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No, not a hoax, it's just not unique to CA, given that hunting with hounds has been targeted by HSUS and Co. for decades. And they've had success in banning it in other states via ballot measures, as in CO, OR, WA and have attempted to do so but failed in ID & MI. The issue was going to go to the ballot in CA within the next election cycle or two, and HSUS is just exploiting some unique circumstances to save the millions of $$$'s it'll cost to buy the signatures to qualify the initiative for the ballot and fund their campaign. Funny thing is that it is out of state, national monies that fund this stuff for the antis in the states that are targeted. Whereas it's the other way around for those of us who have fought these issues, with much of it coming out of our individual pockets. If I told you what you and other hunters really needed to do to fight this you'd have a heart attack.  | |||
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It was a bill (that still hasn’t passed everything yet) that would outlaw the use of dogs for bears and bobcats. It does not ban hunting bears and bobcats. Even if the bill passes and becomes law, you will still be able to hunt bears and bobcats (just without dogs). I’m sure it’s pretty safe to say we (in California) have more hunting rights (and a lot more public land with free wild animals on public land) than they do in Texas. But I’m just a 30 year old guy that hunts DYI on public land with tags drawn through public drawings. Me, sticking up for a guy that shoots farm/zoo animals behind a fence, under a feeder, is not going to do anything to help hunting. Legal or illegal it’s not hunting. And it’s not going to cause the hunting world to come to an end. | |||
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And that Sir brings us back full circle to the problem. ANY LEGAL form of hunting that is BANNED, just makes it easier to ban another form. The anti's goal is to stop ALL HUNTING EVERYWHERE. They have already stated that if they can do so one method at a time/one species at a time they will achieve their goal. Looking at your responses I wonder if outlawing bear/bobcat hunting with dogs or over bait, would bother you that much? As for this comment here: , just to clarify a few points. 1. We do not have a season on feral hogs, they can bre shot and trapped year round. 2. We can use cup and core bullets for hunting, we are not restricted to mono-metal bullets as some areas of California are. 3. We will hold onto hunting in Texas a lot longer than California and many other states, because we do not have that much Public Land. Privater Land hunting, cannot be controlled by a fickle public. 4. Not ALL of Texas is High Fenced and there are vast amounts of low fenced acreages for wildlife to range over, the down side is a person has to pay to play, but in actuality a person has to do that to some extent ANYWHERE they hunt. 5. A Non-resident General Hunting (Type 105): $315 Valid to hunt any legal bird or animal (including deer). That translates out to 5 White tails, 2 Mule Deer, 4 Wild Turkeys and 2 Javelina. Texas has its faults, just like any other state, but Texas will hold on to hunting a lot longer than other places. From your responses, you have an idealists/purists/elitists attitude about what should be and should not be considered hunting, and it is going to be that kind of attitude that kills hunting. I rather doubt that outlawing hound hunting or hunting over a bait in your state will bother you that much. It is a shame that there are people that are willing to see others lose the ability to do something, as long as they retain the ability to do what they enjoy. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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CHC what is the basis of your opinion that if 1 type of hunting is outlawed then that will make it more likely that other types of hunting will be outlawed? What about when hunting became controlled, with seasons and bag limits? What about shooting ducks with punt guns? That was quite a while ago and we still hunt ducks and geese. What about the fact that for various periods in various States, they outlawed all Whitetail hunting? Now they allow it in those states and have increased methods by adding bow, muzzleloader etc. What about when they outlawed every type of Swan hunting, and now something like 8 states have Swan hunts? What about when they outlawed Polar Bear hunting for us White folks in the 70's and then Bill Clinton of all people open up importing sport hunted Polar Bears for Americans hunting in certain Canadian areas? Now it's outlawed again? Etc. It's simple to say its a slippery slope and if they take one it will be easier to take another. Might be better to think it through and see what caused each limitation and expansion of hunting opportunities, because the gospel according to CHC will lead us to fight a series thoughtless Alamos, since we do not have a Second Amendment to base a " fight everything" approach on. | |||
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Sure it can since wildlife is a publically owned resource, not private. Even in TX. Currently TX does not allow for citizen initiative/referendum. And I say currently because there is a movement to allow for that process in TX and other states that currently do not allow it. The demographics of TX is changing, with the voter majority becoming more urban/suburban with each passing year. Same thing that happened in CA, and CO, AZ, WA, OR................... | |||
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There is no gospel according to me. At the time every thing you mentioned happened, wildlife populations, because of market hunting/subsistance hunting were at dandgerously low levels. ALSO, there WERE NOT, ANY organised groups working to stop hunting. 1900, it was believed Wood Ducks were going to become extinct. 2012, wood ducks are one of if not the most numerous species of waterfowl. What you fail to see, is that when all of the regulations were implemented, there was NO REGULATED SPORT HUNTING. You probably do not understand the concept that NO species has ever became threatened or extinct, because of REGULATED SPORT HUNTING. In fact, without regulated sport hunting, many if not all of our normally hunted game animals would have became extinct. I do not know that you comprehend that. The ANTI's don't. As for your mention concerning polar bears, thosec ARE NOT nor EVER HAVE been a strictly AMERICAN species, they fall under International Law and the decision to stop allowing the import of the trophies was made by beaurocrats without any scientific basis. Any time any activity is outlawed, or any species is outlawed from being hunted, it just makes it that easier to attack another activity and speciers and get it made off limits, typical chain reaction. You believe whatever you want to, I will believe in what I am seeing happen. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I'd love to see a post from you after you attended a David Copperfield show. Somebody would have to point out that the lady really wasnt cut in half and it was all an illusion. I am still waiting for you to substantiate your claims that CO manages its game for trophy hunters and trophy hunters only | |||
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Two years ago I put in for a fairly-easy-to-draw southwestern CO deer tag. I did not draw it. I called CO and asked them “Why did I not draw the tag”. The nice lady in licensing told me the cut the tags in half, and combined 2 of the seasons. I asked her if it was because of the winter kill. She said no, they want all the deer in that unit to have a 30’ spread. | |||
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See there! Trophy hunters look at Boone and Crockett scores, not spread! | |||
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Ain't never attended any majic shows of any kind. What was in the statement I made that you quoted still stands. I cannot prove that Colorado or any other state is managing strictly for trophies, but I seriously doubt that you can actually prove that they aren't. What real difference does it make? What does it have to do with people wanting to outlaw hunting methods that people in other states use, simply because some elitist does not agree with the method? What does it have to do with who can or cannot refer to themselves as a hunter, or what they are doing as hunting? If you and so many others feel that I am wrong with my opinions on this subject, then simply stop replying. If you all are right in your assumptions, that is great. If I am wrong with my assumptions, who the hell cares? I don't, because if I am wrong nothing is lost, no skin off anyone's arse! If however I am even only partially correct, we all lose. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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"If however I am even partially correct, we all lose." CHC Well it depends on which part you are correct. This is the quote you started with, I needed to reminded myself how this huge, entertaining, and informative thread was started. "I agree we need to maintain hunter numbers and even increase them, but are you saying if a guy opts to smoke, drink, do drugs, drop out of high school and can't afford to buy a hunting license we should let him hunt anyway? And we must all agree that any form of hunting -- behind a fence, tied to a tree, shot from a helicopter -- must be advocated and supported by all hunters before we can organize in defense of ethical hunting? Personally, I'm not willing to accept every form of hunting as ethical, let alone advocate for it. We've long had codes of conduct in hunting. Are you willing to permit waterfowling with .270 Wins? By dumping corn in shallow ponds? I fear you're painting with too broad a brush here. Don't we need some standards?" Ron Spomer (According to CHC) So CHC which part did you think was incorrect? I am not against shooting animals behind a fence, or from helicopters, or over the internet like that one enterprising texan tried several years ago, BUT just don't call it hunting. Let those folks who want merely to kill animals and those willing to provide the animals and opportunity to shoot them defend themselves. Don't rely on hunters to defend an issue that is not hunting, nor contributes to hunting. Hunting is something very different, I think most hunters can and will unite around actual hunting issues when they arise. We have seen the ability to bait deer in NE go away, but not the ability to hunt deer. I just hunted in OR for black bear, they no longer are able to hunt using dogs or bait, but I still was able to have a great black bear hunt. I did not get one, but I learned some new area and next year I will try it again. While I brought up the bb hunt I will share this. Before I left on my hunt some people who I told I was going on a black bear hunt immediately said something like,"OOH, you're going to kill a cute little bear?" Not really in a anti hunting way just in a non knowing way. To these people I just said, "No, I am not going to kill a cute little bear, I've gone three other black bear hunts and have yet to get one. It is far from sure thing, but I will get to see some amazing new country, and have a great time with my family." Those people understood now and without exception wished me good luck. Oh, and thank you 458Win, I certainly do find your posts on a variety of threads here to be very thoughtful and intelligent. You are surely not a fool or fanatic, I really liked you old signature line, thank you for not remaining silent. | |||
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What in bloody hell does that have to do with hunting? I'm thinking that instead of everyone bitch, pissing and moaning on stuff we don't happen to agree with that we would be a lot better off if we joined forces to fight the HSUS, Sierra Club and all the other damned ecoweenies that was to kill our sport. Quit the damned bickering children and act like adults. So the question is, "How do all of us who hunt by whatever legal means get together to fight the enemy?" CHC is right on one point. The antis will do whatever it take to outlaw hunting. They may have patially succeeded in Texas by stopping certain breeds of antelope from being hunted because they're endangered in their home country. Hell, from what I understand there's more of those animals living in Texas today than in Africa and India due to poaching over there. Much of the opinions I've seen here are based on personal experience and should be taken for what it is, personal experience. This colors one's opinion and rightly so. To discount it is foolhardy. But just keep on squabbling children. When the antis win, it won't be long before we'll be told that because you can't hunt you don't need your gun so turn them in. I trust my government about as far as I can pick up Rose O'Donnel and throw her. Jut my not very humble opinion. Paul B. | |||
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Slim Buttes, let me see if I can address your points.
No, but only to the part about not affording to buy a hunting license. If a person wants to smoke or drink or drop out of school that does not mean that they cannot or will not ever be a contributing member of society. Do you have any real knowledge of how long Davy Crockett or Daniel Boone attended school of any kind? Yet the prestigious Boone & Crockett Club quite happily use their names for their organization. Doing drugs is an illegal activity and if a person is caught and found guilty, depending on the charges against the person they will probably never be able to own a firearm again. You seem to have some of the same irrational concerns as what Spomer stated. No one is proposing that waterfowl be hunted with a rifle of any kind. Your problem, Spomer's problem and a few others, is an elitist's attitude about what hunting Should Be In YOUR Interpretation. It is that Elitist/Biggoted attitude among some hunters that is helping cause the problem. you and others are sargueing about the use of a word/term -Hunter/Hunting. Your opinion has nothing to do with ethics, it has to do with elitism. You did not hunt a bear over a bait, No Body really cares. I hunted bear over a Bait, No Body really cares. Except, you care, because that is the way you wanted to hunt. It meant something special to you. I hunted bear over a bait, because I wanted to and it was special to me. That does not make me any less of a hunter than you, Except in your own Biggoted little mind. I had to pay for my hunt, just like you did, I assume you paid for your hunt? I paid for my hunting license, just like you did, and last time I looked states only issue HUNTING LICENSES, NOT Shooting licenses for Big Game. You or anyone else that knows different PLEASE feel free to correct me. I had to pay for my trip from texas to Idaho, just like you did on your trip from Nebraska to Oregon. So you or any one else PLEASE explain to me, WHY my choice of method to hunt a bear was so much less of an experience than yours, and WHY I am not worthy of considering myself as a "REAL" hunter? Just to make your job easier, I do drink, have never smoked/did drugs and I did graduate High School, and I have been hunting for almost 45 years. Now why don't you or some of the other more pious explain to me why all my trophies are tainted and I should not be proud of them or the memories and pictures I have from those trips because I am not a "Real" hunter according to some of you folks. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I don't see how anyone who shoots their game in a small enclosure could possibly feel like they accomplished anything personally. | |||
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Paul, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and instead of questioning your intelligence I will just repost my response to something that CHC had said. If you read it in its entirety you should be able to understand what I was saying...
Here is the problem, CHC is making claims and has no factual evidence to back them up. He claims that the states are managing for trophy animals and cater to trophy hunters because thats where the money is. I asked him to prove it and this is when he came back with "I believe what I see happen". Thats the best he can come up with? Perception is not reality Paul. If Crazy wants to have intelligent conversation or discussion about these types of issues then he needs to have some level of intelligence about what he's talking about. I am still anxiously awaiting facts to substantiate his claims about states managing for trophy animals. | |||
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I have never done it and do not ever plan on doing it, but that is why some folks drive a Ford and others a Cheavy, PERSONAL CHOICE. Drummond, no answer I could give you wpould be good enough. Take it as it is, some folks believe the various Game Depts. including colorado are catering to trophy hunters. I cannot prove that they are, AND YOU cannot prove that they aren't!!!! Or are you the only person entitled to an OPINION, NO your not! Texas dam,n sure tries their best to pull in not only Trophy Hunters but Trophy Bass fishermen also. TP&W set it up several years back that their goal was to make Texas, "The Go To State, for trophy white tails and trophy bass. Nebraska set up their Pine Ridge district as a Trophy Deer management area. All a person has to do is have an open mind and see how thing were, compared to how they are now. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I have gone over that one before, only about 3 to 5 percent of Texas is Public Land. As far as percentage wise comparisons go, Rhode Island has more Public Land than Texas. The down side of all that is, in every place but Texas, the ability to access Public Land by hunters can be taken away, by the Public that does not believe in hunting. Ain't happening in Texas! Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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It will be a long time after everyone else gets shut out of hunting. Some things may change, but Land Owners Rights in Texas will not change. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Harlan Ellison once said “You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” This really sums up my feelings on this subject. I have posted facts Crazy, apparently you chose to ignore them. Its not difficult to see how Colorado manages its wildlife, its listed on their website. You have blamed "trophy hunting" on a number of things here on AR. From the rising cost of lease fee's to antler restrictions in TX and now you're calling out various states and their management practices yet you have NEVER provided any proof source to substantiate your claims. Its so damn frustrating its not even funny! You come on here to tell others that they should just STFU about ethics and what constitutes hunters and shooters yet go out of your way to tell us that trophy hunters are the death of the sport.
Anyway, since you dont want to take the initiative to have an informed opinion allow me to post this link for you. Please look at this, look at all of the variables associated with managing the game here in Colorado and come at me with some facts that support your claim that CO is managing for trophy animals only http://wildlife.state.co.us/HU...agementDAUPlans.aspx | |||
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Not to throw a grenade in your fire but what is happing in Texas right now with the Scimitar Oryx hunts? Isn't that a Land Owner/Hunting right being taken away in Texas right now??? | |||
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No, it is not being taken away. In fact estimatess are that around 6K Scimitar Horns have been killed since the proposed rule change first mentioned. All a land owner has to do is fill out the proper permit forms, and those animals can still be hunted. It was a knee jerk reaction by the ranchers that was not really neccessary, but the animals can still be hunted. Care to try for another grenade? Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Whoa there CHC. I think a problem may be that you are not reading what others are writing. I am certainly not an elitist, and there is no where in my post that would indicate that. And I certainly do not "have irrational concerns as to what Spomer stated" (your words) You are the one who started this thread regarding what Spomer said, I merely tried to add to the conversation. Could it be you who has irrational concerns? No where in my post did I comment on your bear hunting experience, or that mine was better than yours. I have also hunted over bait in ID about three years ago, again had a great time. I never said anything against baiting, it's a valid method and one I partook in, but because I couldn't bait in OR did not make it less or more of a hunt. Or me more or less of a hunter. The point is I got to hunt. I have read this entire thread, no one has questioned or belittled you as a "hunter." You have gone out of your way to misread others posts and twist them so you could make some other off base argument. I'm sure you are a good person and obviously care a great deal about hunting as do I. I hope you get to keep enjoying the privilege of hunting for a long time, I know I will. | |||
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So the government made privately owned animals a CITES animal and that’s okay with you? Even this Californian can’t understand that one. They are owned and raised like livestock and the government is telling people what the can and can’t do with them on private property. Are you sure you’re from Texas??? | |||
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Do you even really take the time to try to understand the stuff you say? Knee jerk reaction? FALSE yet again! All they have to do is fill out the forms? Do you know how much of a pain in the ass it is to get the proper CITES permits? Nobody wants to screw with this because of the bureaucacy involved and because government intrusion will entail. Those permits will allow the government to come onto private property at anytime, unannounced for inspection of these federally protected Oryx and you say it was a "knee jerk reaction" Unf&%#)ngbelievable Your a freaking beauty CHC. I think you type shit just to get a reaction. | |||
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A CITES permit not a form you get at WalMart. | |||
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Slim, I have not mis-read a single post/response made by anyone. You and some other's including Ron Spomer, view anyone that does not hunt or feel the same way about hunting the same way you do, is not worthy of calling themselves a hunter, or to claim that they had been hunting. I simply do not believe that way. big·ot/ˈbɪgət/noun plural big·ots [count] disapproving: a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person ; especially: a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group). Claiming that a person that does not do things just exactly the same way you do/does not believe just exactly the same way you do, is Biggotry. There, fixed it for any of you with minimal reading comprehension skills! If a person wants to go to high fence places and kill stuff and refer to themselves as a Hunter, that is THEIR DAMN buisiness, no skin off my arse. If a person believes that doing what I described above is unethical and the person should not be referring to themselves as a hunter or what they were doing should not be referred to as hunting is basic biggotry. Believing that only certain methods or equipment is the ONLY way to hunt, is an elitist attitude, plain and simple. There are a few practices that I believe are unethical, and I have listed them. But as long as it is classified as Legal, it is none of my concern. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I've seen a lot of stupid posts from you over the years, but this one takes the cake. Are you now going to tell us how the man is keeping you down? Oh yeah, what in the hell does Biggotioy mean? Maybe you can cut and paste that definition also to display your mental prowess. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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I thinkl if you actually read, instead of quoting, my misspelling of the word does not change the meanting of the word. This has nothing to do with ANYONE keeping me or anyone else down, it has to with some individuals believing that the way THEY think hunting should be done IS THE ONLY WAY. Why don't you save yourself the stress from my stupidity by simply putting me on ignore, it is really simple to do. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Except when making TV I guess. Spomer is a class a$$ not a class act. Spoken from experiance. Doug McMann www.skinnercreekhunts.com ph# 250-476-1288 Fax # 250-476-1288 PO Box 27 Tatlayoko Lake, BC Canada V0L 1W0 email skinnercreek@telus.net | |||
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Because, much like Three Stooges re-runs, you are cheap entertainment and a guilty pleasure. I read the posts and laugh, but I don't feel like a better person for having done so. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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CHC, I know exactly where you're coming from but apparently the elitists in here want it exactly there way and we get to stay home. Someday, and that day may not be all that far off, the antis will have won because we who hunt haven't gotten our heads out of our asses and gotten together to fight back. I can't stress that enough a but I'm at the point where I feel I could piss up a rope and be more successful. I can't speak about any other state managing their deer heards for trophies only but I do know that Texas does. Take a trophy deer in South Texas where the racher puts out food plots with the most nutricious plants to promote antler growth. Read John Wooters' book "HUNTING TROPHY DEER sometime as he goes into great detail on how Texas ranchers are doing everything they can to grow huge trophy anumals. It's a money thing when deer cost over $10K to hunt and to say otherwise is total bullshit! Ego trips of the wealthy rule down there. I looked for a while to see if I could find a hunt where I could get a respectable Whitetail head and I wasn't even looking for a Booner, just a nice representative head. $5K. with the "trophy" fee. Can you say greed? Oh hell! Where's the rope? I gotta take a piss. Paul B,. | |||
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It would appear that you can't differentiate between RANCHERS, who typically make more money off their hunting in S Texas than they do ranching, and the Texas Dept of Parks and Wildlife who manage the resource for the general health of the population and for quality hunting. The fact that a healthy population includes some older animals that many consider trophies is one of the benefits. Greed? What a bunch of horseshit. Do you pay their property taxes, do you pay their employees? Some Texas ranches just barely make it WITH the income from hunting and you apparently think they charge too much. Besides everthing else, apparently you are some kind of socialist that believes making a profit is somehow sinful. In short, you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to Texas ranching or hunting, which is probably why you're communicating with CHC. Go find that rope, you need it. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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How do you figure the TWP is managing the hunting resource when they control less than 5% of the land in the State of Texas? Other than charging ranchers a fee if they are leasing acreage for hunting and asking that a book be kept of what is taken off that acreage, they really have no management ability on the private ranches, unless you classify setting the hunting seasons as one. Texas is about as close to the European way as I can think of where if you don't have money, and many places it's BIG money, you don't hunt! I'm not saying the ranchers aren't entitle to run their property the way they see fit and to make a profit, but a lot of these places are charging obscene amounts of money that only the top, elite people in the USA can afford. That's a far cry from the NAM (North Americal Model of Conservation) principles that are based on everyone having equal access to the resource. Sad to say is that now hunting is just viewed as big business by a growing number of persons each year, rather than what it truly was when I was growing up back in the 50s and 60s. | |||
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If you have ever been in the low country you would look at it and wonder how in the heck can a rancher survive on cattle down there. That country for the most part, kind of like the Trans-Pecos area of West Texas, ain’t fit for a goat, much less cattle. Where I used to hunt mule deer the rancher would run eight to twelve head of cattle, PER SECTION, during a wet year. The ranchers planting Supplemental food plots is fine as it keeps the animals fit during times of high stress and draught conditions, as it takes a lot of moisture for the native brush to produce the 20-27% protein with the minerals and nutrients whereas a lot of the new hybrid plants in food plots can sustain the amount of protein and minerals with below normal rainfall. It has gotten expensive to hunt down there, especially with the trouble along the border and the hunters are not going to Mexico like in past years. It is like any other market, Whatever the Market Bares. You can still find good ranches in the low country to hunt on below 5K, but they are not the “do everything except pull the trigger and wipe their butt” ranches. Kansas offers some great whitetail hunting as well as Nebraska for well under 5K and you would have a chance at a large whitetail. There are good big whitetail being taken every year in eastern Colorado. I think that some of the greed that you are speaking of is from the middleman. I knew a couple of those guys who would find some pastures, lease them, turn around and lease them to some hunters, make a thousand dollars a head, then pay for their hunts with the money made from the second lease or slip in when the pastures were empty and do some hunting on their own, where they had no right to hunt there. The same holds true in Mexico, now. A friend of mine called me with some questions about an area where I used to hunt. He told me that the person he contacted was asking 4K for one buck. After I thought about it I told him that the two guys who are asking you to hunt with them want you to pay for their hunt as well. After some more discussion, my friend did not go with them. I don’t really think that the ranchers are that much to blame for the high prices as with some I know; they like the bragging rights amongst themselves. "We Don't Rent Pigs !" | |||
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You know, this started out (I think) as an appeal for unity amongst the hunters regardless of their discipline or style. And it has turned into one of the biggest pissing matches I've read in a while.  Aim for the exit hole | |||
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Says the guy that had an epic meltdown on this very thread.  | |||
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Well Sir, two out of three ain't bad. You may not feel the better person for reading my posts, I feel that I am the better person for simply trying to get people to think. Of all of the freedoms we are seeing taken away from us, surrendering Independent Thought and Opinion, is the ONE that is going to hurt us the most in the long run. Independent/Free Thought is what made America great. People being willing to give that up is what is ruining this country now. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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You still have not answered this...... | |||
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I did not say at any point that it was okay with me. It was the wrong move by the Feds, based on wrong/emotional information, presented by the anti's. The ranchers were iust as guilty, by trying to remove the excess animals before finding out how just exactly what was going to be required. Now, that things have calmed down, and the numbers have declined. The ranchers will beging filling out the proper forms, but the cost of killing one of those animals will have doubled! Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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