There a lot going on about the border, and the packaged bill (border, Ukraine, Tiwan, Isreal, etc., etc.) that Trumpsters are thwarting in congress.

Too much info, mixed with BS and nonsense emotion.

Then there's the truckers, on God's mission to take back the border.

Anyway, here's an article from NYT that I think is very good:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/0...grp=a&smid=url-share

How the Border Crisis Shattered Biden’s Immigration Hopes

An examination of President Biden’s record reveals how he failed to overcome a surge in new arrivals and political obstacles in both parties.

Also:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...28d7a3caba4f9b&ei=43

Why Mike Johnson Is Praying the Senate Doesn’t Pass the Immigration Bill
Story by Jim Newell • 14h

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...48a28f7aa7a147&ei=23

The Republicans’ Border Crisis

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...48a28f7aa7a147&ei=19

Border Convoy Grows Significantly as It Rolls Toward Texas: 'We Have to Protect Our House'
Story by Warner Todd Huston • 1h

The USA is being overwhelmed.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Hunting the Border Page 5

That looks like an interesting article. I have to enlarge it to read it, but I will.

Meanwhile what did you think of the NYT article?

It's long but very straight and informative.

I've quit arguing with you about the "border crisis".

But, why can't you support a bipartisan solution?

Why must you (plural) make it zero-sum and extreme?

In my book of right and wrong, this is a humanitarian crisis first, economics second, and political down the list.

It's a failure because of politics, the end justifies the means. The means is to stonewall bipartisan solutions for the end of political currency, hyped blame, etc.

Clearly, GOPers have figured any win for Biden is a loss for them. Never mind the human aspects of the crisis itself - use it to advantage to win election.

GOPers and DEMers could choke up a mutual win on this, neutralize it politically, form solutions, by cooperating, except for the one thing of zero-sum GOPer and Trump mindset.

I'm sure you know, it's too clear to not know, that Dems/Biden Admin have not - never have - treated this situation as zero-sum politically or otherwise. Instead, they have consistently resisted and tried to work around GOPer zero-sum. As I recall Dems have been trying to get bipartisan border deals for 30 years.

Trump can't run on character because he has none.

Trump can't run on the economy because it's doing better than his ever did.

Trump can't run on foreign policy because it's obvious to everybody but MAGA that he prefers dictators like Putin and Kim to democracy.

If the Republicans in the House don't worsen and perpetuate the situation at the border Trump has nothing to try to run on.

Hopefully they pay all down the ballot in November.

The MAGAts in the House want to impeach Secretary Mayorkas; from his letter to the Committee:

quote:

The problems with our broken and outdated immigration system are not new. 1 assumed office in February 2021. Immigration cases concluded that year reportedly had been languishing in court for an average of 1,319 days. In 2010, that average was 347 days. The Department of Justice's Executive Office for Immigration Review reports that at the end ofFiscal Year 2020, there were 1,261,144 cases in the immigration court backlog. In 2017 that number was 656,383. The DHS Office of Immigration Statistics reported that there were approximately 11.4 million undocumented individuals present in the United States in 2018. Our immigration laws last received an overhaul in 1996. Our immigration laws were simply not built for 21% century migration patterns.

The backlog under Trump increased from 347 days to 1,319 days. Cases awaiting Court went from 656,383 to 1,261,144, under Trump.

Read the entire letter:

Link

People should apply for asylum at the US embassy in their own country, not come here illegally assuming they will get to stay.

Our border should be closed by any means possible.

While several here have consistently denied it this glut of illegals takes resources away from our own citizens. They are housed, fed and given medical attention above our own. Illegals also commit crimes and belong to gangs. Illegals also bring drugs. Illegals also consist of terrorists.

Illegals have nothing to contribute to the USA.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
People should apply for asylum at the US embassy in their own country, not come here illegally assuming they will get to stay.

Our border should be closed by any means possible.

While several here have consistently denied it this glut of illegals takes resources away from our own citizens. They are housed, fed and given medical attention above our own. Illegals also commit crimes and belong to gangs. Illegals also bring drugs. Illegals also consist of terrorists.

Illegals have nothing to contribute to the USA.

You are simply showing your ignorance again, asylum can ONLY be applied for by being IN the United States, by Law.

As for crime:

quote:

Relative to undocumented immigrants, U.S.-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes.

Link

It must be exhausting being wrong EVERY TIME you shoot your mouth off.

Get some rest.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...4823189d40d52ad&ei=9

Why Republicans Don’t Want To Solve the Border Problem
Story by Jonathan Chait • 5h

Trump had agreements with Mexico ( we already have one with Canada) for first country asylum.
If a migrant passes through Canada, and Mexico pre Biden, to the US for asylum, they can be shipped back to that country.
Should still be that way.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
People should apply for asylum at the US embassy in their own country, not come here illegally assuming they will get to stay.

Our border should be closed by any means possible.

While several here have consistently denied it this glut of illegals takes resources away from our own citizens. They are housed, fed and given medical attention above our own. Illegals also commit crimes and belong to gangs. Illegals also bring drugs. Illegals also consist of terrorists.

Illegals have nothing to contribute to the USA.

You are simply showing your ignorance again, asylum can ONLY be applied for by being IN the United States, by Law.

As for crime:

quote:

Relative to undocumented immigrants, U.S.-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes.

Link

It must be exhausting being wrong EVERY TIME you shoot your mouth off.

Get some rest.

I have plenty of friends who were granted asylum. They applied in their country of origin. They did not come here illegally and then apply.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Trump had agreements with Mexico ( we already have one with Canada) for first country asylum.
If a migrant passes through Canada, and Mexico pre Biden, to the US for asylum, they can be shipped back to that country.
Should still be that way.

BREAKING NEWS!!

Trump lost.

What a dumb ass you can be jeffi.
What part of, "it still should be" was to hard for you?
It would cut the numbers tremendously.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
What a dumb ass you can be jeffi.
What part of, "it still should be" was to hard for you?
It would cut the numbers tremendously.

From above:
"The backlog under Trump increased from 347 days to 1,319 days. Cases awaiting Court went from 656,383 to 1,261,144, under Trump."

I'm starting to think you just like being slapped with your own ignorance.

Switch off Fox News, it's degrading what little brain you have left.

And once more dumb fuck. I dont have cable, cant get fox news.
It would cut the numbers we are getting now at the border, from 90 something countries.
Does being stupid come natural, or do you work at it?

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
And once more dumb fuck. I dont have cable, cant get fox news.
It would cut the numbers we are getting now at the border, from 90 something countries.
Does being stupid come natural, or do you work at it?

Trump's policies didn't reduce immigration, but if Biden would just follow Trump's policies the result would be different?

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
And once more dumb f*ck. I dont have cable, cant get fox news.
It would cut the numbers we are getting now at the border, from 90 something countries.
Does being stupid come natural, or do you work at it?

Trump's policies didn't reduce immigration, but if Biden would just follow Trump's policies the result would be different?

Yeah, that's why the FACTS show that Trump's policies reduced illegal aliens, over a sustained period of time.. then came biden ...

but, back in peckerwood county, i guess ya'll don't have access to actual facts.. or i guess it takes awhile for the telegraph to bring in the news -- BTW, The South lost --- I know, but that's the new news, go ahead and spread that around peckerwood wounty

The other peckerwoods are complaining jeffi is giving them a bad name.

I can’t see how you can be so upset re the Republican position when very clearly Biden is saying he will make nice re the border once they give him what he wants for spending.

Note that he could do what Trump had done, or deal with putting the border back to the way it was prior to his administration as he did what he did via executive order.

Given he isn’t following pre existing law and policy, I’m not so trusting he would do what he says. He already said that he was doing right by the border, so I don’t trust him there.

Pass a law re the immigration situation and let him obey it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...617a301d885e46&ei=31

US Senate’s Border, Ukraine Aid Deal on Path for Vote Next Week
Story by Erik Wasson • 2h

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...37730e897d3bbb&ei=37

'Decision time': Dem challenges GOP with release date of bipartisan border and Ukraine bill
Story by David Badash, The New Civil Rights Movement • 4h

“Republicans said the border is a priority and we should craft a bipartisan bill to help control the border,” Sen. Murphy, the Democrats’ lead negotiator on the legislation declared, throwing down the gauntlet. “We did that. We have a deal.”

“This weekend we will release the bill and vote next week,” Murphy said, although some reports state it could come as soon as Friday evening. “It’s decision time.”

Senate Republican Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, once a stalwart supporter of aid to Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan, last week told his members the “Politics on this have changed,” and he no longer thought passing the legislation he publicly supported — jointly with Senate Democratic Majority Leader Chuck Schumer – would be possible.

“We don’t want to do anything to undermine” Donald Trump, McConnell told his members.

“This is a big about-face for McConnell,” Punchbowl News had reprinted, noting the Minority Leader had “said Congress needs to pass the border security bill and unlock billions of dollars in new Ukraine aid.”

“In effectively backing away from the border-security-for-Ukraine construct that Hill Republicans clung to for the last few months, McConnell is acknowledging Trump’s continued stranglehold on the GOP. He referred to Trump as ‘the nominee’ during the closed-door session,” Punchbowl added.

Trump has repeatedly and very publicly denounced any border legislation that is not “perfect,” because he wants to have the issue of the border, illegal immigration, and immigrants to run on, just as he did when he launched his first presidential campaign in 2015.

This week, after noting the text of the bill had not been released, Trump then went on to tell Fox News Business’ Maria Bartiromo that any Republican who votes for the bill “should be ashamed” because “it’s a very weak deal,” without the text of the bill having been released.

U.S. Senator James Lankford (R-OK) a hard core conservative, was the Republican lead on the bill.

David Rothkopf, the noted foreign policy, national security and political affairs analyst and commentator made clear the stakes.

“This border bill will be a real moment of truth for the party that doesn’t know the meaning of the word,” he wrote, referring to Republicans. “Do they step up and take action to help solve what they have long said is America’s number one crisis or do they cynically punt to ‘help’ Trump politically?”

Last month Sen. Murphy laid out the stakes of the crisis in Ukraine and at the border.

I give zero effs for our politicians. Trying to negotiate a daily number of illegals is utter bullshit. The daily, monthly, yearly number of illegals should be zero.

Prove your case if you want to immigrate. If mowing Mitchell's lawn is a full time gig and you can live on it without B&E, murder, selling drugs, carjacking, kidnapping, etc., come on in but pay your way. Get on the tax rolls. Commit to being an American and nothing else. Isn't that easy?

There are several things about all this that I don't understand. Frankly, it not something I have researched and studied on until it started being a big issue, herein and elsewhere.

I see Spanish speaking people, families, etc., around here a lot, but we don't have a border with Mexico. Many are employed in ag somehow. I've never had any trouble.

Please pardon my ignorance by educating me.

First, I see the words "illegal" and "immigrants". They supposedly count the numbers crossing the border. I've read that they arrive by the bus loads. I've been assuming that the majority cross at designated checkpoints and if so how is that illegal? And why do they let them through if illegal?

I assume that the "illegals" are crossing elsewhere. If so, how are they counted?

You play ignorant ME and that makes you ignorant
Biden made border a fish net with holes big enough that you cannot see the net
My opinion, shut the border completely and figure what’s next
Don’t give Biden any more money period as he’ll forget where he put it
You guys call Trump idiot and tyrant but Biden is a mushroom

Well, I did some research on my questions, but still not satisfied with the information yet. What I found are partial answers. Some articles were about why the surge. Some were about stats back in 2021. Some highlighted visa or temporary pass overstay, etc.

It's confusing. Some of the good articles give statistics, but they are dated, and I don't know how they related to the law that may have changed or the way its administered.

In researching, what I'm looking for are sources with the least probability of spin or slant. That narrows the field a lot.

Here's an article from CATO Institute, dated DECEMBER 16, 2022:

What Makes Crossing the Border Illegal? DHS Does

https://www.cato.org/blog/what...der-illegal-dhs-does


================================================

CATO Institute: (rated pretty good for a libertarian/conservative bunch)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cato_Institute

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

Some highlighted visa or temporary pass overstay, etc.

It's confusing

The data isn't hard to find, not if it confusing - while it may be inexact and have estimates, it's pretty darn unclear - why isn't it clear? read the report below, and read it like you are picking apart a fox article - This link says, clearly, that the DHS doesn't have a CLUE if the person left the country and didn't report it to DHS, and they state that clearly in their report - Let's be really clear on this report - there aren't any, in a meaningful way, arrests, tracking, investigations, or deportations from this group. If they are found out, they CAN be instructed to leave the county, and be "kicked" out of the country, if their country of origin both agrees and allows, or could be offered an extended visa -

quote:

https://www.dhs.gov/sites/defa..._Overstay_Report.pdf

It seems obvious to me that Biden opened the border wide and now after the fact is mumbling about bipartisan. There was an alien in New York the other day that assaulted a police officer and then was freed to walk the streets. How crazy can that be?
I think I saw New York is going to give out free credit cards to illegals? This has been debunked. Actually it looks true.

I love my neighbors, but I'd also be fine with setting the max for asylum seekers at 2 or 4 or 6 per year. "Sorry, we're maxed out for 2024, you may reapply in 2025. Would you like to apply for a work visa?"

https://www.cbsnews.com/newyor...ant-shelter-arrests/

Seriously!?!?!?!

Washington state diverted $340M in federal COVID funds to immigrants, including via $1,000 checks

https://www.foxnews.com/politi...ding-via-1000-checks

This popped up.

Jeff, why should it be more than 2 or 4 or 6? I don't think America was put here to fix the world's problems. If the Guatemalans don't like it there they can move to Costa Rica or Nicaragua. Hell, take a bus to Argentina.

Scott,
I think the first question should be "would you like to sign up for a work visa" and it should be fast, cheap, and electronic, and, of course, comes with a TIN -- and tax payment should be reviewed every year to keep it current -- not paying taxes? no renewal

on asylum seekers, i wonder if you made a typo, as you said 2-6, i was wondering if you that few?

hmm, the ny post is still carrying the story about the pre-paid visa cards - IDK how debunked but they should know more than i do

https://nypost.com/2024/02/02/...t-families-for-food/

https://youtube.com/shorts/97x...?si=n6xPBV8PPKVBg0qn

MAGA convoy makes it to the border only to find out the "invasion" doesn't exist

I think, but can't prove, that Trump's policies did deter some illegal immigration.

When you lock some of them up in cages, separate them from their kids, and treat them like animals, it's bound to have a deterrent effect.

All they have to do to deter immigrants at the border is put up a giant lighted bill board with a picture of Steven Miller.

Steven Miller is awesome!

Yea, he's awesome, but we have different reasons for thinking that.

I think monsters are awesome.

Trump hires the best monsters. Next time, they will all be sycophant monsters.

Anyway:

https://youtube.com/shorts/8P3...?si=XmbwBjLn1YHSHrgm

https://youtu.be/VmmL57WNXBc?si=z-anfImAlFdgm0RD

https://youtu.be/nVUpB1Zl4Nc?si=9q9b6ONeWgssCRfp

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...692c5ed37b0c8&ei=183

Leading GOP conservative faces political storm over border bill
Story by Al Weaver • 36m

Dems are like chicken little and sky ( Trump ) is falling
I keep picturing them running around like ants when you step on ant hill

Dehumanization is the thing for MAGA, by whatever means - imagination is the only limit.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Dehumanization is the thing for MAGA, by whatever means - imagination is the only limit.

Dems are that way
I see it around, they freak out about anything Republicans do and think it’s the end…

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Dehumanization is the thing for MAGA, by whatever means - imagination is the only limit.

you must be unaware at the staggering irony contain in this 1 sentence (and a phrase) - and to those of us that have read more than 5 posts, in your on-going personal behavior - i mean, the UTTER lack of self-awareness

I have no idea what you are talking about.



I don't have a cult leader who refers to others as vermin.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
I have no idea what you are talking about.



I don't have a cult leader who refers to others as vermin.

No, your "cult leaders" (you get that calling THEM a CULT is demonization of "other" right?) calls them deplorables, and must be sent to re-education camps

But you seriously don't get how your broad brush demonization of republicans is exactly the behavior that you are accusing the other side of doing ---

perhaps you need some light reading on the matter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonizing_the_enemy

btw, it's interesting that YOU, who opened up a post on, and talked about, what defines a cult, while "ignoring" any posts you disagreed with ... well, yeah, this isn't single instance behavior, that's all I am saying