quote:

That lie was old by the end of 2007, when it started circulating.

Al Gore has always said that the most important things people can do is reduce their own generation of CO2 where possible, which he does, offset their necessary emissions elsewhere in the carbon economy by supporting carbon capture projects, which he does to the point that he has a negative footprint, and educate and advocate for policies to stop and, eventually, reverse the damage, which he does.

He practices exactly what he preaches, but since all you care about is Fox News sound bites you couldn't know that.

So, he can contribute as much co2 production as he likes (and it is plenty; compared to someone like me) but his "support" of carbon capture projects makes it all OK? What a load of crap.
A similar concept is carbon tax. If I pee in your water, it is undrinkable. If I pee in your water and pay a tax to offset that, drink up!
What are Al Gore's "necessary emissions"? Heating and air conditioning for his large house (s)? Jet fuel burning for extensive travel? He is doing squat for the environment, just like most people.
Probably the worst hypocrite is the guy who preaches environmental protection, but fathers a half dozen kids or more. Regards, Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Michio Kaku on the state of the weather

Cloud seeding with silver dioxide is so old C.W. McCall sang about it, everything else is speculative maybes.

On the flip side of "maybe" there's always a "maybe not".

AND EVEN IF technology matures to allow the development of clouds or triggering of rain, eventually, it would not affect the amount of carbon we dump into the atmosphere.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Grizzly Adams1:
At one time in our past history, we had an ice age that covered virtually the entire planet, Of course that was before records were kept.

Grizz

And before billions depended on industrial agriculture. That is civilization's weakness.

I'll bite ..
but is it, though? Sure farm equipment usually runs on fuel, but I think coal fired power plants, cars, jets, and heavy fuel shipping makes a bigger problem

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...19d4a40a37a591&ei=18

Expert sounds the alarm after U.S. Supreme Court sides with couple wanting to build house at protected site
Story by Laurelle Stelle •
2h

Scalia started the slippery slope.

Wow, what a weird way to reword that "SCOTUS decides EPA has overreached, and standing water on a site does not make it a wetlands"

I was following this case in about 2006 -- the DAILY fines that the EPA "decided" on would crush a normal human

quote:

the DAILY fines that the EPA "decided" on would crush a normal human

even an exceptionally wealthy one

(we contributed some funds to the defense )

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Grizzly Adams1:
At one time in our past history, we had an ice age that covered virtually the entire planet, Of course that was before records were kept.

Grizz

And before billions depended on industrial agriculture. That is civilization's weakness.

I'll bite ..
but is it, though? Sure farm equipment usually runs on fuel, but I think coal fired power plants, cars, jets, and heavy fuel shipping makes a bigger problem

It doesn't matter how you power it or where you source all the chemicals it now uses, modern agriculture absolutely depends on predictable, stable growing seasons, which will soon be memories.

In any closed system, like our atmosphere, if you add energy (heat) you get bigger cyclic swings, like a pendulum. The overall trend is decidedly toward warming but you are guaranteed to get stuff like screwed-up jet stream patterns letting polar air down to Oklahoma and two-week mini-Springs in February. A late, hard frost just after crops have emerged may let you replant, but it makes getting the crop harvested before the first hard frost in Fall iffy, and makes one of these heat domes that sticks around for weeks a problem because while plants do love some extra CO2 they can only use it within limited temperature ranges, they just don't grow when it's too hot, unless it's also dry, then they die.

When Louisiana has a drought problem we should all pay attention.

A lot of crops depend on external pollination, but those fake mini-Springs can cause them to emerge early, when there's nothing for them, then the return of the cold kills them. Which leaves nothing for when the crops need pollinating.

Yeah, those bees and bugs are a pain in the ass but you'll have little fruit without them.

A closed system with added energy will trend warmer by a few degrees but the extremes will move out more enthusiastically; droughts deeper and longer, storms stronger from all the extra heat, floods in places that never flood, and all the places that do.

Then there's little minor stuff like the Gulf Stream shutting down because too much cold, fresh water is coming off of
Greenland, won't have that much effect over here but Western Europe may wish furs were back in style.

Want to get rich beyond your wildest dreams? Invent and patent a farming system that is proof from drought and flood and storms and temperature-controlled that has its own supply of pollinators.

Really?

He needs multiple homes of several thousand square feet?

He needs private aircraft travel?

Etc.

Gore is a hypocrite. He was heavily involved in the carbon exchange business and stands to make a huge profit if we go down his desired path… so he’s not some sort of altruist, especially since he’s been overstating the effects and the time frames since 1976… not being right.

The whole ice caps melting and oceans rise doom and gloom scenario actually adversely effects Asia and Africa much more significantly than the west, so instead of going in for coal, if they believe the evidence, they would be avoiding even short term use…

I’m not denying that CO2 levels are going up. I do question the significance of the rise and its predicted outcomes.

I have no problem with trying to reduce CO2 emissions in a doable manner. I don’t hate solar- it’s eminently reasonable for those off grid. I think NG with its increased efficiency is a good bridge choice short term, but the plan should be nuclear with the hope of developing fusion down the road.

I agree e-vehicles are a great idea for commuting and short range transport.

I do think that we should get rid of OTR long distance trucking and go to electric powered freight trains.

I also think that ag is one of the areas that we are going to need to continue petroleum power with.

Ditto for rural driving.

I just can’t see how our current and foreseeable tech is going to solve the issues that battery operation has.

I’m also scientifically trained. I don’t see “proof” of a lot of the things that the climate alarmists claim. Doesn’t mean I disagree with it wholly or that it’s illogical… just not proven. But we do a lot of things with substantially less than proof level of confidence.

The fundamental disconnect I have with the whole climate debate is that the cause that is given is not really related to the SJW methodology for fixing the problem. Why pay a penalty and give it to others when it’s just as reasonable to reduce a cost and drive folks via direct self interest?


Answer… it’s not about the problem, it’s about control.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Grizzly Adams1:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
Notable that neither of the Nobel Prize winners featured among signatories are climatologists or meteorologists, and didn't get their Nobels for anything climate related, almost none of the Professors and Doctors noted are meteorologists or climatologists, but several notably work/worked for the oil industry, and the couple who ARE meteorologists or climatologists are notable only for their climate change denialism.

So, what are Al Gore's, one of the worst doom criers out there , credentials ?

Grizz

Being right since 1976.

Gore is the perfect example of a climate hypocrite. He preaches living the green life, yet his carbon footprint is immense.

I just can’t wrap my head around the idea that he actually believes what he preaches, or that anyone else would.

That lie was old by the end of 2007, when it started circulating.

Al Gore has always said that the most important things people can do is reduce their own generation of CO2 where possible, which he does, offset their necessary emissions elsewhere in the carbon economy by supporting carbon capture projects, which he does to the point that he has a negative footprint, and educate and advocate for policies to stop and, eventually, reverse the damage, which he does.

He practices exactly what he preaches, but since all you care about is Fox News sound bites you couldn't know that.

Damn, Hurricane Lee went from a Cat 2 to a Cat 4 in 6 hours.

Link

All that 100 plus degree Atlantic water off FL can’t be helping the Hurricane problem.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
All that 100 plus degree Atlantic water off FL can’t be helping the Hurricane problem.

We'll soon have to invent a Cat 6, maybe tomorrow.

I hope it stays offshore.

Now saying it may hit sustained winds over 200 mph tomorrow.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
All that 100 plus degree Atlantic water off FL can’t be helping the Hurricane problem.

Are you that intellectually dishonest? That reading you keep referring to was taken in shallow back bay. Gimme a break.

It is well known hurricanes feed off warm costal water. You are broken.

You can’t argue the fact of record Atlantic temp recordings or hurricanes feeding off warm costal water.

I will say it again. I cannot help but think these 100 degree waters are having a magnifying effect on hurricanes as the move costal.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
All that 100 plus degree Atlantic water off FL can’t be helping the Hurricane problem.

Are you that intellectually dishonest? That reading you keep referring to was taken in shallow back bay. Gimme a break.

A good thing there's nothing to indicate a general warming or anything...



Certainly can't have anything to do with this:

quote:

However, sea-surface temperatures across the portion of the Atlantic Ocean that Lee is set to track through are still a staggering 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) above normal after rising to “far above record levels” this summer, according to David Zierden, Florida’s state climatologist.

Link

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

That lie was old by the end of 2007, when it started circulating.

Al Gore has always said that the most important things people can do is reduce their own generation of CO2 where possible, which he does, offset their necessary emissions elsewhere in the carbon economy by supporting carbon capture projects, which he does to the point that he has a negative footprint, and educate and advocate for policies to stop and, eventually, reverse the damage, which he does.

He practices exactly what he preaches, but since all you care about is Fox News sound bites you couldn't know that.

Kinda funny watching you try to defend a guy who owns at least 4 huge homes that consume massive amounts of energy. Sure, relatively recently he promised that he was no longer flying in private jets, but why would he need to, seeing that he has retired after making hundreds of millions off of his BS?

I don’t watch Fox “news”, but nice try… What do you gain from the silly personal attacks?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/mone...111e3eb871a318&ei=75

‘A rapidly closing window:’ Major UN report offers sobering assessment of world’s climate efforts
Story by Sam Meredith • 19h

======================================================================

https://www.msn.com/en-us/mone...111e3eb871a318&ei=89

Texas power prices soar 20,000% as brutal heat wave sets off emergency
Story by jma@insider.com (Jason Ma) •
14h

Can any of you geniuses tell the rest of us the Earth's average temperature? Or how about ground conditions leading up the last and most recent mini ice age? Or possibly how west Texas in the 1930s had hotter summers in many places for longer than what they had this year? And Heym we get you're pissed for being made to realize as an affirmative action supporter you just got the big personal shock that YOU are the racist around here but stop with your PT Barnum act about middle of the day shallow bay water in Florida being a barometer of impending doom. It's a little sad.

What's the probability of all those climate scientists around the world, the UN and such, being right?

Compared to - what's the probability of you and other deniers being wrong?

In my estimation the probability of each is about the same, but incompatably opposed.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
Can any of you geniuses tell the rest of us the Earth's average temperature? Or how about ground conditions leading up the last and most recent mini ice age? Or possibly how west Texas in the 1930s had hotter summers in many places for longer than what they had this year? And Heym we get you're pissed for being made to realize as an affirmative action supporter you just got the big personal shock that YOU are the racist around here but stop with your PT Barnum act about middle of the day shallow bay water in Florida being a barometer of impending doom. It's a little sad.

quote:

Or possibly how west Texas in the 1930s had hotter summers in many places for longer than what they had this year?

That, a temporary, localized set of conditions, is weather. If not for human activity it would have been merely another drought on the Southern Great Plains, which existed as plains primarily because they were subject to periodic drought (not enough regular precipitation to support trees or extensive brush, like grasslands across the planet). In the 20s Federal policy was to encourage settlement out west, and a rainy decade made it seem plausible. Wheat prices were up so the settlers broke and planted every acre they could, wiping out the deep-rooted prairie grass that had held the soil in place through the droughts since shortly after the Ice Age ended.

Drought returned in 1930; the crop failed and withered. By 1931 millions of acres had absolutely no cover, just bare dirt waiting for a stiff breeze; thus started the Dust Bowl that ran until the rains came late in the decade.

Weather, made worse by human ignorance.

Why Sahara dried out in last 7000 years?
GW or just natural cycle gone rogue?
Why do we have deserts

quote:

Originally posted by Bivoj:
Why Sahara dried out in last 7000 years?
GW or just natural cycle gone rogue?
Why do we have deserts

It was evident some time ago that you had large discrepancies in your education but I must have missed the memo appointing me to rectify them, and in the absence of such memo from proper authority I feel little urge to teach you what any attentive high school sophomore would master by year end.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
What's the probability of all those climate scientists around the world, the UN and such, being right?

Compared to - what's the probability of you and other deniers being wrong?

In my estimation the probability of each is about the same, but incompatably opposed.

nice nice -- now, apply exactly that same logic to biology -- i DARE ya

The consensus of Western Medicine is to treat gender dysphoria with gender affirming care. So, it would work to do apply.

England, tax payers even pay for it.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
What's the probability of all those climate scientists around the world, the UN and such, being right?

Compared to - what's the probability of you and other deniers being wrong?

In my estimation the probability of each is about the same, but incompatably opposed.

nice nice -- now, apply exactly that same logic to biology -- i DARE ya

I might "apply that same logic to biology" if I knew what you're talking about.

Mass species extinctions?

It would take climate science deniers forever - too late - to see it for themselves, but scientists could see it happening in real time, and have studied it and reported on it.

Deniers deny that too. Species have come and gone before, they say.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Bivoj:
Why Sahara dried out in last 7000 years?
GW or just natural cycle gone rogue?
Why do we have deserts

It was evident some time ago that you had large discrepancies in your education but I must have missed the memo appointing me to rectify them, and in the absence of such memo from proper authority I feel little urge to teach you what any attentive high school sophomore would master by year end.

Can’t wait O Great One

https://www.weather.gov/source...rricane_anatomy.html

It's long ago established that warmer water turbocharges hurricanes. That's how Lee went from a tropical storm to a monster in 24 hours.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
https://www.weather.gov/source...rricane_anatomy.html

It's long ago established that warmer water turbocharges hurricanes. That's how Lee went from a tropical storm to a monster in 24 hours.

No 100deg water anywhere in the Atlantic or Gulf - it's a lie.

https://coastalwatertemperatur...noaa.hub.arcgis.com/

Also, waters in the Keys are right at their historical average.
Some other areas are 1-3deg warmer than average this week but nowhere near 100deg.

https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/acce.../all_table.html#satl

I looked at both of your posted links.

What I saw was AVERAGE temperature.

I don't think that supports or proves your point.

https://phys.org/news/2023-07-...tion%2C%20told%20AFP.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/n...for-warmest-seawater

Study: The ocean’s color is changing as a consequence of climate change
The color changes reflect significant shifts in essential marine ecosystems.
Jennifer Chu | MIT News Office
Publication Date:July 12, 2023

https://news.mit.edu/2023/stud...-climate-change-0712

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
I looked at both of your posted links.

What I saw was AVERAGE temperature.

I don't think that supports or proves your point.

No, the first link is showing actual temps, not averages.

"Displayed are water temperatures from buoys and tide gauge stations near U.S. coastal waters."

Well, I don't know how to reconcile the different sources.

Then there's the methane

Climate Science is a made-up term. The accurate term is Climatology, or the study of climate. The same as Medicine. A practice, not a science. If Climate Science were a science, there would be only one hurricane track rather than 50 guesses. Outcomes are projected by computer models rather than direct observation. Climatology uses some scientific methods, but it is not a science. One day, perhaps, there will be enough data available for it to be a science.

"Climate Science" and the global warming hoax have been used as payback to Al Gore, John Kerry, the UN, and the industrial complex as a substitute for war. Create a fictitious "boogeyman" to bilk the world out of cash.

Mathematics, Physics, Astronomy, Engineering, and Chemistry are sciences because theories can be proved and results repeated time and time again.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
Climate Science is a made-up term. The accurate term is Climatology, or the study of climate. The same as Medicine. A practice, not a science. If Climate Science were a science, there would be only one hurricane track rather than 50 guesses. Outcomes are projected by computer models rather than direct observation. Climatology uses some scientific methods, but it is not a science.

"Climate Science" and the global warming hoax have been used as payback to Al Gore, John Kerry, the UN, and the industrial complex as a substitute for war. Create a fictitious "boogeyman" to bilk the world out of cash.

Mathematics, Physics, Astronomy, Engineering, Chemistry are sciences because theories can be proved and results repeated time and time again.

Thank you Bob
Some of these pseudo AR scientists are sure “ real deal” on here
Mind boggles as Saeed would say

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
Then there's the methane

this is part of the vicious cycle - the warmer it gets, the more then permafrost melts, the more methane released, the warmer it gets ...

and don't get me started on cows and vegans

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
Then there's the methane

this is part of the vicious cycle - the warmer it gets, the more then permafrost melts, the more methane released, the warmer it gets ...

and don't get me started on cows and vegans

I'm not in favor of doing away with cows, just the ones on public grass.

Replace them with bison, pronghorns and elk.

Bison -- or beefalo -- I like them both better than beef

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Bison -- or beefalo -- I like them both better than beef

They rip us off just like oil companies do. I've never bought a steak that showed a "Public Grass" Discount sticker or a gallon of gas that was cheaper because it was from under public land. Never saw a 2x6 marked down as "National Forest Lumber" either, for that matter.

Kick 'em all off, give everybody 3 months to move their stock then have a three month "slow elk" season with $10 licenses to clean up what gets left behind and we won't need to shoot any Yellowstone bison, we'll have plenty of graze for them.

Yes, but the question is though did humans cause it or is it just nature? Can you provide real evidence and not projections?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
Then there's the methane

this is part of the vicious cycle - the warmer it gets, the more then permafrost melts, the more methane released, the warmer it gets ...

and don't get me started on cows and vegans

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
Yes, but the question is though did humans cause it or is it just nature? Can you provide real evidence and not projections?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
Then there's the methane

this is part of the vicious cycle - the warmer it gets, the more then permafrost melts, the more methane released, the warmer it gets ...

and don't get me started on cows and vegans

Do you figure it's a coincidence that CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere track precisely with human emissions of CO2 since the start of the Industrial Revolution?

Really?

Well, perhaps you can educate me how in the hell anyone knows what the CO2 concentrations were in the past? Don't give me that arctic ice core shit.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
Yes, but the question is though did humans cause it or is it just nature? Can you provide real evidence and not projections?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
Then there's the methane

this is part of the vicious cycle - the warmer it gets, the more then permafrost melts, the more methane released, the warmer it gets ...

and don't get me started on cows and vegans

Do you figure it's a coincidence that CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere track precisely with human emissions of CO2 since the start of the Industrial Revolution?

Really?