quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

quote:

Originally posted by justanotherhunter:
jorge, glad you had a good hunt. I do have a question though, as I too had read on their site that the herd is self-propagating. How many hunters/bulls per year do they take off that property? From some of the numbers I've seen, I don't think a truly self propagating herd could possibly support 1/3 or 1/4 the harvest that seems to go on for that size of place.

And I ask in large part because I am considering this hunt for my wife in the next couple years, so not in any way as a dig on the enterprise.

There is NO WAY given the amount of bulls taken that an eight square mile area can sustain those kill numbers. They do have an additional thirty of forty thousand acres, but my honest answer is I don't think they are. I can however tell you this; In three days of what I considered hard hunting involving LOTS of climbing and descending steep hills, ravines, etc, the only fence I saw was upon entering the property. All the bulls (and cows) we saw were switched on and alert and if they saw you, they booked. The closest I was able to get to my bull was three hundred yards and I shot him at 330 because he busted us and booked uphill.

It is a wonderful place to take your wife. accommodations are superb and so is the food and the Guides are fit and very professional. They can work elk calls! If you read my first posts, I think I pretty well covered the rest. Cheers, J

Thanks, and good to know. I guess I have a slight fundamental issue with an operation making it sound like they have a self sustaining population when they don't. Admittedly, the phrase "Self propagating" does not mean sustaining and that is what they use on their site, but I feel like the intent is to give a the hunter the impression that they are not trucked in each season/month/etc.

But my wife really enjoyed her LE elk tag in Utah that she drew on her 2nd try and wants another bull--but bigger this time! And since she wants it to be a physically easy hunt, I figure this is the type of hunt for her. We'll see as time gets closer if she changes her mind though.

Thanks again.

I was skeptical when the OP started relating his hunting resume before the post.

Then, says he booked a "3 day" elk hunt. I wonder what the Outfitter thought when you
arrived at camp and asked for the "Best Guide"?

You have nobody but yourself to blame. You didn't do your research.

Jorge:

I am sure glad you had a great hunt. I enjoyed your report.
Don't let the OP diminish your great experience! Nobody should judge
how and by what method we legally hunt and fish!!

quote:

"3 day" elk hunt

That, and the fact he enumerated his bona-fides in an effort to impress, and not to mention why wait until AFTER my post when he had almost a week to post before me? It's the same over on 24Hour Campfire, all the self-proclaimed "Jeremiah Johnson" wannabees are all over this, but you know what? IDGAF. We had a great time on our HUNT.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

quote:

"3 day" elk hunt

That, and the fact he enumerated his bona-fides in an effort to impress, and not to mention why wait until AFTER my post when he had almost a week to post before me? It's the same over on 24Hour Campfire, all the self-proclaimed "Jeremiah Johnson" wannabees are all over this, but you know what? IDGAF. We had a great time on our HUNT.

Agreed!!

This is not a hunt I would partake in, but no one has recognized this: Jorge could have kept mum about where he went, posted the pics and left us to think he shot on public land, etc. It speaks to his integrity (actually, I can't imagine he even thought for a minute to do so) that he didn't do that, so my hat's off to him for that!

Thank you, John.

quote:

Originally posted by Jason P:

Jorge:

I am sure glad you had a great hunt. I enjoyed your report.
Don't let the OP diminish your great experience! Nobody should judge
how and by what method we legally hunt and fish!!

+1

I do not care where or how someone chooses to hunt fenced or not. I have done the fence deal along time ago myself when exotic hunting meant traveling to the Y.O. Ranch in Texas.
My interest lies more in reading thru these posts an seeing comments by those whom have spoken out in the past about doing so in Africa for cape buffalo, lion and such. Both are noble game in their lands but no more noble than elk in their home lands.Why would it be acceptable on one side of the ocean an not here in the USA to the same posters? Put and take hunting is put and take hunting be it quail, pheasant, deer, elk, lion, impala.

Well put tooth doc!!

Lots of comments from folks that have not hunted on the property, that is the first thing one should do or visit it and see if it fits your needs. I know a lot of happy folks that have hunted Broadmouth, several post here...

Eight square miles is a lot of country considering the up and down, lots of low fence ranches are smaller than that..

Posted for what its worth, I will never hunt there, but if I was invited I sure as hell would turn it down nor would the naysayers posting..

First and foremost the dissatisfied client should take this up with Broadmouth and maybe retain a lawyer, not on the internet, that never solves a damn thing, its poor business on his part and results in 0 cooperation from the ranch..and we only get one side of the story!

I think a lot of people miss one think about this trip. Both Jorge and I are from Fl. We don't get to see mountains and terrain like this very often . When we get to see it, the land is beautiful , awesome and overwhelming.

There is a second issue as well. Some often don't get the opportunity to get wild elk meat. It is both delicious and healthy. My wife has some health issues and had pretty much been barred from eating grocery store meat. Wild game is much more desirable now. I find myself thinking about going to TX and whacking an eland just for the meat.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I think a lot of people miss one think about this trip. Both Jorge and I are from Fl. We don't get to see mountains and terrain like this very often . When we get to see it, the land is beautiful , awesome and overwhelming.

There is a second issue as well. Some often don't get the opportunity to get wild elk meat. It is both delicious and healthy. My wife has some health issues and had pretty much been barred from eating grocery store meat. Wild game is much more desirable now. I find myself thinking about going to TX and whacking an eland just for the meat.

My better half doesn't eat beef either. Right now we have deer, moose, goose (which she loves), and a bunch of fish from Mexico in the freezer. Ate the last of the elk two weeks ago - my outdoor kitchen has a built in charcoal grill with an electric rotisserie - a perfect way to grill game, as it constantly self bastes. But last night we used the gas burners to do a lobster boil while we killed a bottle of wine.

Just 5 miles north of NYC I bowhunt a diamond -shaped piece of land that is essentially "fenced in" by 2 major highways, and is about 600 acres in size. Definitely not the Wild West but if I want to hunt on my day off its either that or watch TV. Unless the deer want to chance running across a major highway they are essentially trapped. If I climb to higher ground I can look at the Empire State Building while I wait for a deer to come my way. Do I feel like I am hunting captive deer...absolutely NOT. That's just the way it is where I live unless I drive 2 hours north.

If you are a hunter then you adapt to your environment and make the best of your situation.

FWIW: To those of you who use the term "Yankee" when referring to someone from the NE...you sound retarded. I think that the Civil War ended, what 150 years ago? Second, probably most New Yorkers have only been in this country a generation or two. I grew up bi-lingual.

Time to move on...the War is over.

I have no way of telling if 201k's version is true but it is not suprising as it is exactly like a majority of elk "hunts" are done in New Zealand.

NO ONE CAN MASS PRODUCE GOOD HUNTING

quote:

Originally posted by Leopardtrack:


FWIW: To those of you who use the term "Yankee" when referring to someone from the NE...you sound retarded. I think that the Civil War ended, what 150 years ago? Second, probably most New Yorkers have only been in this country a generation or two. I grew up bi-lingual.

Time to move on...the War is over.

Ah let 'em keep licking their wounds down there for another 150 years.

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:

quote:

Originally posted by Leopardtrack:


FWIW: To those of you who use the term "Yankee" when referring to someone from the NE...you sound retarded. I think that the Civil War ended, what 150 years ago? Second, probably most New Yorkers have only been in this country a generation or two. I grew up bi-lingual.

Time to move on...the War is over.

Ah let 'em keep licking their wounds down there for another 150 years.

Yes the war ended 150 years ago

To say the Northeast corner of the USA's people are of the same culture as the Southern or even the Mid-Western states is grossly wrong.

I have heard the northeast corner described as a different country as far as culture is concerned....maybe, maybe not

I won't loose any sleep over it that's for sure

I get a kick out of these posts. Generally the haves vs. the have not's (the bums...). If one chooses to legally hunt one of their choice, go. There are plenty of azzwipes that don't because they can't...Yet in the same breath they claim to be Republicans.

it is kind of interesting that 201k & echoanne showed up about the same time.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
Yes the war ended 150 years ago

To say the Northeast corner of the USA's people are of the same culture as the Southern or even the Mid-Western states is grossly wrong.

I have heard the northeast corner described as a different country as far as culture is concerned....maybe, maybe not

I won't loose any sleep over it that's for sure

Ted, can't the same be said about every other region of the USA?

quote:

Originally posted by Leopardtrack:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
Yes the war ended 150 years ago

To say the Northeast corner of the USA's people are of the same culture as the Southern or even the Mid-Western states is grossly wrong.

I have heard the northeast corner described as a different country as far as culture is concerned....maybe, maybe not

I won't loose any sleep over it that's for sure

Ted, can't the same be said about every other region of the USA?

Yes it can

Poor rich boy Larry Shores trying to make connections between me and 201K. Don't know the guy or his posts and there IS NO CONNECTION BETWEEN ME AND 201k. As I stated when I joined: the post about which sheep group, GSCO or WSF, is what finally prompted me to post and join the forum. Once again Larry Shores is wrong and way off base. He must be mixing his CIALIS with his heart or arthritis medications!

Earl, you need professional help.

Poor Larry,
If you and the booking agent on AR with the 11 page booking contract spent as much time hunting as posting on AR you'd both be better off!

quote:

Originally posted by Echoanne12:
Poor Larry,
If you and the booking agent on AR with the 11 page booking contract spent as much time hunting as posting on AR you'd both be better off!

Your presence is unfortunate...oh well, price of freedom I suppose.

It's just that asshole Larry Root under yet another bogus login. Maybe the moderators will step in and ban his sorry decrepit ass again.

Ha! This story reminds me of some stories I heard growing up about hunting 'Russian boars' in middle/east Tennessee.

Guides would get guests liquored up and talking about what they hoped to kill the night before. The next morning, they would pick that pig out of the pen, release it to feed on some corn, all just before the hunter was brought in by his guide after a 2 hour walk in circles.

quote:

Reply

Jorge,
Don't know who Larry Root is. Certainly isn't me! And I never have or ever will go and kill or shoot any animal behind a high fence escape proof enclosure such as Broadmouth Canyon Ranch and consider it to be hunting!

quote:

Originally posted by Echoanne12:

quote:

Reply

Jorge,
Don't know who Larry Root is. Certainly isn't me! And I never have or ever will go and kill or shoot any animal behind a high fence escape proof enclosure such as Broadmouth Canyon Ranch and consider it to be hunting!

And yet there you were on Broadmouth Canyon Ranch,booked, paid in full.

If you had a fraction the experience or wisdom you so dishonestly claim you'd of not participated here on AR the way you have.

What a Jackass you've made yourself to be.

I remember Larry Root. What a Richard Cranium. In the same league as Bushwack and Zombie Killer. Glad all three are gone.
Cal

Scott,
My how things get distorted on AR! I've never set foot on Boadmouth Canyon Ranch. However I did live about 90 miles from there in Evanston, Wyoming for 13 years. Constantly heard of the foolishness at Broadmouoth Canyon Ranch by owner Rulon Jones. Amazing how the uninformed can reach conclusions on AR from a post. Then when one backs up their post with expert third party data some of the AR ostrich with their heads in the sand refer to the individual as "any inbred jackass" and "what a jackass you've made of yourself" Reading some of the posts on AR is better than going to a $10 movie!

quote:

I did live about 90 miles from there in Evanston, Pinedale Wyoming

Fixed it for you Larry. If you're not, pretty uppity for just 31 posts...

and all that for what??? So you can get your name in the SCI record book??

another "sport" hijacked by the well heeled..

quote:

Originally posted by Pa.Frank:
and all that for what??? So you can get your name in the SCI record book??

another "sport" hijacked by the well heeled..

Surely you are not addressing me, but your last sentence reeks of the green eyed monster...

This Broadmouth Canyon Ranch stuff gets more comical all the time!

jorge - any 7th grade geography class student via map quest or otherwise can see that Eden, Utah, where Broadmouth Canyon Ranch is located, is in fact about 90 miles from Evanston, Wyoming where I lived for 13 years. I never lived in Pinedale, Wyoming. By looking at a map any fool can see that Pinedale, Wyoming is much further than 90 miles away from Eden, Utah!

Pa.Frank - I never wanted to or needed to have my name included in any SCI related record book. Truth be told, I could care less about SCI and their ilk!

The crazy assumptions and finger pointing by some of the guys who post on AR related to others that disagree with them is truly amazing. As I said before: it's better entertainment than going to a $10 movie!

And just when we thought Elvis had left the building...

I like his "expert third party data" - please echodipshit just go away..

What part of no one here is interested in your self-centered, one-sided opinion do you not understand??

Oh well - cheap entertainment I guess. we always need one moron to keep us interested...

Well, ole Scott Powell rises up and once again shows his ignorance.

There is nothing self centered and one sided about anything I've posted - especially when it comes to Fair Chase hunting.

As far back as 1887 Teddy Roosevelt and others established the doctrine of Fair Chase: "the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any FREE-RANGING WILD, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage of such animals."

Going and shooting or killing an elk within a high fence escape proof enclosure like you plan to do next year at Broadmouth Canyon ranch is not hunting. Fair Chase is what separates hunting from simply killing or shooting.

One of the most basic tenets of fair chase is determining if an animal has a reasonable opportunity to escape. If it does not, the hunt cannot be considered fair chase. Going and shooting or killing an elk within a 5000 acre high fence enclosure is not Fair Chase hunting - it's merely shooting or killing. Sadly, you do not possess the critical thinking skills to differentiate between the two!

To a competent and seasoned hunter, a fair chase hunt that ends with no animal harvested is still a successful hunt. And Fair Chase hunting is critical to the continuation of hunting and the success of conservation in North America. In fact, we hunters in North America enjoy the liberty of Fair Chase hunting due to the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation - wildlife belongs to the people, and not government, corporations or individuals. That was established many many years ago by a Supreme Court decision. My self centered opinion? Hardly!!

A recent scientific survey conducted by Mark Damien Duda of Responsive Management indicates that American's approval of hunting remains high with 77% of American adults strongly or moderately in approval of hunting. When asked about hunting behind a high fence preserve the approval drops drastically to only 20! What you and others who shoot and kill animals behind a high fence do not realize is that you are playing right into the hands of the anti hunters. Groups like The Fund for Animals in order to confuse, fund raise, and rally public support for the elimination of regulated sport hunting misrepresent hunting as the shooting of animals contained behind a high fence or enclosure.

And here are some of the third party experts you scoff at which I use to formulate my facts. They are members of the Wildlife Society. A nearly 10,000 member group of scientists, hunters, managers, educators, technicians and others who manage and study wildlife populations and habitats:
Gary Potts, Illinois Dept. of Natural Resources
Paul Johansen, West Virginia Division of Natural Resources
David Andersen, Minnesota Cooperative Fish and Wildlife Research Unit
Bob Lanka, Wyoming Game and Fish Dept.
Harriet Allen, Washington Dept. of Fish and Wildlife.

Their final position statement as to confinement of wild ungulates (deer and elk among others) within high fences is clear:
1. Recognize the serious biological (diseases, genetics, etc.) and social (public versus private ownership of wildlife) associated with confinement of wild ungulates.
2. Oppose any additional conversion of the public's native wildlife to private ownership via high-fenced enclosures.
3. Oppose high-fenced enclosures, REGARDLESS OF SIZE, if they exclude free-ranginig native wildlife from critical seasonal habitats or migration routes, or jeopardize the sustainability of free-ranging native wildlife.
5. Support a moratorium on the construction of high-fenced facilities and any shipment of live cervids until live-animal diagnostic tests are available for detecting and monitoring important infectious diseases.

Finally, Scott Powell just do us all a favor on AR and post a picture of the high fence at Broadmouth Canyon Ranch with you standing next to it!

The war ain't over as long as there are Bubas and Yankees! Democrats and Republicans, and folks lacking a since of humor and can't take a joke..and if you really want to touch someone just tell them "Hey, some of my best friends are Yankees"

Echo,
You are a true dip sh...
Let's go back to Roosevelt..I agree with you. Love the guy. I have First Editions of all his hunting related major titles.
So...
To take examples of these great bastions of conservation and "Fair Chase" you are so completely enamoured with...
These guys, by today's standards violated about every game law we have on the books. They routinely used horses to chase animals to exhaustion and kill them in great numbers,
Used dogs to tire out flocks of Turkey Down and kill them. Shoot all manner of game birds off the roost.
Shoot animals literally in any part of the body they could to slow them down
Used dogs on basically everything that walked, swam, or crawled. Hell, have you read African Game Trails or any of his American Titles?
ALL THAT was ALSO under your doctrine of Fair Chase at the time you total Dumbass....
You are absolutely allowed your own ethics sir, you are not allowed to demand others conform to yours however!
Again...Go Pound Sand in a Rathole, Troll and leave others alone.

Poyntman,
You are so wrong. The guys associated with Roosevelt and others were against all of what you are claiming. Yes that was going on, that is why they came together in support of wildlife and developed the idea of Fair Chase. Ultimately the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation also came about because of their vision- not their waste of wildlife as you so eloquently describe.

The only dumbass is you who obviously has no accurate account of what happened from a historical standpoint!

Finally, I'm not demanding others conform to my ethics. Just stop and think about what they are doing when they go and kill animals, in this case elk, confined behind a high fence escape proof enclosure of 5000 acres like Broadmouth Canyon Ranch. As Harry Harju, Ph.D. Wildlife Biology, retired Director of the Wildlife Division at the Wyoming Game and Fish Department told me related to this subject, "They're shooters, not hunters." Are you a shooter or a hunter?

The fact remains, not my ethics or opinion, the anti hunters like The Fund For Animals and others, use examples of shooting and killing animals behind high fences as fund raising tools to try and stop ALL legal regulated sport hunting.

My point is don't go on a public forum (AR) and post, boast, try to explain, or support something that does not meet the definition of Fair Chase hunting. Even if you or others agree with shooting or killing animals behind a high fence the scientific facts are clear - confinement of hoofed ungulates in close proximity behind escape proof enclosures may lead to the spread and transmission of wildlife diseases such as CWD, brucellosis, and bacterial pheumonia to name just a few.

Since you seem to believe you know what has occurred historically do a google search of Clayton Williams versus The Wyoming Game and Fish Department. He tried to high fence his land in Wyoming and stock it with elk among other animals. This occurred in the late 1970's or 1980's. The state of Wyoming via The Wyoming Game and Fish Dept. would not allow this and Clayton Williams, the filthy rich guy from, you guessed it - Texas - sued the WGFD. He lost via the long standing doctrine of the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation that wildlife belongs to the public and his held in public trust for all the citizens of their respective state - not private individuals or private landowners such as Rulon Garnder at Broadmouth Canyon Ranch. That's one reason why you do not see that high fence bullshit in Wyoming to the extent you see it in Texas or Utah. There's a reason why so many Texans and others from all over North America come to Wyoming each year to hunt elk, antelope, and deer. Is it because, like Scott Powell, they can go to a high fence escape proof enclosed elk shoot of 5000 acres and expect to harvest a 360 class bull elk? Broadmouth Canyon Ranch?

If you think that is appropriate, realistic, or an example of hunting then you sir are face down in the coolaid!!

Once again, are you a shooter or a hunter?