’t think he has the ability, certainly not now Ukraine has destroyed a chunk of his military machine.

Lane is correct that China is a much more capable long term threat, but that doesn’t mean turning your back on Ukraine is the right thing to do. If anything it shows China that US support is fickle and the US may well not have the stomach to support Taiwan (or whoever) esp if Trump is at the helm.

President Jefferson warned us about Foreign Entanglements.

In 200 years nothing has changed, the same "old school" European grousing and infighting is there. How Britain hasn't used the Chunnel to invade France again or vis versa i dunno, but it's coming!

I wouldn't say we shouldn't support Ukraine, but they haven't changed, Ukraine is still a very corrupt oligarchy. And Ukraine has been in and out of Russian rule for centuries. And we're not the world police! America hardly understands the politics within its borders, much less half a world away. And Russia hasn't demonstrated itself to be capable of much of anything! Vlad is a loser! It's been said repeatedly here that Vlad intends to take over more of Europe, fine,....how? Given his demonstrated performance in Ukraine, exactly how would Vlad achieve success elsewhere?

Vlad is the transgender of European politics. Vlad insists he's a man, wants everyone to think he's a man, tells everyone to refer to him as a man but he simply isn't.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Here we have the far, false, right not caring that Ukraine will not be at the table when they are the ones doing the fighting and firing.

Yes, the guys who actually own the real estate post-holomodor, and may not be agreeable to Trump's negotations.

quote:

In 2-8 years Putin will be back to take someone else.

Probably. Just like now, after Putin gets his guys in place, he'll be ready for the next step.
First minerals and natural gas, next farmland and pipelines?

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
How much more money do you lefties want to send Ukraine????? We've sent billions and is Ukraine free?

We have citizens, tax paying citizens, in North Carolina, Florida and kookiphonia, that need help. Russia is not beating on our door.

Exactly how much is Europe, you know the people close to Russia, how much are they sacrificing?????

You're OK with Putin invading another sovereign country and taking that country's land by force?

My view of it is that we should confront Putin at every opportunity and thwart his plans to return Russia to being a world power. Because, that is exactly what he wants to do. He is old school KGB.

How much money and American blood will be spent when Putin continues to devour Europe?

Impossible…we all know it now. Russia was a paper tiger.

Not impossible.

How much are you going to let them take?

quote:

Originally posted by TomP:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Here we have the far, false, right not caring that Ukraine will not be at the table when they are the ones doing the fighting and firing.

Yes, the guys who actually own the real estate post-holomodor, and may not be agreeable to Trump's negotations.

quote:

In 2-8 years Putin will be back to take someone else.

Probably. Just like now, after Putin gets his guys in place, he'll be ready for the next step.
First minerals and natural gas, next farmland and pipelines?

In 5 - 10 years Poland with be the premier military power in Europe. They are determined not to become Russian again and are shaping their military to achieve e this.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
How much more money do you lefties want to send Ukraine????? We've sent billions and is Ukraine free?

We have citizens, tax paying citizens, in North Carolina, Florida and kookiphonia, that need help. Russia is not beating on our door.

Exactly how much is Europe, you know the people close to Russia, how much are they sacrificing?????

You're OK with Putin invading another sovereign country and taking that country's land by force?

My view of it is that we should confront Putin at every opportunity and thwart his plans to return Russia to being a world power. Because, that is exactly what he wants to do. He is old school KGB.

How much money and American blood will be spent when Putin continues to devour Europe?

I don’t think he has the ability, certainly not now Ukraine has destroyed a chunk of his military machine.

Lane is correct that China is a much more capable long term threat, but that doesn’t mean turning your back on Ukraine is the right thing to do. If anything it shows China that US support is fickle and the US may well not have the stomach to support Taiwan (or whoever) esp if Trump is at the helm.

President Jefferson warned us about Foreign Entanglements.

In 200 years nothing has changed, the same "old school" European grousing and infighting is there. How Britain hasn't used the Chunnel to invade France again or vis versa i dunno, but it's coming!

I wouldn't say we shouldn't support Ukraine, but they haven't changed, Ukraine is still a very corrupt oligarchy. And Ukraine has been in and out of Russian rule for centuries. And we're not the world police! America hardly understands the politics within its borders, much less half a world away. And Russia hasn't demonstrated itself to be capable of much of anything! Vlad is a loser! It's been said repeatedly here that Vlad intends to take over more of Europe, fine,....how? Given his demonstrated performance in Ukraine, exactly how would Vlad achieve success elsewhere?

Vlad is the transgender of European politics. Vlad insists he's a man, wants everyone to think he's a man, tells everyone to refer to him as a man but he simply isn't.

It is absolutely not the same European grousing Scott.

Since ww2 there have been no major conflicts in Western Europe, the longest period of continuous peace since the Roman occupation, circa 2000 years. As far as I am concerned this is the biggest benefit to come out of the EU and NATO.

My generation haven’t fought in wars on our own doorstep, haven’t faced conscription, haven’t faced the prospect of invasion.

I’d very much like that to continue.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Not impossible.

How much are you going to let them take?

Yeah, 400B euro from other nations and whatever it has cost Ukraine in destroyed cities, land, income, exports, and most of all lives. And that's just in halting Russia and incrementally bleeding them dry over a long timeframe. It takes 5 or more years to crush and collapse a war economy if history is anything to go by.
Russia isn't everything the world thought they were before all this. But they are still a major threat because they will willingly expend their people.

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
How much more money do you lefties want to send Ukraine????? We've sent billions and is Ukraine free?

We have citizens, tax paying citizens, in North Carolina, Florida and kookiphonia, that need help. Russia is not beating on our door.

Exactly how much is Europe, you know the people close to Russia, how much are they sacrificing?????

You're OK with Putin invading another sovereign country and taking that country's land by force?

My view of it is that we should confront Putin at every opportunity and thwart his plans to return Russia to being a world power. Because, that is exactly what he wants to do. He is old school KGB.

How much money and American blood will be spent when Putin continues to devour Europe?

I don’t think he has the ability, certainly not now Ukraine has destroyed a chunk of his military machine.

Lane is correct that China is a much more capable long term threat, but that doesn’t mean turning your back on Ukraine is the right thing to do. If anything it shows China that US support is fickle and the US may well not have the stomach to support Taiwan (or whoever) esp if Trump is at the helm.

President Jefferson warned us about Foreign Entanglements.

In 200 years nothing has changed, the same "old school" European grousing and infighting is there. How Britain hasn't used the Chunnel to invade France again or vis versa i dunno, but it's coming!

I wouldn't say we shouldn't support Ukraine, but they haven't changed, Ukraine is still a very corrupt oligarchy. And Ukraine has been in and out of Russian rule for centuries. And we're not the world police! America hardly understands the politics within its borders, much less half a world away. And Russia hasn't demonstrated itself to be capable of much of anything! Vlad is a loser! It's been said repeatedly here that Vlad intends to take over more of Europe, fine,....how? Given his demonstrated performance in Ukraine, exactly how would Vlad achieve success elsewhere?

Vlad is the transgender of European politics. Vlad insists he's a man, wants everyone to think he's a man, tells everyone to refer to him as a man but he simply isn't.

It is absolutely not the same European grousing Scott.

Since ww2 there have been no major conflicts in Western Europe, the longest period of continuous peace since the Roman occupation, circa 2000 years. As far as I am concerned this is the biggest benefit to come out of the EU and NATO.

My generation haven’t fought in wars on our own doorstep, haven’t faced conscription, haven’t faced the prospect of invasion.

I’d very much like that to continue.

You guys had Yugoslavia, America had to come over. You guys had a dust up in Georgia, Ireland vs Britain, and now Ukraine for more than 10 years I think.

It makes no more sense for the United States to entangle ourselves in Europe than it would for Australia or China.

I'm glad the NATO alliance works, truly, but I'd like my nation find other things to do than fight.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
How much more money do you lefties want to send Ukraine????? We've sent billions and is Ukraine free?

We have citizens, tax paying citizens, in North Carolina, Florida and kookiphonia, that need help. Russia is not beating on our door.

Exactly how much is Europe, you know the people close to Russia, how much are they sacrificing?????

You're OK with Putin invading another sovereign country and taking that country's land by force?

My view of it is that we should confront Putin at every opportunity and thwart his plans to return Russia to being a world power. Because, that is exactly what he wants to do. He is old school KGB.

How much money and American blood will be spent when Putin continues to devour Europe?

I don’t think he has the ability, certainly not now Ukraine has destroyed a chunk of his military machine.

Lane is correct that China is a much more capable long term threat, but that doesn’t mean turning your back on Ukraine is the right thing to do. If anything it shows China that US support is fickle and the US may well not have the stomach to support Taiwan (or whoever) esp if Trump is at the helm.

President Jefferson warned us about Foreign Entanglements.

In 200 years nothing has changed, the same "old school" European grousing and infighting is there. How Britain hasn't used the Chunnel to invade France again or vis versa i dunno, but it's coming!

I wouldn't say we shouldn't support Ukraine, but they haven't changed, Ukraine is still a very corrupt oligarchy. And Ukraine has been in and out of Russian rule for centuries. And we're not the world police! America hardly understands the politics within its borders, much less half a world away. And Russia hasn't demonstrated itself to be capable of much of anything! Vlad is a loser! It's been said repeatedly here that Vlad intends to take over more of Europe, fine,....how? Given his demonstrated performance in Ukraine, exactly how would Vlad achieve success elsewhere?

Vlad is the transgender of European politics. Vlad insists he's a man, wants everyone to think he's a man, tells everyone to refer to him as a man but he simply isn't.

It is absolutely not the same European grousing Scott.

Since ww2 there have been no major conflicts in Western Europe, the longest period of continuous peace since the Roman occupation, circa 2000 years. As far as I am concerned this is the biggest benefit to come out of the EU and NATO.

My generation haven’t fought in wars on our own doorstep, haven’t faced conscription, haven’t faced the prospect of invasion.

I’d very much like that to continue.

You guys had Yugoslavia, America had to come over. You guys had a dust up in Georgia, Ireland vs Britain, and now Ukraine for more than 10 years I think.

It makes no more sense for the United States to entangle ourselves in Europe than it would for Australia or China.

I'm glad the NATO alliance works, truly, but I'd like my nation find other things to do than fight.

it is sad to think that for yugoslavia to think that without clinton that will still bad there ... not that it is fixed there anyway but thanks to usaf and marine corps they stopped what europe has no cojones to do ...

quote:

it is sad to think that for yugoslavia to think that without clinton that will still bad there

I usually have no problem understanding your meaning, but that one defies interpretation.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

quote:

it is sad to think that for yugoslavia to think that without clinton that will still bad there

I usually have no problem understanding your meaning, but that one defies interpretation.

it is sad to think that for yugoslavia without clinton that will be still bad there.

shoulbe better that way lol

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
How much more money do you lefties want to send Ukraine????? We've sent billions and is Ukraine free?

We have citizens, tax paying citizens, in North Carolina, Florida and kookiphonia, that need help. Russia is not beating on our door.

Exactly how much is Europe, you know the people close to Russia, how much are they sacrificing?????

You're OK with Putin invading another sovereign country and taking that country's land by force?

My view of it is that we should confront Putin at every opportunity and thwart his plans to return Russia to being a world power. Because, that is exactly what he wants to do. He is old school KGB.

How much money and American blood will be spent when Putin continues to devour Europe?

Impossible…we all know it now. Russia was a paper tiger.

>>>>They mistakenly assumed that the campaign would be a short one, and that the Soviets would give in after suffering the shock of massive initial defeats. Hitler had assured the High Command that 'We have only to kick in the front door and the whole rotten edifice will come tumbling down'.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

The Nazis had designs for a long-range bomber that could reach NY and DC and plans to use them. If we'd only delayed a little longer getting involved...

But Russia has jack-sh!+

…China maybe but hard to get y’all interested there.

No need to worry about Russia, Trump and Putin are "friends" Nothing to see here, move along

To be honest Steve. While Putin is a jack-booted thug and I would happily trip the lever on the gallows to hang the SOB…Russia is very little threat militarily. We’ve all seen it now. If Trump talks him into retiring into his hole…so be it…we are all better off. Sending new blades to the meat grinder ain’t helping. Zelensky is not a saint.

The horse doctor is ready to pick up a rifle.

Lane, you make me laugh. I'm going to remind you about trump talking Putin into "retiring into his hole"....after you jack-wagons back out of Ukraine and let trump let Putin have his way.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Not impossible.

How much are you going to let them take?

Yeah, 400B euro from other nations and whatever it has cost Ukraine in destroyed cities, land, income, exports, and most of all lives. And that's just in halting Russia and incrementally bleeding them dry over a long timeframe. It takes 5 or more years to crush and collapse a war economy if history is anything to go by.
Russia isn't everything the world thought they were before all this. But they are still a major threat because they will willingly expend their people.

And the world does not need to be told how useless America is in its illegal foreign wars either!

They a fantastic track record of being soundly beaten and cowardly sent home, leaving billions of their military equipment behind!

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
How much more money do you lefties want to send Ukraine????? We've sent billions and is Ukraine free?

We have citizens, tax paying citizens, in North Carolina, Florida and kookiphonia, that need help. Russia is not beating on our door.

Exactly how much is Europe, you know the people close to Russia, how much are they sacrificing?????

You're OK with Putin invading another sovereign country and taking that country's land by force?

My view of it is that we should confront Putin at every opportunity and thwart his plans to return Russia to being a world power. Because, that is exactly what he wants to do. He is old school KGB.

How much money and American blood will be spent when Putin continues to devour Europe?

Impossible…we all know it now. Russia was a paper tiger.

Looking how well Ukraine has done.....the French might even to be able to slow Russia down for a week or two!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Not impossible.

How much are you going to let them take?

Yeah, 400B euro from other nations and whatever it has cost Ukraine in destroyed cities, land, income, exports, and most of all lives. And that's just in halting Russia and incrementally bleeding them dry over a long timeframe. It takes 5 or more years to crush and collapse a war economy if history is anything to go by.
Russia isn't everything the world thought they were before all this. But they are still a major threat because they will willingly expend their people.

And the world does not need to be told how useless America is in its illegal foreign wars either!

They a fantastic track record of being soundly beaten and cowardly sent home, leaving billions of their military equipment behind!

Did anyone hear a yappy furriner!!!!!

.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
How much more money do you lefties want to send Ukraine????? We've sent billions and is Ukraine free?

We have citizens, tax paying citizens, in North Carolina, Florida and kookiphonia, that need help. Russia is not beating on our door.

Exactly how much is Europe, you know the people close to Russia, how much are they sacrificing?????

You're OK with Putin invading another sovereign country and taking that country's land by force?

My view of it is that we should confront Putin at every opportunity and thwart his plans to return Russia to being a world power. Because, that is exactly what he wants to do. He is old school KGB.

How much money and American blood will be spent when Putin continues to devour Europe?

I don’t think he has the ability, certainly not now Ukraine has destroyed a chunk of his military machine.

Lane is correct that China is a much more capable long term threat, but that doesn’t mean turning your back on Ukraine is the right thing to do. If anything it shows China that US support is fickle and the US may well not have the stomach to support Taiwan (or whoever) esp if Trump is at the helm.

President Jefferson warned us about Foreign Entanglements.

In 200 years nothing has changed, the same "old school" European grousing and infighting is there. How Britain hasn't used the Chunnel to invade France again or vis versa i dunno, but it's coming!

I wouldn't say we shouldn't support Ukraine, but they haven't changed, Ukraine is still a very corrupt oligarchy. And Ukraine has been in and out of Russian rule for centuries. And we're not the world police! America hardly understands the politics within its borders, much less half a world away. And Russia hasn't demonstrated itself to be capable of much of anything! Vlad is a loser! It's been said repeatedly here that Vlad intends to take over more of Europe, fine,....how? Given his demonstrated performance in Ukraine, exactly how would Vlad achieve success elsewhere?

Vlad is the transgender of European politics. Vlad insists he's a man, wants everyone to think he's a man, tells everyone to refer to him as a man but he simply isn't.

It is absolutely not the same European grousing Scott.

Since ww2 there have been no major conflicts in Western Europe, the longest period of continuous peace since the Roman occupation, circa 2000 years. As far as I am concerned this is the biggest benefit to come out of the EU and NATO.

My generation haven’t fought in wars on our own doorstep, haven’t faced conscription, haven’t faced the prospect of invasion.

I’d very much like that to continue.

You guys had Yugoslavia, America had to come over. You guys had a dust up in Georgia, Ireland vs Britain, and now Ukraine for more than 10 years I think.

It makes no more sense for the United States to entangle ourselves in Europe than it would for Australia or China.

I'm glad the NATO alliance works, truly, but I'd like my nation find other things to do than fight.

I take your point Scott, but I don’t view the balkans as Western Europe. Western Europe has been a constant battleground for 2000 years but peaceful since the end of WW2, thanks to NATO and the EU.

https://www.brusselstimes.com/...ngest-peacetime-ever

And as for the Northern Ireland troubles, that wasn’t a war between the UK and Ireland, it was terrorism and sadly part of the IRA funding came from the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NORAID

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Not impossible.

How much are you going to let them take?

Yeah, 400B euro from other nations and whatever it has cost Ukraine in destroyed cities, land, income, exports, and most of all lives. And that's just in halting Russia and incrementally bleeding them dry over a long timeframe. It takes 5 or more years to crush and collapse a war economy if history is anything to go by.
Russia isn't everything the world thought they were before all this. But they are still a major threat because they will willingly expend their people.

And the world does not need to be told how useless America is in its illegal foreign wars either!

They a fantastic track record of being soundly beaten and cowardly sent home, leaving billions of their military equipment behind!

Did anyone hear a yappy furriner!!!!!

.

Yes.

Both him and all the world knows what had happened.

Has become a habit for you.

To get your sorry arse handed to you!

By the way, how does it feel having a draft dodging coward being your commander in chief??

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
The issue is not what Putin won’t give back in a negotiated peace. The issue is Ukraine being excluded from the process.

That is inexcusable.

Many of you WOKE Democrats are only worried about your BOOGIE MAN Trump and trying to degrade any positive work on his part. Most WOKES like you Heym have zero ability to comprehend what all is involved ,dealing with a high level international negotiation with egos at this level. Your boy O’Biden who you WOKES all supported didn’t even have the balls or intellect to dial up Putin in four years to even have a dialogue.

Hey 4WD,,

Now that you are back, How about you post up a hunt report from the last couple of years for me to read by way of reciprocation. Been asking for a while.

The Puppet is no longer required!

quote:

Originally posted by 4WD:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
The issue is not what Putin won’t give back in a negotiated peace. The issue is Ukraine being excluded from the process.

That is inexcusable.

Many of you WOKE Democrats are only worried about your BOOGIE MAN Trump and trying to degrade any positive work on his part. Most WOKES like you Heym have zero ability to comprehend what all is involved ,dealing with a high level international negotiation with egos at this level. Your boy O’Biden who you WOKES all supported didn’t even have the balls or intellect to dial up Putin in four years to even have a dialogue.

Yeah, surrendering a country without that country at the table while it still fighting is not powers. History rightly condemns Chamberlin for such.

Unbiased question
Russian let Ukraine become independent without any kinda conflict
20 years later, Ukraine went sideways on Russian provinces when they tried to have autonomy from central government in Kiev
Anyone ever looked at that that way?

quote:

Originally posted by M.Shy:
Unbiased question
Russian let Ukraine become independent without any kinda conflict
20 years later, Ukraine went sideways on Russian provinces when they tried to have autonomy from central government in Kiev
Anyone ever looked at that that way?

You seem to have your blinkers on in framing that question.

It’s not “Russia let Ukraine become independent without conflict” it’s Russia wasn’t able to prevent the various states who’d had a Russian boot on their necks from declaring independence. On doing so Ukraine had possession of lots of Russian nukes which had been based in Ukraine. It was the world’s third largest nuke arsenal, almost 2000 nukes.

Ukraine agreed to give them back in a deal signed in Budapest in the early 90’s - look up the Budapest memorandum or whatever they are called, in return for which Russia ( and USA and UK ) recognised the sovereignty and boarders of Ukraine. As of this point Ukraine as a sovereign nation could do whatever it wanted, irrespective of what Vlad thinks or wants. That is the only way to look at it as those are the facts.

quote:

Originally posted by 4WD:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
The issue is not what Putin won’t give back in a negotiated peace. The issue is Ukraine being excluded from the process.

That is inexcusable.

Many of you WOKE Democrats are only worried about your BOOGIE MAN Trump and trying to degrade any positive work on his part. Most WOKES like you Heym have zero ability to comprehend what all is involved ,dealing with a high level international negotiation with egos at this level. Your boy O’Biden who you WOKES all supported didn’t even have the balls or intellect to dial up Putin in four years to even have a dialogue.

Edited, I shouldn’t give in to temptation and make fun of people.

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by M.Shy:
Unbiased question
Russian let Ukraine become independent without any kinda conflict
20 years later, Ukraine went sideways on Russian provinces when they tried to have autonomy from central government in Kiev
Anyone ever looked at that that way?

You seem to have your blinkers on in framing that question.

It’s not “Russia let Ukraine become independent without conflict” it’s Russia wasn’t able to prevent the various states who’d had a Russian boot on their necks from declaring independence. On doing so Ukraine had possession of lots of Russian nukes which had been based in Ukraine. It was the world’s third largest nuke arsenal, almost 2000 nukes.

Ukraine agreed to give them back in a deal signed in Budapest in the early 90’s - look up the Budapest memorandum or whatever they are called, in return for which Russia ( and USA and UK ) recognised the sovereignty and boarders of Ukraine. As of this point Ukraine as a sovereign nation could do whatever it wanted, irrespective of what Vlad thinks or wants. That is the only way to look at it as those are the facts.

Not looking for an argument or insults, just asked a question is all

Not answering it is OK

Firstly, they were not Russian provinces, they were Ukraine’s by mutual agreement and then repeated in the Budapest agreement.

Ukraine has issues with corrupt governments and wasn’t paying pensions was the major concern in the separatist regions.

This certainly made Russia’s job of inciting unrest easier.

Putin invaded for his own reasons. The ones given except for his desire for a disarmed buffer area around Russia all ring quite hollow.

Ukraine was nowhere near becoming a NATO member- see corruption. While Zelensky was looking to the west more than the East, Ukraine still did more business with Russia than anyone else.

The biggest issue I have with Ukraine was their political meddling in US politics. Hiring Hunter Biden as an energy consultant reeks of political payola. While there has never been proof Joe Biden was involved, it’s pretty obvious that Burisma THOUGHT they were getting access to the US political system. Then to have Ukraine stonewall on this?

Now they can’t account for $100 billion in funds…

Yet both the Ukrainians and the Biden admin refused to try and put monitors in the aid funds.

While Europe has donated quite a bit of money, it’s mostly to nebulous economic aid and not weapons. If there isn’t even more corruption on the nonmilitary side I would be surprised.

I agree that Ukraine needs to find the terms acceptable, and frankly, if they don’t, Trumps plain isn’t going to work.

I’d call Trump’s negotiations with Russia a starting point, not a done deal.

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by M.Shy:
Unbiased question
Russian let Ukraine become independent without any kinda conflict
20 years later, Ukraine went sideways on Russian provinces when they tried to have autonomy from central government in Kiev
Anyone ever looked at that that way?

You seem to have your blinkers on in framing that question.

It’s not “Russia let Ukraine become independent without conflict” it’s Russia wasn’t able to prevent the various states who’d had a Russian boot on their necks from declaring independence. On doing so Ukraine had possession of lots of Russian nukes which had been based in Ukraine. It was the world’s third largest nuke arsenal, almost 2000 nukes.

Ukraine agreed to give them back in a deal signed in Budapest in the early 90’s - look up the Budapest memorandum or whatever they are called, in return for which Russia ( and USA and UK ) recognised the sovereignty and boarders of Ukraine. As of this point Ukraine as a sovereign nation could do whatever it wanted, irrespective of what Vlad thinks or wants. That is the only way to look at it as those are the facts.

exactly what trump is trying to do with canada and saving us from communism lol

quote:

Originally posted by M.Shy:
Unbiased question
Russian let Ukraine become independent without any kinda conflict
20 years later, Ukraine went sideways on Russian provinces when they tried to have autonomy from central government in Kiev
Anyone ever looked at that that way?

Only Russian trolls

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by M.Shy:
Unbiased question
Russian let Ukraine become independent without any kinda conflict
20 years later, Ukraine went sideways on Russian provinces when they tried to have autonomy from central government in Kiev
Anyone ever looked at that that way?

You seem to have your blinkers on in framing that question.

It’s not “Russia let Ukraine become independent without conflict” it’s Russia wasn’t able to prevent the various states who’d had a Russian boot on their necks from declaring independence. On doing so Ukraine had possession of lots of Russian nukes which had been based in Ukraine. It was the world’s third largest nuke arsenal, almost 2000 nukes.

Ukraine agreed to give them back in a deal signed in Budapest in the early 90’s - look up the Budapest memorandum or whatever they are called, in return for which Russia ( and USA and UK ) recognised the sovereignty and boarders of Ukraine. As of this point Ukraine as a sovereign nation could do whatever it wanted, irrespective of what Vlad thinks or wants. That is the only way to look at it as those are the facts.

exactly what trump is trying to do with canada and saving us from communism lol

The Budapest Accord was never ratified by the US.

If America had a legal obligation it'd be a different story, but i don't so it isn't.

Ya'll are talking nonsense, Trump said he'd end that war in 24 hours, and he's been in office for weeks.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by M.Shy:
Unbiased question
Russian let Ukraine become independent without any kinda conflict
20 years later, Ukraine went sideways on Russian provinces when they tried to have autonomy from central government in Kiev
Anyone ever looked at that that way?

You seem to have your blinkers on in framing that question.

It’s not “Russia let Ukraine become independent without conflict” it’s Russia wasn’t able to prevent the various states who’d had a Russian boot on their necks from declaring independence. On doing so Ukraine had possession of lots of Russian nukes which had been based in Ukraine. It was the world’s third largest nuke arsenal, almost 2000 nukes.

Ukraine agreed to give them back in a deal signed in Budapest in the early 90’s - look up the Budapest memorandum or whatever they are called, in return for which Russia ( and USA and UK ) recognised the sovereignty and boarders of Ukraine. As of this point Ukraine as a sovereign nation could do whatever it wanted, irrespective of what Vlad thinks or wants. That is the only way to look at it as those are the facts.

exactly what trump is trying to do with canada and saving us from communism lol

The Budapest Accord was never ratified by the US.

If America had a legal obligation it'd be a different story, but i don't so it isn't.

sorry you are not aware but Blinken signed for usa ...in 1994 as well START1 in lisbon ... i suggest you to re-read the whole budapest protocol and memorandums ... and which countries signed ... but that will be not the first time your country is not accepting or respecting their own signature ....