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You know, IF all these "test" indicate the math is the deciding factor in "bang flop" performance, why do we get such a high percentage of bang flops on some species and such a low percentage on others? And this is using a relatively sized cartidge. ie: .223 on yotes, .25-06 on Antelope, ect.... Nate | |||
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Math isn't the deciding factor. It is a deciding factor. Lets look at humans. If math was the only deciding factor, then why can 2 individuals be in the same vehicle collision, where 1 individual dies, and the other walks away with injuries? This whole bang flop issue with respect to soft tissue trauma has so many variables that I believe the topic is nice for discussion but unanswerable. ALF: why did you delete your photos? They were nice. I've had MANY deer and yotes collapse in their tracks with lung only hits from bowrange to a couple hundred yards. I've had a few take some steps after being hit also, with the same rifle, load and within the same shooting parameters. I think sometimes it depends on the animal and the time it was hit. I killed a nice buck a few years ago with a bow and it was post rut by about a week. He ran all of 11 yards, stopped, and fell over. DONE. NOT typical for a bowkill. I don't think he had much energy. He was run down, getting thin, and his neck was decreasing in size. Just a guess, but I'd be willing to bet that same buck would have ran a good 60-70+ yards before the rut started, while he was fat and waiting for the rut to begin. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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You are correct. We have no idea relating to what happens to an animal's body and tissue when the bullet hits. Yes, one can examine wounds and come to some conclusion, but that only tells part of the story. That's why I mentioned deaths caused by balls from fast pitches. The ball stops the heart, and that's an example of another type of "bang-flop" without a wound. These are documented cases one can read about. According to what I have read, this may not happen every time, but could very well happen when the ball strikes the chest as the precise moment the heart is going to pump blood (I need to read more about this for the details). | |||
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Ray, what you are speaking of is called "commotio cordis" and is a well described event in which blunt trauma to the chest results in a small electrical conduction within the heart which can cause v-fib resulting in death. There is no reason to believe that a bullet passing close to the heart could not likewise result in v-fib and death. Another possible explanation for some bang-flops for anyone who cares Wes | |||
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I just read all five pages of this thread and I'm truly wondering what the point was. It seems that Alf is far more interested in impressing the world with his vast array of $6 words than any knowlege of actual performance criteria of terminal ballistics. Further, if one can't discuss this topic using the terminology of typical average hunters he might wonder what he is really trying to say. In this case it's pretty obvious. There's some pretty savvy hunters here and they can stick those $6 words where they belong. | |||
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I had a twang flop last year, but it wasnt DRT, severed the spine and deer went down in its tracks, but lay there bawling for about a minute before it quit breathing. Ive shot about 30 deer and the only real bang/flop Ive had was a 7mm-08 shot to the neck, that whitetail dropped like a sack, never saw it move again. On the other hand 2 years ago I shot a smaller doe with a 95 grain balistic tip that I loaded fairly fast out of a 243 at less than 50 yards, that deer had a hole on the opposite side about the size of a softball and made it about 20 yards before it fell. I also took an antelope at about 350 yards with my 243 last year with 95gr balistics and it never took a step but it stood there for about 10 seconds after the shot before falling, I was pretty sure I missed at first. | |||
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The vast majority of deer and pronghorns I've ever shot was DRT...and my gemsbok was DRT as was a springbok. But the kudu and duiker run and wasn't so lucky. The kudu took six rounds and the duiker dropped in about 25 yards. It sseems to me that using a well constructed bullet and good placement sums it up...the Kudu was very poorly hit and is the only animal I've ever shot so many times. I'm not really sure if it's important to know why they dropped DRT.....they just do when you do your part. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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I'm not really sure if it's important to know why they dropped DRT.....they just do when you do your part.[/QUOTE] Which, when all the $6 words are exhausted, is what we should all strive for. JMHO. Cheers, Dave. Aut Inveniam Viam aut Faciam. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting What explains the "bang flop" phenomena?
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