quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
Supply & demand. Take away the demand & the supply dries up. These people come here looking for work as they know US businesses do & will hire them. No different than drugs. The drug trade exists because Americans want it. It's not rocket science. You cannot dry it up as long as the demand is there. The source of the problem is North of the border.

quote:

If drugs weren't available "americans" wouldnt have them....

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:

quote:

If drugs weren't available "americans" wouldnt have them....

Sure. Drugs can only come from somewhere else What a moron.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
Stupid circular argument!

If drugs weren't available "americans" wouldnt have them....

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Neither the Dems nor the Reps are interested in solving the border crisis.
They share the same objective just have different motivations.
Just another in the long list of ways both major parties have failed the country.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

OK, well all I am asking is for somebody to explain to me what the "crisis" is?

"Crisis" to me means some sort of life or death threat...a situation that poses some existential danger to my well-being

1) terrorists entering the country
2) fentanyl
3) diseases (resurgence of resistant TB as one example)
4) overwhelming use of citizen’s resources like emergency rooms for their primary care
5) overuse of infrastructure from a population explosion that was rapid and unanticipated (not to mention paid for by citizens)

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Gotta disagree. It has nothing to do with racism. It has to do with a country controlling its borders and controlling what immigrants are allowed in under what conditions. Is the country’s ability to absorb immigrants unlimited? Of course not. So if our ability to absorb immigrants is limited why do we want to allow the poorest and least educated to immigrate? Has nothing to do with racism. If that were the case then every other country that actually controls their borders is a racist country which is absolutely false.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
I completely don't get it.

All of us here have and do paste a dumb grin on our face and line up like sheep to cross the border and abide by their rules into Canada, Europe, Africa yes Latin America and on.

Why shouldn't they?

Hell Man, I'd love to immigrate to Norway or Finland, Switzerland or Angola, Argentina or Australia or New Zealand tomorrow, but I don't have the means at the moment to legally and comfortably do so, and so I don't force it. Isn't that the right thing to do?

Just at face value it's the right thing to do: secure the border. We shouldn't wait for an Islamic terrorist attack across the border to do something, being proactive is much better than reactive. Why should we wait for an outbreak of Third World disease in America before closing the border? Head it off beforehand.

It just doesn't make sense to allow tens of thousands over the border and in and then say way after the fact, "now what?".

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
I completely don't get it.

All of us here have and do paste a dumb grin on our face and line up like sheep to cross the border and abide by their rules into Canada, Europe, Africa yes Latin America and on.

Why shouldn't they?

Hell Man, I'd love to immigrate to Norway or Finland, Switzerland or Angola, Argentina or Australia or New Zealand tomorrow, but I don't have the means at the moment to legally and comfortably do so, and so I don't force it. Isn't that the right thing to do?

Just at face value it's the right thing to do: secure the border. We shouldn't wait for an Islamic terrorist attack across the border to do something, being proactive is much better than reactive. Why should we wait for an outbreak of Third World disease in America before closing the border? Head it off beforehand.

It just doesn't make sense to allow tens of thousands over the border and in and then say way after the fact, "now what?".

I'll try again: does anybody really think that if Islamic terrorists wanted to cross the southern border that they would be dissuaded by a wall or increased border security efforts? It's 2,000 miles of largely desolate area.


Talk to Israel.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
I completely don't get it.

All of us here have and do paste a dumb grin on our face and line up like sheep to cross the border and abide by their rules into Canada, Europe, Africa yes Latin America and on.

Why shouldn't they?

Hell Man, I'd love to immigrate to Norway or Finland, Switzerland or Angola, Argentina or Australia or New Zealand tomorrow, but I don't have the means at the moment to legally and comfortably do so, and so I don't force it. Isn't that the right thing to do?

Just at face value it's the right thing to do: secure the border. We shouldn't wait for an Islamic terrorist attack across the border to do something, being proactive is much better than reactive. Why should we wait for an outbreak of Third World disease in America before closing the border? Head it off beforehand.

It just doesn't make sense to allow tens of thousands over the border and in and then say way after the fact, "now what?".

I'll try again: does anybody really think that if Islamic terrorists wanted to cross the southern border that they would be dissuaded by a wall or increased border security efforts? It's 2,000 miles of largely desolate area.


Talk to Israel.

I hear you, but you are saying no effort is better than some effort? Give up you are saying?

Damn Man, I'm just about a full on Pacifist, but I'd sure rather see America invade, colonize and make Mexico out 51st state rather than fool around in Iraq or the ukraine.

Israel should do the same with The West Bank and Gaza.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Should countries have borders and regulate who is allowed in, when and how long they can stay?

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
I completely don't get it.

All of us here have and do paste a dumb grin on our face and line up like sheep to cross the border and abide by their rules into Canada, Europe, Africa yes Latin America and on.

Why shouldn't they?

Hell Man, I'd love to immigrate to Norway or Finland, Switzerland or Angola, Argentina or Australia or New Zealand tomorrow, but I don't have the means at the moment to legally and comfortably do so, and so I don't force it. Isn't that the right thing to do?

Just at face value it's the right thing to do: secure the border. We shouldn't wait for an Islamic terrorist attack across the border to do something, being proactive is much better than reactive. Why should we wait for an outbreak of Third World disease in America before closing the border? Head it off beforehand.

It just doesn't make sense to allow tens of thousands over the border and in and then say way after the fact, "now what?".

I'll try again: does anybody really think that if Islamic terrorists wanted to cross the southern border that they would be dissuaded by a wall or increased border security efforts? It's 2,000 miles of largely desolate area.


Talk to Israel.

I hear you, but you are saying no effort is better than some effort? Give up you are saying?

Damn Man, I'm just about a full on Pacifist, but I'd sure rather see America invade, colonize and make Mexico out 51st state rather than fool around in Iraq or the ukraine.

Israel should do the same with The West Bank and Gaza.

Of course not. What I am saying is that the current efforts of the folks on here to try to tie border control to control of terrorism is largely bullshit.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
I completely don't get it.

All of us here have and do paste a dumb grin on our face and line up like sheep to cross the border and abide by their rules into Canada, Europe, Africa yes Latin America and on.

Why shouldn't they?

Hell Man, I'd love to immigrate to Norway or Finland, Switzerland or Angola, Argentina or Australia or New Zealand tomorrow, but I don't have the means at the moment to legally and comfortably do so, and so I don't force it. Isn't that the right thing to do?

Just at face value it's the right thing to do: secure the border. We shouldn't wait for an Islamic terrorist attack across the border to do something, being proactive is much better than reactive. Why should we wait for an outbreak of Third World disease in America before closing the border? Head it off beforehand.

It just doesn't make sense to allow tens of thousands over the border and in and then say way after the fact, "now what?".

I'll try again: does anybody really think that if Islamic terrorists wanted to cross the southern border that they would be dissuaded by a wall or increased border security efforts? It's 2,000 miles of largely desolate area.


Talk to Israel.

I hear you, but you are saying no effort is better than some effort? Give up you are saying?

Damn Man, I'm just about a full on Pacifist, but I'd sure rather see America invade, colonize and make Mexico out 51st state rather than fool around in Iraq or the ukraine.

Israel should do the same with The West Bank and Gaza.

Of course not. What I am saying is that the current efforts of the folks on here to try to tie border control to control of terrorism is largely bullshit.

Then secure the border. Let in whoever you want, you would know better than I and we certainly have the same interests, but secure the border. Let in who you want and don't let in who you don't want. At least give yourself a choice or give yourself some responsibility.

"I dunno what's going on!" doesn't seem like a successful path.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
So we should allow anyone in the world that wants to come into the US to immigrate regardless of how many want to come and where they are coming from so long as they are looking for a better life than where they are coming from? Come one, come all?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Who would I exclude? I would have a rational immigration policy. I would secure the border. I would establish reasonable limits on the number of people allowed to immigrate annually. I would establish a way to prioritize those allowed to immigrate based on education, ability to support themselves, trades, skills or professions, etc. Anyone else would be excluded. Basically do straightforward things that every industrialize country and many third world countries do with their immigration policies.

You embarrass yourself trying to paint this as a racial issue. Particularly with someone like me whose views on such matters are well known.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Should countries have borders and regulate who is allowed in, when and how long they can stay?

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MJines:
So we should allow anyone in the world that wants to come into the US to immigrate regardless of how many want to come and where they are coming from so long as they are looking for a better life than where they are coming from? Come one, come all?[/QUOTE

Well, Mike. No. People on the terrorist list should be excluded. Felons. Some misdemeanor convictions. Who else would you exclude? Anybody that's not white?

Mike.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Who would I exclude? I would have a rational immigration policy. I would secure the border. I would establish reasonable limits on the number of people allowed to immigrate annually. I would establish a way to prioritize those allowed to immigrate based on education, ability to support themselves, trades, skills or professions, etc. Anyone else would be excluded. Basically do straightforward things that every industrialize country and many third world countries do with their immigration policies.

You embarrass yourself trying to paint this as a racial issue. Particularly with someone like me whose views on such matters are well known.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MJines:
So we should allow anyone in the world that wants to come into the US to immigrate regardless of how many want to come and where they are coming from so long as they are looking for a better life than where they are coming from? Come one, come all?[/QUOTE

Well, Mike. No. People on the terrorist list should be excluded. Felons. Some misdemeanor convictions. Who else would you exclude? Anybody that's not white?

Mike.

How do you exclude those exceptions if you don’t control the border? Any great ideas?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I would consider asylum requests on a country specific basis. If you come from a country with a strong history of systemic human rights issues and political persecution, asylum requests may be considered. I would not allow “asylum” to become some buzzword that allows someone from a country with economic and other issues that someone wants to escape but without a demonstrated history of systemic and serious political persecution to evade the normal immigration process. Hey, feel free to argue til your blue in the face that the immigration system is not broken, but just like most reasonable people can appreciate that Trump is a turd, most reasonable people can also see that the existing immigration system is deeply flawed.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:

quote:

If drugs weren't available "americans" wouldnt have them....

Sure. Drugs can only come from somewhere else What a moron.

By wymple's logic, its YOUR fault you got robbed/mugged/carjacked for having the SUPPLY thereby causing the DEMAND for the criminal to take your stuff ...

hey there, close enough, criminals are gunna criminal

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Mike,
Are you for or against the FBI today? Wray was before Congress in the last few weeks testifying how big a threat the wide open southern border was for terrorism.

Yes the CDC credits illegal immigrants for the surge in resistant TB.

Yes they are a strain on internal resources paid for by the current taxpayer.

Yes the cartels traffic human beings.

Fentanyl is killing kids that know no better.

No…there is not unlimited room…there is a finite capacity of any space.

If you want to live in Europe…by all means please move there.

Mitchell’s comments have become so ridiculous that rational discussion is really not possible here.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I already said both sides are guilty of screwing the immigration policy pooch, just like both parties are guilty of fiscal irresponsibility. I think those that try to paint issues like these as Dem or Rep failings are the ones being disingenuous.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Who would I exclude? I would have a rational immigration policy. I would secure the border. I would establish reasonable limits on the number of people allowed to immigrate annually. I would establish a way to prioritize those allowed to immigrate based on education, ability to support themselves, trades, skills or professions, etc. Anyone else would be excluded. Basically do straightforward things that every industrialize country and many third world countries do with their immigration policies.

You embarrass yourself trying to paint this as a racial issue. Particularly with someone like me whose views on such matters are well known.

So, 90% of the people trying to cross the border would be prevented from crossing the border under your policy. Benevolent.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I am fine with ICE raiding employers to identify and detain illegal aliens and sanction employers.

Appears we have a philosophical difference of opinion. I believe countries should have borders. I believe countries should control their borders and access across those borders. I believe immigration should not be and cannot be unlimited. I believe that just because someone has a tough situation in their home country and wants to come to the US that is not a viable reason to immigrate. I believe that the US should prioritize immigration focusing on immigrants that are educated, financially stable, possessing needed skills or training, etc. I believe that any immigrant guilty of a crime, unable or unwilling to support themself or their families should be deported. I do not believe that the US should become the repository of the world’s poor and uneducated, we have enough of that to deal with as it is without doubling down on it. Pretty sure my beliefs are reflective of those shared by a majority of Americans.

Oh, and I do not need a history lesson on the US and immigration and what happened or took place a century ago with immigration. My belief is that the country’s situation, and the world situation, are materially different today than at the turn of the last century. What made sense as an immigration policy then, is not the solution today.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Mike,
Are you for or against the FBI today? Wray was before Congress in the last few weeks testifying how big a threat the wide open southern border was for terrorism.

Yes the CDC credits illegal immigrants for the surge in resistant TB.

Yes they are a strain on internal resources paid for by the current taxpayer.

Yes the cartels traffic human beings.

Fentanyl is killing kids that know no better.

No…there is not unlimited room…there is a finite capacity of any space.

If you want to live in Europe…by all means please move there.

Mitchell’s comments have become so ridiculous that rational discussion is really not possible here.

1. Suddenly, you are a fan of the FBI? Unless they are investigating your boy. Laughable.

So you don’t believe the FBI? Or just when they say the terror threat is higher than it ever has been due to the open southern border?

2. How much TB? When? Dangerous to our population? Did some have the flu too? Cite me something about how dangerous immigrants and TB have been.

Biden’s open borders are bringing contagious diseases to your neighborhood

While rare in the USA in 2015…TB infects about 1/3 of the global population

3. They are a strain on taxpayer resources to some extent as we have discussed, and I have acknowledged. Then, they get jobs and support themselves and their families.

I admit they work and am in agreement that we should give them work permits with tax ID numbers. But…the burdens on resources never goes away and their increasing burden always exceeds resource development. I listened to the (D) Mayor of Eagle Pass lament on this subject yesterday…asking for border control.

4. Yes, the cartels traffic human beings. Which has what to do with our discussion? The worker who is building your house or road has what to do with that?

It has to do with lack of border control.

5. Fentanyl kills. What does that have to do with what we are talking about? You think the folks coming from Mexico deal Fentanyl? I guess the Fentanyl business isn't as good as I have heard. If it was, why would these folks be coming across the border to bus our tables?

Fentanyl is assembled in Mexico but the market is in the USA (due to the liberal induced decline of our country). Stopping it starts at the border. IE: strong border control

6. We got plenty of room.

This is the problem you don’t see it. You live in the city where expansion happens away from you. You get up every day and see the same old shit you have seen for the last decade. I live in rural Texas where I see the lessening of space on a yearly basis and it is happening exponentially now. Space is ‘finite’…we don’t have plenty. I has changed unbelievablely in just the last few years.

7. I love Europe. But, I like Texas better.

If you don't think you can respond to my comments Lane, then don't. You probably shouldn/t anyway unless you can come up with something better than this fucking nonsensical bullshit.

You have really shown your true colors in this thread Mike. “You” are partly responsible for the decline of the USA. Your thought process (using the phrase liberally) is absolutely ridiculous, idiotic, and anti-USA.