quote:

Originally posted by Stubbleduck:
I suspect that any lawyer without an extensive medical background would find themselves quickly in deep water when questioning Dr. Easter on physiology, anatomy, and medicine in general. Veterinarians deal with far more complexity in their training and practice than physicians due to the obvious differences in their cliental.

quote:

Originally posted by Stubbleduck:
I suspect that any lawyer without an extensive medical background would find themselves quickly in deep water when questioning Dr. Easter on physiology, anatomy, and medicine in general. Veterinarians deal with far more complexity in their training and practice than physicians due to the obvious differences in their cliental.

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
We allow Medics in the military and EMT's address humans on critical injuries.
The US Government permits that.
Just saying...But likely far more capable than legal council.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by Stubbleduck:
I suspect that any lawyer without an extensive medical background would find themselves quickly in deep water when questioning Dr. Easter on physiology, anatomy, and medicine in general. Veterinarians deal with far more complexity in their training and practice than physicians due to the obvious differences in their cliental.

I'm not sure of that, I did pretty well with it and I'm no lawyer.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
And no State permits vets to treat humans.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Some on both sides are overstating things.

Dr. Easter is more correct re there undoubtedly being some responses with a human embryo. The neural tube closes in humans in the 4th week. You have specialized neural tissue in humans that early. Once you have neural tissue, I expect some reaction to outside stimulus. Is it conscious? We have no evidence of that, and I expect the horses moving is more an unconscious response to a stimulus than anything else as well.

If you are stating that a fetus wiggling away from a noxious stimulus isn’t “struggling” on a semantic basis, that’s fine.

Consciousness isn’t a definition of life.

Is there some sort of brain function once you have the differentiated neural tissue? Yes. Is it organized? We don’t know. Certainly it’s not comparable to a conscious adult brain pattern, but then neither is a newborn’s.

The definition of human life is very difficult to make.

quote:

Originally posted by Stubbleduck:
I suspect that any lawyer without an extensive medical background would find themselves quickly in deep water when questioning Dr. Easter on physiology, anatomy, and medicine in general. Veterinarians deal with far more complexity in their training and practice than physicians due to the obvious differences in their cliental.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by Stubbleduck:
I suspect that any lawyer without an extensive medical background would find themselves quickly in deep water when questioning Dr. Easter on physiology, anatomy, and medicine in general. Veterinarians deal with far more complexity in their training and practice than physicians due to the obvious differences in their cliental.

Everybody is an expert on everything. I guess cross-examination is your area of expertise?

I wonder how lawyers who prosecute complex medical malpractice cases get along without being doctors?

Hmmm....preparation?

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
And yet somehow, you still remain wrong

Go back and read Dr. Butler's statement on reflexive motion at 17-18 weeks. This hardly supports your assertion.

I have read up on the subject of fetal development on the net, and my reading comprehension remains very strong.

You are bullshitting us Lane and that is quite clear.

One thing that is clear…”you” don’t have to the knowledge base to make the determination.

A reflexive action requires an intact nervous system to the spinal level minimally. An instinctive reflex to evade (as Roland presented) grasp…requires minimally brain-stem function — fact.

I seem to have enough knowledge base to understand the difference between the horseshit you have been selling and the facts of fetal development.

Your claim that a 60 day human fetus struggles for survival is total



A bit of math shows 17 weeks is 119 days, this is where Dr. Butler says you see reflexive action. That is much farther along than 60 days. Reflexive action is not struggling to survive either.

Struggling definition from Merriam Webster:
1
: to make strenuous or violent efforts in the face of difficulties or opposition
struggling with the problem
2
: to proceed with difficulty or with great effort
struggled through the high grass
struggling to make a living

No 60 day fetus struggles for anything Lane. You know that and so do I.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
The brain stem is the most primitive part of the brain. Doesn't it control autonomic functions like breathing and heartbeat? The instinct to avoid danger seems like a primitive response.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Some on both sides are overstating things.

Dr. Easter is more correct re there undoubtedly being some responses with a human embryo. The neural tube closes in humans in the 4th week. You have specialized neural tissue in humans that early. Once you have neural tissue, I expect some reaction to outside stimulus. Is it conscious? We have no evidence of that, and I expect the horses moving is more an unconscious response to a stimulus than anything else as well.

If you are stating that a fetus wiggling away from a noxious stimulus isn’t “struggling” on a semantic basis, that’s fine.

Consciousness isn’t a definition of life.

Is there some sort of brain function once you have the differentiated neural tissue? Yes. Is it organized? We don’t know. Certainly it’s not comparable to a conscious adult brain pattern, but then neither is a newborn’s.

The definition of human life is very difficult to make.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Stubbleduck:
I suspect that any lawyer without an extensive medical background would find themselves quickly in deep water when questioning Dr. Easter on physiology, anatomy, and medicine in general. Veterinarians deal with far more complexity in their training and practice than physicians due to the obvious differences in their cliental.

. . . spoken like someone who I highly doubt has ever hired an expert witness for a significant dispute.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
There’s a big difference between consulting expert witnesses and testifying expert witnesses. Hence the reason why the rules of evidence distinguish between what is discoverable from both.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
If you were deposed, you must have been identified as a witness. Not a consulting expert.

About how many depositions have you given? Ever change or modify an opinion based on a depo you gave? I.e., did you ever change your mind because of something you learned in a depo?

I took hundreds of depos, and was deposed once myself. I guess I'd rather be the one asking questions.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
And yet somehow, you still remain wrong

Go back and read Dr. Butler's statement on reflexive motion at 17-18 weeks. This hardly supports your assertion.

I have read up on the subject of fetal development on the net, and my reading comprehension remains very strong.

You are bullshitting us Lane and that is quite clear.

One thing that is clear…”you” don’t have to the knowledge base to make the determination.

A reflexive action requires an intact nervous system to the spinal level minimally. An instinctive reflex to evade (as Roland presented) grasp…requires minimally brain-stem function — fact.

I seem to have enough knowledge base to understand the difference between the horseshit you have been selling and the facts of fetal development.

Your claim that a 60 day human fetus struggles for survival is total



A bit of math shows 17 weeks is 119 days, this is where Dr. Butler says you see reflexive action. That is much farther along than 60 days. Reflexive action is not struggling to survive either.

Struggling definition from Merriam Webster:
1
: to make strenuous or violent efforts in the face of difficulties or opposition
struggling with the problem
2
: to proceed with difficulty or with great effort
struggled through the high grass
struggling to make a living

No 60 day fetus struggles for anything Lane. You know that and so do I.

One thing we have established is that you know or understand very little as it pertains to this topic.

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
Define expert.
Education? If so how much
Experience? If so how much

Is there a "Diploma" for the expert designation?
I place experience far ahead of diplomas but there is no definition. Simply hearsay.
All relative.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
If you were deposed, you must have been identified as a witness. Not a consulting expert.

About how many depositions have you given? Ever change or modify an opinion based on a depo you gave? I.e., did you ever change your mind because of something you learned in a depo?

I took hundreds of depos, and was deposed once myself. I guess I'd rather be the one asking questions.

Roland,
I have been through so many depositions as an expert over the last 2 decades…I would not even hazard a guess. These cases tend to drag on forever.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
And yet somehow, you still remain wrong

Go back and read Dr. Butler's statement on reflexive motion at 17-18 weeks. This hardly supports your assertion.

I have read up on the subject of fetal development on the net, and my reading comprehension remains very strong.

You are bullshitting us Lane and that is quite clear.

One thing that is clear…”you” don’t have to the knowledge base to make the determination.

A reflexive action requires an intact nervous system to the spinal level minimally. An instinctive reflex to evade (as Roland presented) grasp…requires minimally brain-stem function — fact.

I seem to have enough knowledge base to understand the difference between the horseshit you have been selling and the facts of fetal development.

Your claim that a 60 day human fetus struggles for survival is total



A bit of math shows 17 weeks is 119 days, this is where Dr. Butler says you see reflexive action. That is much farther along than 60 days. Reflexive action is not struggling to survive either.

Struggling definition from Merriam Webster:
1
: to make strenuous or violent efforts in the face of difficulties or opposition
struggling with the problem
2
: to proceed with difficulty or with great effort
struggled through the high grass
struggling to make a living

No 60 day fetus struggles for anything Lane. You know that and so do I.

One thing we have established is that you know or understand very little as it pertains to this topic.

We have also established that you have greatly over stated your case. There has been no evidence that I have read in this thread or anywhere else that supports a 60 day fetus struggling for anything. A reflexive reaction at that stage....maybe but we have no evidence of a conscious struggle for life.

You are still full of shit Lane.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
And yet somehow, you still remain wrong

Go back and read Dr. Butler's statement on reflexive motion at 17-18 weeks. This hardly supports your assertion.

I have read up on the subject of fetal development on the net, and my reading comprehension remains very strong.

You are bullshitting us Lane and that is quite clear.

One thing that is clear…”you” don’t have to the knowledge base to make the determination.

A reflexive action requires an intact nervous system to the spinal level minimally. An instinctive reflex to evade (as Roland presented) grasp…requires minimally brain-stem function — fact.

I seem to have enough knowledge base to understand the difference between the horseshit you have been selling and the facts of fetal development.

Your claim that a 60 day human fetus struggles for survival is total



A bit of math shows 17 weeks is 119 days, this is where Dr. Butler says you see reflexive action. That is much farther along than 60 days. Reflexive action is not struggling to survive either.

Struggling definition from Merriam Webster:
1
: to make strenuous or violent efforts in the face of difficulties or opposition
struggling with the problem
2
: to proceed with difficulty or with great effort
struggled through the high grass
struggling to make a living

No 60 day fetus struggles for anything Lane. You know that and so do I.

One thing we have established is that you know or understand very little as it pertains to this topic.

We have also established that you have greatly over stated your case. There has been no evidence that I have read in this thread or anywhere else that supports a 60 day fetus struggling for anything. A reflexive reaction at that stage....maybe but we have no evidence of a conscious struggle for life.

You are still full of shit Lane.

I know this will be above you pay-grade but I will pose it for all.

Is the “flight reflex” not the very basic struggle for life?

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
If you were deposed, you must have been identified as a witness. Not a consulting expert.

About how many depositions have you given? Ever change or modify an opinion based on a depo you gave? I.e., did you ever change your mind because of something you learned in a depo?

I took hundreds of depos, and was deposed once myself. I guess I'd rather be the one asking questions.

Roland,
I have been through so many depositions as an expert over the last 2 decades…I would not even hazard a guess. These cases tend to drag on forever.

I'm surprised you have time to do anything else.

I had no idea there is so much equine litigation. I guess I missed a lucrative area of practice.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Yeah, but an earthworm has an instinct to flee from danger too.

I don't think a flight instinct says anything about whether a fetus is a person.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
Dna tells you it is a human fetus, a fetus is not a person.

They are not the same and every trained medical professional knows the difference.

This last statement ^^^ deserves the BS flag.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:


A fetus is not a person. You know it and I know it.

fetus: an offspring of a human or other mammal in the stages of prenatal development that follow the embryo stage (in humans taken as beginning eight weeks after conception)
"adequate folic acid is important for the developing fetus"


People(a person) are not in a prenatal stage of development.


Why must you play these ridiculous word games?