…only nobody knows what it is, where it is, who leads it, or who belongs to it - because nobody does.

I suppose the point is that opposing fascism will not be tolerated when forming an authoritarian fascist regime is the administrations goal.

Dipshit might as well declare ghosts and goblins to be terrorists.

Opposition groups silenced. Media critics silenced. First Amendment attacked. Lackeys installed in key governmental positions. Military engaged in civilian roles. And the MAGAts just whistle past the graveyard blissfully unaware so it seems of the implications.

Who isn't anti-fascist?

Why, the wannabe fascists of course…

See, with a Putin or a Kim or a Xi running things, you’ll do just fine if you can worm your way into the ‘inner circle’. If you can’t buy your way in, or ass-kiss your way in, you end up being feed stock for those who did.

The MAGAts seem to think that if they suck hard enough that they’ll be ‘inner circle’ for sure, but that’s not quite how it works…in reality, not all dogs go to heaven.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Opposition groups silenced. Media critics silenced. First Amendment attacked. Lackeys installed in key governmental positions. Military engaged in civilian roles. And the MAGAts just whistle past the graveyard blissfully unaware so it seems of the implications.

Cult.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...xuP?ocid=socialshare

Trump sold Americans a 'fantasy' — and it’s now unraveling
Story by Alex Henderson • 4h •
3 min read

"The essence of President Trump's pitch to the American people last year was simple: They could have it both ways," Bouie explains. "They could have a powerful, revitalized economy and 'mass deportations now.' They could build new factories and take manufacturing jobs back from foreign competitors as well as expel every person who, in their view, didn't belong in the United States. They could live in a 'golden age' of plenty — and seal it away from others outside the country with a closed, hardened border."

One "binary choice," according to Bouie, was that "Americans could have a strong, growing economy, which requires immigration to bring in new people and fill demand for labor, or they could finance a deportation force and close the border to everyone but a small, select few."

"Millions of Americans embraced the fantasy," Bouie laments. "Now, about eight months into Trump's second term, the reality of the situation is inescapable. As promised, Trump launched a campaign of mass deportation. Our cities are crawling with masked federal agents, snatching anyone who looks 'illegal' to them — a bit of racial profiling that has, for now, been sanctioned by the Supreme Court. The jobs, however, haven't arrived."

The New York Times columnist continues, "There are fewer manufacturing jobs than there were in 2024, thanks in part to the president's tariffs and, well, his immigration policies…. To embrace nativism in a global, connected economic world is to sacrifice prosperity for the sake of exclusion, just as the main effect of racial segregation in the American South was to leave the region impoverished and underdeveloped."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/vide...mxW?ocid=socialshare

‘We Have No Choice’: Donald Trump’s Warning To American Voters About Tax Cuts For The Wealthy During The 2016 Election
President Donald Trump told Republican Primary voters that he had 'no choice' but to cut taxes for the wealthiest Americans during the 2016 Republican Primary debates.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Opposition groups silenced. Media critics silenced. First Amendment attacked. Lackeys installed in key governmental positions. Military engaged in civilian roles. And the MAGAts just whistle past the graveyard blissfully unaware so it seems of the implications.

Cult.

so true but imagine the numbers that were laughing at me when i started to talk about the followers of the cult of the supreme leader.

Nigeria and Zimbabwe are in awe!

Just prosecute the crimes and the funders of the crimes. Most Antifa people are just basement dwelling testosterone deficient soy positive cosplay kids who got bullied in school.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Nigeria and Zimbabwe are in awe!

So is Orban:

Following Trump, Orban says Hungary will designate Antifa a terrorist group

https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/19...-hungary-antifa-intl

============================================

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/0..._aYxq&smid=url-share

Can Trump Actually Designate Antifa a Terrorist Group? Here Are the Facts.
The president made the same declaration in 2020, but nothing came of it. His new declaration came amid broader threats against liberals after the Charlie Kirk killing.

By Charlie Savage
Charlie Savage writes about national security legal policy. He reported from Washington.

Sept. 18, 2025

President Trump declared late Wednesday that he was designating the antifa movement a terrorist organization, amid a broader effort by his administration to threaten liberal protesters and donors to progressive groups after the killing of the conservative activist Charlie Kirk.

Mr. Trump had made the same declaration in May 2020, but nothing came of it. And there are major factual and legal challenges to any government effort to formally designate antifa a terrorist group in any substantive way.

Here is a closer look.

What is antifa?
It is a diffuse and sometimes violent protest culture of far-left activists who want to stop the far right. The movement is associated with an aggressive form of protest its adherents call “direct action,” which can sometimes cross the line into illegal or violent activity like breaking store windows or setting police cars on fire.

“‘Antifa’ is short for antifascist and is most often used to reference activists and protesters who support more direct methods of confronting the far right,” said Jared Holt, a researcher of extremist movements at Open Measures, a company that monitors influence operations online. “Some who have self-labeled with the term have engaged in threatening or violent behaviors, but those individuals represent a small number of people who self-identify with the term.”

Is antifa actually an organization?

No.

Antifa is a label for a political subculture or protest style. The phenomenon does not have a leader, an initiation process, membership rolls, a headquarters, a bank account or a centralized structure.

Cynthia Miller-Idriss, an American University professor who studies domestic extremism, said antifa was an idea that could mobilize people. She compared it to concepts or ideologies like “white supremacy” and “Islamist extremism,” as distinguished from specific groups like the Aryan Brotherhood or Al Qaeda.

“There may be little groups organized around antifa in a neighborhood or community that meet up and share that stance, but it would be very hard to see that as connected in an organizational form that could be tackled,” she said, adding, “There is no expert I’ve ever heard of who has identified antifa as an actual organization.”

What did Trump say?
He announced the designation on his social media platform and threatened to investigate anyone funding antifa.

“I am pleased to inform our many U.S.A. Patriots that I am designating ANTIFA, A SICK, DANGEROUS, RADICAL LEFT DISASTER, AS A MAJOR TERRORIST ORGANIZATION,” he wrote. “I will also be strongly recommending that those funding ANTIFA be thoroughly investigated in accordance with the highest legal standards and practices.”

Can the U.S. designate domestic groups as terrorists?
No.

Federal law empowers the executive branch to deem overseas groups “foreign terrorist organizations.” The law gives such groups a due process right to hearings to challenge the designation. If the designation stands, the status allows the government to freeze such groups’ assets and makes it a crime to provide material support to them.

But there is no equivalent domestic terrorism law, noted Mary McCord, a former acting head of the Justice Department’s national security division during the tail end of the Obama administration and opening months of the first Trump administration.

“Trump can declare whatever he wants to declare, but there is no legal authority to actually designate a domestic group as a terrorist organization even assuming that antifa is an organization and not just an ideology,” she said. “That means his declaring this has no legal impact. Certainly it does not trigger criminal terrorism charges, like providing material support to a foreign terrorist organization.”

Would the Constitution allow this?
First Amendment protections for freedom of speech and association would probably bar any attempt by Congress to enact a statute allowing the government to designate domestic groups as terrorist organizations and make it a crime to help them, legal specialists say.

In a 2010 case in which the Supreme Court upheld the prosecution of a charity for steering funds to a designated foreign terrorist organization, Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. distinguished the matter from sending funds to a domestic organization.

Hypothetical attempts to criminalize support for designated terrorist groups under different circumstances might not “survive First Amendment scrutiny,” he wrote, adding, “We also do not suggest that Congress could extend the same prohibition on material support at issue here to domestic organizations.”

Because of First Amendment concerns, when the F.B.I. has carried out what are effectively domestic terrorism investigations into neo-Nazi organizations like the Base and Atomwaffen Division, it has instead treated them as criminal enterprises.

What was the context of Trump’s declaration?

Mr. Trump and his administration are using the killing of Mr. Kirk — and criticism of Mr. Kirk from some liberals — to threaten to use federal power to punish what it claims without evidence is a vast left-wing network that funds and incites violence. Democrats have warned that Mr. Trump appears to be using the killing as a pretext to suppress political dissent.

Among other things, Mr. Trump has also said the Justice Department would conduct a racketeering investigation into George Soros, the billionaire who funds civil-society and liberal causes, accusing him without evidence of paying people to riot. Attorney General Pam Bondi threatened to “go after you if you are targeting anyone with hate speech,” which as a matter of basic First Amendment law would be unconstitutional. Brendan Carr, the Federal Communications Commission chairman, threatened ABC over remarks by the late-night host Jimmy Kimmel, and the network took him off the air.

Against that backdrop, Mr. Trump’s declaration that he would designate antifa a terrorist organization was greeted with praise by various Republican lawmakers.

What happened last time?
Nothing — but Mr. Trump is less constrained now.

In May 2020, as the Black Lives Matter protests swelled after the videotaped police killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis and some protests were marred by rioting, Mr. Trump declared on social media that the federal government “will be designating ANTIFA as a Terrorist Organization.”

The first Trump administration did not follow through on his declaration. But that does not mean that the second Trump administration will not try to do so this time — even if there is no clear legal or factual basis to justify such a declaration. Mr. Trump and his team have systematically sought to install loyalists in his second term who would not seek to constrain him.

For example, back in 2020, Mr. Trump wanted to use the military against protesters, but his administration did not follow through after his top aides resisted. But in June, after some protests against his immigration crackdown in Los Angeles turned violent, Mr. Trump sent federal troops into the streets of that city to suppress the demonstrations — and then continued to use them for police functions for months, in a way a judge has ruled illegal. The administration has appealed that ruling.

Notably, the second Trump administration has already been pushing the limits of the president’s terrorism designation powers by declaring various foreign criminal gangs and drug cartels to be foreign terrorist organizations, even though they are motivated by profit, not religion or ideology.

My way of seeing antifa is they are the epitome of fasistic mind So no matter the political,leaning we should all condemn those

quote:

Originally posted by M.Shy:
My way of seeing antifa is they are the epitome of fasistic mind So no matter the political,leaning we should all condemn those

So, from your post I can correctly infer that you are anti-fascist.

Do you know that Antifa is literally anti-fascist? That's their self ID.

Hummm. Please explain the obvious contradiction in your POV.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Who isn't anti-fascist?

Fascistas can be either conservative or liberal.
The National Socialist Workers Party is an example (that turned out to be a misnomer).

quote:

Originally posted by TomP:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Who isn't anti-fascist?

Fascistas can be either conservative or liberal.
The National Socialist Workers Party is an example (that turned out to be a misnomer).

Is fascism left or right?

AI Overview
Historically, fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology. Mainstream scholars and historians classify it this way, though the term has been inaccurately applied by some to left-wing ideologies, confusing the term with authoritarianism.

Why fascism is classified as far-right:
The classification of fascism as far-right is based on its core tenets, which stand in stark opposition to the principles typically associated with the political left, such as egalitarianism and internationalism.

Key factors placing fascism on the far right include:
Hierarchical social order: While the political left fundamentally seeks to reduce social inequalities, fascism embraces and enforces a natural social hierarchy. This can be based on nationality, ethnicity, or loyalty to the leader, with the interests of individuals completely subordinated to the perceived interests of the nation or race.

Ultranationalism:
At its core, fascism is a form of hypernationalism that seeks to build an integrated nation-state by forcibly purging it of ethnic minorities and other "undesirable" elements. This is distinctly a right-wing attribute, as the left typically promotes international solidarity.

Opposition to left-wing movements:
Fascist movements arose in part as a violent reaction against communist and socialist movements in the 20th century. Figures like Italy's Mussolini and Germany's Hitler built their platforms on the promise of destroying Marxism and other leftist ideologies.

Contempt for democratic liberalism:
Fascists demonstrate contempt for electoral democracy and liberalism, instead favoring a totalitarian, one-party state with a dictatorial leader. This disregard for individual rights is a common feature of far-right authoritarianism.

Militarism and expansionism:
Violence is often celebrated as a tool for achieving national rejuvenation and expanding the nation through conquest and imperialist aggression.

Addressing common points of confusion:
Some points about fascism can lead to confusion regarding its place on the political spectrum:
Economic policies: Although fascists in power, like Mussolini, implemented state interventions in the economy, this is not a left-wing position. These economic controls were not intended for worker empowerment or equality, as in socialism, but rather to serve the national and military interests of the state. Private ownership was allowed but controlled by the state for state purposes, a system known as a dirigiste economy.

The "Socialist" label:
Critics sometimes cite the word "socialist" in the Nazi party's name (National Socialist German Workers' Party) to argue that fascism is left-wing. However, this is widely considered a misnomer used for propaganda purposes. The Nazis brutally suppressed Marxist and socialist parties upon gaining power and eliminated many of their own members who genuinely held socialist beliefs, such as during the Night of the Long Knives.

Authoritarianism vs. left-right axis: Authoritarianism, or the degree of state control, is a separate dimension from the left-right economic and social spectrum. Both left-wing ideologies (like Communism) and right-wing ideologies (like Fascism) can be authoritarian. Placing them side-by-side on a one-dimensional line can misleadingly suggest they are close ideologically when their core principles are fundamentally opposed.

https://www.google.com/search?...gHFg&sclient=gws-wiz

"Do you know that Antifa is literally anti-fascist? That's their self ID."

But I thought they didn't actually exist. That is what the left would have us believe. ANTIFA is not a group. It has no leadership and no members. It is only make-believe. Regards, Bill

Actually your definition is make-believe. BTW, part of the reason I post definitions a lot is because we really can't have a conversation unless we're on the same page with definitions. The Right makes up a lot of crap.

There is a lot of that melding into belief and discourse. That's part of the problem. There is also a lot of disinformation, misinformation, and a lot of it comes directly from Dear Leader.

This whole thing about Trump declaring Antifa a terrorist org is nothing but political circus.

AI Overview
Antifa, a term short for "anti-fascist," refers to a decentralized, leaderless protest movement, not a single, structured organization. It comprises autonomous groups and individuals on the political left, including anarchists, communists, and socialists, who oppose far-right and white supremacist ideologies.

Structure and ideology
Decentralized movement: Antifa lacks a central command, official membership, or unifying leadership. Local groups or "cells," like Portland's Rose City Antifa, operate autonomously, sharing resources and intelligence on far-right activities.

Anti-fascism: The core goal is to combat fascism and other oppressive systems like racism, sexism, and capitalism. Adherents believe that hate speech is not protected free speech and aim to shut down the public expression of such views.

Tactics: Actions range from peaceful community organizing and digital activism to more confrontational methods, including property damage, harassment, and physical violence, which its members justify as a form of self-defense. Activists often wear all-black clothing and masks, a tactic known as "black bloc," to protect their identities from law enforcement and political adversaries.

History: The movement's roots trace back to anti-fascist groups in 1920s Italy and 1930s Germany, and it was revitalized in the US in the 1980s by the Anti-Racist Action network. Its prominence grew significantly after the 2016 US presidential election and the 2017 Charlottesville rally.

Controversies and legal issues

Domestic terrorism designation: Some political figures, including Donald Trump, have repeatedly called for antifa to be labeled a domestic terrorist organization. However, legal and national security experts argue that there is no legal mechanism to designate a domestic ideology or movement in this way, which could also violate First Amendment rights.

Disproportionate threat assessment: Though some antifa adherents have engaged in violence, independent analyses by organizations like the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) suggest that far-right extremists pose a significantly greater terrorism threat in the U.S..

Conspiracy theories and disinformation: The movement has been the subject of numerous hoaxes and false claims, often originating from right-wing extremist groups, including being wrongly blamed for events like the January 6th Capitol riot and Western wildfires.

ANTIFA may well identify as anti fascist, but they share a lot of their behaviors with the neo Nazis.

Just because it’s a decentralized network doesn’t make it not an organization… communist cells in revolution look very similar.

The difference between fascists and communists actually is very minimal, just where they claim their authority comes from. Communists claim the worker proletariat (which is very vague) and the fascists claim the nation-state.

Both are authoritarian and run by a small cabal usually with a cult of personality figure as leader.

If the neo Nazis are a terror org, so is ANTIFA.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
ANTIFA may well identify as anti fascist, but they share a lot of their behaviors with the neo Nazis.

Just because it’s a decentralized network doesn’t make it not an organization… communist cells in revolution look very similar.

The difference between fascists and communists actually is very minimal, just where they claim their authority comes from. Communists claim the worker proletariat (which is very vague) and the fascists claim the nation-state.

Both are authoritarian and run by a small cabal usually with a cult of personality figure as leader.

If the neo Nazis are a terror org, so is ANTIFA.

are you willing to ban the supreme leader and his followers ... following your logic of course lol ...

Ban the supreme leader?

I don’t get it.

Neo Nazis and ANTIFA are essentially the same is what I said.

I don’t have an issue with either org being termed a terrorist organization.

That’s different than banning someone.

I don’t think Trump is a fascist.

That doesn’t make him a good president. It also doesn’t mean I agree with him about everything or anything.

If you want to prance around in a KGB or SS uniform, that doesn’t make you a member of either group.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Ban the supreme leader?

I don’t get it.

Neo Nazis and ANTIFA are essentially the same is what I said.

I don’t have an issue with either org being termed a terrorist organization.

That’s different than banning someone.

I don’t think Trump is a fascist.

That doesn’t make him a good president. It also doesn’t mean I agree with him about everything or anything.

If you want to prance around in a KGB or SS uniform, that doesn’t make you a member of either group.

you do not think trump is a facist? with all the messages sent, the control he want to have on your medias and the use of military power when it fits ... well wait a little longer and come back to re-assess your thinking ...

quote:

well wait a little longer and come back to re-assess your thinking ...

I said that, in similar words and meaning, to Doc Butler long ago. He hasn't changed his opinions as far as I can tell.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

I don’t get it.

Neo Nazis and ANTIFA are essentially the same is what I said.

That's right Doc. You don't get it. Why doesn't Trump declare these actual organized hate groups terrorist orgs? Could it be that he considers them his private militia on standby? Or could he and Wormtongue Miller know it's illegal to make such declaration and know its political theater? Or both?

Neo-Nazis and Antifa are not the same. That's another of your false equivalencies. They are even more polarized than the general population of leftists and rightists. Their ideology and goals are not the same. Their org structure is not comparable.

Excerpt:

https://www.splcenter.org/reso...mist-files/neo-nazi/

Neo-Nazi

Neo-Nazi groups share a hatred for Jews and a love for Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany. While they also hate nonwhite people, LGBTQ+ people and even sometimes Christians, they perceive “the Jew” as their cardinal enemy.

Top Takeaways
In an election year marked by extreme racist rhetoric and anti-immigrant sentiment, neo-Nazi groups found common cause with more mainstream right-wing groups. In Springfield, Ohio, radical-right figures and Republican politicians targeted the Haitian immigrant community with racist conspiracy theories that led to a rash of bomb threats, doxing (i.e., the act of posting someone’s personal information online) and demonstrations. Among those neo-Nazi groups that aided in this targeting Haitian immigrants and other members of the community in Ohio were members of Blood Tribe, the neo-Nazi group founded by Chris Pohlhaus.

Still, some groups in this ideology faced significant setbacks. Amid a series of arrests on criminal charges and civil cases, some prominent neo-Nazi groups withdrew their in-person activism or adapted their tactics.

2024 Neo-Nazi Hate Groups

2119 Blood and Soil Crew
Alabama
Pennsylvania
Texas

American Futurist
Michigan
Reno, Nevada
Ohio

American Nazi Party
New Hampshire

Aryan Freedom Network
Alabama
Florida
Georgia
Indiana
Minnesota
Montana
North Carolina
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
Texas
Utah

Atlantic Nationalist Club
Connecticut
New Jersey
New York

Blood Tribe
Ohio
South Dakota
Wisconsin

Church of Aryanity/Order of the Western Knights Templar
Kentucky

The Daily Stormer
Worthington, Ohio

Dissident Minds Books
Fairfield, California

Folkish Active Clubs
Kentucky
Massachusetts
Michigan
Minnesota
Mississippi
Tennessee
West Virginia

Hate Club
Missouri
Ohio

Injekt Division
Pennsylvania

National Alliance
Pennsylvania
Iowa
Mountain City, Tennessee

National Socialist German Workers Party
Lincoln, Nebraska

National Socialist Movement
Maricopa, Arizona
Highland City, Florida

Nationalist Social Club (NSC-131)
Massachusetts
Rhode Island

New England Minutemen
Massachusetts

New Order
Milwaukee, Wisconsin

North ‘Bama Brigade
Madison, Alabama

NS Publications
Wyandotte, Michigan

Order of the Black Sun
Florida
Pennsylvania
Texas

People’s Initiative of New England
Connecticut
Maine
Massachusetts
New Hampshire
Rhode Island

S14/National Socialist Youth Detachment
Pennsylvania

Third Reich Books
Fairbury, Nebraska

Vanguard News Network
Kirksville, Missouri

Vinland Rebels
Tennessee

Most Neo Nazi groups have already been declared terrorist organizations by U.S. law enforcement.

That they are similar is simply in their methods and authoritarian behavior.

“Who” they hate is a nonissue. They hate and behave badly because of it.

quote:

Most Neo Nazi groups have already been declared terrorist organizations by U.S. law enforcement.

AI Overview
The statement that most neo-Nazi groups have been declared terrorist organizations by U.S. law enforcement is false. While the U.S. government has designated a few specific foreign neo-Nazi groups as terrorist organizations, there is no legal mechanism to designate domestic groups in the same way.

Key differences in U.S. terrorism law:

The core of this issue is the legal distinction between foreign and domestic groups.

Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs): The State Department can designate foreign organizations as FTOs, which has significant legal consequences. This includes freezing their assets, banning members from entering the U.S., and prohibiting Americans from providing material support.

A few transnational neo-Nazi groups have been designated as FTOs:
Russian Imperial Movement (RIM): The U.S. designated this Russian ultranationalist group as a terrorist organization in 2020.
Nordic Resistance Movement (NRM): The Biden administration sanctioned this Scandinavian neo-Nazi group and several of its leaders in 2024.

Domestic organizations: There is no legal authority for the U.S. government to designate domestic organizations as terrorist groups. The First Amendment protections for freedom of speech and assembly make it legally challenging to create a similar designation for groups operating entirely within the U.S..

How U.S. law enforcement addresses domestic neo-Nazi groups:

Instead of designating entire groups, law enforcement primarily uses existing criminal statutes to prosecute individuals affiliated with these organizations for their specific violent or criminal acts.

Targeting violent crimes:
Federal and state charges can include hate crimes, weapons violations, conspiracy, murder, and providing material support for a foreign terrorist organization. For example, the FBI has arrested members of the Atomwaffen Division for cyberstalking and making threats.

Focus on individual accountability:
While neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups pose a significant threat, the U.S. legal system focuses on holding individual members accountable for their actions, rather than banning the organization as a whole.

quote:

That they are similar is simply in their methods and authoritarian behavior.

There is a major difference in opposing authoritarianism (fascism) and a goal to achieve it.

Your compulsion to make false equivalencies tempts me to be annoyed. But I overcome that by realizing that you actually provide real fodder for argument. IOW, I don't characterize your opinions as BS and dismiss them. That's because I consider them an opportunity to address common Rightist misconceptions.

So, you are appreciated, because you are perfect.

So because the USSR was communist, and Putin calls himself a socialist/communist, he’s ok in your book?

Trump is doing a lot of things I dislike. I didn’t support him in the last election. I voted bill the cat.

Is Trump playing with authoritarian behaviors? Yes.

He’s certainly more nationalistic than the one world types that dominate democrat circles.

Let’s try restating this…
Just because a left of center type calls someone a fascist or Nazi doesn’t make it so, and by using those words they are behaving like a real Nazi.

Ok, so they are domestic terror orgs or whatever it takes to put yourself on government watch lists.

AFAIC, same/same.

The FBI monitors you and tries to catch you doing something illegal and arrests you.

In my mind we should be using the same efforts with any/all political extremists. You use violence politically, you are beyond the pale in polite society.

AOC and such should be getting the same treatment as Boebert and such- public ridicule.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Most Neo Nazi groups have already been declared terrorist organizations by U.S. law enforcement.

AI Overview
The statement that most neo-Nazi groups have been declared terrorist organizations by U.S. law enforcement is false. While the U.S. government has designated a few specific foreign neo-Nazi groups as terrorist organizations, there is no legal mechanism to designate domestic groups in the same way.

Key differences in U.S. terrorism law:

The core of this issue is the legal distinction between foreign and domestic groups.

Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs): The State Department can designate foreign organizations as FTOs, which has significant legal consequences. This includes freezing their assets, banning members from entering the U.S., and prohibiting Americans from providing material support.

A few transnational neo-Nazi groups have been designated as FTOs:
Russian Imperial Movement (RIM): The U.S. designated this Russian ultranationalist group as a terrorist organization in 2020.
Nordic Resistance Movement (NRM): The Biden administration sanctioned this Scandinavian neo-Nazi group and several of its leaders in 2024.

Domestic organizations: There is no legal authority for the U.S. government to designate domestic organizations as terrorist groups. The First Amendment protections for freedom of speech and assembly make it legally challenging to create a similar designation for groups operating entirely within the U.S..

How U.S. law enforcement addresses domestic neo-Nazi groups:

Instead of designating entire groups, law enforcement primarily uses existing criminal statutes to prosecute individuals affiliated with these organizations for their specific violent or criminal acts.

Targeting violent crimes:
Federal and state charges can include hate crimes, weapons violations, conspiracy, murder, and providing material support for a foreign terrorist organization. For example, the FBI has arrested members of the Atomwaffen Division for cyberstalking and making threats.

Focus on individual accountability:
While neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups pose a significant threat, the U.S. legal system focuses on holding individual members accountable for their actions, rather than banning the organization as a whole.

Putin is never ok IMO.

I agree - simply calling someone or a movement Fascist or Nazi by someone like me (or you) certainly doesn't make it true. Nor does denial make it truth as in non-existential.

I absolutely rely on appeal to authority on this. Do you?

All the corrections I've posted to your claims are appeal to authority. I didn't make it up, and my preconception or belief has nothing to do with it. Can you claim the same?

I'm careful to use "IMO" (in my opinion), when not appealing to authority. Generally, I could back up my opinion with appeal to authority, but often just short-cut to opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
So because the USSR was communist, and Putin calls himself a socialist/communist, he’s ok in your book?

Trump is doing a lot of things I dislike. I didn’t support him in the last election. I voted bill the cat.

Is Trump playing with authoritarian behaviors? Yes.

He’s certainly more nationalistic than the one world types that dominate democrat circles.

Let’s try restating this…
Just because a left of center type calls someone a fascist or Nazi doesn’t make it so, and by using those words they are behaving like a real Nazi.

well who is a supporter of putin: the great trump ... you wont see me supporting trump or putin and for the same reason. ussr was the enemy when i was a kid and when i was in the army nothing changed for me but usa is not anymore the ally we had will it for nato or the economical side the fact that trump tried and thought about taking over a country is exactly the same as putin ... you can think it is great nationalism from your side as us citizen but as a canadian i do not see it the same way.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Ok, so they are domestic terror orgs or whatever it takes to put yourself on government watch lists.

AFAIC, same/same.

The FBI monitors you and tries to catch you doing something illegal and arrests you.

In my mind we should be using the same efforts with any/all political extremists. You use violence politically, you are beyond the pale in polite society.

AOC and such should be getting the same treatment as Boebert and such- public ridicule.

WOW, Doc., you are radical after all.

"we should be using the same efforts with any/all political extremists."

We are. Are we not? At least law enforcement used to, until Trump got the power. Now he pardons extremists and calls them patriots.

So, you characterize AOC and Boebert as political extremists?

I don't recall either inciting violence. IMO Boebert is just another nut bimbo who is in politics and attracts nutz. AOC may be considered far left but at least she's sane.

Dr. Butler, can you name three things Trump has done that you approve of?

Trump’s pardoning of all 1/6 arrestees is one of my dislikes for the guy.

His claim he would do so was one of about half a dozen things that made me not vote for him.

And no, until Trump got in, ANTIFA was not considered a threat by national LE.

As to Boebert and AOC, they are both fringe politicians. The fact that you consider Boebert a nut, and AOC as sane shows how far on the left you are. The two are about equally intelligent and extreme.

They are not extremists in the sense of ANTIFA or the Proud Boys, but in my mind that either got elected says mountains as to how Trump got elected… twice … and Biden got elected once.

Or if you want someone in my backyard, Ilhan Omar.

I wouldn’t say insane, or evil. Just very poor representation of the American people.

As to appeal to authority on Trump and fascism… I had a bunch of political science classes and history classes in college. One thing I learned is that as far as defining fascism there was a lot of disagreement over what it precisely was, and frankly I can find both physical paper support and plenty of online support for whatever claim you want to make of it.

Fundamentally, my position is that fascist/nazi is such a loaded term that unless you meet EVERY criteria, you are playing Josef Goebbels if you use it in modern politics.

Is Trump using some behaviors of Hitler’s rise to power? Yes. But frankly, name a politician who hasn’t. I’d agree that Trump has some troubling authoritarian behaviors, but again, that doesn’t make him fascist.

ANTIFA was originally the communist Brownshirt
Group in the Weimar Republic of Germany. Their behavior was part of why the Nazis got some of the support they did.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Dr. Butler, can you name three things Trump has done that you approve of?

Securing the southern border.

While I think he has gone too far in how he is doing it (extrajudicial behaviors) I agree with removing all illegal aliens. Note this is not anti immigrant, just anti uncontrolled immigration.

Tax relief, although that was his first term.

His biggest? He’s not Joe Biden giving cover for all these executive privilege left of center policies.

Frankly, there isn’t a lot I like about the guy.