quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:

quote:

So do you order scrambled chickens for breakfast?

and
there you go-
proving my point about slippery slope

killing no longer matters

ONLY the verbiage matters

quote:

A non viable fetus is not a human.

quote:

These things are best left to the woman to decide

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

A non viable fetus is not a human.

So what is a viable fetus?

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
and
you care ,
because?

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

These things are best left to the woman to decide

So, are you opposed to the SCOTUS decision to gut Row v Wade?

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

These things are best left to the woman to decide

So, are you opposed to the SCOTUS decision to gut Row v Wade?

Correct

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
and
you care ,
because?

Frankly it doesn’t matter to me but I strongly suspect you think it makes you look more erudite- it doesn’t. And, of course, you didn’t answer the question……

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

A non viable fetus is not a human.

So what is a viable fetus?

24 weeks according to the NIH:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.go...th%20GA%3C25%20weeks.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

A non viable fetus is not a human.

So what is a viable fetus?

24 weeks according to the NIH:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.go...th%20GA%3C25%20weeks.

Well, I disagree. Viability is determined from the moment of conception. Other factors may play into it, but given the natural course, viability is certain. Time, such as 24 weeks is arbitrary.

quote:

These things are best left to the woman to decide, - -.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

A non viable fetus is not a human.

So what is a viable fetus?

24 weeks according to the NIH:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.go...th%20GA%3C25%20weeks.

Well, I disagree. Viability is determined from the moment of conception. Other factors may play into it, but given the natural course, viability is certain. Time, such as 24 weeks is arbitrary.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

A non viable fetus is not a human.

So what is a viable fetus?

24 weeks according to the NIH:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.go...th%20GA%3C25%20weeks.

Well, I disagree. Viability is determined from the moment of conception. Other factors may play into it, but given the natural course, viability is certain. Time, such as 24 weeks is arbitrary.

Try putting a zygote in a Petri dish and see how long it survives…

quote:

24 weeks according to the NIH:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

A non viable fetus is not a human.

So what is a viable fetus?

quote:

So how does a fetus at say 12 weeks survive outside the womb? It does not, therefore it is not considered viable.

quote:

Try putting a zygote in a Petri dish and see how long it survives

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
How would you treat gender dysphoria?

Feel free to consult with our veterinarian.

As previously mentioned several times, the Vet has a fairly good handle on biology and physiology, but anyway,....

Were it me in my house with my two step kids and daughter, I would "treat" gender dysphoria with love and compassion, truck loads of caution and so to speak conservatism, with generous helpings of education and sought out wisdom.

Meaning, immediate should be obviously continued care for the child. Consideration and recognition of their feelings with some accomodations like wardrobe and activities, i.e., if they now think their a boy I'm not going to force pink skirts, if they think they're now a girl I'm not going to force boys sports teams. If switching bathrooms and lockerrooms is suddenly an issue I know a couple meetings with school staff could make for accomodations like unisex or their own bathroom, private dressing rooms and the like. It would be outrageous for me or any other family of a 12 year old boy to suddenly insist he be called Shirley and he's the new girls volleyball team star player.

I would advise mine or any kid that just because they feel it's now time for this 180 reversal of any kind doesn't necessarily mean the rest of the world is and so all their change will have to come incrementally, slowly, in baby steps. If you want to grow your hair out, that's fine, no, we're not scheduling sex change surgery this summer before school starts.

Finally, yeah, for now Daddy does know best. I take full responsibility for my kids, their triumphs are my fault, their failures are entirely my fault. I bear sole responsibility for my offsprings travels down the path to adulthood and it's my job to keep them on that path and minimize the stubbed toes so they can make progress on the path. On the way to adulthood exploration off the path is limited.

Especially considering our history, modern parents should see plainly that children need guidelines, parameters, boundaries. "Youth" isn't a meadow of endless pleasures and distractions to prance thru and the two adults that made that kid should be, can be best suited to guide on the "Straight and Narrow".

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Ledvm's judgment is skewed by his religion and politics.

. . . in spades.

Everyones judgement is skewed by their beliefs and politics.
We shouldn't make that the detriment of others without first recognising our own.

But most of us believe in keeping our beliefs at home and allowing others to live a life consistent with their own beliefs, not Lane though, he knows what is best for everyone.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Ledvm's judgment is skewed by his religion and politics.

. . . in spades.

Everyones judgement is skewed by their beliefs and politics.
We shouldn't make that the detriment of others without first recognising our own.

But most of us believe in keeping our beliefs at home and allowing others to live a life consistent with their own beliefs, not Lane though, he knows what is best for everyone.

Yeah....that's why we have drag queen story hour and a same sex couple on every television add and sitcom......

.

quote:

Originally posted by Huvius:

quote:

Show me in the New Testament where Jesus or the Apostle books continue to Old Testament condemnation on gay marriage/union.

Here's four.

Romans 1:26–27:

"For this reason [viz. idolatry], God gave them up to passions of dishonor; for even their females exchanged the natural use for that which is contrary to nature, and likewise also the males, having left the natural use of the female, were inflamed by their lust for one another, males with males, committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error."

1 Corinthians 6:9-10:

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind"

1 Timothy 1:9-10:

"Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine"

JUde 1:7:

"Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

Now, since you brought religion into the conversation, you make the common mistake that Jesus and the New Testament, discarded the Old Testament.
This isn't at all true. They built upon the Jewish Law and traditions.

You seem to uphold the validity of transgenderism based on establishing truth through consensus.
Enough people believe it's OK so everybody has to accept it as OK. (?)
I'd submit that more Americans believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and the Son of God than believe that a man can attain female status just by desire or through body modification.
So, where does that leave us? The majority wins?
Of course, you guys would have none of that.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
How would you treat gender dysphoria?

Feel free to consult with our veterinarian.

As previously mentioned several times, the Vet has a fairly good handle on biology and physiology, but anyway,....

Were it me in my house with my two step kids and daughter, I would "treat" gender dysphoria with love and compassion, truck loads of caution and so to speak conservatism, with generous helpings of education and sought out wisdom.

Meaning, immediate should be obviously continued care for the child. Consideration and recognition of their feelings with some accomodations like wardrobe and activities, i.e., if they now think their a boy I'm not going to force pink skirts, if they think they're now a girl I'm not going to force boys sports teams. If switching bathrooms and lockerrooms is suddenly an issue I know a couple meetings with school staff could make for accomodations like unisex or their own bathroom, private dressing rooms and the like. It would be outrageous for me or any other family of a 12 year old boy to suddenly insist he be called Shirley and he's the new girls volleyball team star player.

I would advise mine or any kid that just because they feel it's now time for this 180 reversal of any kind doesn't necessarily mean the rest of the world is and so all their change will have to come incrementally, slowly, in baby steps. If you want to grow your hair out, that's fine, no, we're not scheduling sex change surgery this summer before school starts.

Finally, yeah, for now Daddy does know best. I take full responsibility for my kids, their triumphs are my fault, their failures are entirely my fault. I bear sole responsibility for my offsprings travels down the path to adulthood and it's my job to keep them on that path and minimize the stubbed toes so they can make progress on the path. On the way to adulthood exploration off the path is limited.

Especially considering our history, modern parents should see plainly that children need guidelines, parameters, boundaries. "Youth" isn't a meadow of endless pleasures and distractions to prance thru and the two adults that made that kid should be, can be best suited to guide on the "Straight and Narrow".

Scott that was well thought out and well written. I agree 100% with everything you wrote except about their success and their failures....

We all have different strengths and failures...you show a lot of strength.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Hypocrisy here, no?

Lane pushes traditional Christian values and you push modern social conformism.

You both are doing the same act, and you are both convinced you are right.

Both sides have some serious flaws, especially when being enforced by zealots.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Ledvm's judgment is skewed by his religion and politics.

. . . in spades.

Everyones judgement is skewed by their beliefs and politics.
We shouldn't make that the detriment of others without first recognising our own.

But most of us believe in keeping our beliefs at home and allowing others to live a life consistent with their own beliefs, not Lane though, he knows what is best for everyone.

The only thing I'm pushing is equal and fair treatment for everybody and taking the position that all or even a significant number of transgender people are pedophiles or have pedophilic tendencies or that they want to normalize pedophilia is bullshit.

All of this goes to the statement I made the other day: transgender issues have replaced abortion for the far right whackos.

Ive genuinely missed where this was said. Can you save me the effort of reading through it all to find that statement?

What I have seen outside this forum is that there is a small group that is aligning itself with the lbgtq community that do wish to normalise such. Elon Musk made a point yesterday of banning such a person from Twitter and saying not here, never here.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Hypocrisy here, no?

Lane pushes traditional Christian values and you push modern social conformism.

You both are doing the same act, and you are both convinced you are right.

Both sides have some serious flaws, especially when being enforced by zealots.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Ledvm's judgment is skewed by his religion and politics.

. . . in spades.

Everyones judgement is skewed by their beliefs and politics.
We shouldn't make that the detriment of others without first recognising our own.

But most of us believe in keeping our beliefs at home and allowing others to live a life consistent with their own beliefs, not Lane though, he knows what is best for everyone.

Actually, no. My premise is pretty much always the same, mind your own damn business. Something that is a foreign concept to Lane. I couldn't care less how he worships, or what he does in the privacy of his home. The same cannot be said for Lane, in this very thread he happily admitted to wanting to bring Jesus to everyone, whether they want it or not. Hardly the same Dr. Butler and I think you can see the difference as well.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
Libertarian? Really?

Libertarians do not advocate for religion brought to you via the Government, that is what fundamentalists do.

From the libertarian party website: "as Libertarians, we all fundamentally respect each other’s rights to worship and live our lives as we choose and to make sure the government stays out of it."

https://www.lp.org/what-religion-are-libertarians/


That is not you Lane, you repeatedly advocate for using the Government to cram Christianity down the throats of the unwilling.

Just be honest about your positions, there is nothing Libertarian about them.

Exactly what part of Christianity do I advocate government to cram down anyone’s throat?

Have you forgotten the School prayer discussion that you started? That would be a prime example.....

A lot of schools “want” prayer. They should be “allowed” to have them IF they choose — no mandate. I know, a very libertarian way of seeing things.

Your position on abortion would be another.

My position on abortion is supported by my faith…but…I have seen 60-90 day fetuses struggle to live and evade death. They are the most innocent and voiceless life form on earth. I abhor killing them. They don’t want to be killed.

How we are willing to treat this most innocent and helpless human life says a lot about our society. Giving them a voice is NOTHING but good.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

So how does a fetus at say 12 weeks survive outside the womb? It does not, therefore it is not considered viable.

Apparently that's the key argument.

So, let's reduce it to viability.

Is a newborn viable without milk?

Is the unborn viable without the womb?

It's a matter of timing and need. It's the same critter, different stages of development.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

A non viable fetus is not a human.

So what is a viable fetus?

Well, for what it’s worth, The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, American Medical Association, American Academy of Family Physicians, American Academy of Nursing, American Academy of Pediatrics, American Association of Public Health Physicians, American College of Medical Genetics and Genomics, American College of Nurse-Midwives, American College of Osteopathic Obstetricians and Gynecologists, American College of Physicians, American Gynecological and Obstetrical Society, American Medical Women’s Association, American Psychiatric Association, American Society for Reproductive Medicine, Association of Women’s Health, Obstetric and Neonatal Nurses, Council of University Chairs of Obstetrics and Gynecology, GLMA: Health Professionals Advancing LGBTQ Equality, North American Society for Pediatric and Adolescent Gynecology, National Medical Association, National Association of Nurse Practitioners in Women’s Health, Society for Academic Specialists in General Obstetrics and Gynecology, Society of Family Planning, Society of General Internal Medicine, Society of Gynecologic Oncology, and Society of OB/GYN Hospitalists, all agree that it is the first point in pregnancy at which fetal life can be medically sustained outside the pregnant person’s body. Generally 23 to 24 weeks by medical consensus. But what in the hell do they know.

quote:

Mind your own damn business......hmmm...... Privacy of you own home.......hmmm.......

Did you daughter get bumped off the varsity girls swim team by a guy? Did that guy wanting to be a,woman keep it in privacy of its own home??!!

Has your daughter been in the locker room shower with a guy wanting to be a woman????? Did that guy keep it in his own home?????

Christians need to keep it in their own home......not the mentally deranged? They need to be mainstream, right?

Hypocrisy runs rampant on the left.......

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Hypocrisy here, no?

Lane pushes traditional Christian values and you push modern social conformism.

You both are doing the same act, and you are both convinced you are right.

Both sides have some serious flaws, especially when being enforced by zealots.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Ledvm's judgment is skewed by his religion and politics.

. . . in spades.

Everyones judgement is skewed by their beliefs and politics.
We shouldn't make that the detriment of others without first recognising our own.

But most of us believe in keeping our beliefs at home and allowing others to live a life consistent with their own beliefs, not Lane though, he knows what is best for everyone.

Actually, no. My premise is pretty much always the same, mind your own damn business. Something that is a foreign concept to Lane. I couldn't care less how he worships, or what he does in the privacy of his home. The same cannot be said for Lane, in this very thread he happily admitted to wanting to bring Jesus to everyone, whether they want it or not. Hardly the same Dr. Butler and I think you can see the difference as well.

Mind your own damn business......hmmm...... Privacy of you own home.......hmmm.......

Did you daughter get bumped off the varsity girls swim team by a guy? Did that guy wanting to be a,woman keep it in privacy of its own home??!!

Has your daughter been in the locker room shower with a guy wanting to be a woman????? Did that guy keep it in his own home?????

Christians need to keep it in their own home......not the mentally deranged? They need to be mainstream, right?

Hypocrisy runs rampant on the left.......

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I think calling abortion murder, taking the position that abortion should be banned outright, etc. are usually shouted the loudest by those that have never found themselves in a situation where their child or wife was raped and impregnated, a niece was the victim of incest, a family member was told their fetus had some serious, incurable defect, etc. They have never had any skin in the game yet they pontificate that a one size fits all answer is appropriate. You have to wonder if they ever found themselves in the situation how would they feel to be told, tough luck you have no choice your wife or daughter is going to have to carry that bastard’s child to term, you are going to just have to find a way to cope with an incurable defect that leaves your child a vegetable, etc. My guess is many would still be screaming just screaming about the injustice of the result.

quote:

When you think about it, any need for an abortion is a failure of our society.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

When you think about it, any need for an abortion is a failure of our society.

Exactly!!!!

.