I had hoped moving from Colorado to Idaho might have brought some relief from the wannabe sniper crowd. Just had a deer stalk interrupted by 6 rounds fired from a public road at least 600 yards away. And of course the morons didn't even bother to check to see if they hit anything. I'm doing that for them now. It's a free country and if you think shooting animals at 600 yards has anything to do with hunting then continue. Just know I'm not the only one that thinks your a disgrace.

Lol... Please then, remove the scope from your rifle.... You sound like the self righteous fly fisherman who despises the bait fisherman...

You are hunting public land. Would you expect anything different? Besides, you are 600 yards from the road. Take a hike and get away from them.

BTW, I am not a long range shooter and like to fly fish!

quote:

Originally posted by DC Roxby:
I had hoped moving from Colorado to Idaho might have brought some relief from the wannabe sniper crowd. Just had a deer stalk interrupted by 6 rounds fired from a public road at least 600 yards away. And of course the morons didn't even bother to check to see if they hit anything. I'm doing that for them now. It's a free country and if you think shooting animals at 600 yards has anything to do with hunting then continue. Just know I'm not the only one that thinks your a disgrace.

I ranged those deer at 587.5 yards before I shot

It was 3 shots from me and my gods gift to LR killin 7RM not 6......my buddy took the other three shots with his 30-30

Put your orange on!!

maybe it's because i grew up and live on the east coast, but to me hunting is about getting close to the game.

I know once you go west it's a different ball game but still takes some of the fun out of the hunt if you just park the truck, let some lead fly and then keep on going because you didn't drop something on the spot

I'm with DC on this. Long range sniping has nothing to do with hunting. I may be a self-righteous prick but I can spot a slob hunter from over 600 yards away.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim629:
maybe it's because i grew up and live on the east coast, but to me hunting is about getting close to the game.

I know once you go west it's a different ball game but still takes some of the fun out of the hunt if you just park the truck, let some lead fly and then keep on going because you didn't drop something on the spot

I don't call that hunting, sniping is a better description.

Grizz

As many might be able to see my above post is in humor


However......long range shooting in some cases is required out west.

Some will undoubtedly want to argue with this but I won't argue it after being there.

Unless you have layed eyes on the very steep, rocky and open mountain areas that my friends and I hunt you "get closer" guys just won't understand.

Im not talking 600 yards but 300 to 400 yard shots are more common in the areas we hunt than 100

Now Missouri.....that is a different story.....sub 100

BTW.....get off the road or you no doubt will have issues with hunters shooting from the road.

I will refrain from calling a road hunter a slob as I will refrain from calling an elitist know it all a prick or an asshole

I wish your thread title had been less venomous and more to the point I believe you want to make.

I don't care for "long range sport hunting" primarily because it is not sport. Rather it is target shooting at live targets. I hunt with muzzleloaders and Shiloh Sharps 1863 rifles. All have adjustable aperture sights. Several things descend from these decisions.

1. My effective range and the effective range of rifle-bullet-sights combination closely approach 100 percent overlap.

2. The game has a reasonable opportunity to detect me - something pretty much impossible at long range.

3. Every animal I take becomes a trophy.

4. There is substantially greater "rush" when one must get close to have a reasonable shot opportunity.

5. Were taking the animal essential for your welfare - that is, business rather than sport - any method is acceptable any time. Since, by inferred definition, sport hunting is not essential for your welfare, it reduces the enjoyment of the hunt.
***
My biggest rush occurred when hunting with a bicentennial stainless steel Ruger Blackhawk 357 Magnum. My father helped me make grips for it from dental acrylic he used for creating dentures. It could be cocked and fired only two handed and was the steadiest most secure hunting grip for handguns I've ever used - by a huge margin. I shot a nice whitetail buck at three yards as he was ambling by and munching en route. THIS was exciting! . . . And yes, the grips were pink.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

This topic seems to surface on all gun based forums.

If the anti long range shooters were for real then they would only have open sights on their rifles. In addition no long range flat shooters like 270, 7mm and 300 Magnums.

The only difference with the "long range shooter" is he simply takes his gun gear to a higher level.

The anti long range shooters often like to see themselves as some sort of elite group.

I don't know about America but in Australia they are a fucking pain in the arse when it comes to fighting gun laws.

When you anti long range shooters tell me you have sold off your bolt action rifle with expensive variable scope and have gone to an open sighted low velocity calibre, then I will listen.

Its easier to find shooters who can keep all their shots on a 500 yard (for instance)kill zone from their chosen position than it is to find a shooter that can keep all their shots on a dinner plate at 100 shooting offhand. Add in possible intervening brush and its amazing that some of these short range ethics police ever hit anything.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael McGuire:

The anti long range shooters often like to see themselves as some sort of elite group.

I don't know about America but in Australia they are a fucking pain in the arse when it comes to fighting gun laws.

We have a name for them. Fudds.

I think one might find that the slob hunters that lob the lead at long range are just the "short range" hunters who get buck fever and take a long shot that they lack the skill for. As has been said, when all the hunting snobs ditch their scopes for iron sights, or peep sights, and take up the 30/30 and 45/70, then we can continue this discussion. There is no definitive line, from where a short range shooter becomes a long range shooter. Is it 200 yards? How about 150 yards? What about 279.5 yards?

I hear what Roxy is saying and respect his view. Long Range shooting requires lots of practice and some people don't put the time and effort in to become competent. Not looking for the animal is what upsets me. How many times have you shot at something and hit it and it does not look injured only to find blood or a dead animal some ways away. No excuse for not looking !

I think it's a huge mistake to lump real bonafide "long range shooters" into the crowd that just upset your deer stalk.
Anyone worth their salt that takes a long shot isn't going to take 6 of them.
You were just introduced to slob hunters that were just as likely to miss at 50 yards as they were at 600 yards.
Rant all you want about "long range shooters" but you are lumping the wrong people into your bitching post.

quote:

Just had a deer stalk interrupted by 6 rounds fired

Sounds like another suppressor advocate in the making. Contact your reps in D.C.

Otherwise, just stalk another kilometer or two farther from the road and you shouldn't have to worry about the disruption, those long range a$$holes usually run out of elevation after 1200m.

On my public draw elk hunt last October you should've heard the hills alive with gunfire opening morning. It would have been nicer with a few hundred wannabe snipers with suppressors. At least it wouldn't spook my elk.

I get a laugh out of the guys who go to the range, shoot three shots, and claim they are ready to hunt. Those are the guys who go into the woods and give EVERYONE a bad name. Whether the animal is 50 yards away, or 200 yards, or even 600 yards, they can't hit the broad side of a barn.

quote:

Originally posted by streetglideok:
I get a laugh out of the guys who go to the range, shoot three shots, and claim they are ready to hunt. Those are the guys who go into the woods and give EVERYONE a bad name. Whether the animal is 50 yards away, or 200 yards, or even 600 yards, they can't hit the broad side of a barn.

With some of my rifles I take them to my range and shoot 1 shot and am ready to go hunting. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

I have always thought that long range "hunting" is an oxymoron.

Long range shooting is a very dedicated pursuit that takes some effort to master.

Traditional bowhunting is also a very dedicated pursuit.

Opposite ends of the spectrum.

I have hunted out west my whole life and I can count one hand the number of times I have filled a tag past 300 yards.

I do not have enough fingers and toes to count all the animals I have killed under 50 yards.

He "assumes" they were hunting just because he was. They could have been just sighting in, hence six shots. Now he is looking for the target rock. Funny.

Hunting has nothing to do with range.

But, if you do fire at an animal, at any range, you better go have a look if you have hit it.

The original post states that no one came to look, which is a disgrace, no matter what.

Wanton waste = unacceptable disgrace.

Long-range hunting = their choice and not terribly common practice.

Everyone is offended by something on a daily basis these days. Now hunters are going to be offended by the few guys that hunt at long-range? Are the sheep hunters unethical that routinely take 400+ yd shots?

Very slippery slope here....and if the OP thinks 400 yds. is long-range he is misguided.

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:

quote:

Originally posted by streetglideok:
I get a laugh out of the guys who go to the range, shoot three shots, and claim they are ready to hunt. Those are the guys who go into the woods and give EVERYONE a bad name. Whether the animal is 50 yards away, or 200 yards, or even 600 yards, they can't hit the broad side of a barn.

With some of my rifles I take them to my range and shoot 1 shot and am ready to go hunting. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

That's not practicing, that's putting a hole in a target. It takes practice to maintain proficiency. One shot does not accomplish this.

If I can`t hit it with my spear it is too far away!!

quote:

One shot does not accomplish this.

Strange, I need to go tell a bunch of critters they aren't really dead.

Some of us have spent our lives hunting open country here out west( Washington, Idaho, Oregon etc). We know are rifles and loads well and their and our limits.

500 yards with a good rest, is a chip shot. It's just how it is. Lots of glassing, a consistently accurate rifle and load combo along with good repeatable glass when it comes to turret adjustments.

I'll take my wildcat AR's out to 600.

Waiting for some Muleys to get the party started.




.338 Edge/ 30" Benchmark barrel.

Who are any of us to decide what is "real" hunting and what is not? I think the true slob is the one who dusts off his deer rifle the night before opening day, assuming his setup is good to go.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Who are any of us to decide what is "real" hunting and what is not? I think the true slob is the one who dusts off his deer rifle the night before opening day, assuming his setup is good to go.

I would bet that any of my rifles could be "dusted off" the night before and be more than deadly

Is it ethical to shoot at an animal - ie., beyond ~500 yds - when you know you could have stalked closer and increased the odds of a clean kill?

Just asking.

quote:

I would bet that any of my rifles could be "dusted off" the night before and be more than deadly

I am pretty sure that I fit in that same boat.

quote:

Is it ethical to shoot at an animal - ie., beyond ~500 yds - when you know you could have stalked closer and increased the odds of a clean kill?

For someone that does notb have the experience shooting at such ranges, no it is not ethical.

Is it Ethical for someone with no real experience stalking big game to try and get closer and end up taking a hurried shot, possibly an off hand shot they have no experience with making, and wound and lose animal, because they also have little or no experience at tracking wounded game?

Every time ethics is brought into these discussions, all it demonstrates is why hunters as a group will never be able to present reasonable/legitimate discussion to keep hunting going.

We have Legal Methods and Personal Ethics. If YOUR personal ethics keep you from hunting with a certain method, that is your Personal choice, no one is forcing to do something you believe is wrong. It might make things a tad smoother if everybody else realized that.

You nor I have to agree with another persons choices, but that means they do not have to agree with ours.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Who are any of us to decide what is "real" hunting and what is not? I think the true slob is the one who dusts off his deer rifle the night before opening day, assuming his setup is good to go.

The rifles I use for my hunts in Africa follow a very simple routine.

As soon as I am back, I take them apart and clean them, then put them together.

They are unfired until the next hunt, when I load my new ammo for them, I fire a couple of shots in each, just checking the zero.

Then off to Africa.

Worked for years.

There are hunters who are capable of killing at animal almost at any range they can see it.

And there are those who could not hit a barn door at 50 yards.

^ + 1

My friend, who lives in NM, shot a new world's record at 600yds that measures 2.3" +/- for ten shots.

It's not the distance, it's the training.

You may have to make some attitude adjustments moving from CO to Idaho. Things are different here.

I did coming from Southern Illinois here in 1978.

I thought my point was clear. There are many who don't take care of their gear, don't practice, etc., who break out their rifle without even checking zero. Yes, there are those of us (myself included) who hunt year round, but many only hunt deer once a year.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Who are any of us to decide what is "real" hunting and what is not? I think the true slob is the one who dusts off his deer rifle the night before opening day, assuming his setup is good to go.

The rifles I use for my hunts in Africa follow a very simple routine.

As soon as I am back, I take them apart and clean them, then put them together.

They are unfired until the next hunt, when I load my new ammo for them, I fire a couple of shots in each, just checking the zero.

Then off to Africa.

Worked for years.

There are hunters who are capable of killing at animal almost at any range they can see it.

And there are those who could not hit a barn door at 50 yards.

The barn door at 50 yards is an amazingly accurate assessment. I have witnessed many guys showing up on their African hunt. They have spent months contemplating their hunt, have spent thousands of dollars at Cabela's, and organized everything down to the last minute, but apparently spent less that 20 minutes at the range. Miss after gut shot after miss and you begin to wonder what their motivation was to come to Africa.

I would say that the term "long range" is quite subjective based upon the capabilities of the shooter...

It's relatively easy nowadays to find gear that will make a guy long range capable. IMO, the rub comes with being able to dope wind, which nobody can do on a consistent basis. Anyone who has used wind flags at 100 yd intervals out to 500+ yds will know the wind doesn't necessarily behave the same at every distance, precisely why BR champs like Tubb learn how to interpret wind by using them. It's easy when there is no wind, as my 4 CDS equipped Leupy's will do it all day long. I have an acquaintance up in the TX Panhandle who trains snipers the world over. I have had the luxury of watching them shoot, when the wind is present, first shot hits are not a guarantee.

I've guided over 130 hunters the past 10 yrs or so, and most of them have no business shooting past 250 yards. Seems like people nowadays watch these idiots on their TV shows launching bullets at game at long distance, buy their gear, and think they're "good to go".

quote:

Seems like people nowadays watch these idiots on their TV shows launching bullets at game at long distance, buy their gear, and think they're "good to go".

Add to that what people read on various websites and the problem is just multiplied.

I have seen that happen way too often, and not just with the rifles and scopes, but ALL the gadgets. It seems that hunters today love having all the latest gadgets, whether they actually know how to use them or even if they need them.

Always been idiots, always will be.

Next.