I have a Special being offered in limited numbers for some 5x5, 6x6, broken horned bulls, just bulls of non-trophy quality as they have been seeing a number of them lately...

It is a fenced hunt on a very large acreage in very rough country. You are required to hunt by foot only.

$2950.00 for a 3 day, 4 night hunt...

5 star Lodge and fully guided. Mule deer, Whitetail, Turkey and bird hunting available..

A fenced hunt for broken horned pissheads... Three thousand bucks. You gotta be f***ing kidding...

[ 05-11-2003, 22:06: Message edited by: Greenhorn ]

Greenhorn; I can't speak for the other people in the forum. But I will step up to the plate and say YOU are out of line, with that statement and attitude.. MADDOG!

Greenhorn: I take offense with one word of your post.

We can all try and be civilized.

Note the edit function on your post is available to you only.

Greenhorn-I also am only offended by the one word.But then again I have a problem with calling the shooting of a fenced in animal a hunt as well.

Well, Anyhow Ray told it like it is. I'm sure there are many times each year when people don't find out that sort of thing until they actually arrive.
Rich Elliott

Very bad form, old chap.

You know, there are some very large ranches consisting of tens of thousands of acres in the southwest portion of Texas, and the only time you see a fence is when you drive through the gate. On a spread that large, the fence is NOT a factor. Granted, there are some shoody outfits that may try and sell you a hunt on a 50 acre enclosure -- and yes, that's shooting and not hunting.

Here, Ray, whose excellent reputation is well-deserved, tells you EXACTLY what the hunt is about. So if you are not interested, leave it at that and move on.

Also, to those condemning any high-fenced operation with the thinking that's it's simply not fair chase: A number of years ago, a state agency conducted an experiment on a 40 (yes, 40 and not 400!) acre enclosure on which a number of whitetail deer were present. Only one of 8 "hunters" saw anything, and he only saw one deer.

And lastly, to Greenhorn: pelase edit your DISGUSTING post. My 11 year-old loves to read posts here, as do many other children, and your garbage is not welcomed at all.

Guys, be serious.

This site is geared towards adults. If think the language may be objectionable to you, screen the posts before the kids look at them.

George

GeorgeS-
Most of the time, your posts are right on the money. This time, you are dead-wrong.

I know of at least a dozen kids ranging from 10-16 who frequent this site -- my own son included. And while they may be kids, they are not as immature as some of the posters here.

Bobby, go cry to the forum administrator about the word in my post you don't like.

It is nice to know that more people are intertested in my choice of use for the word F*** than that of spending 3 grand to shoot a captive immature bull elk.

[ 05-11-2003, 22:07: Message edited by: Greenhorn ]

Greenhorn-
No one is forcing you to buy the hunt. So why attack someone for offering it?

Greenhorn,

There is no need or excuse for that kind of language on this forum.

Personally, I agree with Bobby point for point on this one. (Sorry, George)

Bob

Bobby,

First, Happy Mother's Day. Second, I didn't attack anybody. I just noted my opinion. I mean come on.. what a rip-off.

As for Atkinson, that stand up guy. He once hammered me on another web-site for posting a picture of an elk I arrowed on public land accessible to anybody in MT with an elk license. He falsly accused me of killing the elk on a large private ranch (unfenced 125K acres) and said it was what he'd consider a "canned" hunt and that I should be ashamed for being a "canned hunter." So here he is now... peddling canned elk hunts. I think he deserves the comments noted.

Anybody that would pay 3K to shoot a captive elk, much less a young bull with shitty antlers, should have their head examined. That's about $15/lb for the meat and you get a rack worth 50 dollars.

It is still a free country as far as I know, for how much longer I don't know! But if some one wants to spend $3000 to shoot a F*****g elk it is thier business and thier money! Who cares! I sure don't it is also thier choice. I wouldn't but then again I spend probably $1000 every fall looking for an elk and some times not even getting a shot. I wish we had the naughty finger icon!

Greenhorn, Love your statement about going to the forum leader. Doesen't seam necessary here. Seams that everybody is saying the same thing, general attitude, have a little respect. Send your statements to people in e-mail form so you don't make such a fool out of yourself. I have had people like you in hunting camp before and they soon sour the whole hunt. And everybody just as well wish they WEREN'T AROUND. So straiten up or GO HOME!!!! MADDOG!!!!

maddog... "Seam" as in a sewing term? Do you do a fair bit of sewing? My wife does.

You don't know me, and haven't had me in hunting camp before so I doubt you have a clue about me.

I personally find more offense to a captive elk shooting than I do hearing the word F***. I'd rather have my 2-year old boy saying F*** than shooting a captive elk. They would be equally impressive in my opinion.

Just my opinion, and I don't expect everybody to agree with it.

Don't forget to buy flowers for Mom today.

[ 05-11-2003, 22:08: Message edited by: Greenhorn ]

Greenhorn; Your name says it all. My spelling was never very good. But my judge of people is excellent. So when you say that I don't have a clue about you? You're wrong I can tell allot about you, your IQ, your general outlook on life etc. Well I think I have made my point and no longer wish to waste my time
on this issue. Talk to most of you guys later.. MADDOG

[ 05-11-2003, 21:27: Message edited by: MADDOG ]

I agree with kudu, Ray made an offer. Simple as that. Nobody's forced to go. This is supposed to be the information age and Ray put some information out which I for one like that idea. As for the conduct and language of "Greenhorn"...the name kind of says it all!

No need for the language, the english language is full of other alternative words to describe your dislike of fenced hunts that are quite suitable for our young readers.

I would like to see Ray deny Greenhorns accusation about the "canned" elk hunt and calling greenhorn a "canned hunter".If Greenhorn is telling the truth it would not excuse greenhorns language but I would like to hear Rays response.

For those of you currently in the monsestary... I went back and edited my posts, but the message remains. Atkinson won't deny what I said. Being an ignorant hipocrit doesn't necessarily make somebody a liar.

I went back and looked. Wow.. they keep these around for a while.

http://www.huntamerica.com/wwwthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=U BB4&Number=17256&page=&view=&sb=&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

[ 05-11-2003, 22:24: Message edited by: Greenhorn ]

I am neither defending nor attempting to berate anyone. I feel we can disagree strongly without resorting to this type of thing. There is no reason to make a point without being civil about it. In fact the more eloquent and logical the argument for or against something, the more people will listen.

Greenhorn: After you were critical of maddog's spelling, here's what you typed:
"Being an ignorant hipocrit..."

If spelling is your forte, maybe your version of Mr. Webster's book is missing a page under the "h" section.

But enough of all of this; let's move on to something worthwhile...

I see..... it looks as if I've upset some of the canned hunt boys.

I coulda said "Awe shucks" and got the same feedback.

Greenhorn, if you have a personal beef with Ray that's one thing. To air it in public or trash him on the internet serves no practical purpose. A little thing called good taste. While you may not wish to partake of Ray's offer, I still like the idea of him or anyone else, yourself included, being able to post information or make an offer on the internet. We are so fortunate to enjoy the information age today as compared to 20 years ago.

Any kid that can read knows the 'f' word...

If you want a forum with strict censorship for your kids to use, there are plenty out there.

Gatehouse:

While that may be true, there are even ADULTS who are offended by reading such garbage. IT serves no purpose here...

Greenhorn-I may not approve of you language but after reading the posts you linked to you I must admit you were telling the truth.Either you are for canned hunting or against it, but either way I do find it hypocritical when an individual tells another how it takes no skill to take an animal on a canned hunt then promotes canned hunts himself for financial profit.

In the Left corner... Weighing in at 197 Pounds. Able to RUN a 22 mile Marathon in 2.9 hours, able to Shoot Boone and Crocket elk Opening day for the Last 3 years in the row.... Taking Masive public land Animals in several States including his HOME state....
Heeeeeerrrreeees''s GREENHORN

In the Right corner, Weighing in at 550 Pounds, able to BUY Canned hunt's at $3,000 a wack.... from a 4-wheeler, Heeeeeeerrrrreee's the rest of the POSTERS !!!!!

I'll be the Judge for this Fight.. I'll have no-one saying the F word, because Kids might come to this site after downloading PORN without their parents knowlege !!! I'll have NO hitting below the Belt even though Most guys here have no "Konads". And last but not least, We'll have no one saying POO POO head

-THE REF

[ 05-12-2003, 00:02: Message edited by: Moosie ]

I see, kids read this site. While I don't condone the language, but methinks there is some holier than thou going on here. So let me get this straight this is the same site that had an auction for Russell Taylor, right? Russell being the upstanding fine gentleman that he is could probably give Greenhorn some tips on acceptable public speech You know, Russell being the master of intellectual verbal prowess and all. Just curious how all you guys keep your kids out of the Humor forum on this site? So saying the "F" is not acceptable, but gawking at the naked chicks is? At least I don't recall anyone shaking any moral fingers in the Humor forum lately. Not saying I approve of the use of the "F" word or porno pic's just saying take a look inward before y'all start pointing fingers. As to the whole issue of a canned elk hunts. That isn't hunting and is too stupid to even bother any further comment.

I am with Greenhorn on this one I think. I would rather have my kid use the word "f*&$" with a degree of regularity than honestly believe that shooting elk in an enclosure and arguably promoting CWD in the process is REALLY hunting. Nothing personal against Ray because I like the guy and we have some mutual friends in the hunting world but I think our "hunting ethics" are reflected in what we do when no one else is watching or what we decide not to do even when it may be to our immediate benefit.

JMHO,

JohnTheGreek

Much as I expected, a lack of simple intellect, courtesy and respect on the part of a couple individuals has allowed this thread to degrade to the point of no return. Nevertheless, at the same time, you are bringing more and more attention to the original post; for that, I say more power to ya'.....

Greenhorn should have never posted to begin with. The post was made as a service to people who might be interested in this hunt. If you aren't interested, go to the next post. On both this and your response to the "Rules for High fence Hunting" post, you have proven to be an inflammatory, holier than thou, ass. You behave exactly like the people who claim to be offended by hunting shows, when they could just change the channel and not watch.

No one is suggesting that you have to buy Ray's hunt. But, it is not for you to decide what is or is not ethical for others. Why do know-it-alls like you continue to do nothing but divide hunters and alienate prospective hunters with your crappy attitude? You cannot say that a hunt is canned without knowing the circumstances, like acreage, cover, terrain, population density, etc. It is your right to disagree with high fences and canned hunts (most will agree that a true canned hunt is bad), but there is no need for you to insult people who don't agree with you.

I applaud your hunting ethic and your hard work. To do all of the pre-season scouting and physical conditioning you do is admirable, and clearly you are rewarded with some fantastic experiences and some great trophies. Still, not eveyone is able to do that, either due to time contraints, family or financial considerations, or location. Not everyone lives out west, and many people wouldn't be able to hunt without employing a guide. Their position is not wrong, it's just different than yours. According to the post, $2,950 covers nice meals, and luxurious lodging, as well as a knowledgeable local guide. He's not paying to walk out into a barn and murder something. He is paying for an experience. For some people, $2,950 is a reasonable price to pay for a nice vacation in a scenic place with good food and an excellent chance at getting some Elk meat and mayb even a decent set of antlers.

Next time, think before you flame. Your flaming doesn't do anyone any good. It may make you feel superior, but I can assure you it doesn't make you look that way.

Yeah putting hunters in their relm! With friends like some of you who needs PETA!

Gatehouse, It is not a moral issue. It is one of civility. It is something that seems to be generally lacking in our culture as of late. I guess what I am trying to say is there is a right way and a wrong way to do this. It is like there is a right way and a wrong way to elk hunt for people. You all seem to accuse me of being holier than thou because I dont like this type of thing. It seems to me this is the pot calling the kettle black. What is wrong with being civil? You can still make your point just as forcefully.

[ 05-12-2003, 01:41: Message edited by: Mike Smith ]

Well said, Mike.