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I have to admit that Larry's side of the story does make him sound like he was innocent. The following(if true) was what really hurt him:
I still really have a hard time believing that a successful bussiness man would move out of state without understanding the financial ramifications, then move back in less than a year. I'm surprised that he is not trying to appeal. Regardless, it is really sad that he didn't just continue to live in Utah. It seems that all of this would have been avoided. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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The Mormons were out to get him. The Mormons were the cause of his downfall. The whole jury was full of Mormons. He was the only non-Mormon living in the entire county. Got to love the bigots of the world. If anyone on this site thinks it is easy to obtain a conviction of a wildlife offense in the rural reaches of State of Utah then you have no idea. He was investigated- all investigations are strong-handed when viewed by the person being investigated. He was brought before a jury and found to have committed whatever crime he was charged with. Honest mistake? I don't know. But a mistake nonetheless. No one here knows the full story, unless they were present in the court room. One thing is certain, he violated some rule or regulation, was investigated, charged, tried, and convicted. If he felt so wronged by the local court, Utah has a supreme court he could appeal to. If it were me, and I felt railroaded by the local jury, then I would appeal. .. | |||
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But if you’re a local in Utah and your known you can smoke a ram on the wrong unit and it all goes away.... http://www.monstermuleys.info/...DCForumID8/5989.html https://wildlife.utah.gov/inde...view=article&id=1933 Regardless of what you think of Larry’s intentions it does seem that the state of Utah treats some differently than it does others..... whatever happened to “ingnorance of the law is no excuse”. Only if you’re a non resident I guess... | |||
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Hmmmmmm! But of course I knew this already! Thanks for posting Drummond. | |||
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I’m not familiar with the case. Seems like they used a .500 nitro to kill a fly, but... Logically, if he moved out of the state before he did the hunt, he isn’t a resident. He chose to give up Utah residency but kept the resident tag anyhow. He may have drawn it legally, but if he had moved out after drawing but before the hunt, he isn’t a resident, is he? He certainly knew the law as evidenced by his statements. It is too bad, but the guy needed to apply a little logic here. | |||
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Drum- No, if you are a non-resident from Texas who purchases a governor's permit for lots of coin and your guide asks a state employee who has nothing to do with the unit if they can hunt there.... Money gets perks. For sure this was more egregious on appearance than Larry's issue. And probably why they prosecuted his all they could. Still beckons to why he doesn't appeal the judgement. Especially if he is giving up hunting most of the US (and many countries who do not allow alien felons to hunt) for 10 years. Tthe person who turned him in does not automatically get a permit. If Larry appealed, it would stop the process of him receiving a permit if that is the compensation given. Many times the state pays money, which upsets the person who'd rather have a tag. One last bit of info. The person who is alledged to have turned this into the state was the president of UFNAWS until very recently. .. | |||
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The Utah DWR and SFW are both as crooked as a dogs hind leg and are tied together at the hip. When the DWR voted for SFW to keep the Expo tags over the much better bid that the RMEF put in a year ago it was very obvious who runs the state DWR with the SFW controlling the Board and unfortunately the foul smell goes all the way to the Governor's Office!!! WLO sucks and should have been prosecuted along with the gal from Texas that they guided when they poached that ram off the Nebo unit. | |||
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My migraine is coming back | |||
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In the final analysis, WLO got $6,500 off that hunt. It would take a total idiot to risk jail time and being put out of business over $6,500. | |||
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Except that Will and Robyn Waldrip purchase multiple tags in UT each year and hire WLO to guide them. If you are looking for a risk benefit calculation you should properly be taking a net present value of the ~$20-30k annually the Waldrip's pay WLO for some period of time. That number makes the risk considerably more justified. | |||
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Still not worth it in my book. | |||
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They knew there was a rule about where they could hunt. Rather than call the biologist for the unit or the region office located 5 miles from the unit, they called a regional office a hundred miles away and spoke with a person who has no knowledge of the unit or its closure. Once they got the go ahead from that state employee they went and killed the ram. The ram had been scouted. The ram had been followed. They had a plan to hunt that ram. They are professionals. They knew there were rules pertaining to that permit. That ram was taken illegally. The prosecutor decided not to press charges. The Utah DWR took a beating over it. As they should have. | |||
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Yep, every word of that is true and for the other member in Utah that said he's getting a migraine all he would have to do is move to another state and he would be instantly cured, LOL! WLO has had a shitty reputation ever since that photo came out of the blindfolded big buck they scored while it was drugged in a high fence they hunt and then it was let loose for a high roller to shoot and they posted about it being a new world record! That told most people that saw that what kind of integrity WL has and it's NONE!!! | |||
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That's because you have integrity and Wade Lemon doesn't know that word! | |||
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Hey Top Gun: I may need to move out if that will work- I doubt it. Not to change the subject, but I’m going to your favorite show tomorrow. Yeah, I’m going to try to win one of the tags that were stolen from us. However, there are several that I can’t apply for because they only allow non residents to apply for and steal them. Oh well, at least I’ll get some cheap entertainment for the $30 or do bucks that will get me through the door. Wish me luck on beating the 5,000-1 odds! | |||
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Ah yes, It's Expo tag time in SLC, LOL! Good luck man! | |||
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Don't count yourself out on the tags. I was in NV last year. A friend of a client drew tags for BOTH sheep in the same year. The odds against that are astronomical. | |||
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So this statement here brings up the very point I have discussed with numerous people regarding this issue, and other incidents that could be similar. For the sake of argument I'll use myself as an example of my question to you all, and perhaps part of Larry's thinking too? I live in Colorado, where I obviously have legal / resident status. That resident status obviously applies to me as a "resident hunter" in Colorado as well. Ok, so in a week or two I'll apply for my Colorado resident Bighorn sheep tag (preying I draw of course) with an application deadline of April 3rd. Draw results will be posted roughly May 10th, and for the sake of this argument lets say I got lucky and drew my tag! An archery sheep hunt slated for Aug. 25 - Sept. 20! Now, lets say on June 20th I just decide I am up and moving to Arizona! Its a free country and I can do that any day I please. So, I pack up my stuff and by July 1st I am in my new home in Payson, AZ. Now when I arrive in Arizona I immediately get an AZ driver license, utilities, new bank account for GHR, register my vehicle, etc. All the things that would go along with making me a legal AZ resident - in fact that's what you are suppose to do! But "with one exception". I cannot apply for or purchase a resident hunting / fishing license of any kind until I have lived there for 6 continuous months ( that would be January 1, 2019) that's the law. Back to Colorado! I still have a "resident" sheep tag that I applied for and drew legitimately as a resident of CO when I was living there. I no longer live there, nor do I claim residency when the sheep season arrives. But according to Arizona law - I don't yet qualify as a "resident" there either as it pertains to hunting status. If I want to purchase an OTC deer archery license in AZ - I must do so as a non-resident until 2019!! This then begs the $64,000 question!! Aren't I entitled to be a "resident" somewhere as it pertains to hunting licenses at all times? I didn't move out of the country. Just because I move to AZ 6 weeks after I draw my CO resident sheep tag - should not IMO disqualify me from maintaining my CO resident hunting status - until I am legally permitted to obtain resident hunting status in my new state of AZ. I might have an AZ driver license now, and "live" as a resident of AZ - but according to AZ Game & Fish I am still restricted to "Non-Resident" hunting status until the end of the year! Use all the scenarios like this you want - its a "free" country! If I want to move to Arizona, then to Utah, and then back to Colorado in 12 months time - I am "free" to do so. None of which should legally negate my ability to constantly qualify for "resident" hunting status in one particular state - based on meeting legal requirements. I personally believe this is a huge factor in Larry's case - that hasn't really been touched on by anyone. In fact, Larry aside - this could be the case with anyone! Maybe a new job, or family makes a person need to move - and then faces this exact issue. We as free Americans can move anywhere / anytime we see fit. Who is the state of UT to "charge" a man based on what they believe his "intent" was? His intent was what he says it is, not for someone else to try and decide / judge him on! I find it appalling that the state put a man on trial for something that is in no way "provable". His "intent" is not a hard / tangible fact, to anyone outside of he and his wife - its simply an "opinion" on why the state "thinks" he chose to move where and when he did! It leaves an especially bad taste IMO, when the state of UT allows the sheep incident from the following year to slide - yet hammers a different individual for a "similar" incident. In both cases those involved "believed" they were doing right, and followed the rules to the best of their understanding - I do honestly believe that. Yet one gets charged / convicted as a felon for "poaching" a sheep, and the others walk Scott Free - for killing a ram in an area that was NOT open to their sheep hunt. If law is to be applied, it should be applied consistently to all, or not at all. Just my opinion guys.... | |||
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Aaron, That exact scenario happened to me. I was a resident of New Mexico and drew an oryx tag. After drawing the tag and before the hunt dates, I moved to Oklahoma. I immediately contacted the New Mexico Game and Fish to tell them. They said that since I was a legal resident when I applied and drew the tag, I was fine. It did not matter where I lived on the date of the actual hunt. I suspect had Larry communicated this to the authorities when it all transpired, he would not be in the mess he is now. At the end of the day, the intent of the law is one thing and the application of the law may be something else. I suspect there is far more to this story than is told at this point, but I feel Larry may have been blind sided by this. On another issue - special auction tags.... I get it - they funnel a lot of money to a good cause. But do so at the expense of the hunters that are applying for the tags. I hate to see governors tags auction or given out as political favors. | |||
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You're beating a dead horse Larry! You, I, and everyone else, including 100% of the jury members, knew what he did and why he did it and he was found guilty. Each state has it's requirements that aren't that difficult to follow or figure out and if there are any questions as to how they will handle a case all a person has to do is ask the appropriate authorities. The WLO debacle was just that and they knew damn well they couldn't hunt the Nebo unit, called some dude 100 miles from there that didn't know shit, and got away with poaching that ram. The UT DWR was crooked as a dog's hind leg on that one and they should have had the people charged and prosecuted in court. I noticed that you quickly left this thread and started your bull thread when I mentioned your ridiculous comment about all G&F Departments and when I mentioned why you did it because of your previous multi state violations you immediately left the thread! Care to discuss them out in a public Forum? | |||
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Do you mean Aaron? | |||
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Sir, I honestly have no idea who you are - nor did I leave for any specific reason. I too have work to do, and come back when I can. My scenario above was not specifically directed to Larry's case - rather an overall assessment of what could happen to any of us. I think as you obviously seem to agree however, that the state of UT seems to have handled similar situations - with 2 different people - in two totally different ways. That to me seems suspect of the law? The law should be applied to all the same....it wasn't in UT. Dogcat gave his example....but I suspect it could be handled differently in UT because of their "rule" about not moving there for the sole purpose of acquiring a benefit of a resident. A rule I have never seen before, and a rule that I don't think any other state has that I am aware of? My personal situation here in Colorado that you seem to want to drudge up for some reason, has been discussed here on AR - by me, at length. It was now 23 years ago, it was an honest mistake made by me at the age of 22 / guiding in a new area I had not been to before and with permission from a landowner who mistakenly told me the wrong boundaries of his property. The hunter with me at the time, confirmed that to the Game and Fish, as he stood next to me while the landowner and I discussed property boundaries. The hunter had his big whitetail confiscated, but continued to hunt with me on several more occasions as he knew full well the facts, and knew we believed we were in the correct spot! Unfortunately back then OnxMaps and such things did not exist, so it was more difficult to be assured of exact property boundaries - etc. Technically I was wrong - but not intentionally, and I paid my debt to society for it (not according to you apparently). I was ticketed in Kansas in 1993 for guiding without a hunting license!?!?!? A law I had never seen / heard of before? It was the first year Kansas allowed non-residents to hunt and / or guide in the state for big game, period! Summer of 1993 I drove to Kansas, took my guide's test - and passed. I was given a full guide's license which I paid for, and based on their requirements to be a guide - I assumed I was in full compliance? However, once in the field - we were stopped by a game warden and I told him I was the guide. He asked for my guide's license which I gave to him, and then he asked for my "hunting" license? I responded, "why" I am not hunting, nor am I carrying a gun? Why would I have a hunting license? He said oh....you have to have a hunting license too ($65 hunting license) in addition to your guide's license. I explained I was not told that when I took my guide's test / paid for the guide's license and assumed I had satisfied all legal requirements? According to him and the Kansas statues - anyone aiding / assisting another hunter in the field must also have a valid hunting license. He even gave me the silliest scenario I have ever heard! If I was legally hunting deer in Kansas, shot a buck and then called my neighbor because I needed his help to load the 250lb buck in my truck, the neighbor is required by law to have a "hunting license" to aid me with my deer in the field....are you kidding me?? No doubt, I was in violation as per the letter of the law - but some laws are simply irrelevant and silly in nature! This is nothing more than a way to get additional revenue, period!!! But sometimes "intent" is the point, its the very point of what should constitute a law enforcement officer's willingness to ticket someone based on their actions. And in many cases intent is part of the requirement to be found guilty of a crime. Does anyone believe for a second that if I had known about the need to also have a "hunting" license (even though I'm not hunting) I wouldn't have done so for $65.00? Come on!! The fact also remains, and unless you are in this industry (which maybe you are - you seem to like to stay anonymous, which is always makes it easier to bag on people from the privacy and security of your computer key board) you'll never understand the level to which game / fish law enforcement specifically targets guides, outfitters and "known" hunters. They make it their mission to hammer these folks, when in many cases the "average Joe" would get a pass. I know this for a fact, and I have several examples of such just in the past couple of years here in CO and NM, where in all of these cases the person was exonerated of all charges, and in the case of the NM Game & Fish just last December - they were required to reinstate 260 guides / outfitters who had been revoked over a 2 yr period by over-zealous law enforcement, trying to enforce / ticket these guys for non-factual offenses. Look it up, that's a fact. The NM wildlife commission and NM attorney general forced the NM game / fish department in December of 2017 to re-instate all 260 revocations over that 2 yr period for gross abuse of power!!! Frankly, the fact is I owe you no explanation at all. Fact is, any "man" who wanted to know the facts of my past would call me on the phone - or meet me in person like a "man", and ask for my side of the story too? Trying to air people's dirty laundry on a public forum (especially when you know absolutely ZERO about the facts) just cause you can is low-down chicken shit, childish like behavior, from someone who has neither the decency or the maturity to handle a situation any other way! I hunt for a living, I do sincerely try hard to know the laws and follow them. A task made more difficult by hunting many different states / countries on a regular basis. I unlike you obviously am not infallible, I too make mistakes. But I would never intentionally / purposefully thumb my nose at the law for any sort of gain when it comes to hunting. Nor do I believe Larry Altimus did, or WLO. You for some reason just seem to have it out for everyone? I on the other hand, like to think hunters are generally good people - who can and do make mistakes. Surely you have skeletons in your closet too (unless you are the perfect person) how about you inform us of those mis-deeds and let's discuss them in an open forum? I told you mine, now tell us yours?  | |||
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Ross - I have known Larry for over 20 years, I've hunted with him in the field too. I honestly believe Larry believed he was "legal", we've discussed it several times in the past few weeks. Its a lesson learned for us all, I just hate to see it be such a restrictive lesson for Larry over what amounts to his possible mis-understanding. Topgun will of course tell you differently, as according to him - he "knew" exactly what Larry was doing / intended to do. I can only assume he's talked to Larry about this, and was at the trial too? Otherwise knowing any of the facts would seem pretty difficult. As for your "special" auction tag question, I'd say this. NO tags / quotas are ever "taken" away from the public draws for these special opportunities to bid / purchase hunting licenses - they are simply additional tags. Look at Colorado for example, they "auction" off one sheep tag to the highest bidder, and "raffle" off one tag - where no one person can legally purchase more than 25 tickets! In each case the state raises over $100,000 per tag for sheep conservation. A tag that can be used in any open / legal area of the state. Its a fabulous way to raise additional / much needed funds for wildlife conservation. These tags take nothing away from the public, and they serve a higher purpose. Sure...I wish I could buy "auction" tags too (can't afford that) but I certainly appreciate the guys like Larry Shores who can. Because of guys like him, sheep hunting opportunities for all of us continue to expand. Colorado just last week used some of that money to transplant over 20 sheep from the Rampart range into a new area by Salida - where they will hope to establish a new herd and eventually open a hunting season. There are several "new" areas opening this year to sheep hunting (draw tags) as is the case most years. And all of this is possible because of the auction / raffle efforts on behalf of the state. Its a good thing IMO. | |||
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Aaron, just because we don't know about a statute or law, does not insulate us from the consequences of breaking it. Just as your example shows, you were not aware, but you were still cited. Silly or foolish as it may be, it is still the law. There are many foolish laws in various states. Hopefully we don't break them or get caught while there...... I still think the whole Mormon angle was expressed in poor taste and shows the man's character. Bigotry. | |||
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Damn Aaron that Kansas thing is something I have never heard before. It is about the stupidest f'ing thing I have ever heard. One has to be really careful with the laws in each state. Look at the surprise Aaron got. I have stomped around the woods in Florida a long time. I just looked at the rules and got a real shock. There was a change I had no idea about. Some game wardens are assholes. Others are decent guys. Back in the days of the point system for ducks, one morning I had downed a drake wood duck and 2 green winged teal. I was done with the next duck. Ducks flew over and I shot. Three ducks fell. Oh sh*t . These were fulvous tree ducks. 100 points each. Hard to make that math work. We hauled ass and got to the boat ramp. As we were pulling out, here comes a game warden wanting to know how we did. I told him. He broke out laughing. I swore to him it was true. He laughed even harder. Finally he looked at me and told me he knew. He saw the whole thing on a spotting scope. If I had lied to him, I would have been in trouble. Since I told the truth, he let me go. They are not all asses. The guy you got was a total ass. | |||
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Now I do agree with that...I don't mean to insinuate we should be insulated from them. I am simply saying that we as "people" are all capable of mistakes - and I think generally good / honest / law abiding people should be given the benefit of the doubt - of an honest mistake. Not persecuted on social media - just cause we can. | |||
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Larry - Funny enough, I had a local with me (he was a friend) who knew the game warden very well. He actually got really pissed off at the game warden for ticketing me, and actually hand-cuffed me and took me to jail - over a $65 hunting license.  I honestly thought my friend was going to get arrested he was so mad!!!! He was a life-long Kansas resident and didn't actually know that was in fact a Kansas statute! Fact is, I was in violation - I realize that, I just wasn't aware Kansas had such a law - I never "intended" to break the law over a $65 license. I immediately bought a license, and went back to guiding. My clients actually thought it was hilarious (more like ridiculous) me, not so much!!! The officer could have given me a 1 - time warning, and sent me immediately to get my license - or just ticketed me. Instead he chose to hand-cuff me and take me to the sheriff's office - a bit over the top if you ask me. I think he was trying to make an example of me. | |||
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The name is Mike Stephenson and I live in Allegan, MI 49010-1626. I have made no attempt to remain anonymous, as I thought that was in my profile, but I see if it was it's not in there now. I'm sure you realize that most people on hunting websites have usernames. I go by Topgun 30-06 on all but this site because for some reason it wouldn't allow me to put those numbers up when I registered on this site. My profiles on all the other sites I'm on show exactly who I am and where I live such that I can be contacted by PMs or email very easy. Nope, I don't have any skeletons in my closet and the only thing I've had is two minor traffic speeding tickets way back in my early 20s some 50 years ago. I was in a LE career as an Investigator for over 30 years with the state of MI and that's why it pissed me off when I read your sorry negative comments regarding ALL the G&F Departments when you came on telling us that you backed your buddy Larry and he got screwed and all the Game Depts. sucked, which from reading this latest post appears to still be the case! I DID know of your previous history of violations in multiple states and it's probably more than you know because in this day and age it's pretty simple to get on the computer and find out almost anything you want to about someone even if you have to pay for it. FYI I also got PMs from members questioning how you seemingly suddenly vacated this thread after I addressed you and not long after that started your own "bull" thread. They asked what was going on and I informed them that was up to them to ask you and that I would not speak of your transgressions, so you're way off on your assumptions about me! One guy even asked you twice right out on the thread about stuff and you failed to respond either time! I disagree with your statement that the two Utah cases should have been handled similarly because they were two entirely different situations. One went to court and Larry was found guilty in a unanimous decision by the jury, while the other appeared to have some mitigating circumstances that led to a decision not to prosecute and FYI I do agree that it was a poor decision although you are now defending WL, so you should like the fact that he and his ram huntress got off Scott free! IMHO WLO knew exactly what they were doing, but they were slick enough to get off by having the biologist 100 miles away tell them the Nebo was open for their client and they took full advantage of that mistake and got off when everyone but the ram knew it's an odd/even year deal for the public and Governor's tags. Did you read the post by MC and my followup because both are right on the button about WL! IMHO your sorry comments about all Game Departments was/is because of your convictions that may or may not have been intentional. Only you know whether they were intentional or not and, as you stated, you paid your dues. However, many laws do not need intent to violate them, as I assume you well know now. The businesses you, WL, and Larry are in require even more knowledge of the various laws than ordinary folks and when Larry told the undercover guy he couldn't move to Utah just to get a sheep tag he knew exactly what he was doing when he did exactly that and was then just plain stupid when he moved right back to AZ immediately after drawing the tag! I don't care who turned him in or why, but he violated the law and was found guilty in a unanimous decision by a jury of his peers. You are also incorrect that "I don't have it out for everyone" unless they continue to violate the law and if that happens they should have the book thrown at them. | |||
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Mike - I am going to try and read your post, but paragraphs are your friend bud! | |||
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I generally have stuff broken into paragraphs and very seldom will you ever find a spelling mistake in a post of mine either, but you pissed me off and I just got to typing and when I got done and saw how it looked and went back to separate things you had already copied it and made your smartass comment! What is in the post is true and you didn't need to make anther smartass comment on that to me! Just read the post and if you don't like what's in it then that's too bad, but everything in it is true! | |||
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Now I get it, you yourself are former law enforcement! Happens that my biz partner and best friend is a current / active law enforcement officer here in Colorado - he's a deputy sheriff / and SWAT team commander for Jeffco (2nd largest dept in the state). I doubt he'd associate with me, or do biz with me - if he thought I was in fact a criminal - but maybe you see it differently! I have a ton of respect for law-enforcement, on average I donate $3,500 per year to law enforcement including FOP, etc, - but I have seen numerous cases (i.e., John Lewton, Bob Kern, Mike Duplan, Ryan Hatch, and the list goes on) in which over-zealous game/fish law enforcement set out with the sole intention of making examples out of this guys because they were known / high-profile hunters, in an attempt to make examples out of them all. All of whom were totally exonerated in a court of law!!! In some cases - they themselves (law-enforcement) breaking the LAW to do so. One of the gentlemen above - is a prime example of that. He was investigated for a sheep he shot, game/fish wanted to get into his house to determine if the sheep was there. Law enforcement did not have probable cause to get a warrant. However, at the time this guy had his house up for sale - so game/fish law officer FALSELY posed as a potential home buyer, called the realtor to get a showing! The judge ate him alive in OPEN COURT over this blatant violation of the law and violation of the man's rights!!! So don't tell me what I know / have seen from game / fish law enforcement, I live it every day. How about John Lewton's case where the MT game/fish officer posed as a normal "hunter", the game/fish gave the officer a Montana Sheep tag (most coveted sheep tag in the world) all in an attempt to frame John as guiding an illegal hunt. John informed him, he could not "guide / accept" any compensation for said hunt - which he DID NOT!!! The phony hunter with with John's assistance killed a ram over 200"!!!!!!!!!! Since John never accepted any compensation - they phonied up a map saying John took the guy to an off-limits area of the hunt, to kill the ram. Luckily for John he had proof otherwise - and kicked their ass in court. The game/fish officers who lied / phonied evidence should have been charged with a crime, period - but of course they were not!! Above the Law.....you tell me??? And the list goes on....... Opinions vary - but I know what I know. You certainly didn't address the facts I laid out regarding the NM Game & Fish dept now did ya....why? That's in-disputable as I have seen the official letter sent to all 260 revoked guides / outfitters in a 2 year period (I was not one of them - licensed as an outfitter in NM for 16 yrs) That means they were revoking on average 1 guide / outfitter every 3 days - but no conspiracy there for sure????? I honestly believe local, state and federal law enforcement officials are honest / hard working folks who deserve our support and try their best to honor their oath and follow the law / constitution! Personal experiences with numerous game/fish cases tell me otherwise as it pertains to these organizations! Guys like you who simply go out of their way to drudge up the past of others are bored, looking for attention or have nothing better to do. If you agree I paid my debt to society - why would you call me out about an issue I had in the mid 90's - other than to make yourself relevant in an otherwise opinionated conversation that had NOTHING to do with me???? I don't hide from it, as you see - but a "man" would call me and first ask me about the entire situation - any extenuating circumstances that could be a factor he's not aware of, before trying to publicly shame me. That's just plain chicken-shit!!! I know Larry Altimus, and I know both sides of the argument - and you know what every other arm-chair quarterback knows (just what you read in an article). I personally would never pass judgment on another man based on such non-sense, but on that subject opinions once again vary!!!!!! Dude, you are possibly the most perfect man I know. Your entire life and have no skeletons in your closet - good for you!!!  | |||
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Dude, you know nothing of the truth - you know only what you have read in articles / the internet. I hope you used more tact as an investigator, than you do as the internet police????? | |||
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LOL at the BS you have now posted in the last hour dude! You have exposed yourself as a Game Department hater and they are no different than any other enforcement officer IMHO whether you think so or not. For every case you can find and "drudge up" that you think were mishandled there are thousands of other cases that were handled properly. You should probably look into a new profession if your attitude is so warped when it's those people you need to be able to deal with properly on an almost daily basis. Incidentally, trial transcripts that are available under FOIA even when you have to pay a few bucks for them don't lie! As an Investigator for 30+ years that definitely knows how to do proper investigations, I'm not just posting shit I read on the internet that you know is always true, LOL! Speaking of tact dude, I don't think you know what that word involves based on the last couple of posts you've put up to me!!! Bye bye and buy bonds!!! | |||
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Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and should be able to express those opinions without fear of a malicious google search in an attempt to discredit them because of minor mistakes made in their youth. Aaron is somebody I consider a friend and I’ve hunted with him a bunch and I’ve never seen him break a game law and I’ve seen him chew peoples asses for things like not wearing orange in the truck when driving to and from hunting areas or not knowing exactly what legal shooting light was on that particular day. Is he capable of making a mistake? Absolutely, just as we all are, but to try and dig up dirt from 20+ years ago in attempt to discredit him and win an internet argument is ridiculous | |||
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Teenage girls use LOL Mike....just sayin! I've not "exposed" myself as anything - anyone who knows me also knows my knowledge / experience with game and fish depts. Unlike you, I have first-hand knowledge of many of their dastardly deeds. I don't make them act in malicious ways, they do that on their own my friend. But again, you make assumptions about me - and know nothing about me? A childish way to view one's character. I don't care if I find one in a million cases in which law enforcement acted inappropriately - one is too many. An up-standing law enforcement official such as yourself should agree? No law enforcement agency / individual should ever be "above" the law, period! No citizen of this country should ever be subject to violation of the law - or their rights, simply because those doing so are acting under the cover of the "law!". You obviously think otherwise??? For example - NM Game / Fish was way out of line, and the AG as well as the NM Wildlife commission agreed!!! Nothing more than a personal attempt by those involved to shame an industry that brings millions of dollars per year into their coffers, and that of the state's economy. So many guides / outfitters filed law-suits, they were drowning in legalese, and still are from what I understand and the actual paperwork I have seen! Proper investigations, are you kidding me right now? Now I know you're a complete joke!!!! Proper investigation includes interviewing potential witnesses, questioning the law enforcement officials involved, the landowner / my hunter, and me too if I am willing to give you a statement. Gathering "facts" in other words! Reading a transcript you paid for (really) on line validates your "proper" investigation of my case? That's the single most absurd thing I have ever heard a LE say, unreal! Take that to a D.A. - lets see how that works out for ya?  In my case, I was naive enough at 22 to believe law enforcement was simply after the "truth". I could not afford an attorney at the time, and I paid the price for it. Had you ever bothered to ask me for the entire story - I would have happily and honestly spent all the time on the phone you wanted to at least explain my position. There's always two sides to every story. Instead, you took the opportunity to take a cheap shot at me, based on your "thorough" investigation of me and my case! I know I'm just a dumb huntin guide, but in my previous life I just about became a criminal defense attorney because of my issue when I was young (I decided hunting was more fun). My knowledge / understanding of the law, and the rights of the citizen are beyond what you might expect. As is my official education level in Criminal Justice - but of course you wouldn't know that either, cause you don't know me from a load of coal. Fact is Mike, I've made mistakes - most people do (you aside of course). But I try my best every day to be honest, to be law - abiding, and to be a responsible / ethical hunter and citizen. I respect law enforcement (my best friend is one) but I also know they sometimes cross the line too. To think / believe otherwise is to be naive to the facts, or have never experienced it personally. | |||
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Aaron in your last post you put so many words into my mouth that were never said that I'm choking to death! For one, I didn't say I have never made any mistakes in my life, but when it comes to violating the law I told you the two screwups I made and paid the price with tickets that went on my driving record. You were the one that started all this BS by coming on this thread and telling everyone how LP got screwed and making statements about all Game Departments being corrupt and that was not an acceptable statement for me to read nor I hope anyone else that read it because you and everyone else knows that is just not true! Trial transcripts, in case you aren't familiar with them, have EVERYTHING in them to make an informed decision on a case, but I guess you don't know that because of the other absolutely ignorant comments you made about me and my previous profession! Over my 30+ year career when I had to go to court, which was always a last resort if nothing else would take care of a situation I was investigating, I never lost a case because I had all the I's dotted and the T's crossed. I wouldn't have brought up your previous violations if you hadn't made all those stupid statements about all the Game Departments being corrupt like you had never made a mistake in your life. Any human being has made mistakes during their lives, but making all those comments and continuing to do so by bringing up what you have does not make all Game Department employees bad or corrupt as you keep intimating in your posts. I stated you had paid the price for your violations just like I did mine, so let's move on with life. | |||
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Yes, I meant Aaron. Sorry about that! | |||
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Nobody said each of us can't have our own opinion! Your comment about doing a google search to discredit a person was not what happened on this thread. I knew of his previous violations before this thread ever got started from another thread on a hunting website many many years ago. My comments were not made other than to show why Aaron made those stupid comments about Game Departments being corrupt and nothing more. I'm done with this thread because nothing more needs to be said. | |||
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One thing about this whole debacle, as far as I'm concerned. If Adam Bronson did in fact turn Larry in, he'll never get a single dollar of my money, ever. I think it is beyond chicken-shit if Adam Bronson turned him in. And I intend to directly ask Bronson about this. | |||
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They say in Africa when two bull elephants fight it is the grass that suffers. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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