Where Art And Taxidermy Come Together!

Make no mistake the taxidermy work is incredible. That said, I would actually be embarrassed to claim that lion . . . sorry but just not my idea of a "wild" lion.

Super work! TAM knows how to grow hair on lions.

Great taxidermy.

Mike - I don't see where anyone said the lion was "wild."

You are absolutely correct, although I doubt that the hunter is claiming that the lion was not wild.

quote:

Originally posted by Macs B:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
You are absolutely correct, although I doubt that the hunter is claiming that the lion was not wild.

Do you happen to have any definitive reason to state that this lion is other than wild? OP makes no assertion that this animal was wild or farmed. Just your opinion perhaps.

Nothing like crapping on a poster for showing some nice taxidermy.

Tamm is known for captive bred Lions so I suspect that Lion is not wild. That said, it is legal and no one else's business except that person that took it.

Mike Jines, what's up with you? That was a totally tasteless comment. About like going on a Mopar collector's Forum and crapping on someone's picture of their 64 Dart because you as a Superbird owner, would never own the Dart.

Tasteless!! Do you know the hunter involved? He may well be a member here. If you don't know the hunter than you have zero idea what he may be saying about the Lion. Regardless, it's his legal Lion to represent as he wishes and how exactly does it change your life?

Seriously
Jim

Disregard the innuendo. Some people can not help themselves. The fact is that the facial expression and detail is amazing and clearly displays a superior artistic talent. Well done!!

Guess what Jim, I am entitled to express an opinion. Seriously. The post was started by a taxidermist. I stated up front that the taxidermy was top notch. I am not insulting the work of the taxidermist. Beyond the taxidermy, I would not personally be proud to display that trophy. Seriously. That trophy has more to do with someone's pocketbook than anything hunting related. That said, if the post had been started by the hunter, I probably would have just moved on . . . but it was started by a taxidermist. One can admire the taxidermy without admiring the trophy. Seriously.

Mike

I have no idea what your problem is--but you have been pissing on people for months now.

You use to be a reasonable person--whats wrong?

SSR

Hey thanks for the compliments on the taxidermy!!! Did not expect this response Keep in mind the most recent state of lion hunting! With the USFWS threatening to change importing regs and the fear of not being able to import your trophy has affected when and how one may take a trophy lion. And if we are talking money it is much more expensive and a longer waiting list to take a true wild lion.

Thanks again

The taxidermy is excellent.

The thing that strikes me as odd/unusual about the lion is the multicolored mane . Quite interesting.

Gorgeous taxidermy job. Cats seem to be very difficult to get done so well.

personary, I rove that rion, he is rovery.

It's very nice taxidermy, which I think is the purpose of this thread. Further comment should be on another forum. No, I'm not a moderator.

Great looking mount and congrats to the hunter. Looks like I will have to refrain from ever posting a picture now on AR along with never posting a hunting report. To bad things have gotten to this point. Can't believe some have to "ALWAYS" trash another hunters post/pics on here. Sad.

Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
R8 Blaser

As my 18 month old would say.


Dad I wan dat won!

Nice work, one of the best I have ever seen.

If life craps me enough money to go shoot a lion I am shipping it to you with another pile of money.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
That trophy has more to do with someone's pocketbook....

Let's be honest with ourselves.....the same is basically true of most trophies in one way or another.

There are folks like Mike Jines who go to Africa to hunt dangerous game. Others go to collect trophies. For what it is worth, I side with Mike. The only "trophy" worth taking is one taken under free range, wild conditions where fair chase is employed vice shooting a pen raised animal. You might as well shoot it in the pen and save yourself the walk.
The taxidermy is spectacular, and I take my hat off the the folks doing the work. I wish there were a few more wild lions out there of this quality. Now that would be something worth posting!

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74:
There are folks like Mike Jines . Others go to collect trophies. For what it is worth, I side with Mike.
You might as well shoot it in the pen and save yourself the walk.
The taxidermy is spectacular, and I take my hat off the the folks doing the work. I wish there were a few more wild lions out there of this quality. Now that would be something worth posting!

So Admiral,

Only folks that you decide fit the definition of "The only "trophy" worth taking is one taken under free range, wild conditions where fair chase is employed vice shooting a pen raised animal" should ever have a post on here including the taxidermist that did the work?

Great!!

Any idea how many whitetail deer are taken in the lower 48 on fenced areas with controlled genetics?

I'm sure you're just as opinionated about that!!

Cheers
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74:
There are folks like Mike Jines . Others go to collect trophies. For what it is worth, I side with Mike.
You might as well shoot it in the pen and save yourself the walk.
The taxidermy is spectacular, and I take my hat off the the folks doing the work. I wish there were a few more wild lions out there of this quality. Now that would be something worth posting!

So Admiral,

Only folks that you decide fit the definition of "The only "trophy" worth taking is one taken under free range, wild conditions where fair chase is employed vice shooting a pen raised animal" should ever have a post on here including the taxidermist that did the work?

Great!!

Any idea how many whitetail deer are taken in the lower 48 on fenced areas with controlled genetics?

I'm sure you're just as opinionated about that!!

Cheers
Jim

Jim - actually, you are correct. I personally would not shoot a deer in a high fenced area. I feel there is a difference between hunting game and shooting game. This is just my opinion - I am not forcing it on anyone else. Once again, I think the taxidermy on the lion posted is pretty spectacular.

very well said!

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Macs B:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
You are absolutely correct, although I doubt that the hunter is claiming that the lion was not wild.

Do you happen to have any definitive reason to state that this lion is other than wild? OP makes no assertion that this animal was wild or farmed. Just your opinion perhaps.

Nothing like crapping on a poster for showing some nice taxidermy.

Tamm is known for captive bred Lions so I suspect that Lion is not wild. That said, it is legal and no one else's business except that person that took it.

Mike Jines, what's up with you? That was a totally tasteless comment. About like going on a Mopar collector's Forum and crapping on someone's picture of their 64 Dart because you as a Superbird owner, would never own the Dart.

Tasteless!! Do you know the hunter involved? He may well be a member here. If you don't know the hunter than you have zero idea what he may be saying about the Lion. Regardless, it's his legal Lion to represent as he wishes and how exactly does it change your life?

Seriously
Jim

What is tasteless is someone that would display that lion and represent to friends and family that it was shot on a "dangerous game hunt". Again, the taxidermy is very nice . . . pity it was wasted on a circus lion.

[As an aside, my guess is if the shooter is a member of AR, he will not step forward and claim that lion as his. Wonder why?]

Well MJines You'll probably really not like me.
But here is a post previously on AR.
My S A Lion ,( in your words circus lion ).
Since the guy is most likely not an AR member or doesn't want to post...I'll step into his shoes....

BTW.... Robert, NICE LION !

My post went like this and I tell it this way to EVERYONE!

I booked a trip to South Africa to collect a White lion. Notice a say Collect not hunt. The top line of my bucket list. I wanted it for my studio and for myself and it's legal to do it. Unethical in some people's opinion? But you know what they say about opinions....They are like As*Hol*s everyone has one. Let my ethics be between me my god.

I was never told by my PH or anyone that this was a wild lion. Was told area size, that he would be released per S A laws and regulations. It took yes, only 3 days. I was happy with the experience. I'm sure now raised lions do have a pissy attitude. You kinda notice that when your tracking and 2 Ph's with double rifles are in front of you and behind the trackers and another 2 Ph's with the their doubles are behind you so close you can feel their breath on your neck the whole time your tracking.

Over 1 million+ game animals are shot under fence in North America a year,exotics,deer, etc. So I had no issue with doing this in Africa. I've hunted fenced plains game and most here have also.

I've road shotgun at midnight in the semi's from the game catchers lots in S A delivering 45"-50'Kudu and 35-40" Gemsbok and most all other captured game to safari operations all over the east cape of S A. I've seen the same game animals shot that came off them trucks before dawn shot the next day by other hunters. Thousands and thousands of trucked animals are "put and take" into a hundred Safari fenced hunting area's every year.

So I wasn't snowed or tricked or told a bunch of bull. I wanted a white lion and went and got one. Ph was happy, I was happy, Outfit where we were was very happy.

Was on over 22,000 acres in west S A fenced and electrified, We drove for miles and hours and cut thru many roads for three days and jumped him each day. Trackers picked up tracks a few times, either not the lion we were looking for or tracks much to old to track from there.
Jumped him a total of 8 times and if he was drugged he moved quite well. Well enough for us to get back in the truck and move onto more road to head him off because he was moving way to fast to stay on foot and find him quickly agian. He was moving thru crap you couldn't see but maybe 10-20 yards in any direction. We finally came up on him on day three in some real thick brush again and he jumped. He went 1/2 mile and we found him from his growling in the thick brush. My PH's said he's getting pissed because we are pushing him a lot. I don't know if that was true, Don't really care if it was or wasn't. All I know is that 3 of the 4 Ph's had their doubles shouldered. At this point I could only see his face . He was lying head to the left and body to my right.I have 2 Ph's with doubles on my left shouldered and pointed directly at him 60 yards away. 2 Ph's to my right, one asked "Can you see him and get the shot?". I stated i can only see his head and his full face, eyes and nose. One PH quietly said "If you have a shot thru the brush, it's thin put it on his nose and slide 18" to the right and you'll be right behind his shoulder.So I did ...BANG. Jumps up like a bat out of hell spins right Runs 40 yards off to my right.... and drops dead,cut the top of both lungs off with the shot. So yep I killed a raised white lion and I knocked off the top line of my bucket list always wanted one. No wild lion, No cattle killer, No lion that wandered off the park, No BS from anyone in South Africa selling a wild lion hunt. A raised to kill lion.
And thanks Roland for the work on the picture. Notice no gun in the picture. It was a collection safari not a hunt. I guess they could have just euthanized him while I was there, but he died just as fast and humane by my hand.

And I enjoyed the walk.

As a hunter I do not pass judgement on anyone legally sport hunting or shooting in any fashion.

I posted this to to show your not quite correct when you call out someone that you have no idea what they say or how they talk about their lion....

Kudos to you for your candor. Do you believe most others describe their experience the same way? Do they refer to their experience as collecting? Or do they use the tried and true, he was a cattle killer, he was a wild lion, he escaped from a local park, he had gone rogue and was aggressive and threatening and needed to be taken out, that he had been released weeks in advance in order to acclimate himself, etc.? I suspect we both know how the story is usually told.

Having an opinion is a bit different than passing judgment. I am not saying hunting canned lions is wrong, unethical, should be prohibited or anything of the sort. I am saying what I said in my first post, "I would be embarrassed to claim that lion . . . sorry but just not my idea of a 'wild' lion." That is my opinion and mine only. I have the same opinion of hunting 225" whitetails in a 300 acre pasture, or elk behind a high fence in South Texas. For those that are comfortable doing that, God bless you. But that does not mean that I am not entitled to an opinion otherwise.

And as for thread crapping, I have said from the outset that the taxidermy work done by the taxidermist that started this thread and posted the taxidermy pictures to highlight his taxidermy practice/work is outstanding.

[And of course this has nothing to do with liking or not liking anyone. Too many on here have a tendency to want to personalize everything. It is just a conversation and sometimes people have different views. I respect your views and am glad you enjoyed your experiencing collecting your white lion.]

Well thank you and I apologize if I had taken your comments the wrong way. I believe any legal form of hunting/shooting should not be bashed or criticize by any other hunter. I hope as you say you feel the same and would stand up for their rights. Even with your opinion against it.


And to answer your first 2 question that lies in the integrity of the man telling the story.

I think the Admiral and I should get together for a beer. I bet we'd agree on politics too. If you're ever in Houston, give me a call.

I would guess for me it comes down to when posting on a thread.If I dont like or think it is for me I just dont say anything.You great white hunters with it was raised so it must be a pet kill me sometimes.So many like to bring things up that happened 5 years ago or more.Yes some may still try and mislead people but others tell it like it is.Yes I let my kid hunt a pen raise lioness.I am guessing after his first shot when she was hit she was charging him so she could get her bellied rubbed.Plus I am sure the teeth and claws would not hurt near as much as those wild lions.

I guess all you great hunters tell the people who ask how that you were side by side with your ph who more then likely found walked you up to your so called wild lion.Then you made the shot and collected your better then everyone elses trophy.Or better yet when you took your lion off of a bait that your ph did for you to have a better chance.

I hate even doing post like this because it is what each anti hunter wants from us.Hunters bad mouthing hunters which equals no good for any of us.By the way we tell everyone the truth about how his lioness is raised to be hunted.

So all you great hunters who do it so well go pat yourself on the back and keep telling yourself how great you are.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I think the Admiral and I should get together for a beer. I bet we'd agree on politics too. If you're ever in Houston, give me a call.

will do - I will be attending DSC and SCI in 2015 as well

quote:

Originally posted by bcap:
I would guess for me it comes down to when posting on a thread.If I dont like or think it is for me I just dont say anything.You great white hunters with it was raised so it must be a pet kill me sometimes.So many like to bring things up that happened 5 years ago or more.Yes some may still try and mislead people but others tell it like it is.Yes I let my kid hunt a pen raise lioness.I am guessing after his first shot when she was hit she was charging him so she could get her bellied rubbed.Plus I am sure the teeth and claws would not hurt near as much as those wild lions.

I guess all you great hunters tell the people who ask how that you were side by side with your ph who more then likely found walked you up to your so called wild lion.Then you made the shot and collected your better then everyone elses trophy.Or better yet when you took your lion off of a bait that your ph did for you to have a better chance.

I hate even doing post like this because it is what each anti hunter wants from us.Hunters bad mouthing hunters which equals no good for any of us.By the way we tell everyone the truth about how his lioness is raised to be hunted.

So all you great hunters who do it so well go pat yourself on the back and keep telling yourself how great you are.

I will try one time to explain what I have already said at least a couple of times above. My initial comment on this thread is what is called an opinion. I have one. You have one. The fact that I have one, does not make mine right. The fact that you have one, does not make yours right. We are both free to appropriately express our respective opinions. (And by appropriately, I mean respectfully. So while I would probably not choose to make my comment on a hunt report started by the hunter, that is not this situation. The thread was started by a taxidermist in the taxidermy forum to highlight the taxidermist's work as a taxidermist, which we all seem to acknowledge is exceptional.) That is the beauty of opinions, we can agree to disagree. I certainly am not suggesting that anyone choosing to take such a lion is unethical, wrong, or an inferior hunter or person. I am suggesting that such a hunt would not be my cup of tea. If it is yours, drink up, you can have my share too.

This whole notion that hunters cannot disagree because it encourages the anti-hunters, sorry but I am not buying that either. We can disagree or have differences of opinion while at the same time fighting aggressively for each person's right to exercise the privilege of hunting in the manner they choose.

AMAZING mount!!! every trophy need one

quote:

Originally posted by The Artistry of Wildlife:

gorgeous lion no matter HOW you collected him!

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
That trophy has more to do with someone's pocketbook....

Let's be honest with ourselves.....the same is basically true of most trophies in one way or another.

Yep! It surely is........


.

Out of idle curiosity , who was the outfitter ? Was it by chance a gentleman named Mostert or something like that?

We viewed his white lions probably 12 years ago. Interesting operation.

I happen to have the same opinion as MikeJ on this issue. Some of you guys who really object to any criticism should make sure you never attempt to sell stuff or become published. I have a beautiful grizzly that is fairly small. If someone was to point out it was small, I couldn't argue. But I shot it on a DIY hunt by myself when I was 26. I was happy with it then and still am.

I think you answer the main question yourself what some of us have a problem with it. You know you took a small grizzly no one has made a dumb comment and told you because they dont think they need to or be disrespectful to you. If someone tells you its small will it mean anything no not at all. It just is if you believe hunters making bad comments about other hunters is good or not. Again you dont need to like the hunt but if it is legal why say something to make it like it was wrong. I know I know you have the right to and it makes some people feel better about themselves. The funny part is then the same guy who made the post about it not being this or that starts a thread about we are our own worse enemy. He is right about that.

quote:

Originally posted by bcap:
I think you answer the main question yourself what some of us have a problem with it. You know you took a small grizzly no one has made a dumb comment and told you because they dont think they need to or be disrespectful to you. If someone tells you its small will it mean anything no not at all. It just is if you believe hunters making bad comments about other hunters is good or not. Again you dont need to like the hunt but if it is legal why say something to make it like it was wrong. I know I know you have the right to and it makes some people feel better about themselves. The funny part is then the same guy who made the post about it not being this or that starts a thread about we are our own worse enemy. He is right about that.

Why does anyone post any pictures of trophies, either in a post or in their avatar...to stroke their ego...to be envied...tell me, why does anyone do it?

Some post pictures because there proud of what they did not to prove there better then anyone else. Also maybe to show other hunters what that got were and with who maybe. You can try and spin stupid and disrespectful comments any way you want but they normally dont help anything. They are what they are just some stupid comment made to disrespect someone else and what they did.Common sense goes a long way if you use it.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I happen to have the same opinion as MikeJ on this issue. Some of you guys who really object to any criticism should make sure you never attempt to sell stuff or become published. I have a beautiful grizzly that is fairly small. If someone was to point out it was small, I couldn't argue. But I shot it on a DIY hunt by myself when I was 26. I was happy with it then and still am.

Have you tried to tell someone it's a 10 footer and you killed it in a charge? Bet not.

MJines assumption by his statement in this thread is that most who kill a Lion in RSA do exactly that. Exaggerate the reality of the hunt and he has a bug up his butt about it.

Perhaps in some way he thinks it diminishes the value of his wild Lion. I don't get it. Maybe I'm seeing it incorrectly.

When I'm at the SCI AK Banquet and introduced to someone who starts reliving the excitement of their RSA Lion hunt I don't play the but my Zambian Lion was really wild oneupsmanship card. I let the guy enjoy himself.

Now if it was a good friend like Brett, I would bust his balls.

I have some folks on here I would consider friends but they probably aren't at ball busting level yet.

You are kind Frostbit. Personally, I have a lot more respect for Retreever, who came home empty handed after trying for a wild lion, than anyone who shot one in a fenced area. But that is me.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
You are kind Frostbit.

Not really. I used to be very judgmental about the "Pilgrims" that flew into Dillingham from the lower 48 when I lived there, especially the guided ones. When I saw them at the airport with a Caribou rack and a 70 pound meat box with their big smiles I thought that they didn't "earn it". Somebody else cut it up and packed it for them and they really only wanted the rack anyway they will probably not even eat the whole 70 pounds they took back. It will be a novelty for them to show off to their friends in Texas or wherever, "Hey we are having Caribou tonight, let tell you how hard this hunt was in the Alaskan Bush" I had a vision of them pampered in camp, cooked for, meat carried for them, and not even taking it all home.

I was foolish and judgmental because I was so much better running my open skiff up Andrew's Creek and suffering while packing meat over what essentially was a wet sponge over an endless lake of flooded tundra.

It's not for us as hunters to judge someone else based on our definitions of what a hunt is as long as that hunt is legal.

That Caribou meat that didn't get on the plane with the "Pilgrims" was donated to the food bank (at least that's what we are told). The guides made a living, some money trickled into the community, and some locals got food.

Like I said, I was foolish and judgmental. I've grown up a bit.

Cheers
Jim