The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading The Political Forum Freedom “of” Religion NOT Freedom “from” ReligionGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Lane, would have problem with a Muslim call to prayers in public school? | |||
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 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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^^ BS Mike | |||
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Sorry you didn't understand my analogy, but most here probably got it. Prayers in public events were never "deemed" Constitutional. The issue was never litigated before the last half century. I'd like to know whose prayers you want said? Shall they say "Hail Marys"? Or the Baptist version of the "Our Father." How about Buddhist prayers--are they okay? Is that something you'd want to listen to? I've heard Buddhist prayers, and don't want to have to listen to them at a high school football game. | |||
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You're out to lunch tonight. Schrodinger's question was right on topic: freedom of and from religion. Islam is a religion. I don't want to have to listen to Muslim calls to prayers. | |||
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Totally different topic but I will answer for you. When one closely examines the core beliefs of Muslims vs. Christians…you will find they are very similar. My son at age 13 could explain them if you asked him. Thus, I would rather he be exposed to Muslim prayer than no prayer at all. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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That is what before school prayer and Sunday's at church are for, you can keep your prayers out of public school, thank you very much. Lane continues to prove just how it important it is to fight this Christian Nationalism movement. | |||
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This ^^^ is the mindset that gives us killer kids. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Oh, I think the root of killer kids is much more complex than removing prayer from public schools. Morals should be taught at home, as should religion(the two are not the same). Not a thing wrong with prayer or religion but public schools are not the place for it. Teach your children right from wrong, embrace religion in your home with them but do not try to push it upon others. | |||
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The problem is that it is the minority of the population that does what you describe and it lessens yearly. The kids are innocent bystanders in the beginning. Better to get it somewhere than no where. While making killer kids maybe be more complex in its origins than simply the lacking religion…putting God back into their lives can overcome a lot of evils. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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The last klansman I know of dying was robert byrd .. you know, Joe and Killary's hero sure do see lots of antifa though opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Fight if you choose. It boils down to interpretation by 9. The interpretation may change in near future. I believe they got it wrong in the first challenges. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Oh I will fight, I see no other choice in the matter. The stacked SC may agree with you but the majority of the voters do not. Christian Nationalism needs to be stopped, I'll be doing my best to help. | |||
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The state is to remain neutral concerning Religion. Therefore, the state through the force of law cannot endorse anyone’s view on religion or a pure life based on that theology. That is the current S. Ct. Precedent; even with Justice Alito’s destruction of the analytical test. That is the way it needs to be. Or is clear to me Judicial Activism is alive and well among the Faction. I thought Conservatives did not like Judicial Activism? Praying in schools also violates compulsion to speak by the state. The quiz not totally different the law protects all because one day you may be outnumbered against the majority. Would you want/allow your son to be made to say an Islamic prayer? Or you Son be made to say a recreation mandated by the state against your Protestant beliefs? As for praying on your own in public? Go ahead, your business. | |||
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Interesting, Lane, not you are agreeing with some of the precepts of Islam. How about prayer in school where the religion is antithetical to your Christianity? Give me a break. Lack of prayer in school is not causing these kids to be killers. Where in the hell do you come up with these goofy ideas? Do you have scientific support for your position? | |||
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Tell me Steve, How would kids having a prayer adversely affect your ability to pursue life, liberty, and happiness? How would it affect you at all? How would you even know? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I advocate for the innocence of those children who have yet to have been indoctrinated by formal religion(see what I did there?). I would be affected the same way you would be affected by a young rape victim deciding to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. Forcing your religion on someone else through prayer in public school negatively affects everyone who does not believe that we do or should live in a Theocracy. | |||
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So in other words you would not be adversely affected at all…you just have a personal vendetta. Got it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| Moderator |
I'd be happy with the pledge of allegiance .. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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That would be a start. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Please tell us what causes killer kids and why they didn’t occur until the 1990s. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Isn't that incredible???? We know that in their heyday, when they where a powerful political movement the cluckers where democrats.....and today when the are "supposedly" Republicans they are basically non existent..... The democrat playbook rule #1: Blame the opposition for what you are doing! . | |||
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Ouch! Hitlery was also awful fond of Margaret sanger...... . | |||
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Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, everyone at Charlottesville. They are just clansmen by another name. I live in a Sunset Town, if you know what that means. Sen. Byrd was a hypocrite, clansman. There was a KKK rally at the Texas Capitol in 1995. There was a KKK rally in California last year. https://www.latimes.com/califo...each-white-supremacy | |||
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Some of the fellows here seem to be a little defensive acknowledging that their MAGAgot contemporaries are todays version of the KKK. More of the “quick, look over there” approach to confronting problems. Mike | |||
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Wrong. I firmly believe that religion is not the business of the Government. I encourage any of those who partake in organized religion to worship any way the see fit, as long as they are not imposing those views upon others. Not a vendetta at all but simply a belief that the Government has no place bringing religion into schools. | |||
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Impose is a word everyone hates. It suggests harsh force. The very thought of imposition angers people. But, the whole purpose of teaching children about faith and prayer is to 1) introduce them to God in mans terms but also to give them hope, comfort, empathy, and a reason to live! Should we NOT want to impose those things to some degree? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Hope, comfort and empathy should be taught, but I know plenty of people with a reason to live who are not religious. I see no reason at all for God to be part of public school, we have private religious schools to teach children about God, it is not the place of the Government. | |||
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Morality does flow out of your religious views in the greater sense. Folks like to use the term spirituality instead of religion nowdays, using religion to denote organized religion. While your morality is different than your religion, in general your morality is based off of your worldview, beliefs, “conscience,” and empathy. These are all things that are taught by your upbringing and life experiences. This is essentially your religion, even if your personal expression may not fully fit your claimed religion. Secular humanism is a religion (in most ways) of triumph of the human mind. It doesn’t have an official governing body, and doesn’t want to be defined as a religion, but it’s use and the behavior of its adherents show that it really is- it serves all the purpose of a religion. It may be an atheistic religion, but it is one. Take some university level classes in theology and comparative religion if you disagree. That is where I got this. It’s a philosophical statement. For the secular humanists, the usual hang up is they don’t like being told they have a religion. Therefore, trying to mandate no other religious behavior other than secular humanism in government is making secular humanism a state religion. Small “S” secularism in government is supposed to be the lack of mandate of practice of any one religion… it’s not the lack of religion (as that isn’t possible philosophically) and functionally it’s supposed to be unforced participation. If you don’t want to say your oath or affirmation over a Bible, that’s your choice, but you can’t mandate that another can’t do so. It’s not a violation of the constitution to play the Muslim call to prayer over a public address system, especially if you have a sizable number of Muslims in your group. It’s a violation when you make everyone participate. Serve kosher food to everyone? Not a violation. Having a priest read a prayer while you can do whatever on your own? Not a violation. If I go to the cafeteria and a guy at the table asks us to pray, not a violation until it becomes a mandate that I participate. I have no issue with using a Muslim prayer in school as long as you are not required to participate- and frankly, it’s impossible to force folks to participate fully, as they can say whatever and still not believe it. I believe most religions don’t consider forced participation without belief valid anyhow. | |||
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That is true and Ill give a personnel experience coming from an "Atheist " point of view to back you up. I used to consider myself an atheist, as that was where my thought process aligned. Until I sat down with some atheists and listened too them, and realised it was for many anyway, a religion based on having no religion. Too me that seemed very pointless. It troubled me enough that I went and did some basic research on a topic that to be frank, Id never really bothered with, and learnt of the term agnostic. Which I feel fits a person based in science better. As a scientific mind should at least be open to ideas it can not prove correct or incorrect. In at least some manor. SO now I guess I have a belief system which doesn't discount a god in some form, but that is sceptical of most ideas of what is claimed to be gods, or gods work. And to be honest, I dont know if thats a religion or not. As Im prepared to walk away from any idea I have thats proved wrong. So as in the other thread on Adam and Eve, I usually start such conversations with- " I dont know what I am." | |||
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What a crock The purpose of religion to most is to get into heaven. Plus, all those favorable characteristics you describe can be and are frequently taught and instilled without resort to religion and/or prayer. The bottom line is that you holy rollers think that you have the answers, that all none believers are out to lunch and want to cram your beliefs down others throats. The hubris to not only believe that you are correct but that you are so right, these beliefs should be applied to all men, is | |||
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One requirement of religion is the belief in supernatural events or entities. From Catholicism to Scientology, this is always true. Can you name a religion that doesn't hold such doctrines? Secular humanism, agnosticism, and atheism are not religions because they don't advocate belief in the supernatural. Doc Butler's whole post is contaminated by his erroneous assertion that humanism is a religion. He's wrong. | |||
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Im not so sure, and here is an example. Ethical Veganism. and to back it up, It fits many of the retirement statutes be considered a religion under federal laws on determining such. https://www.jstor.org/stable/1...nimalethics.5.1.0031 | |||
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There's a difference between religious belief and morals, ethics, and scruples, though sometimes the one may be the foundation for the others. Neither is philosophy the same as religion. Besides, in my experience, if you press vegans they'll say they believe in the Earth Mother or Gaia or some other "Fern Gully" supernatural nonsense. | |||
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Government and school are not synonymous. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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How about Taoism or Confucianism? Religion often is viewed as a belief without proof. Frankly, most people view science as a form of mysticism nowdays. Most folks can't even state what scientific theory is, let alone describe something scientifically. Tell me how quantum theory isn't somewhat mystic?
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Taoism is both a philosophy and a religion, while Confucianism is a philosophy only. As a religion, Taoists believe in the Dao, the source of everything and all. Kind of like Gaia, but the Tao encompasses the whole universe. A god, maybe? Sounds supernatural to me, since none of the idea can be tested or reproduced in the lab. Okay, I'll grant you that quantum theory is where science and mysticism cross paths. | |||
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At one point algebra was "mystic".... . | |||
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Yes, and at one point people believed that the Sun orbited around the Earth, we now know better. Best to keep mysticism out of our public schools I do believe. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading The Political Forum Freedom “of” Religion NOT Freedom “from” Religion
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How is a simple prayer formal religion?