Mickey 1

Point being that the elk were enclosed in a fenced area. The "fact" was they were exposed
as a result of that enclosure.
The state of Colorado would love nothing more than to blame shift the responsablity for its actions.
(To cast doubt as to who was at fault for the
elk being infected). They got infected before
they got here...yeah right...bs

su35

If it is true that the Elk contacted CWD from the sheep previously in the pen than the question is why wouldn't wild Elk or Deer contact it from Sheep in the Wild? If they can, maybe we should be looking to take Sheep off of the open range?

Anytime that elk or other animals are confined together in pens or within fences you increase the risk of spreading disease.

[ 05-18-2003, 20:11: Message edited by: stubblejumper ]

su35,

CSU has done some great things for agriculture and foresty -- even my own family benefitted from their research and vaccines against brucellosis in the 1920's and 1930's, but CSU gets a black mark for this one......

These guys got it right. The sheep disease "scabbie" is quarantined when discovered and then attacked in domestic herds with a vengence. So it is not common at all for scrabbie infected sheep to be mixing it up with wildlife -- and by defninition (wildlife) will not be in a concentrated area (like a "dry lot" pen) -- let alone confined with diseased sheep.

CSU - a veterinary school had studied sheep sick with scrabbie penned over a long period (no doubt someone's PHD project) in the confinement area. When the study was over, the pen (a school academic resource) became available and was assigned for the next PHD project which happened to involve the study of deer. The deer got the old scabbie pen. Mysteriously, the deer got sick with a incurable illness which no doubt interferred with what ever PHD project was planned for them -- screwed up the whole plan....

THEN CAME THE MOST UNBELIEVABLE ACTION......

*** Did they continue to study the sick deer for a cure? ..... NO.

*** Did they euthanize the deer, since they were sick and apparently terminal? .... NO.

*** Did they release them back into the wild? ....Yes!

Was there evil intent? Probably not.
Since the evidence is all "gone" can anyone prove it one way or the other? Probably not.
With 20-20 hindsight was it a major screw up - absolutely!
Would CSU love to find another explaination for CWD? At all costs.

EKM

[ 05-19-2003, 09:00: Message edited by: ELKampMaster ]

This damn thrrad, like a disease has taken on a life of it's own. Guess I might as well spend my two pennies.
First off, my defintion of a "canned hunt" is where the animal is either in a pen maybey fifty yards square with no chance of escape, or like that outing back east where the guy rings a dinner bell and the "hero" shoots one of the elk that comes in.
Now hunting behind a high fence may be another thing entirely, depending on the amount of land that's fenced. I remember reading about a herd of whitetail deer being enclosed in an escape proof area about one mile square. Now that's small compared to the five mile by 10 mile area Ray was talking about. Several hunters, noted for their skill were allowed to hunt those enclose deer. They were, IIRC, skunked.
Just what is "fair chase" anyway? I know of a man who is paralyzed from the waist down due to medical malpractice. he lives to hunt deer. The group he hunts with place him in the back of a pick up truck on a stand and try to drive deer to him. Would you holier than thou hunters say him nay, just because he is handicapped?
What about a person who has a bad heart, but still likes to hunt? maybe, because of his poor health, ringing a dinner bell is all he has. I wouldn't care for it myself, but do any of us have the right to say he can't do it that way?
Some people just can't flat out afford the better hunts. Ray's price for that hunt is quite reasonable and if I could swing it, I'd do it. However finances and health problems prevent me from doing it. (Knee surgery that's very slow in healing plus paying for what my damn HMO won't cover.) Ray said the area was five by ten MILES in area. I think that if you holier than thou idiots consider 150 square miles a canned or fenced hunt, you must be really serious mountain men. Somehow, I have serious doubts on that.
Let's get real here. PETA and the other anti hunting freaks know about this site. They must be laughing out loud at all this dissension. Just like Sarah Brady when we argue about assault rifles, Hi-cap magazines an nauseum. Joe sez< "I shoot only shotguns. I don't care if they outlaw your assault rifle, snier rifle, etc."
So why don't we drop all this bullshit, pull our collective heads out of our asses, and join up to fight the common cause.
We all have our opinions, and I know you've heard this before, we also have assholes. Every last one of us.
For those who hold the opinion that the only fair chase is with bow and arrow, I respect that. Muzzle loader? Handgun? Hey, that's cool. me? I'd do those too, but I'll admit I don't think I'm that good, so I'll stick to my rifle.
My point is this, quit condemning the other guy's methods. If you don't like a canned or fenced hunt, don't do them. Live and let live for crying out loud. All you're doing is helping the anti's close down our sport, and I find that totally unforgivable.
Paul B. as hell and I ainm't gonna shut up!

I've been out on the hill a lot lately chasing Yogi-came back and was amazed this thing was still going-can we talk about somthing interesting and fun like-THE USE OF MK'S ON GAME-GRINS AND GRINS AND GRINS!!! Jeez I crack myself up!

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

I've decided to go on a canned hunt using Match Kings and a 45-70

Paul B,

Great Post!

And yes, can we close out this post now, it has certainly gone on long enough?

Ah reflections of the past. I remember the time I got to go on my first "canned" elk hunt on the Jirarillo Apacha Indian reservation in northern New Mexico. All the way there from the plush suite where I had spent the night (on the reservation) and bumping along the paved black-topped road with white dotted center lines, visions of monsterous racked bulls danced though my head. When we wheeled off the road and stopped in front of this gate that looked like "King Kong" might be kept behind it I wondered, "What the H***??" And sure enough we locked the gate behind us. Yes, I was naive in not realizing that the hunt was a "canned hunt", but after spending $1,750 for a guided hunt in nothern Colorado for diddly squat, what I had purchased at the RMEF banquet sounded good. Long story short, got 7X7 bull (small 7X7, xbrother-in-law has mule deer rack almost as big), cow elk, in about an hour, didn't have to get my wing tips dirty, never broke a sweat and when it was all over......I'll put my guns up before I hunt behind a fence again. It just ain't the same boys!! And that's my 2 cents worth. By the way, "H***" = "Heck!"