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The US isn’t the only place that counts. What is more likely to hurt the Palestinians is their embracing tactics and behaviors that no one else wants to put up with. Saeed, you may think it’s “never give up” and a historical injustice. I’m sure the Palestinians want you to think that way… but using murder of civilians via guerrilla forces, rape, hostage taking and use, and neglecting your duty to your current land to make some quixotic quest to “bring attention” via warfare- face it, the rockets and AK47’s Hamas has are capable of not stopping the Israeli military from invading at whim… why buy that crap when you don’t have drinking water, food, medicine, and education? Why spend what you have on Madrases when spending on technical education would make your people more productive and more so, more effective at warfare if Israel was to invade? If the Palestinian goal really is to recover what they “lost” they certainly aren’t doing anything that will accomplish that. You have been in both the US and UK. You know that what one politician promises, the next will not support, so Balfour’s declaration in 1917 had nothing to do with 1948. The Israeli formation had a lot to do with the Holocaust, sure. More making the Jewish people realize that they had to help themselves rather than rely on euroweenies like Balfour. If the Palestinians took that lesson and ran with it, maybe they would be doing better, instead of allowing themselves to be the deniable agent of Iran. | |||
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One of Us |
Anyone that thinks that the current Israeli efforts are going to eliminate attacks by Palestinians is hopelessly ignorant of the history of Israel and Palestine since 1948. Israel made countless efforts to destroy the PLO through attacks (including the invasion of Lebanon) and assassinations of PLO leadership. Those efforts were resounding failures and just gave rise to Hezbollah. Now Israel seeks to destroy Hezbollah. That effort will only give rise to a more virulent Palestinian population fueled by memories of children and parents killed, homes destroyed, starvation, etc. Mike | |||
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And what other solution there is after that particular brutal attack and hostage situation? Jines, you seem to have no clue about real world out there. I get the fact we live sheltered lives here at home but you gotta be able to grasp realities in other parts of this planet so I reckon you’re simply clueless | |||
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Mike - If you're sitting in that office, how do you respond to the 10/7 attacks? Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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Or like in Ireland that they start waking up that all violence begets is more violence. I don’t see the Palestinians getting closer to winning by their violence. Where the rubber meets the road here is as far as capabilities go, Israel could eradicate the Palestinians. They could successfully commit genocide. The Palestinians cannot. The Israeli government has not gone to elimination of the Palestinians. They are not calling for that. The Palestinians are not influencing others to buy into eradication of israel very well. They certainly cannot do it or they would have by now. The Palestinians if they want to win need to change something they are doing.
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. . . listen to Lex Fridman’s podcast with Elon Musk for some thoughts. Mike | |||
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Since he supported Trump, I no longer have any interest in what Musk has to say. | |||
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I listen to everyone. If only to know what the sell is. | |||
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Exactly. It’s how we can learn from people we generally disagree with Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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Your prerogative but I thought Musk had some really interesting thoughts on how Israel might consider responding. On the other hand, Israel has opted for the approach that will just create a whole new generation of Palestines dedicated to the destruction of Israel. Mike | |||
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Biden announces cease-fire plan between Israel and Hezbollah ending 14 months of fighting https://www.foxnews.com/world/...llah-cease-fire-plan Except for this. I don't see how any effort will avoid giving rise to a more virulent Palestinian population. Humanitarian efforts, peace, negotiations, treaties, etc are always seen as weakness and an opening for victory to the terrorists. | |||
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tell me you never played team sports without telling me you never played team sports - you are just so precious - 100 and some days ago, YOU were a biden supporter -- then "switched" to supporting no-primary-votes quemala, and NOW you want to "temper" your inputs to only non-new administration people... oh, sweetie, you might destroy your compute devices, as the internet isn't for you -- you poor little elitist, you didn't get 6 votes for your "achievements" ... opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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My friend, you don't have time to listen to everyone--not in the internet age. Neither do I. There are so many voices out there, crying for attention. Like me, you have to discriminate in deciding whom you are willing to listen to. Alex Jones? Would you give him your time? I know what I need to know about Musk to tune him out. Except on his space program. I have a keen interest in space exploration, but I may not follow Starship (formerly known as the Big Fucking Rocket) with the same enthusiasm. | |||
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Musk makes the point that for every Hamas member that you kill, how many new Hamas members do you create? And if you are creating more than you are killing, you are not succeeding. That is exactly what is happening now in the conflict in Gaza today. Israel is creating a whole new army of Palestinians that will be even more firmly dedicated to and committed to the death of Israelis and the destruction of Israel. You only need to really listen from 4:30 to 9:30. Mike | |||
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Heym mentioned to me a while back that repeating myself over and over and over didn't help make my point any stronger and I've tried to take that to heart. So anyway, I'll dump it after this, but,..... 1st, I believe it a mistake to apply any Western values and morals to other cultures conflicts. After decades of a mix of CNN, Fox News, HBO and first person conversations and a bit of reading, I am not under the impression that others place the same value on life, liberty, the Pursuit of Happiness, family, etc as we do. I also believe our enemies see our Western values as a weakness to be used against us. 2nd, I don't believe Israeli or Western aggression or brutality breeds more terrorists. I believe The West and Israel breed more Islamic Terrorists by their very existence. We the West are Infidels, no more or less Our presence in THE M.E. is offensive, a sacrilege. Peace with Israel will never be accepted or even satisfactory, "River to the Sea" is the goal and a ceasefire with Israel is no more or less an opportunity to restock the kindergarten classrooms with rocket propelled grenade caches. Finally, I have no problem with revisited our defense/ offense partnership with Israel, but now is not the time. Israel was attacked and is responding. Now is the time to continue to support Israel, let them do what they think is best, (we've redundantly proven The West has no clue what that is,) and after the dust settles I'd consider it wise and appropriate to have a calm sit down over some green tea and say, "hey Man, should we try something different?". I understand Jines logic, I appreciate Musks also, but Jines is from the West like the rest of us, Musk from RSA which has a recent history of getting it wrong and Israel is on the ground right there on the "X" aren't they? Who knows best? | |||
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History suggests you are wrong. Israel’s efforts to destroy the PLO begot Hezbollah. Israel’s efforts to destroy Hezbollah begot Hamas. Each time the new threat emerged stronger, better organized and better supported throughout the Middle East. Insanity is repeating the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. To suggest that destroying Gaza, killing thousands of Palestinians, invading other Muslim countries is going to in some way leave Israel stronger and less subject to attack is naive and at odds with history. Mike | |||
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I would not insist I was right for obvious reasons. | |||
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https://theonion.com/onion-exp...conflict-1819595808/ Onion Explains: The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict https://theonion.com/americans...-hamas-w-1850996021/ Americans Explain How They Would End The Israel-Hamas War ************* Degenerate 1:1 1 Then Trump said, "Let Us re-make a Nation in MY Image, after My likeness, to rule over everything in the Nation, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it". "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis "Stupid is as stupid does". Forest Gump "Fascist is as fascist does". Magine Enigam D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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| Administrator |
America is just as guilty in perpetuating this ethnic cleansing! The bloody Brits gave Palestine to the Zionists. America has been financing them becuas thy have no gus to face the fact that they run by the military's industry! | |||
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So what's your country's excuse for not helping the Palestinians? Stand on the sidelines and bitch and cry that they are already in their homeland? That's the extent of UAE's assistance? I don't know, maybe your country is already helping them as much as you can. If not, you have no moral standing to condemn America. | |||
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Over 44,000 Palestinians are estimated to have died in Gaza since October. America was in Vietnam for eight years and lost 58,000 lives. When you consider the parents, children, siblings, nieces and nephews of the 44,000 killed in Gaza, you have created an army of generational warriors dedicated to Israel’s destruction and the death of Israelis. Of course that is of little interest to the current leaders in Israel, they will be dead and gone when the implications of their actions start to be realized. Mike | |||
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Scott, While we may disagree on the nuances of a proper president or what differentiates a riot from an insurrection…I could not have articulated those 3 principles any better and I believe you are spot on correct with all three. A strong +1 there. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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When someone pours diesel on your child, sets them alight and then calls their parents to rejoice in the day over the experience…lets see what your response would be. I know what mine would be. You are doing just as Scott has accused…applying Western logic to a non-Western culture. It doesn’t apply. Taking the foot off the gas pedal will only allow the replenishment of the kindergartens with AKs. This kind of evil is dissimilar to anything we fought before 9-11 in modern times. It is more kin to fighting the Comanche and only the same tactics will succeed. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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As far as history goes…this photo sums it up.  With the right powers in charge…this is what the ME can be like. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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https://x.com/drelidavid/statu...337773459771543?s=46 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| Administrator |
Having obtained the Shah's concurrence, the CIA executed the coup. Firmans (royal decrees) dismissing Mosaddegh and appointing General Fazlollah Zahedi (a loyalist who had helped Reza Shah reunify Iran decades earlier) were drawn up by the coup plotters and signed by the Shah. Your dirty hands as usual! | |||
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Hatred for a whole group of people is not a Christian value. Time to brush up on the New Testament Lane. Jesus taught forgiveness. | |||
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While true, the UAE is currently slowly starving millions of Sudanese for political gain. Are you sure that the hands of your family are clean? I don't think that they are. I wonder what Khashoggi would think? | |||
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 . . . and the post just above this one is about the flaws of applying Western logic to non-Western countries. You float around in positions so fast, you are bumping into yourself within the space of an hour and a half. Mike | |||
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Interesting that some believe the atrocities only occur on one side. Again, people need to understand the history a bit better between the Palestinians and Israelis before trying to express an opinion. You know that whole, engage the mind before putting the mouth in gear idea. IDF takes two Palestinians into custody. The two are turned over to Shin Bet for questioning. Shin Bet decides to just finish them off and avoid the hassle. So they crush their heads with a large rock and proceed to beat them to death with rocks and iron bars. Then cook up the story that they were murdered by unidentified renegade civilians. And, of course, there is the decade long practice of political assassination by Mossad. Anyone thinking that Israel has clean hands when it comes to atrocities is ill-informed . . . or worse. Mike | |||
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| One of Us |
So, what is "Western Logic"? It seems to me that your version of it is annihilation of the other side. It's the same with all your beliefs, including democrats. How is that any different from the "logic" of HAMAS "From the river to the sea"? There's irony and hypocrisy therein somewhere.  Also, I don't see any "logic", western or otherwise. There is a lot going on there with your "logic", but it boils down to righteous genocide -- justified, and calling it logic. https://youtu.be/zvjcJsy51oc?si=8ZWcfWguHBFkrloe Stupidity: A powerful force in human history https://youtu.be/BLP6K8xm0Kc?si=pUCGWGPuQ3Jgm5u3 Yuval Noah Harari: “We Are on the Verge of Destroying Ourselves” | Amanpour and Company ************* Degenerate 1:1 1 Then Trump said, "Let Us re-make a Nation in MY Image, after My likeness, to rule over everything in the Nation, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it". "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis "Stupid is as stupid does". Forest Gump "Fascist is as fascist does". Magine Enigam D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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I will just keep on killing the child burners.  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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No…rifle bullets first…then rifle bullets at the ready…then the above picture occurs. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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The kid, top row left -- he's transgender. What would your rifle bullets say about that Lane ************* Degenerate 1:1 1 Then Trump said, "Let Us re-make a Nation in MY Image, after My likeness, to rule over everything in the Nation, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it". "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis "Stupid is as stupid does". Forest Gump "Fascist is as fascist does". Magine Enigam D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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. . . and the children of the people who had nothing to do with the child burners.  Mike | |||
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https://youtu.be/1Ez5_bNvO_s?si=0nc_UNHUd27y3e27 I Love The Smell Of Napalm In The Morning ::: Apocalypse Now ************* Degenerate 1:1 1 Then Trump said, "Let Us re-make a Nation in MY Image, after My likeness, to rule over everything in the Nation, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it". "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis "Stupid is as stupid does". Forest Gump "Fascist is as fascist does". Magine Enigam D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I see zero evidence that there are any of those. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..._the_burden_of_proof Inverted "logic" is broader in scope than logic would suggest.  "Negative proof is a type of proof that relies on the absence of evidence to support a claim or argument. It is the opposite of positive proof." So, Lane it's good to see that you value evidence, or the lack thereof. ************* Degenerate 1:1 1 Then Trump said, "Let Us re-make a Nation in MY Image, after My likeness, to rule over everything in the Nation, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it". "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis "Stupid is as stupid does". Forest Gump "Fascist is as fascist does". Magine Enigam D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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Who said hate? I didn't, nor did I see Doc say hate. My interest, I believe our interest in in a permanent end to the violence and hostilities. Steve, it bugs the stuffing out of me to not be able to tour the M.E. with a big dopey grin on my face. There's so much to see and experience there that I don't feel I can because of the hostilities. I'd be happy to advocate for any plan that would really cease hostilities. Yes Jesus taught forgiveness, I don't think either the Jews or the Muslims are quite in the New Testament yet. Again you are applying Western values on cultures that ain't there. | |||
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