Sako

varmintguy -

if you do come lewistown way, let me know. i have a zastava in .308 and a cz 550 in 7x57 and can show you the rifles if you want. perhaps we can even head out to the range for an hour or so and you can try them out.

these are hunting rifles, not tuned-up target or varmint rifles, so the accuracy might not be sub-moa, but with a hunting rifle, there are other considerations, as i am sure you know. they are more than adequate enough for deer and antelope, which is all i am concerned with in the arena of accuracy.

if nothing else, perhaps we can discuss the hunting in the area over a beer or two....if you "pilgrims" insist on living in montana, we might as well try to help you "fit in!"

ron

Browning A-Bolt

http://www.chuckhawks.com/6x6.htm

BLASER SR 850

Weidmannsheil

Martin

Varmintguy,

Now were getting somewhere.

Since you are now an established expert on all things Remington, can you please explain the following:

What is a 3 lever trigger?
What are it's advantages over a 2 lever tigger?
What is a "floating" connector?
Why is a "floating" connector superior to other designs such a Jewel, Timmney Rifle Basic and Shilen?
Why is Remington open trigger design superior to those solid designs like Jewel, Timmney, Rifle Basic and Shilen?

Thanks,

Bob

VarmintGuy, since you keep singing the praises of the Model 700, why isn't it the equal of the Pre-64 Model 70?

What gives? Either Remington or Winchester is God's gift to Earth. Can't be both, can it?

BTW, here's a nice example of recent Remington quality

My new Remington Custom Shop piece of shit

Taksunkawitko and other conscientious persons! Last Friday (October 3rd) I headed for Butte, Montana and a long days shopping in gunshops, sporting goods stores and pawn shops. I had occassion to interview 10 countermen at 3 gun shops in Butte. All 10 men regularly and freely recommend Remington 700 Rifles to their customers! 3 men at Fran Johnsons sport shop, 4 men at Bob Wards sport store and 3 at Bugs and Bullets and I believe one was the owner there all heartily recommend the Remington 700! They were further queried if Remington 700's come back to them with major defects more often than other similar priced Rifles - answer again a unanimous one - no!
I also went to 6 pawn shops that sell firearms and asked the person behind the counter what bolt action centerfire Rifle resells the easiest! Again no decention Remington 700! Hmm... a pattern I see developing! Then my last stop of the day was at a well known custom Riflesmith and Rifle part maker (3 position safeties, express sights, bottom metal, custom rings and bases etc). Huge and busy shop this one! The guy has been around! My query here was regarding the Remington 700 trigger and their built in faults or lack there of! He does many, many trigger jobs a year and charges $65.00 to do his deluxe treatment of Remington 700 triggers! He does some bearing surface stoning along with adjustments on the 700 trigger for this price. He has no reservations regarding the 700 trigger when correctly adjusted!
Anyway I do not know any of the people I spoke with and in December I will get to my real high volume sources for additional info! I have had trouble loading the AR site for the last couple evenings so pardon the slow reply for that reason!
orion1: They both are sensational Rifles and I use several of each of them on a weekly basis. Unfortunately the pre-64 Model 70 is no longer made! So the nod goes to the Remington 700 to people who inquire of me for a recommendation.
shadow: I do not consider nor have I expressed my status as being expert in the field of triggers! Where did that come from! Again if you have something to add please do so! If not don't!
I do feel I am qualified to adjust and judge the triggers on both Remington 700's and Model 70's and have done so many many times. I also have a Schrader trigger gauge that measures in ounces and I rely on it to tell me among other things how consistent a trigger is. Remington makes excellent triggers for their 700 style Rifles!
More later dinner bell!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Taksunkawitko: I forgot to mention that I will now for sure be travelling through Lewistown. I just got off the phone with the region 400 Game Biologist and we now have some tips for scouting Mule Deer near McClelland Crossing. Due to the recent record high temps in both Glendive and Hardin, Montana yesterday (85 degrees!) the Antelope that will hopefully be in the back of our truck may be cooking! If it stays hot we may have to return with the Antelope to Dillon for processing then get back up to scout some new country at the aforementioned secret area!
I will have my new Remington 700 Sendero in 270 Winchester along and if it works out I would love for you to shoot it! It is very accurate, good looking and the trigger is "bliss"! More later!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Varmint Guy,
Are you a Remington Factory Rep?

All,
If you are looking for an exceptional Varmint rifle I suggest you look at the Cooper series of Varmint Rigs. They are great rifles right out of the box and 1/2 MOA is to be EXPECTED out of these rifles. And they are made right in Varmint Guys home state of MT.... They start around $1,000 but you will not have to bed it (already comes bedded) or tune/replace triggers (they come crisp and are easily adjustable for lighter pull withou disassembly)

Kentucky Nimrod: Are you a Cooper Arms factory rep?
I think those fine Rifles are out of the price range of the firearms we are discussing here. I love the looks of them and the feel and I here they perform well in the field but I would rather have two Remingtons for the same money than one Cooper.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

In good conscience I can recommend that Browning A-bolts and Winchester push feeds be sent to the car crusher.

Remington Sendero in 270 Winchester FIELD REPORT!

Aaahhh!!!! I think I have fallen in love again!
I just returned from a splendid Antelope Hunt in the Powder River country of eastern Montana! My main Antelope Rifle was the brand new Remington 270 Sendero I brought online just last month!
If I could remind those interested this Rifle - it shot the first and only load I tried in it into very respectable groups. I was completely happy with the accuracy and function of said Rifle at the range and could not wait to get it in the field! It shot the handloads so well I just made 40 more for the Hunt using unfireformed brass just like the load tested.
The Sendero has the 26" heavy blued barrel and I mounted a Leupold 8.5x25x40mm scope on it! It was shooting Nosler 130 gr. Ballistic Tips at 3,100 FPS! To make a long story short I killed an excellent Antelope with it at a Leica laser ranged 366 yards! One shot! I had this buck and his herd in sights 6 different times opening day and finally at 5:00 PM I took the shot! The wind was howling all day but luckily on this shot - from me to the herd and the shot was directly through the boiler room broadside! I had the Speed Goat at 483 yards broadside at noonish that day but the wind was quartering and I passed. The Remington Sendero with Harris bipod and 5 rounds of ammo got heavy after the tenth mile on foot that day (4 blisters) but it performed perfectly as hoped! It reloaded after the shot just fine but that freshly chambered round was not needed!
I think I have a new "favorite" Antelope Rifle! We were gone 6 days and had an outstanding trip viewing countless creatures both mammal, Varmints, wildfowl, waterfowl and Turkeys!
I also took an excellent Tom Turkey at 110 yards with my new Ruger 77/17V in 17 HMR! It was roosted in a tree and fell instantly dead at the shot to the neck! The Tom had been in a herd wee estimated at 250 to 300 birds until we flushed them from a ranch hay stack! The rancher pleaded with us to take more Turkeys (legally or not!) and we had to promise to come back in the spring! Its 550 miles from here but with all the Varmints and shed horns on his place I will be returning for sure! I also took several varieties of other Varmints with the 17 including a huge Porcupine!
I am pretty sure I could have taken the buck Antelope at the 483 yard range with the Remington Sendero - but the wind was a puzzle to me it was a steady 20 MPH at the time and as we were the only 2 Hunters on that section of the ranch I waited. I am glad I did. My partner got a great non-typical Antelope about 30 minutes later!
He was using a Winchester Rifle though!
Long live Remington!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I keep hearing people refer to Remington's extractor as being flimsy. In Jim Carmichael's book of the rifle, he wrote about a test that was performed between a claw extractor (I believe Winchester M70, but could be wrong) and Remington's M700. Basically a solid piece of steel was machined to have a case head on both ends. A Remington bolt and the bolt with the claw extractor were placed in a machine where they could pull on the machined steel in opposite directions w/ terrific force. To attest to the strength of both designs (and why I believe this argument is a moot point), the steel actually started to stretch before the claw extractor gave way to the Remington extractor. So, the Rem extractor is not all that flimsy. On the other hand, if brass was used instead of steel, it is likely that the case would have given away first and the larger surface area of the claw would have held better than the smaller Rem extractor.

In any case, if I had to rank rifles in the 400-600 price range, it would be:

1) Remington
2) Browning
3) Ruger
4) Weatherby Vangaurd
5) Savage

I do not rank Winchester simply because the cheapest models outside of Walmart start over $600 in my area. I haven't looked at Savage in a long while, mostly because the ones I had experience were of lower quality (but priced accordingly). This may have changed in recent years. As far as Tikka, CZ, etc.. I cannot comment because I have no experience with them. I must be lucky as I've bought new Remington 700s, Browning Abolts, and Winchester M70s in the last several years and have had zero problems and excellent accuracy (capable of consistent MOA accuracy).

-Lou

I recently read on the net that Ruger has invested in machinery for making hammer forged bbls. What a shame, I think they have some nice products but I guess they figure what their consumers dont know wont hurt them. That method is fine for provinding mass quantitys of weapons to armys, but not for precision sporting rifles though.

Anyway, they have been taken off of my list, along with the push feeds and Japanese made brands. There are enough to choose from today that I dont need to settle for anything less than what I want.

Varmint Guy,
No I'm not a Cooper rep...but you didn't answer my question...
FWIW, A Cooper M21 can be had for under $1,000 new. A Sendero or one of the better grade Remingtons run $700+/-... Needless to say, you don't have to monkey with a Cooper or pay a gunsmith to make it shoot well.

Lou,
Generally, the Remington extractors are reliable. On my hard use match rifle built off a Remington 700 I broke the extractor around 12,000 rounds. This is not uncommon from what I've seen on the HP ranges. That's a ton more use than the average rifle will see in 3 generations of hunting use. It maye be a concern for someone devoted to the last measure of reliabiity. But its not something I'd loose sleep over on a hunting rifle. Just keep it clean underneath the rim. My 700 now wears a Sako extractor and its going strong.

Hope I got this right. Excluding many, many posts which failed to answer the questions asked, and the name-calling posts it appears the posters so far favor:
1. CZ 16
2. Ruger 15
3. Remington 11
4. Savage 10
5. Winchester 8
6. Tikka 7
7. Browning 6
8. Weatherby 5
9. Blaser 5
10.Howa 2
I did not include all makes mentioned as some were mentioned just once or some were mentioned as the older models of what would be considered off the shelf such as a pre-64 Model 70.
I find it amazing the length to which people will carry their support.
As for me, I have owned two Howa rifles, both were okay, but nothing to brag about; two Winchesters, one you would want to brag about, the other was so-so; two Savages, one very good, the other so-so; one so-so Remington; two exceptional CZs, one a CZ 550 American in 7x57mm that will shoot sub-half minute of angle groups and the other a CZ 527 Lux in .223 Remington that will also shoot very, very well.
My extremely limited experience would make me point to the CZ line of rifles and the total now stands at CZ 17. Tom Purdom

Kentucky Nimrod: I forgot - no I am not connected with Remington in any monetary way! I just enjoy their products and use them a lot! I mean, A LOT! I often defend the Remington 700 when I see them attacked unrighteously.

orion1: I see you are back to baseless name calling and your normal immature childlike personality! Typical of you! By the way if you are under the misimpression that I did something unsporting or illegal then declare what it is. Regardless why don't you keep your filthy talk for your wife and kids! Maybe they have learned to enjoy it! No one else does! LOL!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Kentucky Nimrod: I thought I had posted the cost of the Sendero I recently purchased. I checked and it looks like I didn't. I paid $550.00 cash for it. No tax! I try to NEVER pay retail for firearms I buy. The only exception to my rule I can remember from the last 2 decades is the Remington 700 VLS 22-250 Stainless I just got in Idaho Falls last month. Its fit and finish were so great I could not pass it up! Idaho Falls is 145 miles each way from me.
Then - the next week I bought the exact same Rifle but in a different caliber (223 Remington) for $600.00 (significant savings off of the original price this spring of $699.00 when I started dealing on it!). Both Rifles are VERY well finished and my bore scope inspection gave no surprises. They will be shot when Big Game season allows for it. Expect range reports then!
I have a ton of tricks up my sleeves for getting Rifles from retailers at bare bones prices and I consider it part of the hobby! I also take my time in shopping for items I am interested in. Now and then one gets away but the moneys saved by me can be better spent on other needed gear - by me!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

orion1: It just keeps making me happier and happier correcting you! Keep spouting your foolishness for all to see! Please!
Not only was my taking of that Tom Turkey legal, ethical and sporting it was greatly appreciated by the rancher and his wife who's land I was hunting! They are truly troubled by the hordes of wild Turkeys that spoil their haystacks and eat their cattles feed.
By the way I sportingly cooked some of said Tom Turkey last night in a wok with stir fry vegetables and Terriyaki sauce! If you were ever to get off your immature ass and actually get out and do something positive like legally and ethically harvest some game I would give you the particulars on the recipe! There is no doubt in my mind that the only thing you do well is throw tantrums of ignorance and immaturity!
To bad for you!
I think I will have some Remington 700 Sendero killed Antelope tonight using my ranchers style of cooking! Umm good and Remington to thank for it!
Laughing out loud at you! Please keep it up orion1 you poor pathetic fool!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

i am drying jerky right now made from my cz-killed antelope, and it sure smells good.

opening day of antelope season was rather surreal for me. anyone interested in reading it can click here.

In my experience, there are two classes of shooters who love to bad mouth Remington's:
People who only can afford Savage's, and people who support foreign rifles over American production rifles.

Put me in the class that never, and I mean never, have been disappointed in Remington's for over 45 years.

I may have already responded this thread but at any rate it's fairly heated either way, and reminds me of small children squabbling over who is the best super hero

I really like cz rifles and now own 5 and plan to own more. I think there great value for money, I am looking at my cz 9.3x62 which is beside me now and it really is in my eyes a supurb looking rifle proper barrel lug, dual cross bolts for & aft the mag box, turkish walnut, I had the plastic swapped out for steel follower & floorplate and it points like a fine english shotgun and hits very hard. It has a c-clip which I realise is a flaw but that will be fixed at some point soon, funnily enough two of my cz's don't have a c-clip and two do while I am not sure about my .22 hornet cz and frankly I don't care considering what it's used for.

My smith has also stated that the cz's represent supurb value for money.

But it would seem that they could also do with a little tweaking here and there bedding in the bigger cals etc.

All of my cz's shoot pretty well and I like the mauser attributes that the action has.

You get some nice features for the money in the bigger cals too, such as integral rear sight base and flip up express style sights as well as a front ban ramp sight. They also have the double square bridges on there big mag actions which I also like. The Humpback stock while some whinge suits me fine, no issues at all. I like the set trigger feature as well, in my end of the world they are also about $500 AUS cheaper depending on model etc. than a win or rem rifle. Rugers are comparitevly priced to cz's here.

I also own a rem vssf 22/250 and it shoots win supreme factory so well I have not even bothered to load for it.

I have a ruger 30/06 MK11 stainless boat paddle which is a rugged no frills affair and while it won't out shoot my cz's or rem it has not let me down when I do my part and when the weather is shitty it is great.

I have a Marlin lever 45/70 which is very well finished and Marlin Lever guns really are excellent value & accurate although the same can not be said of a rattly win 94 30/30 I got rid of or a Marlin .22 mag that was a POS IMHO.

so at the end of the day my vote goes to cz rifles & leupold scopes as being the best value in the "low price market for firearms".
This is just my opinion

Any Mauser built by Dennis Erhardt

I love the M 70 action... but have come to the conclusion that I'm gonna have to drop at least a grand on extras to get it right... oh well, bambi will be dead, and all will be good.