quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

“Under Utah law, however, hunters are not to obtain a resident hunting permit if they move to the state for a “special or temporary purpose.”

Based upon this quote, this seems pretty open ended. No time frame is attached.

I’m sure there’s a lot more than was quoted in the newspaper article I copied this from.

Read this actual statute that he was convicted under, especially the last section that was obviously violated and made even worse when he immediately moved back to AZ after drawing the tag and before the actual hunt: https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Titl...pter13/23-13-S2.html

(a) "Domicile" means the place:

(i) where an individual has a fixed permanent home and principal establishment;

(ii) to which the individual if absent, intends to return; and

(iii) in which the individual, and the individual's family voluntarily reside, not for a special or temporary purpose, but with the intention of making a permanent home.

I copied this from another forum.

"Altimus actively sought these Utah tags, and by 2013, he had amassed 21 points toward a desert bighorn sheep, more points than earned by any in-state hunter, according to court records."

"In August 2013, he rented a house in Kanab, moved his belongings there and obtained a Utah driver license, according to Stott. Using the Kanab address, Altimus applied the following March, not long after meeting the six-month threshold for residency, and drew a permit to take a bighorn from the famed Zion hunting unit — just one of 11 awarded that year.
“We proved it was all for this permit,” Stott said. A few weeks after winning the tag, Altimus moved back to Arizona, then returned for the fall hunt, where he bagged a ram."

It looks like his downfall was when he moved back to Arizona soon after drawing the permit.

One of the main reasons that I moved to Montana was for the fishing and hunting here. But then I've stayed here 43 years.

Well, if he in fact told the undercover officer that he could not move for a tag, this seems like a really dumb ass move.

New York State connects residency to "domicile", but the regulations are poorly written and very easily circumvented. The definitions are:

- Residency is a place where you maintain a fixed, permanent home, and to which you always intend to return.

- To purchase an Annual resident license, you must have permanent residency in New York State for more than 30 days.

- To purchase a Lifetime license, you must have permanent residency in New York State for at least one year immediately prior to the application date.

A legally purchased NY lifetime license is good for life, regardless if one moves to another state.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by deadibob:

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:
You can purchase property in different states, pay property tax school tax, establish a residence in more than one state. You only need receive mail at each residence.... there are no laws against multiple state residencies. I do this in Pa., Mt., Fla. where I own homes. Some bills get mailed to each home depending on time of year I make either of them my primary residence. Be prepared to file state income tax in each.
Why would I own homes in 3 states? Pa where I grew up does not tax pension, Kalispell Mt. is my summer home, Sarasota, Fla. my winter home.

Bullshiz!
You can only be a resident of one state.

In what I do for a living (CPA), one can indeed have multiple residences. However, one can only have one PRIMARY residence for purposes of multiple Federal tax issues.

In this state (FL) , one can have as many residences as one wants in as many places as one wants. However, certain state & local property tax benefits apply to the PRIMARY residence only.

I have no idea how this applied to this situation in Utah. I can't help but think there would be an issue of primary residence as well.

Since I made my original post, I have learned one other bit of information. Apparently, AFTER being drawn for the tag and BEFORE the hunt took place, the gentlemen moved back to AZ.

I have no idea what the law says but that seems pretty stupid to me.

You can have a million different residences. You can only be a legal "RESIDENT" of one state. Try applying for "RESIDENT" tags in multiple states and see what happens. That is why if I moved to Alaska, I would still have to wait a year to get a resident hunting/fishing license.

This is why every state has "RESIDENT" and "NON'RESIDENT" tags.

quote:

Originally posted by bobby7321:
Has anyone here bought a lifetime license in a state where they were a resident, then moved out of state?

Key word, lifetime license. That's the part that would make something like this legal, right? Assuming that a lifetime license grants you resident benefits in the draw.

From what I understand in some states, like Arizona, your drawing entries still would go in the resident pool but you pay the non-resident fees.

I purchased a lifetime license here in Utah in 1994, the last year they offered them. It includes a hunting license, small game license, fishing license and one mule deer tag, per year for my lifetime whether I remain in Utah or not. However, if I move out of state and become a permanent resident of another state, I will have to apply as a non-resident for any other tags or licenses, i.e. elk, pronghorn, bear, etc,. Also I would have to pay the non resident prices.

quote:

Originally posted by deadibob:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by deadibob:

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:
You can purchase property in different states, pay property tax school tax, establish a residence in more than one state. You only need receive mail at each residence.... there are no laws against multiple state residencies. I do this in Pa., Mt., Fla. where I own homes. Some bills get mailed to each home depending on time of year I make either of them my primary residence. Be prepared to file state income tax in each.
Why would I own homes in 3 states? Pa where I grew up does not tax pension, Kalispell Mt. is my summer home, Sarasota, Fla. my winter home.

Bullshiz!
You can only be a resident of one state.

In what I do for a living (CPA), one can indeed have multiple residences. However, one can only have one PRIMARY residence for purposes of multiple Federal tax issues.

In this state (FL) , one can have as many residences as one wants in as many places as one wants. However, certain state & local property tax benefits apply to the PRIMARY residence only.

I have no idea how this applied to this situation in Utah. I can't help but think there would be an issue of primary residence as well.

Since I made my original post, I have learned one other bit of information. Apparently, AFTER being drawn for the tag and BEFORE the hunt took place, the gentlemen moved back to AZ.

I have no idea what the law says but that seems pretty stupid to me.

You can have a million different residences. You can only be a legal "RESIDENT" of one state. Try applying for "RESIDENT" tags in multiple states and see what happens. That is why if I moved to Alaska, I would still have to wait a year to get a resident hunting/fishing license.

This is why every state has "RESIDENT" and "NON'RESIDENT" tags.

We are saying the same thing.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by deadibob:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by deadibob:

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:
You can purchase property in different states, pay property tax school tax, establish a residence in more than one state. You only need receive mail at each residence.... there are no laws against multiple state residencies. I do this in Pa., Mt., Fla. where I own homes. Some bills get mailed to each home depending on time of year I make either of them my primary residence. Be prepared to file state income tax in each.
Why would I own homes in 3 states? Pa where I grew up does not tax pension, Kalispell Mt. is my summer home, Sarasota, Fla. my winter home.

Bullshiz!
You can only be a resident of one state.

In what I do for a living (CPA), one can indeed have multiple residences. However, one can only have one PRIMARY residence for purposes of multiple Federal tax issues.

In this state (FL) , one can have as many residences as one wants in as many places as one wants. However, certain state & local property tax benefits apply to the PRIMARY residence only.

I have no idea how this applied to this situation in Utah. I can't help but think there would be an issue of primary residence as well.

Since I made my original post, I have learned one other bit of information. Apparently, AFTER being drawn for the tag and BEFORE the hunt took place, the gentlemen moved back to AZ.

I have no idea what the law says but that seems pretty stupid to me.

You can have a million different residences. You can only be a legal "RESIDENT" of one state. Try applying for "RESIDENT" tags in multiple states and see what happens. That is why if I moved to Alaska, I would still have to wait a year to get a resident hunting/fishing license.

This is why every state has "RESIDENT" and "NON'RESIDENT" tags.

We are saying the same thing.

Haha glad to know we're on the same page. Sometimes I don't read closely enough.

quote:

Originally posted by deadibob:

quote:

Originally posted by bobby7321:
Has anyone here bought a lifetime license in a state where they were a resident, then moved out of state?

Key word, lifetime license. That's the part that would make something like this legal, right? Assuming that a lifetime license grants you resident benefits in the draw.

From what I understand in some states, like Arizona, your drawing entries still would go in the resident pool but you pay the non-resident fees.

I purchased a lifetime license here in Utah in 1994, the last year they offered them. It includes a hunting license, small game license, fishing license and one mule deer tag, per year for my lifetime whether I remain in Utah or not. However, if I move out of state and become a permanent resident of another state, I will have to apply as a non-resident for any other tags or licenses, i.e. elk, pronghorn, bear, etc,. Also I would have to pay the non resident prices.

thanks for that info. That makes sense. So not even having a lifetime license would have help him in this scenario.


On a side note, from what I've gathered in AZ and ID you are still in the resident pool but just need to pay non-res fees.

Bobby,
I have a Kansas Lifetime Hunting License and live in Missouri. With this I am afforded all privileges of a resident Kansas hunter. I get tags for resident costs, and can apply for the rifle mule deer season also (KS rifle mule deer tags are for residents only).

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

“Under Utah law, however, hunters are not to obtain a resident hunting permit if they move to the state for a “special or temporary purpose.”

Based upon this quote, this seems pretty open ended. No time frame is attached.

Gentlemen....I've known Larry Altimus for over 20 years - as a biz associate and a friend. To know all the FACTS, and the steps he took to ensure he was "legal" in his attempt to be a legit Utah resident - is to know exactly how deceitful the Utah game and fish (like all game / fish law enforcement is) really is. This was a despicable attempt to tarnish a man, ruin his life and make an "example" out of him, simply because he's a high profile outfitter, application service owner and well known sheep hunter.

Larry has been in the industry for close to 50 years, not once ever has he been cited for a single violation of any kind. That in itself speaks well for his actions / reputation.

Lets not forget too....the dirt bag who took the claim to law enforcement that Larry was not a legit resident. This individual is a direct competing sheep outfitter in Utah, a direct competitor in the Application Service biz, and of course knows that if he provides info to the game / fish that leads to a conviction, he's legally entitled to receive a "like" license that the offender obtained to hunt his particular species!!!!! In other words, this person now is legally entitled to receive a Zion Desert Sheep tag - the best desert sheep tag in the state of UT.

The whole thing is a damn shame!!! Is this really where we are at now? A simple interpretation of a silly law over a damn sheep tag turns a 69 year old man with a spotless record into a convicted FELON....really??? Over a damn sheep tag....now he's a felon????? What a complete and total joke!!!!

He sold his house in AZ, physically moved to Utah...to include renting a home, registered his biz in Utah, registered his tax ID in Utah, registered his vehicles in Utah, registered to vote in Utah, obtained a UT driver's license in Utah, and was physically living in Utah for more than the 6 months required to qualify for UT residency. But the state used some BS law to convince a jury that his only INTENT in doing so was to get a sheep tag....which is simply not true! It all came down to his intent....well how do you get into the mind of another and prove his intent....really? His intent was to live there to further establish his sheep guiding biz in Utah, but like all of us, after the 6 month waiting period he too is and should be entitled the benefit of claiming residency in Utah like anyone else.

I'm so sick over this crap for Larry and his wife....they are the nicest, most humble people and very religious and respect hunting and the wildlife in which they hunt. A better man would be hard to find!!!!

I have known Altimus by reputation for many years, all good I might add. This "conviction" is cropping up on numerous websites, but in no instance have I heard any mention of an appeal. Is that a possibility? As Aaron mentioned, Larry jumped through many hoops to become a Utah resident. The whole deal makes no sense simply to increase odds that remain extremely long, whether one applies as a resident or non-resident.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

“Under Utah law, however, hunters are not to obtain a resident hunting permit if they move to the state for a “special or temporary purpose.”

Based upon this quote, this seems pretty open ended. No time frame is attached.

Gentlemen....I've known Larry Altimus for over 20 years - as a biz associate and a friend. To know all the FACTS, and the steps he took to ensure he was "legal" in his attempt to be a legit Utah resident - is to know exactly how deceitful the Utah game and fish (like all game / fish law enforcement is) really is. This was a despicable attempt to tarnish a man, ruin his life and make an "example" out of him, simply because he's a high profile outfitter, application service owner and well known sheep hunter.

Larry has been in the industry for close to 50 years, not once ever has he been cited for a single violation of any kind. That in itself speaks well for his actions / reputation.

Lets not forget too....the dirt bag who took the claim to law enforcement that Larry was not a legit resident. This individual is a direct competing sheep outfitter in Utah, a direct competitor in the Application Service biz, and of course knows that if he provides info to the game / fish that leads to a conviction, he's legally entitled to receive a "like" license that the offender obtained to hunt his particular species!!!!! In other words, this person now is legally entitled to receive a Zion Desert Sheep tag - the best desert sheep tag in the state of UT.

The whole thing is a damn shame!!! Is this really where we are at now? A simple interpretation of a silly law over a damn sheep tag turns a 69 year old man with a spotless record into a convicted FELON....really??? Over a damn sheep tag....now he's a felon????? What a complete and total joke!!!!

He sold his house in AZ, physically moved to Utah...to include renting a home, registered his biz in Utah, registered his tax ID in Utah, registered his vehicles in Utah, registered to vote in Utah, obtained a UT driver's license in Utah, and was physically living in Utah for more than the 6 months required to qualify for UT residency. But the state used some BS law to convince a jury that his only INTENT in doing so was to get a sheep tag....which is simply not true! It all came down to his intent....well how do you get into the mind of another and prove his intent....really? His intent was to live there to further establish his sheep guiding biz in Utah, but like all of us, after the 6 month waiting period he too is and should be entitled the benefit of claiming residency in Utah like anyone else.

I'm so sick over this crap for Larry and his wife....they are the nicest, most humble people and very religious and respect hunting and the wildlife in which they hunt. A better man would be hard to find!!!!

Well Aaron, you have added another element to this. Turn in by a competitor who gets a tag. Wow!

I don’t know the guy. Never heard of him. No idea of his intent. Why did he move back?

The question about an appeal is a good question. That takes money. If a fund was started to help him with the appeal, I would contribute.

Aaron, thanks for the personal information on Larry. Changes the lense in which this is viewed.
We have all heard of big Government over reach and this just may be one of those cases.
Thanks for the different viewpoint.

Thanks for the other side of the story Aaron
Fish and Game actions don’t surprise me
After all, I have seen what they did to my friend in Alaska and he finally beat them after 5 years and it all stemmed from rival outfitter as well as overzealous warden
It was pretty ugly but he fought them till the end and won ( unfortunately cost him shit load of money )
So Altimus maybe should fight them till the end as well and that sheep tag for the snitch should be gold for attorney
Tough deal though

Guys....I'm not saying that somewhere along the line a mistake wasn't made or perhaps he could have done it a bit differently? My real point is, Larry whole-heartedly believed he had done everything necessary to meet the legal requirements of official residency status...period!

But to make a man a felon over a technicality in the perceived interpretation of a law is absolutely insane! Its a sheep tag, he didn't molest a child, he didn't rob a bank, he got a sheep tag....come on! Where's the perspective?

And yes, the competitor who turned him in - testified at trial that he didn't do it just to obtain a "like" license.....ya right!!!!!!

My understanding of why he moved back was the expense of living there versus was he was at in AZ was too great? But its not as though he immediately jumped back to AZ and purchased a resident hunting license of any kind. Even though he leaves "today", shouldn't he still have "residency status" as it pertains to UT for as long as he has to wait to obtain the same residency status (as it applies to hunting licenses in AZ) in Arizona....which is 6 months???

All around its just BS....nothing more in my opinion and I feel just awful for him and his wife! I know its just my opinion, but obviously I feel pretty strongly about it. This is the type of thing that could happen to anyone....he had no ill intent!

He obviously is a dedicated sheep hunter or he wouldn't have amassed the points he had. His love of hunting, especially sheep, could have been the factor in making a major life changing move and nothing illegal about it.

He moved to UT. and changed everything to be a resident. According to UT.'s laws, he attained residency status or he wouldn't have been able to be in the draw. His well intent is blatant.

He literally won the lottery by drawing the tag. People have to accept that.
If his means of survival financially or otherwise did not plan out. He had every right to move any where he likes. This is the U.S. of A.
As long as he did not apply as a RESIDENT in AZ. at the same time, this validates his true UT. residency and well intent.

How many of you who draw a special tag and have to move for whatever reason, would give up your tag. It is plain stupid. Is there a law that forces you to reside in the state until the hunting season for that tag has expired.
If the hunter incurrs the extra expense, time and effort. His hardship and reward is his and his only.
If he had hunted and was not successful, would they have spent the money to go after him, or are they just trying to make an example.

I have been putting in for a sheep tag for over 30 years. I also, am content, that I will never draw a tag. The state is still collecting all their money from the applications and fees.

He flat out won the lottery and all have to accept it.
Ut. and any other state that has a program for rewarding monetary or tag compensation should be changed. People who recognize an illegal act should report it out of morale and ethical obligation, not personal gain.
I think an appeal to a higher court is in order.
I would like to see the party benefitting to show their honesty by submitting to a lie detector test.
Sadly, it takes deep pockets to seek just remedy in court. 99.9% of people don't have the means and the way. In the process, they get their reputation and name tarnished.
I would like to see a large organization support him in taking this on in court, no matter the outcome. Let true justice be served.

We can pass laws that makes you wait 5 years before you can establish residency. Or laws to make you stay in the state 5 years afterwards to show true residency. When does it stop and who needs more Gov.'t regulations. Simply stifling.

This thread has turned into a bunch of BS after another person that knows Altimus posted. The guy is a freaking violator and there is no doubt about it and the person who started this BS isn't squeaky clean either in case you're not aware of the violations that this person has been convicted of previously in more than one western state! Everyone is a NR in all but one state and in every other one that is not declared as your permanent residence you have to apply as a NR. Altimus knew that, moved for as short a time as UT allowed to apply for that tag, and then moved right back to AZ to live and hunt there after cheating the system. The Utah statute is very specific that you cannot move there for a specific reason and then leave there without continuing to be a permanent resident. If he had stayed there for a couple years and then moved, that would have been a different story. However, he moved there for a short time for the specific purpose of gaming the system and getting a tag he had no right to. The way he went about it and then moved right back to AZ after drawing the tag and well before the hunt itself speaks for itself. This kind of shit stinks and anyone that says he got screwed and it's anyone's fault other than his own lacks the same ethics that he did! For cripes sake, the guy and his wife both have multiple sheep slams, so it's not like he cheated to shoot one sheep before he died of old age. Nope, he had to cheat to shoot "ONE" more and by doing what he did he's now a felon who lost his privileges for 10 years in 47 states and can't even own a firearm now. Anyone that feels sorry for him and says how great a guy he is doesn't do a thing for all of us that follow the rules to a T!!!

Aaron,
who turned him in?

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:
This thread has turned into a bunch of BS after another person that knows Altimus posted. The guy is a freaking violator and there is no doubt about it and the person who started this BS isn't squeaky clean either in case you're not aware of the violations that this person has been convicted of previously in more than one western state! Everyone is a NR in all but one state and in every other one that is not declared as your permanent residence you have to apply as a NR. Altimus knew that, moved for as short a time as UT allowed to apply for that tag, and then moved right back to AZ to live and hunt there after cheating the system. The Utah statute is very specific that you cannot move there for a specific reason and then leave there without continuing to be a permanent resident. If he had stayed there for a couple years and then moved, that would have been a different story. However, he moved there for a short time for the specific purpose of gaming the system and getting a tag he had no right to. The way he went about it and then moved right back to AZ after drawing the tag and well before the hunt itself speaks for itself. This kind of shit stinks and anyone that says he got screwed and it's anyone's fault other than his own lacks the same ethics that he did! For cripes sake, the guy and his wife both have multiple sheep slams, so it's not like he cheated to shoot one sheep before he died of old age. Nope, he had to cheat to shoot "ONE" more and by doing what he did he's now a felon who lost his privileges for 10 years in 47 states and can't even own a firearm now. Anyone that feels sorry for him and says how great a guy he is doesn't do a thing for all of us that follow the rules to a T!!!

The ALL KNOWING Topgun 3006 has spoken, that should be good enough for anyone, the case is now closed oh wise one I can not wait until you bless us with your next kernel of infinite wisdom....

quote:

Originally posted by COYOTE HUNTER:
Aaron,
who turned him in?

Who gives a shit even if it was his own Mother?!!! Whoever turned him in knew he had violated the law and that's all that counts. He got a trail by jury, so his lawyer was able to screen the perspective jurors along with the Prosecutor before they were sworn and they issued a unanimous decision that Altimus was guilty, as charged in the Utah statute. There won't be any appeal because there is no basis for one or it would have been done ASAP after the guilty verdict.

quote:

Originally posted by squeezenhope:
I have known Altimus by reputation for many years, all good I might add. This "conviction" is cropping up on numerous websites, but in no instance have I heard any mention of an appeal. Is that a possibility? As Aaron mentioned, Larry jumped through many hoops to become a Utah resident. The whole deal makes no sense simply to increase odds that remain extremely long, whether one applies as a resident or non-resident.

His odds were not extremely long, as he essentially went to the top of the line with the number of PPs he had by applying as a Utah resident!

Moving there did not guarantee him a tag.

"Who gives a shit "

I do.
And the question wasn't directed to you.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
The ALL KNOWING Topgun 3006 has spoken, that should be good enough for anyone, the case is now closed oh wise one I can not wait until you bless us with your next kernel of infinite wisdom....

Thank you so much for realizing that I don't post on here unless I know what the flock I'm talking about and this is one of them! There is absolutely no way the guy didn't violate the statute he was charged with and why some seem to want to blame everyone/everything but the guy himself that flocked up is a sign of the times where it seems to always be someone else's fault! He had a right to trial by Judge or by a jury and chose a jury, probably because he and his attorney figured that there would be at least one juror that would vote not to convict. He rolled the dice when he did what he did and then moved right back to AZ and didn't go back until the actual hunt. It's very obvious to about 99.9% of the people on the internet that know this case that justice was served even though the ramifications were extreme. However, if crap like this isn't dealt with as a serious matter there will continue to be better chances that people will violate various laws because of low penalties. Maybe our esteemed member that is in love with the guy would like to tell us about the various violations he has been cited and convicted for in more than one state to make the statement about "exactly how deceitful the Utah game and fish (like all game fish law enforcement is) really is!!! That's a rather extreme statement in and of itself for a guy that is in the business he's in to be making statements like that!!!

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Moving there did not guarantee him a tag.

Nothing in life is guaranteed but death and taxes as the saying goes. However, with his 21 points he moved from not having a chance at that tag as a NR to a shoein with his points as a resident and that's exactly why he did what he did and was convicted. Did you not read this?:

"Altimus actively sought these Utah tags, and by 2013, he had amassed 21 points toward a desert bighorn sheep, more points than earned by any in-state hunter, according to court records."

This instance is like all others in life, nobody will agree on everything - that's the way it goes! I for one don't believe the man's intent was malicious, based on our conversations, his understanding of the law and my 20 years of personal experience with the man.

If someone else thinks you should throw the book at everyone who's caught in what the state says is their interpretation of the law versus what a reasonable / educated person believes it is, then that's your opinion. I for one don't, and I won't be swayed otherwise!

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
This instance is like all others in life, nobody will agree on everything - that's the way it goes! I for one don't believe the man's intent was malicious, based on our conversations, his understanding of the law and my 20 years of personal experience with the man.
If someone else thinks you should throw the book at everyone who's caught in what the state says is their interpretation of the law versus what a reasonable / educated person believes it is, then that's your opinion. I for one don't, and I won't be swayed otherwise!

I don't believe "malacious" is the word to be used in this particular situation either. Let's just say his violation was a huge indiscretion on his part based on the fact that it was a felony and the fine/restitution fees were right up there to the max. IMHO your second paragraph is way off because there was a lot more than one "reasonable/educated person" that convicted him based on all the available evidence that his attorney was not able to counteract to convince the jury otherwise.

I don't know the man but I would suppose he had acquired adequate legal council and had his "day" in court.

Good men sometimes do bad things and we are all considered innocent until proven guilty in this great country.

I have to assume he was proven guilty.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

But to make a man a felon over a technicality in the perceived interpretation of a law is absolutely insane! Its a sheep tag, he didn't molest a child, he didn't rob a bank, he got a sheep tag....come on! Where's the perspective?

I agree that it was a sheep tag that was stolen and not a capital crime, however the fine and loss of hunting rights seems to be in line with the crime. It's not as though he was sentenced to prison.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

My understanding of why he moved back was the expense of living there versus was he was at in AZ was too great?

Now Aaron, you know this guy on a business and personal level, do you really believe that someone as successful and he is would move to a new state without understanding the cost of living there and then "move" back to his original state within 6 months? I have a really hard time believing that you fully believe that explanation.

Everyone is obviously entitled to believe as they do....we all know as well that when you know someone personally you most certainly have a different level of knowledge and experience as it pertains to their character / morals! Myself, I generally like to have that knowledge / experience with someone before further bash their character / reputation, especially in a public setting...when the only info I have is a one page article from some magazine, but that's just me.

I've never understood the reason for spreading the word all over social media of another man's mis-fortune, and piling onto his demise....just to provide myself a drama filled afternoon? But hey, carry on guys....carry on!

Aaron, you know the guy personally so I'll ask you again....

quote:

Now Aaron, you know this guy on a business and personal level, do you really believe that someone as successful and he is would move to a new state without understanding the cost of living there and then "move" back to his original state within 6 months? I have a really hard time believing that you fully believe that explanation.

Did he buy resident or non-resident licenses when he went back to AZ?

How many years did this man live in AZ before moving to UT?

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Everyone is obviously entitled to believe as they do....we all know as well that when you know someone personally you most certainly have a different level of knowledge and experience as it pertains to their character / morals! Myself, I generally like to have that knowledge / experience with someone before further bash their character / reputation, especially in a public setting...when the only info I have is a one page article from some magazine, but that's just me.

I've never understood the reason for spreading the word all over social media of another man's mis-fortune, and piling onto his demise....just to provide myself a drama filled afternoon? But hey, carry on guys....carry on!

You know you're really digging a hole and contradicting yourself when in your initial post you spoke like you had been personally advised by Altimus of everything he had done to be legal. Now you're making the statement that the only thing you know is what you read in a one page magazine article. Spreading the word all over the net is not uncommon when someone commits a major violation and IMHO nobody "is piling onto his demise", but rather just speaking the truth that he was found guilty by a jury for an egregious violation that has now probably ruined his life and that's too bad, but it's not our fault that he did what he did and got caught!

I was born at night, but not last night. So, some of you think he really, really, planned to make a go of it in UT and did not have the day circled in red when could leave his rented home to go back to AZ?

Cost of living in UT must be outrageous to make a man pin his tail between his legs and run south to AZ in less than one business cycle.

Not buying it. Just why does it matter the motivation of someone who assists a LEO in bringing charges that, and this is important, a court upholds with a conviction? Should only the purest of souls be allowed to cooperate with LEOs?

Go on thinking was the merest of coincidences that upon drawing the tag that the cost of living bore down on this unfortunate individual like a landslide.

Quacks. Walks. Flies. Is a duck.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I have read about this else where. Some pretty reputable people are speaking up for this guy saying very positive things about him, even defending him.

Off the top of my head some of the actions they say he took include: moved there, got a drivers license there, moved his business there including registering it with the state, got car tags there, registered to vote there, abandoned his AZ domicile. One even says that he told an undercover cop posing as a UT applicant that one cannot move there for the purpose of drawing a tag.

Exactly what he did to run afoul of the law I do not know. He was obviously convicted. If what these people said is true, I would like to know the basis of the conviction.

Like Larry Shores said, I'd like to know the basis of the conviction.

I've known Larry Altimus for many years, and had him guide me on a Montana Mtn. Goat hunt about 10 years ago. I'm actually quite surprised at this. I've always thought Larry and Stephanie were stand-up, ethical people. They certainly were in my limited dealings with them.

I wonder if his prosecution and conviction was based in part on how well-known he is, and Utah saw an opportunity to make an example of him because so many sheep hunters know who he is?

I have used Larry's service in the past.
Here is the most recent email from him to his clients.

Hello Fellow Hunters and HAS Clients,

Due to the recent Utah allegations we have received some inquiries and concerns about the operating status of Hunter Application Service.

Let me assure all there has been no change in “business as usual”. Stephanie and I do appreciate your long standing patronage of HAS and we will
continue to provide the best service possible to our valued clients. The Utah incident has had no effect on HAS, if anything increased support from those that know us.

For those of you that might hear rumors or might be confronted about my actions in Utah I have attempted to explain my side of the story without going into lengthy and boring legal details.

To give you a quick overview-

We moved to Utah trying to get away from this border(50 miles), illegals, depressed economy, AZ heat, and wanting to move closer to our guiding areas in WY and MT. This move was never about
a sheep tag. Good grief, I have killed several desert sheep in other states and much larger than any UT sheep, why would I risk my life for a UT tag.
We moved totally from AZ, house was completely empty, put it up for sale and leased a home in UT($1200 mo.)for a year, our AZ home was paid for. We did every conceivable
thing to adhere to the Utah laws for residency, we moved our business, established a business tax id., registered vehicle, driver’s license, voter registration, paid UT income
tax, etc. etc. etc. I passed the Utah outfitter’s exam and was licensed as a Utah outfitter, registered that business. Another reason for our UT move was to learn the various sheep
areas in UT to establish a sheep guiding business there. We leased for a full year(UT residency law is 6 months) in hopes our AZ home would sell and find a permanent home in Utah.
We looked in numerous areas at various homes, couldn’t find or afford what we wanted. We still have our AZ home for sale and have since purchased a home in Wyoming.
I assumed since we had lived in Utah well beyond the necessary requirement to become a legal resident, that I would be entitled to buy a resident license and apply for resident drawings.
This idea that it was totally for obtaining a sheep tag is absurd.
Apparently Adam Bronson, UT Desert Sheep guide, decided differently, and notified the Utah Department of Natural Resources that I was not a Utah resident, and they launched their investigation.
I have never seen such despicable handling of a case by state investigators in my life. They came to our house, five officers, several with guns and vests, surrounded our house, and proceeded to confiscate the sheep horns and skin. I was lied to by various state investigators from the beginning and throughout the investigation. They had
an undercover cop call me(of course taping the conversation) pretending to be a hunting and application client, lying to me repeatedly, trying to get me to say that’s why we moved to Utah.
I told him on the recording “you cannot move to Utah for the purpose of drawing a tag”. I told him the legal ways and rules to become a resident and all of their requirements.
I was also appalled at state investigators lying to the jury under oath from the witness stand. Because it was a Mormon jury in a Mormon town, and the jury foreman was a highly respected Mormon man and leader in the community with a jury of Mormon women, I knew I had no chance at all, no matter what I said. Please don’t misunderstand me, I am not Mormon bashing, it’s just that if you are not a Mormon you are not accepted by them.
I never had one iota of illegal or evil intent or deceit in moving to Utah. In my business I certainly know all the rules and regulations pertaining to game laws, why in the world would I do something like this and then tell all my friends and clients about it, send pictures all over, the photo was on the cover of the Grand Slam magazine, etc. if I KNEW I was doing something illegal? I’m not that stupid!
UT Game Dept. used me as their Poster Boy to make sure this doesn’t happen again. After the trial even the jury foreman told some friends of ours in Kanab, that very thing, “we wanted to make sure this doesn’t happen again!”. They did everything they could possibly do to me, even talked about putting me in jail. They have not only taken my hunting privileges away in all states for 10 years but even fishing, trapping, taxidermy, all wildlife related licenses, and also prohibit me from applying for bonus and preference points in all states. This was not justice, this was vengeance.

So we fought it as much and as long as we could, to no avail. They did everything they could to ruin my life and career. I have been hunting and guiding for over 50 years in many states, and have never had a SINGLE violation for myself or my clients. Now to publicly smear me, I truly think they liked to be dancing on my grave!

We will continue with our application service, we’re getting tremendous support from our clients, friends, those that truly know us.
We’d be happy to continue to help with your applications,

Respectfully submitted,

Larry and Stephanie

Hunter Application Service
P O Box 552
Pearce, AZ 85625
888-824-7748
altimus@vtc.net

dogcat thanks for posting that.
I for one think he got railroaded by over zealous "over reach".