quote:

Perhaps in some way he thinks it diminishes the value of his wild Lion. I don't get it. Maybe I'm seeing it incorrectly.

You gotta wonder.....

If you can't/won't afford $75,000 you don't deserve a lion?????


.

azwriter some respect is not worth getting from some people. Those perfect people can think there better all they want but in the end we all know there not.

Bcap:

I am having a really hard time understanding what you are trying to say.

Frostbit:

Well, I have shot 13 DIY caribou. Never did a guided one, although I have done guided hunts in AK. I guess I don't think in the terms you do; a DIY is certainly harder than a guided hunt, but I never looked down on those who hired a guide.

I shot a pretty nice elk in the Selway in September on a guided hunt, my third one in that area. I had a great time, but it was clearly easier than the five bulls I shot in Colorado on DIY hunts but not as easy as the AZ hunt I had in Sep 2012 when I turned down several 6x6 or bigger bulls every day.

Maybe I am different, but the degree of difficulty has a lot to do with how I judge hunts. I have no interest in a lion that is 100 percent successful; that isn't hunting, it is just shooting. And yes, we all have the right to judge any way we want - it happens in life every day, whether it is hunting, sports, work, or relationships.

A lot of folks on this site think Mellon was one of the greatest hunters ever. Well, I personally don't think he is even close - he never worked for any of the money he spent on hunting. The folks I most admire in the hunting world are those that have a wide breadth of hunting that they paid for themselves. Am I judging? Of course.

On Saturday I ran across a guy bow hunting for deer. I was coyote hunting and noticed him moving above me on a ridge. I waved, but not sure he saw me, so I walked on over to him and we chatted for nearly an hour. I have to tell you, anyone who can bowhunt in AZ desert on a DIY hunt is a better hunter than I am as well as most guys like you and me who go to Africa.

To me, the issue of fair chase is a big one. Lion hunts in enclosed areas are not fair chase. They might be legal, but they are not fair chase.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Perhaps in some way he thinks it diminishes the value of his wild Lion. I don't get it. Maybe I'm seeing it incorrectly.

You gotta wonder.....

If you can't/won't afford $75,000 you don't deserve a lion?????


.

Well, along the lines you are thinking, you can shoot a penned up elk that scores over 400 for a lot less money than you will spend on fair chase hunts.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I guess I don't think in the terms you do; a DIY is certainly harder than a guided hunt . . .

CAUTION: Stating or acknowledging reality is being judgmental, makes you an elitist and has been determined to cause cancer in California.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:


Frostbit:

Well, I have shot 13 DIY caribou. Never did a guided one, although I have done guided hunts in AK. I guess I don't think in the terms you do; a DIY is certainly harder than a guided hunt, but I never looked down on those who hired a guide.

I shot a pretty nice elk in the Selway in September on a guided hunt, my third one in that area. I had a great time, but it was clearly easier than the five bulls I shot in Colorado on DIY hunts but not as easy as the AZ hunt I had in Sep 2012 when I turned down several 6x6 or bigger bulls every day.

Maybe I am different, but the degree of difficulty has a lot to do with how I judge hunts. I have no interest in a lion that is 100 percent successful; that isn't hunting, it is just shooting. And yes, we all have the right to judge any way we want - it happens in life every day, whether it is hunting, sports, work, or relationships.

A lot of folks on this site think Mellon was one of the greatest hunters ever. Well, I personally don't think he is even close - he never worked for any of the money he spent on hunting. The folks I most admire in the hunting world are those that have a wide breadth of hunting that they paid for themselves. Am I judging? Of course.

On Saturday I ran across a guy bow hunting for deer. I was coyote hunting and noticed him moving above me on a ridge. I waved, but not sure he saw me, so I walked on over to him and we chatted for nearly an hour. I have to tell you, anyone who can bowhunt in AZ on a DIY hunt is a better hunter than I am as well as most guys like you and me who go to Africa.

To me, the issue of fair chase is a big one. Lion hunts in enclosed areas are not fair chase. They might be legal, but they are not fair chase.

Apparently we agree completely. As I said, my feeling about people from outside hunting guided changed over time, especially after I did my first guided hunt in Africa.

As to the bolded print I couldn't agree more, which is why I would never hunt a Lion in RSA.

That said, it is legal and I will not rain on someone's parade about that or any other legal hunt.

Cheers
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
You are kind Frostbit.

Not really. I used to be very judgmental about the "Pilgrims" that flew into Dillingham from the lower 48 when I lived there, especially the guided ones. When I saw them at the airport with a Caribou rack and a 70 pound meat box with their big smiles I thought that they didn't "earn it". Somebody else cut it up and packed it for them and they really only wanted the rack anyway they will probably not even eat the whole 70 pounds they took back. It will be a novelty for them to show off to their friends in Texas or wherever, "Hey we are having Caribou tonight, let tell you how hard this hunt was in the Alaskan Bush" I had a vision of them pampered in camp, cooked for, meat carried for them, and not even taking it all home.

I was foolish and judgmental because I was so much better running my open skiff up Andrew's Creek and suffering while packing meat over what essentially was a wet sponge over an endless lake of flooded tundra.

It's not for us as hunters to judge someone else based on our definitions of what a hunt is as long as that hunt is legal.

That Caribou meat that didn't get on the plane with the "Pilgrims" was donated to the food bank (at least that's what we are told). The guides made a living, some money trickled into the community, and some locals got food.

Like I said, I was foolish and judgmental. I've grown up a bit.

Cheers
Jim

Jim,

I wish my Alaskan hunt was a nice guided package

As I hunted and killed a wild lion in Burkina Faso do I get to look down on all other wild lion hunters who killed their lion over bait?

Hunting lions in RSA in not my thing and I have an even less desire to kill a wild lion.

I am a meat hunter going forward and I am done with taxidermy. However, I have no issues with other peoples lion trophies be they wild or RSA lions.

Side note of all the hunting I have done - the greatest demand for game meat was for the lion. Hundreds of people line up for lion meat. Everything was used. Ate some (a bite) myself - terrible.

Mike

CAUTION: Stating or acknowledging reality is being judgmental, makes you an elitist and has been determined to cause cancer in California.[/QUOTE]

Being stupid and not using common sense when posting is known to cause cancer world wide.

Again go look at your words on the other post you started about being are own enemies. I will never hunt a elephant so why should I care about that.Oh that right I am a hunter so I should care and it would help us all.Your stupid comments on lion hunting hurts some and helps no one.Again you dont need to like it just watch what you say about it.

I think you have a reading comprehension issue. Go back and s-l-o-w-l-y re-read and understand the posts I made above. I have clearly . . . for most readers . . . said that I support the hunter's right to hunt take the lion they chose to take on a captive bred lion hunt in South Africa. (Again, it is worth noting that this thread was not a hunt report by the hunter and was not even started by the hunter.) What I have also said is that such a hunt is not for me. I have friends, who are hunters, that have no desire or interest to hunt elephant. To them there are aspects about elephant that would make such a hunt distasteful to them. I understand that and respect that, even though we disagree. For some asinine reason some folks on this website have concluded that unless we all either agree with one another or sit by as deaf mutes if we disagree we are being unconstructive, argumentative and disagreeable. Why some believe that you have to check your opinions and beliefs at the door and that threads need to be one big kumbaya session is beyond me. (And once again a reminder . . . I am not raining on the hunter's parade . . . this was not a hunt report filed by the hunter or some other thread started by the hunter where the comments could be viewed as being disrespectful to the hunter.)

Boy we really are our own worst enemies.

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:
Boy we really are our own worst enemies.

"we" are't but some sure are............ Hard to figure for sure.


.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Out of idle curiosity , who was the outfitter ? Was it by chance a gentleman named Mostert or something like that?

We viewed his white lions probably 12 years ago. Interesting operation.

Larry,

I hunt at Mossies every year. Heading back there in three weeks, and indeed his lions are stunning.

K

My outsiders perspective. I know exactly squat about lions. My assumption, had not Mr. Jines pointed it out, would have been that this was a wild lion. No, the OP didn't say it was wild, but he also didn't say it wasn't. To me, this is not altogether different from saying that it is wild. If I walked into the trophy room where it resides, would the "hunter" offer up the truth, or let me come to my own conclusions? Furthermore, I find it insulting for someone who "hunts" in this manner to lump themselves into the same group as a free range hunter.

Pointblank,
Don't allow yourself to be derailed by the idiots. All that was posted was a few pics of a mounted lion on a taxidermy forum. It could have been hit by a car as far as anyone knew, regardless the point was to post pics of a mounted lion, period. One of the local morons whose penis measurement and IQ are obviously similar, decided to derail the thread and take up the cause of captive bred lion hunting vs. wild lion hunting. Then when it was shown what an idiot he was, he spent 2 pages trying to argue logic into his first idiotic post. And that is it in a "nutshell".

I have no dog in this fight, but I've often wondered just how much more dangerous sniping a lion off a bait at 80 yards is than tracking one on foot when he knows you're after him. I presume, like leopard, a wounded lion is way more dangerous than one with his head buried in half a rotting buffalo.

As to the pocketbook issue, from what I've seen, it takes way more cash to take a "wild" lion than a raised one.

All that said - really nice taxidermy.

Looks like a great cat, nice job.