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One of Us |
https://www.timesofisrael.com/...in-next-24-48-hours/ So here it is. We've been playing patty cake for decades. "Introducing Democracy", "humanitarian missions", negotiating with terrorists. The singer Toby Keith made reference to, "put a boot in your ass!" and this may well be time. There are still today children held hostage by Hamas from the October terrorist attack. I say if Iran strikes it needs to be resoundingly defeated and that with Americans involvement. So many times in recent history the West has quibbled and vacillated over rules of engagement, collateral damage, civilian casualties. With this enemy and at this moment it is the time to fight to win, defeat the enemy. Others can swing in much later for the humanitarian mission. | ||
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| One of Us |
You are 100% correct here. With the amount of hardware we are moving into the region it looks like we have picked out side. Here is my biggest question for now. What if after this show of force the Iranians back down? We will just have to ramp up for it in another year or two. Also what about the West Tiwanese?? If we get seriously engaged in the ME then these is nothing much to stop them from movin. On whatever they want. We are not the US military of the Reagan Era where the plan was to be big and strong enough to fight 2 major wars at the same time plus another regional conflict like Korea. DRSS Kreighoff 470 NE Valmet 412 30/06 & 9.3x74R | |||
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Moderator |
Scott, I have to tell you, I am worried about a reginal nuclear exchange AND "asymmetrical warfare" aimed at the US - with our fearless border czar, hundreds, if not thousands (the hundreds part is documented) of terror watch persons crossing the southern border, I am highly concerned of a terror attack on the US. i have made no bones about it, I am in cyber - I am HIGHLY concerned about critical infrastructure attacks - water systems are PAINFULLY behind in cyber hygiene, and power transmission infra can be taken out with a well placed round at many facilities.. both are LAUGHABLITY under-protected We aren't talking sophisticated attacks here - rather "script kiddie" stuff - where water systems can be fouled, and the electricity can be denied - with next to zero backups/replacements available in real time .. yeah, sure, we can rebuild anything, but the power/water won't be back in hours, or even days. I have been a speaker at many IOT/IC "conferences" talking on the cyberrisk side - if breaking into fort knox is a 100, and stealing a candy bar at the local stab and grab is a 1, breaking critical US infrastructure MIGHT be a 4 .. though after some well hushed windfarm attacks around 2010, maybe windfarms are a 6... we aren't talking super geeks on super computers -- we are talking following along with a youtube video on a walmart laptop and a burner phone for wifi opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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| One of Us |
They physical security side of our infrastructure is worse than the cyber side. Don’t believe me? The next time you drive by the water treatment plant take a look. A easily cut table, crashable, climbable fence and maybe a few cameras that are not manned or viewed even from a SOC/GSOC and are only really used to see what happened after the fact. Lord go look at most schools. It’s the same. Municipal power generation. Same. Rail infrastructure? Again almost nothing. Take a look around while you are out and about this week. DRSS Kreighoff 470 NE Valmet 412 30/06 & 9.3x74R | |||
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| Moderator |
Hasher, you are correct, there is no "eyes on glass" in a contracted gsoc - besides, cameras are a detective control, not a technical control opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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| One of Us |
I'd be curious to see the documentation. If true, it's a wonder there have been no terrorist attacks from such people. | |||
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| One of Us |
I share both of your I believe the West needs to get mean, real mean and right now. Not just accept but embrace civilian casualties and collateral damage. The aim and the goal should be to get messy. FARAFO today is no more than a social media play on words, it needs to be American policy and procedure. If Israel falls tomorrow it'll be Kansas soon after. | |||
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| Administrator |
The New Nazis, the Zionist Occupation Entity, will NEVER live in peace. Over 5 million Palestinians are forced to live in concentration camps. In their own homeland! The whole world is waking up. Just at it did against the crimes of the Nazis. Zionism won't last either! I could imagine some of you cheer leading Adolf in his war against us Semites! November 2nd, 1917 Dear Lord Rothschild, I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet. "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country." I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation. Yours sincerely, Arthur James Balfour | |||
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| One of Us |
Saeed You are still dodging the same question over and over. Why won’t the other Arab nations take the Palestinians in??? Because they are all terrorists and. O o e wants them. You need to get over that z Balfour letter because much like most of the Arab world, it’s meaningless. DRSS Kreighoff 470 NE Valmet 412 30/06 & 9.3x74R | |||
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| one of us |
Look at Texas, an energy diverse state, in the winter of 2021 with a 4 day electrical outage. Imagine that happening in Chicago, Detroit, Boston and New York simultaneously in the dead of winter? Imagine if it was a larger attack, impacting even greater infrastructure for a longer period of time? We are not ready for that and with the march away from fossil fuels and going all electric, we only make it easier for our adversaries. Our enemies are getting poised to beat us without ever firing a shot and we're sleepwalking right into it. | |||
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| One of Us |
Seems like a good time to choose a side. America or other. The West or other. No more hand wringing for the bad guys, no more sympathy for the enemy. Leave it for the UN or Red Cross to mop up the mess, I'll gladly contribute. | |||
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| One of Us |
How much do you reckon it would cost the government to beef up security enough to alleviate the concerns at all the power, water, and other plants? What do you want government to do about the problem? | |||
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| One of Us |
How much do you reckon it will cost the government to repair the damage after an attack? We had a similar conversation recently regarding forestry practices; is it better to spend billions on suppression, the end result being a moonscape on earth, or is it better to spend billions in prevention, the end result being no hair out of place. | |||
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| Administrator |
What an utterly stupid question! Why should the Palestinians, who have been living in their own country for thousands of years, be evicted and sent somewhere else? Never fails, those supporting crimes against humanity are always looking for stupid excuses! | |||
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One of Us |
Scott, You know from past threads that I stand with you here. But I have to ask…which side is Harris on? Because when SHTF…what happens isn’t up to you. It isn’t up to me. It is the choice of the exec in the Whitehouse. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
I think the US picked a side long, long ago. Israel is the single largest recipient of US foreign aid ever. In my mind it is time that the Israeli's start funding their own wars. Not a popular viewpoint, especially among our Christian members but my perspective none the less. | |||
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| One of Us |
Pretty much everything Scott mentioned is up to the executive in the whitehouse..... You have to put the USA first..... . | |||
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| Administrator |
Israel OWNS you silly lot! They are the dog. You are the tail! Bunch of cowards. Made every excuse fir not defending your own citizens! | |||
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| Moderator |
https://homeland.house.gov/202...d-empowered-cartels/ 294 suspects on the terror watch list
opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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| Administrator |
You don’t need terrorists to destroy you. You are doing it yourself! | |||
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One of Us |
Steve - I'm in general agreement that "we" have picked sides and will support Israel for public consumption. However, I also believe that this administration shares critical intelligence with Iran in a pacifist attempt to keep a lid on things. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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| One of Us |
To clarify, are you saying you don't believe there have been any terrorist coming in illegally? Or you just haven't seen the proof. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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| One of Us |
Seems to me that you guys arguing about terrorists crossing the border is delving into some unknowns. One thing is known and that is no acts of terrorism have taken place attributed to illegals. So, this is a case of "it is what it is", and we don't know the full extent of what it is. But there are some things we can count on that will be "is what it is" depending on who is elected as POTUS. Harris has a bipartisan Border Security plan already written, and said she will sign it. You know - the plan Trump quashed for political gain and optics. According to jeffee's stats post above, the terrorist suspects were put on a watch list or apprehended or both. So, this falls in the category of national security, the border being just one aspect. Here's the flip side, should Trump get into office: https://youtu.be/CA4JbsosMf0?si=3FB3bGay7vqhibBE Trump ‘Loyalty tests’ for military, intel agencies: Inside Project 2025 1 day ago Project 2025 dedicates six chapters to "The Common Defense," proposing sweeping changes for the Department of Defense, Homeland Security, and the intelligence community. Its goal is to remove any obstacles to Trump’s authority and entrench right-wing culture wars into governance. The proposals include purging military leaders who don't align with Trump’s policies, eliminating what it terms "divisive critical race theory programs," expelling trans individuals from military service, and requiring military aptitude tests for public school students. Project 2025 advocates “a purge of anyone who might disagree with a second Trump administration,” warns top national security lawyer Mark Zaid. ************* Real conservatives aren't radicalized. Thus "radicalized conservative" is an oxymoron. Yet there are many radicalized republicans. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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| Moderator |
Without a primary inventory and sitrep on conditions, it's hard to say... but, honestly, quite a bit less than most people would think. We discuss "attack surface reduction" in cyber, so starting with risk assessment, physical security, operational security (opsec), security operations (defense), DR/BC planning, conditional access (terrible label, as it's misleading) , proactive security (offense) and mtsc planning... If a single unit tried to do all these things, they have to reinvent everything, with no scale.. therefore (this is basic and intuitive but I will say it anyway) if there was a core group doing the work, the total cost and unit cost is cheaper when n=10,000 than when it's 10,000 one offs. No, not every solution would apply to every situation... but the core of the solutions could be shared. A drinking water plant shares lots of the requirements of a waste water treatment plant, but less is sharing the efforts than a power distribution site... but there is some High percentage of applying a cookie cutter to the same problem, then working the edges... then adding the solutions for those edges into the box of additional cookie cutters to reuse... Same as any large interrelated projects, first couple " turns of the crank" have a higher unit cost than the next block and so on. It's SHOCKING how much cyber security improvements have a very very very low unit cost... for example, closing ports on a firewall have a near zero real additional cost...though, tbh, lots of utilities and pipelines have such a small budget as to be shocking.. Rule of thumb is that decent cyber could be in single digits % of revenue, but in Cases of critical infrastructure, their revenue is artificially depressed, which can make the estimate a histogram rather than a linear progression It costs next to zero to change default passwords, block internet access to a defined range of addresses, ports, and protocols, and secure the source of the passwords. Physical security is within my normal scope, but I think Hasher might have a newer knowledge set that me. At scale, the cost would be far lower than one might think.. or even believe. Basic security, making it way harder to breach, is more a people and operational problem than the perception of buying box trucks of equipment. And by leveraging a fairly consistent team, even the cost of "profound experts" is pretty cheap at scale I would need inventories of the objective before giving even a directional answer, but will to do the mission is harder to come by ... then sticking to the mission comes next So, lower than you might think but more than free opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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| One of Us |
I disagree a little. The executive is going to do what the public wants, now more than ever. The ebb and flow of public opinion and it's command over government actions is obvious. I doubt we'd if heard a single word out of D.C. regarding Palestinian civilians casualties if it weren't for public protest. Afghanistan was lost because the public wouldn't support winning the war. Haiti wasn't invaded by the Marines, (again,) because there was no public support. Regardless the person in office, if the opinion polls demand it, we can see they do it. As to the question about Harris, I believe her entirely unfit to command. It's no secret I have the same opinion of Trump. | |||
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| Moderator |
and i think this is the wrong approach - the POTUS should do what's right, which isn't always what's popular, and check the polls for results - Was it Twain or Einstein that said "the majority is seldom right"? opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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| One of Us |
When you kill an individual in the guest house of a foreign country, one needs to have in their calculus that nation state that had it’s sovereignty violated will retaliate. Boots hold territory. The only and best bet is that Oran will not risk full out war bc they will not want to go up against the U.S. and a coalition of Arabic nations led by Saudi Arabia. The problem there is we have no idea how Russia will back Iran’s play. For example, what happens if Russia guarantees with a few other states to go to a mutual defense pact w Iran. I see this setting up very much like WWI. Is it in U.S. best interest to keep backing Israel in these attacks playing outside of Israel? I am not saying Israel was wrong in killing the Hamas leader. I am saying what benefit was it to kill someone who will be replaced on a week inside Iran. What strategic goal did that killing accomplish? Iran is not going to keep being content w a token show of force over Israel killing targets in Iran and other sovereign territory. I hope the next Chief Executive priorities are not get the U.S. in a ground war due to Israel, Islamic Nation state conflicts. International recognition of Israel by other Islamic Natiok states is the best path to that goal. However, I see Israel’s actions inside Iran as more harmful than helpful to Israel security. In all of Israel’s wars the U.S. did mot mobilize boots on the ground. Israel won those wars. That is great. However, the U.S. policy was not to involve direct military intervention. That is the policy that needs to stay. I learned my lesson w Bush. I would return to more of an Eisenhower approach to Israel being the IS is fair mediator between Israel and Islamic nation states and not one of strategic partnership. | |||
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| One of Us |
Well,two things: 1) I agree, I think generally elected officials should do what's right regardless the ebb and flow of public opinion. I'll have to go looks, but I believe it was President John Quincy Adams that felt the public voiced an opinion or a preference on election day and other than that he would do the job as best he saw fit. I like that alot. 2) This is the reason I like lifetime appointments for some "rulers" like the Judiciary. I'm very happy that Rhenquist and RBG stayed and hope others stay as they see fit. I believe very strongly that we need Old Stick in the Mud(s) to slow us down, reign us in and be immune to the latest poll an hysteria of the hour. I'll add that if we had "rulers" with that kind of fortitude, we wouldn't be i the sad shape we are. The border is actually solvable, we just need a "ruler" with the guts to see it thru. Afghanistan, Iraq , the budget and debt are all solvable, again, a "ruler" with the guts to ignore the polls and let the next election do what it does. | |||
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| Administrator |
Time to pick a side. Your country or your masters! ON JUNE 8, 1967, while patrolling in international waters in the Eastern Mediterranean Sea, USS Liberty (AGTR-5) was savagely attacked without warning or justification by air and naval forces of the state of Israel. Of a crew of 294 officers and men (including three civilians), the ship suffered thirty four (34) killed in action and one hundred seventy three (173) wounded in action. The ship itself, a Forty Million ($40,000,000) Dollar state of the art signals intelligence (SIGINT) platform, was so badly damaged that it never sailed on an operational mission again and was sold in 1970 for $101,666.66 as scrap. At 1400 hours, while approximately about 17 nautical miles off the northern Sinai coast and about 25 nautical miles northwest of El Arish, USS Liberty’s crew observed three surface radar contacts closing with their position at high speed. A few moments later, the bridge radar crew observed high speed aircraft passing over the surface returns on the same heading. Within a few short moments, and without any warning, Israeli fighter aircraft launched a rocket attack on USS Liberty. The aircraft made repeated firing passes, attacking USS Liberty with rockets and their internal cannons. After the first flight of fighter aircraft had exhausted their ordnance, subsequent flights of Israeli fighter aircraft continued to prosecute the attack with rockets, cannon fire, and napalm. During the air attack, USS Liberty’s crew had difficulty contacting Sixth Fleet to request assistance due to intense communications jamming. The initial targets on the ship were the command bridge, communications antennas, and the four .50 caliber machine guns, placed on the ship to repel boarders. After the Israeli fighter aircraft completed their attacks, three Israeli torpedo boats arrived and began a surface attack about 35 minutes after the start of the air attack. The torpedo boats launched a total of five torpedoes, one of which struck the side of USS Liberty, opposite the ship’s research spaces. Twenty-five Americans, in addition to the nine who had been killed in the earlier air attacks, were killed as a result of this explosion. The Department of Defense Law of War Program (DoD Directive 2311.01E – formerly DoD Directive 5100.77) provides that “All reportable incidents committed by or against U.S. personnel, enemy persons, or any other individual are reported promptly, investigated thoroughly, and, where appropriate, remedied by corrective action.” On June 8, 2005 the USS Liberty Veterans Association submitted A Report of War Crimes Committed Against the USS Liberty, June 8, 1967 to the Department of Defense in accordance with the DoD Law of War Program. The War Crimes Report we filed lists allegations of acts committed during the attack on our ship, including: The jamming of our radios on both US Navy tactical and international maritime distress frequencies; The use of unmarked aircraft by the forces attacking the USS Liberty; The deliberate machine gunning of life rafts we had dropped over the side in anticipation of abandoning ship; and The recall of two flights of rescue aircraft that had een launched from Sixth Fleet aircraft carriers. After those flights were recalled, Sixth Fleet personnel listened to our calls for help as the attack continued knowing they were forbidden to come to our assistance. The Department of Defense has unilaterally waived its obligation under the Department of Defense Law of War Program by refusing to investigate the allegations contained in the War Crimes Report. The Department of Defense has also refused to provide a speaker to address the crew of the USS Liberty and explain their actions with regard to the War Crimes Report. | |||
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| One of Us |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
I have been saying for a long time the stage is being set for WWIII. Russia, Iran, and China will be the axis with aid from many many more smaller countries this time. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
100%!!!!! . | |||
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| One of Us |
Well, you've been wrong for a long time then. China sells us too much stuff to want war with us. Russia and Iran together barely rate a second-grade armed force. If Israel and Iran go to war, the US should stay the hell out of it. | |||
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| One of Us |
Who decides “what’s right?” Cause I can guarantee I am 180 with Harris, Biden, & 0bama on “what’s right” and most issues. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
We’ll see Roland. The jury is still out and Taiwan will likely tip the scale. I hope I am wrong. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
The problem is no one agrees on what is right. I can think of 5 executive orders I might sign that would anger the Left. I can think of at least 3 off the top of my head that would make the Right angry. I can articulate a rationale for never signing a policy based executive order that seems to be impractical due to Congress inability to “act.” That would be the point to defer policy to national legislation putting the emphasis on Congress to pass something. So, a President should follow their discretion, make the argument to the people, and the election decides. The most direct way to the White House is to win the popular vote. Besides that, public sentiment is necessary to accomplish policy goals. As Lincoln identified, “ “Public sentiment is everything. With public sentiment, nothing can fail; without it nothing can succeed.” In a word it is called advocacy. The President must be able to advocate for the policy paths the Administration takes. The people through the election co-sign or reject. We are only one vote in that interplay. No one person can declare the national, policy right. The president gets that privilege subject to this interplay. I respect the process. That is why Jan 6 and the Big Election Fraud lie is so important. I person or group who lose that interplay do not get to set aside nor attempt to set aside and undermine that process. I can not like it policy, I can disagree, I can vote, I can donate, I can volunteer, I can enter the public debate. However, the “right” assuming the process is followed is not mine to set. | |||
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Electoral Process, Congress, the Administration that is duly vested regardless of what you like, subject to our system of law based checks and balances. See my response sbove. Being 180 of you is not what is the measure. Policy you disagree w does not make it wrong. Same goes for me. | |||
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| One of Us |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
The process in 2030 was pure in 2020. All your talking just expose la you for what you are. I am glad to oppose you politically. Your word are not my side. The election and our system of law based checks and balances shall decide the right. | |||
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| One of Us |
Saeed, this guy seems to think the Palestinians have made a habit of pissing away opportunities for a half a century... Link "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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