Fifty-three pages of 'deniers'!

https://clintel.org/wp-content...D-version-081423.pdf

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Fifty-three pages of 'deniers'!

https://clintel.org/wp-content...D-version-081423.pdf

Canada and Hawaii burning, the hottest years ever recorded are all in the last decade, the hottest month ever recorded was last month, worldwide 100,000,000 people were forced to relocate due to the climate crisis LAST YEAR, glacial melt is directly threatening the existence of the Gulf Stream but yeah, everything's just peachy.

Ever recorded since records began is the correction.

Notable that neither of the Nobel Prize winners featured among signatories are climatologists or meteorologists, and didn't get their Nobels for anything climate related, almost none of the Professors and Doctors noted are meteorologists or climatologists, but several notably work/worked for the oil industry, and the couple who ARE meteorologists or climatologists are notable only for their climate change denialism.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/p...rtails-federal-power

Biden administration weakens water protections after Supreme Court curtails federal power
Politics Aug 29, 2023 12:36 PM EDT

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/0...ection-rollback.html

After Supreme Court Forces Its Hand, E.P.A. Curbs Wetlands Protection
The agency curtailed pollution protections for millions of streams, wetlands and other bodies of water to comply with a Supreme Court decision.

=======================================================================

Climate change denialism, Trumpism, extremism, alt-right conservativism, with their culture wars, small govt, tear it all down, illiberal, cult ideology has already won. We just haven't acknowledged it yet. I think that most people who oppose their shit are in denial about how much damage they have done, especially through Trump, and how much more they want and plan to do. We, the opposition, seem to be delusional about how effective they have been through lies and disinformation, propaganda, strategic placement of loyal ideologues. SCOTUS is a prime example.

It's the long game. I call it the MAGAlosaurus Insidious Creep.

======================================================

Next, they will gut the EPA authority on this one too:

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/14...0serious%20illnesses.

EPA moves to limit toxic 'forever chemicals' in drinking water
March 14, 202311:25 AM ET
By

The Associated Press

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Fifty-three pages of 'deniers'!

https://clintel.org/wp-content...D-version-081423.pdf

Canada and Hawaii burning, the hottest years ever recorded are all in the last decade, the hottest month ever recorded was last month, worldwide 100,000,000 people were forced to relocate due to the climate crisis LAST YEAR, glacial melt is directly threatening the existence of the Gulf Stream but yeah, everything's just peachy.

So you think wildfires are caused by climate? Really?

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/0...-climate-change.html

Warming Set the Stage for Canada’s Record Fires, Study Finds
Climate change has made hot, dry and windy conditions like those that fueled this year’s blazes at least twice as common as they would otherwise be.

==========================================================

There are numerous articles on the topic, many pointing to legit studies by qualified people.

So, it's not just me and Jeffive who think the record-breaking magnitude of wildfires is related to climate change.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Fifty-three pages of 'deniers'!

https://clintel.org/wp-content...D-version-081423.pdf

Canada and Hawaii burning, the hottest years ever recorded are all in the last decade, the hottest month ever recorded was last month, worldwide 100,000,000 people were forced to relocate due to the climate crisis LAST YEAR, glacial melt is directly threatening the existence of the Gulf Stream but yeah, everything's just peachy.

So you think wildfires are caused by climate? Really?

I think wildfires are largely attributable to drought, which is largely attributable to climate change.

quote:

The extent of area burned by wildfires each year appears to have increased since the 1980s. According to National Interagency Fire Center data, of the 10 years with the largest acreage burned, all have occurred since 2004, including the peak year in 2015 (see Figure 2). This period coincides with many of the warmest years on record nationwide (see the U.S. and Global Temperature indicator). The largest increases have occurred during the spring and summer months (see Figure 6).

Link

Maybe it's all just coincidences...

Anyone living in the West has seen the link between drought and increased wildfires. This is the first summer in the last four years I have not been choking on smoke. Certainly forest management plays a role but it is not the only issue.

Ann is in full denial, as usual.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
So you think wildfires are caused by climate? Really?

Why would you word your supposed question that way, which is really not a question at all?

Darn alien space lasers.

https://www.wri.org/insights/g...-trends-forest-fires

The Latest Data Confirms: Forest Fires Are Getting Worse
August 29, 2023 By James MacCarthy, Jessica Richter, Sasha Tyukavina, Mikaela Weisse and Nancy Harris Cover Image by: Donny Sophandi/Shutterstock

The latest data on forest fires confirms what we’ve long feared: Forest fires are becoming more widespread, burning nearly twice as much tree cover today as they did 20 years ago.

Using data from a recent study by researchers at the University of Maryland, we calculated that forest fires now result in 3 million more hectares of tree cover loss per year compared to 2001 — an area roughly the size of Belgium — and accounted for more than one-quarter of all tree cover loss over the past 20 years.

https://www.globalforestwatch....YmlsaXR5Ijp0cnVlfV19

https://www.frontiersin.org/ar...sen.2022.825190/full

Yes - there is climate change, and yes it's getting hotter.

I am uncertain that humans have a real impact on this - i am unconvinced either way

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Yes - there is climate change, and yes it's getting hotter.

I am uncertain that humans have a real impact on this - i am unconvinced either way

Oh, a rare open-minded Hard Head.

Believe the evidence of your own eyes and experience, but not the science. hummm

I'll bet at one time you didn't believe the "getting-hotter" thing.

Say, if it's getting hotter in TX, which you can witness, do you believe what scientists say about the change is more pronounced in the far North?

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
Ann is in full denial, as usual.

. . . whistling past the graveyard.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Yes - there is climate change, and yes it's getting hotter.

I am uncertain that humans have a real impact on this - i am unconvinced either way

It's pretty simple, actually. The main driver of the "greenhouse effect", the amount of solar radiation that is reflected back into space versus absorbed by the atmosphere, is carbon dioxide. The radiation in the infrared wavelengths the planet reflects back passes easily through most atmospheric gasses, but is absorbed by CO2.

At the start of the Industrial Revolution, call it 1750, the atmosphere contained about 260 parts of CO2 per million. As we burned first coal, then oil in increasing amounts the carbon dioxide levels increased in direct proportion to our emissions to where we are now, at about 417 parts per million. Most of the increase, in both emissions and atmospheric concentrations, has been since 1960.

Link

This stuff is not a mystery, and there's really no question that it's happening just as the scientists predicted, there are just a lot of people making money off what's causing it so they throw dust in people's eyes with both hands.

quote:

do you believe what scientists say about the change is more pronounced in the far North?

https://www.scientificamerican...d-northwest-passage/

Melting Sea Ice May Fog Out the Famed Northwest Passage
Melting sea ice is opening new pathways through the Arctic such as the famed Northwest Passage. But it is also reducing visibility and potentially causing delays

By Chelsea Harvey, E&E News on May 1, 2023

===============================================================

There are several interesting links within the above article.

Here's one:

https://www.scientificamerican...-rest-of-the-planet/

The Arctic Is Warming Four Times Faster Than the Rest of the Planet
One study after another is coming to the same conclusion: the Arctic is heating up much faster than earlier research suggested

By Chelsea Harvey, E&E News on August 12, 2022

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Yes - there is climate change, and yes it's getting hotter.

I am uncertain that humans have a real impact on this - i am unconvinced either way

It's pretty simple, actually. The main driver of the "greenhouse effect", the amount of solar radiation that is reflected back into space versus absorbed by the atmosphere, is carbon dioxide. The radiation in the infrared wavelengths the planet reflects back passes easily through most atmospheric gasses, but is absorbed by CO2.

At the start of the Industrial Revolution, call it 1750, the atmosphere contained about 260 parts of CO2 per million. As we burned first coal, then oil in increasing amounts the carbon dioxide levels increased in direct proportion to our emissions to where we are now, at about 417 parts per million. Most of the increase, in both emissions and atmospheric concentrations, has been since 1960.

Link

This stuff is not a mystery, and there's really no question that it's happening just as the scientists predicted, there are just a lot of people making money off what's causing it so they throw dust in people's eyes with both hands.

...and the highest tis been over the last 800,000 years without us buggering it up is about 300ppm. Today its 420ppm. And we have managed that in about 250 years.

I would be happy to trade some cold and cloudy weather for sun and heat. One of the coolest in decades here in the northeast corner. Sucks that we are almost done with "summer" weather.
Figure out how to spread it around better!!

is NASA part of the conspiracy ...

https://climate.nasa.gov/vital...%2C000%20years%20ago.

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Yes - there is climate change, and yes it's getting hotter.

I am uncertain that humans have a real impact on this - i am unconvinced either way

It's pretty simple, actually. The main driver of the "greenhouse effect", the amount of solar radiation that is reflected back into space versus absorbed by the atmosphere, is carbon dioxide. The radiation in the infrared wavelengths the planet reflects back passes easily through most atmospheric gasses, but is absorbed by CO2.

At the start of the Industrial Revolution, call it 1750, the atmosphere contained about 260 parts of CO2 per million. As we burned first coal, then oil in increasing amounts the carbon dioxide levels increased in direct proportion to our emissions to where we are now, at about 417 parts per million. Most of the increase, in both emissions and atmospheric concentrations, has been since 1960.

Link

This stuff is not a mystery, and there's really no question that it's happening just as the scientists predicted, there are just a lot of people making money off what's causing it so they throw dust in people's eyes with both hands.

...and the highest tis been over the last 800,000 years without us buggering it up is about 300ppm. Today its 420ppm. And we have managed that in about 250 years.

Don't sell us short, it was only slightly over 300 in 1960, we managed the rest since then.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
Anyone living in the West has seen the link between drought and increased wildfires. This is the first summer in the last four years I have not been choking on smoke. Certainly forest management plays a role but it is not the only issue.

Ann is in full denial, as usual.

I wonder if this year’s record snowpack had anything to do with it…

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
Anyone living in the West has seen the link between drought and increased wildfires. This is the first summer in the last four years I have not been choking on smoke. Certainly forest management plays a role but it is not the only issue.

Ann is in full denial, as usual.

I wonder if this year’s record snowpack had anything to do with it…

This year we had record precipitation. That does not change the fact that we have been experiencing a 20 plus year drought in the west. I would love to see a change in the trend of hotter, drier weather here but it will take far more than one wet year to turn the tide. Further East on the plains they are having another drought year.

Geez I wonder what Gaia’s response to drought conditions was before we happened along and decided to live in places like the western US?

11th century 100 years drought in SW US including CA ( no rain )
1910 Fire in Idaho
Frisco fire 1906
…

Ever hear of the Anasazi? What they did was either die or move to a less arid region.

What exactly is your point? It sure as hell has been hotter and drier in the west the last 20 years or so, this year was an exception.

There is everything right about outdoor sportsman being environmentalists. Clean water for trout and salmon, clean soil for quail nests and deer browse. Clean air for our kids good health.

Why not plant a couple nice shade trees around the house, leave some feed for pheasants, help clean up a local creek. Build a duck pond, even if it's a little one.

If we all tried to be a little more Aldo Leopold the world would benefit.

https://legalinsurrection.com/...about-climate-grief/

Right or left
Trump or Biden
Climate Change Denier or Alarmist

Logic is sometimes rare.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
There is everything right about outdoor sportsman being environmentalists. Clean water for trout and salmon, clean soil for quail nests and deer browse. Clean air for our kids good health.

Why not plant a couple nice shade trees around the house, leave some feed for pheasants, help clean up a local creek. Build a duck pond, even if it's a little one.

If we all tried to be a little more Aldo Leopold the world would benefit.

I been doing all of that since I was 16 years old and now on 1000s of acres.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Yes - there is climate change, and yes it's getting hotter.

I am uncertain that humans have a real impact on this - i am unconvinced either way

Ditto.

And, I don't really give a shit.

But, I'm from Texas. We had 109 and 110 last weekend with heat indexes to 113-114. It's now a cool 96 and I am grateful because dove season starts tomorrow.

quote:

And, I don't really give a shit.

BS.

Everyone gives a shit.

Take it from that premise.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
There is everything right about outdoor sportsman being environmentalists. Clean water for trout and salmon, clean soil for quail nests and deer browse. Clean air for our kids good health.

Why not plant a couple nice shade trees around the house, leave some feed for pheasants, help clean up a local creek. Build a duck pond, even if it's a little one.

If we all tried to be a little more Aldo Leopold the world would benefit.

I been doing all of that since I was 16 years old and now on 1000s of acres.

The most effective effort and you should be commended.

One by one we make our little plot of earth a little better, a little more healthy than we got it.

The thing is, in my view, that we can do what we can, individually, and the greater the land holding the more impact.

But there are lots of stuff that we can't do individually. We just don't have the capacity or authority.

That's where the Govt. comes in, such as the EPA. That's why Govt. was invented.

People, like Lane, who claim whatever, also support gutting the EPA.

Go figure.

The thing is, while I don't believe there is anything we can do about the climate, there is no reason to not do everything the best we can to protect the environment. I don't think carbon taxes and electric cars are any kind of answer. Building infrastructure which isn't predicated on the availability of cheap energy might help. If we want to reduce greenhouse gases, it has to be across the board and it has to make sense.
I am 74 years old. I have seen the world population more than triple. I have seen the US population more than double. I have seen decisions made which made the use of fossil fuels mandatory. I've watched the glaciers receding for my entire life. I've seen at least a dozen beautiful valleys flooded and lost forever.
Remember the oil crisis in 1972? That was apparently bullshit since we continued to build highways and other infrastructure which required the use of even more. You know what the really funny part is? Neither side of the aisle really does anything at all. Democrats will create some more bureaucracy but they keep right on burning that oil, damming those rivers, and chasing manufacturing to countries where nobody cares at all.
I have no doubt that it is warmer worldwide today than it was when I was in high school. I have seen local weather patterns change in various locales due to man made lakes, Man made mountains, or mountain removal (no kidding!)
I joke about all the carbon tax I pay because of all the diesel I burn, but the truth is, I'm as environmentally conscious as I can be and my footprint is pretty damn small.
Is there climate change? Of course there is. Can Greta Thunberg and the Democrats fix it? Hell no; nor can anyone else. It took us seventy years to screw things up to the extent they are today. We can count on at least that long to fix it. We won't see it happen. Regards, Bill

quote:

We won't see it happen.

IOW, it's gonna get worse, then maybe better.

The likelihood of getting better in 100 years is a fantasy.

What's "getting better" look like after total collapse?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weat...7c918a4a84b41f&ei=39

This Hurricane Season Is Unprecedented
Story by Marina Koren • The Atlantic
5h

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
This Hurricane Season Is Unprecedented

by what measure? Hurricane Katrina anniversary was just the other day - that's K -- we just hand Jose, that's J, form in the atlantic

Go back hundreds of years, long before carbon fuels were even thought of, and the climate changes. It gets hotter, it gets colder.

I'm not saying man has had NO influence, I'm just saying that this has happened for thousands, probably millions of years, and we are just a flyspeck in the history of this planet. It will continue after we are gone as a species.

I'm no expert. I'm just sayin' that I'll choose to trust in scientists over Rightists.

After all, who has the greatest stake in a lie?

Scientists have a stake in truth/reality, backed with evidence and physics, chemistry, math, nature, peer respect, etc. Rightists have a stake in belief and ideology and worldview, tied to self ID.

Hummm

August was the hottest month in Houston in history (going back to 1889). While that is anecdotal, the broader evidence of climate change is pervasive. While there may be multiple contributing factors, it would be naive bordering on ignorant to deny that humans do not play a substantial role. As between groups like NASA and folks like bluefish, with apologies to the latter, I’ll listen to the former.