Nic Nuk,

Did you read the information and quotes in the link? Just answer that question.

BuzzH,

My reference to the word "Gentlemanly" had nothing to do with the harvest of the animal. It has to do with acceptable behavior in dealing with fellow hunters. My point being is that too each their own. If someone chooses to have an experience that involves an enclosure, I support their right to do so. It's not my place to say that they are wrong. If it's legal, and the market will bear the price, then I see no problem in someone choosing to do so. If's it not someone else's idea of a hunting experience, then they have every right to not participate. I have taken 350+ bull elk in my native state, 15" + antelope, and have taken blackbuck, axis and bison in Texas (at the 3rd Annual Fat Arsed, Potbellied, Barbuque Stained Tee-shirt Exotic Roundup and Beer Drinking Fest).

Is each a similar experience? No, and I would never claim it to be (although the exotics took me longer to harvest than both my last bull elk and antelope and the meat was out of this world). However, each experience that I had was unique and enjoyable. If Mr. Atkinson wants to sell these hunts, then he has every right to do so and shouldn't be chastised by other hunters in doing so. If an attorney or physician wishes to participate, then more power to them.

I have had the opportunity to share these hunts with my father and my 8 and 3 year old sons at the same time. I have had the opportunity to show them game animals that are unique and that we have had absolutely no intention to harvest. I have shared these hunts with other professionals who without these opportunities, would never been able to coordinate a get together.

If BuzzH or Kurt wishes to pass on these opportunities and enjoy the unique opportunities afforded to them by career and locale, then I wish them well in their pursuits.

Just my two cents worth...(or is it now four cents worth).

[ 05-14-2003, 02:27: Message edited by: Badboyz ]

Bullhorn,
I apoligised to the man for what happened a year ago. That is all I can do and obviously that wasn't enough..To start with I didn't realize he was bow hunting, he got mad and I fired him up a little over his response, what else can I say, obviously he doesn't want to accept the apology so be it....

The bottom line is that I am going to continue selling these hunts and there is not a damn thing you or anyone else can do about it...I feel good about it and I send a lot of happy people home....

I know that none of the 3 or 4 of you are going to book with me or anyone else for that matter, so who gives a fat rats a$$ what ya'll think..and as to the almighty dollar it feeds my family and thats a good thing...Now Buzz said if we'd pay for it he would hunt there, and that about says it all for all of you desenters...

I have listened to this crap for years and seen many of you so called purist sooner or later hunt behind a fence, so I take all this with a grain of salt...And anyone that loses respect for me because I sell these hunts is somebody I don't even know, don't want to know and I can live with that...

I have noticed that some purist use the fence thing as an excuse because they can't afford to make those hunts and I am sorry about that, but their attitude is probably the reason they can't afford them. I know others who work hard and save and don't have a lot that book an ocassional hunt because they love to hunt and they are smart enough to spend that hard earned money wisely and successfully, inasmuch as the chance of a non resident getting a bull elk in Montana without knowledge of the country is about 10% or less...also thats the stats in Idaho. 19% with a guide....

As for me I have walked 20 miles a day and slept on an elephant track for weeks at a time, I have hunted in the far North where frost bite was a daily thing, I have lived in the desert of Mexico for weeks at a time hunting deer bear and sheep, I've hunted Africa, in the great Masi Mara, Selous, and all of Zimababwe, RSA,Botswana, the middle East,China, and about everywhere else, I have hunted where no fences exist and have hunted under many fences and I will continue to hunt and sell hunts anywhere that meets MY criteria not yours, and ya'll gonna have to live with that.

I have nothing further to say on this rediculas thread of hypocrites and counterfiets...I guess I have lost my respect for you too, my goodness isn't that a real threat!

Hey Ray,

Just to clear up my statements. You made an ass of yourself by trying to belittle somebody and claiming they didn't really hunt hard and took game on a canned hunt. Then you try selling the same type of hunt you are bashing. That, sir, is the move of an ass.

I didn't make any comments about whether or not this type of hunt is right, wrong, fair, good, bad, or anything else. I just commented on YOU and YOUR COMMENTS. You can come on here now and say "just kidding" but truth be known, you look like more of an ass now.

Badboy: "If Mr. Atkinson wants to sell these hunts, then he has every right to do so and shouldn't be chastised by other hunters in doing so."

I agree. But if he wants to hammer somebody for a public land hunt archery elk hunt, calling it a "canned hunt"... then turn around and promote all sorts of captive hunts... Shouldn't he expect a response?

I guess if you're going to be a jackass, you better have some thick skin. Seems to me there are an awful lot of guys here on this site that need to justify their questionable practices of shooting captive game. In my opinion, it's pretty pathetic. If you don't appreciate hearing that, sniveling, whining, pissing and moaning might make you feel better.

[ 05-16-2003, 17:06: Message edited by: Greenhorn ]

Greenhorn,

I certainly appreciate your comments and I'm typing this slow because after reading your posts over three separate forums I have reached the conclusion that you probably don't read very fast.

I have found your posts to contain two general themes:

a. Look at me, and what I have killed; and
b. Let's see how much disruption that I can cause to a discussion.

I have yet to find any of your postings to contain any valuable information or insight. It's obvious that you have prowess, your animals that you have harvested are absolutely phenomenol. However, instead of contributing in any meaningful way, you instead choose to seek the route of immaturity.

I certainly have thick skin and quite a wonderful sense of humor. Why just the other day on a fenced exotic hunt you became the topic of discussion. Remember the antelope hunt of '99 when the officer found you in the pasture. Let me see if I can remember what your retort to him was...hmmm I believe it was "Honest, officer, I was just helping that sheep through the fence". Then, there was the infamous Idaho elk hunt of 2000 when you and five other men packed in twenty-five miles into the wilderness after monster bull elk. I believe the comment made by the Ranger was "Six men went in, three couples came out".

You want to name call and disrupt, fine go ahead. However, I believe that you will find that the posters here are of a particular high quality and most are use to dealing with the teenage mentality (not referring to chronological years). One of the ones that one of your cohorts left out was "the circumcised tip of a penis deminimis". Remember before attacking, if you are going to have a battle of wits, you are at a disadvantage when you are only half-armed.

Ray, get one thing straight...I never said I'd hunt that POS ranch you're promoting. I said I'd go in there, prove what a joke it is, and kill the living shit out of a bunch of half-tame elk...as long as Bobby picked up the tab. I wouldnt pay you 25 cents to shoot one of them crappers...and I'd sure as hell never call it hunting.

Maybe you're so far gone you've forgotten what hunting really is Ray.

What kind of a "hunter" would ever make a comment that scouting elk is a waste of time? For Christ sakes, thats about the most ignorant thing I've ever heard in regards to hunting on any forum...especially from a supposed expert who "has hunted around the world."

Sorry Ray, but any dimwit that thinks scouting is a waste of time, most certainly is a waste of my time.

Ray, do the outfits you book hunts for also think scouting is a waste of time?...probably the fenced ones anyway...when all they have to do is rattle the feed bucket. I would never book with an agent, outfitter, or representative of either if they told me "scouting is a waste of time."

[ 05-14-2003, 07:53: Message edited by: Buzz H ]

UNITED WE STAND and....... well you know the rest.

Especially when this is just ammo for the antis.

Badboy, maybe if you reach around and tickle Ray's buttocks while you're doing what you do best, you'll earn a discount on a captive elk shoot.

"Well stated Ray. Here's to hoping that someone has the experience of their lifetime by booking one of your hunts." -- Badboy Lewinski May 2003

Ewww Greenhorn, you da man. Such elliqwent cum bax and Moosie's not even holden jer hand. Greenhorn, you are akin to the illiterate graphiti master, "can't say it and can't spelt it". I love the way that you and your Cyber Terrorists attack sites. You guys are just sooooo clever. Can't argue? Can't reason? Can't run with the big boys?

You know, I really enjoyed the way that you took great pleasure in attacking the seventy year old man. I mean, WOW. And youz werent even afeared. And the way that youz were sew clever with them there dirty wordz and put downs. Man!!!! You could definitely hold your own in a put down contest with a seeeecccooond grader.

I can see that I am dealing with an absolute mental midget, so I have assisted you in coming up with some put-downs that are a little more appropriate. Please feel free to use at your leisure and take the credit:

Greenhorn, you do sure have a lot of Well-wishers. They'd all like to throw you down one...

Greenhorn,somebody said to me that you ain't fit to sleep with the pigs. Well, I stuck up for the pigs.

Greenhorn,I heard when you were a child your Mother wanted to hire someone to take care of you, but the Mafia wanted too much.

Greenhorn,why don't you just open your mind and shut your mouth, both are empty anyway.

Greenhorn,I hear you were born on April 2; a day too late!

Greenhorn,you must be an experiment in Artificial Stupidity.

Greenhorn, just out of curiosity, are your parents siblings?

Greenhorn,I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in public.

As you can tell, I have even taken the time to properly spell each for you. Now, Kurt, since your line of work involves computers, I am fairly certain that you understand the concept of "cut and paste". Please feel free to use that function and these put-downs.

"What do you mean wemmin don't have Adam's apples?" Greenhorn, May 2003.

"You sure if you just do it one time that you ain't gay?" Greenhorn, May 2003.

"Well, he was a good kisser." Greenhorn, May 2003.

[ 05-14-2003, 20:26: Message edited by: Badboyz ]

So Greenhorn why don't you post that intellectual picture of you humping a dead deer and then make comments about my litterary genious and add a few more four letter words...

It has become apparant from this post and others that when Greenhorn gets in a dispute on these boards that he calls all his buddies to come to his rescue, folks that none of us have heard of before and either they are from where he lives or they have no addresses..

Troll alert, troll alert.

Ray...... Please......

Never engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.....

If you try to argue with stupidity, they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience...

(Notice how a bunch of these "NEW" immature members seem to crop up at the same time?)

Yep. You got it. School's out. These kids are at home with the PC, and a lot of time on their hands. Sad.

Rick.

Rick,
You got it, I'll take your advise.

Why do some think it is necessary to try to implose their "will" on others?

Ray, you provide a heck of a service. Illegitimime non-corburundum (Don't let the bastards sear you down).

Badboyz,

quote:

---

Remember before attacking, if you are going to have a battle of wits, you are at a disadvantage when you are only half-armed.

---

I like that!

I can't believe this stuff is still going on six days later. On the other hand, we're close to 100 posts. We need six more and then everybody stop.

5 more

Ray, haveing dealt with you via e-mail on a couple of my questions,all I can say is I wish I had the bucks right now,because I would damn sure take a run at one of those Elk, with my back problem I hunt when and where I can. Hell I hunt deer on two farms one is only 40 ac. the other 300 and they both have cattle fence,i.e.4 strand barb-wire.Ricks right Its like the old saying
Trying to teach a pig to whistle, just makes you a fool, and anoys the hell out of the pig

Ray, you've got me confused with somebody else on any deer humping pictures. I guess in your feeble old age, you have some of that can't remember shit syndrome.

badboy, Whatever you do don't quit your day job.

Ya ray,greenhorn wasn't fucking that deer,he was making love to it.

Nope Gatehouse, you are mistaken.

Hey I found badboyz web-site:
Badboys Site

Then another place on how to rate canned hunts:
Atkinson's Hunt Rating Site

This is going to be too easy...

[ 05-15-2003, 18:29: Message edited by: Badboyz ]

Oh come on now Rued. You already tried to pass that site off as belonging to one of your buddies. "WW" wasn't it. At least be creative. Hunting behind enclosures is even more difficult than trying to deal with your feeble attempts at being clever.

Greenhorn's Recycling

Since you have turned this to a discussion of ethics, I found this site.

Greenhorn Harassing Wildlife

Even being the scholarly individual that I am, I wasn't able to determine on my own the difference between ethics and legality. Being in law enforcement, I still think that the above video is merely unethical harassment, and doesn't violate any criminal wildlife harassment statutes. In other words, things can be unethical, yet still be legal. So, I deferred my judgement to a buddy of mine who I went to law school with. He's an ADA in Montana now. Absolutely a great guy, but the man has to be the biggest animal rights fanatic that I have ever met. Boy, did we have some arguments over those issues.

He really liked this one:

Greenhorn's Assault

Or how about this one where you insinuate that you harvested a grizzly illegal.

Greenhorn's Claim to Have Harvested a Montana Grizzly

I told him that I thought that you were entirely tongue in cheek and there probably wasn't any reason to get that search warrant.

[ 05-15-2003, 21:21: Message edited by: Badboyz ]

HAHA>.. You Fuggers ARE HILLARIOUS !!!!

First off, Not that Greenhorn needs Defending, But he helps those that really need it or Apreciate it, I for one met Greeny on the net and Hated his guts, Since then We've hunted together and We've kilt some Big bear, and big elk.. I've gone from Hating him to just "NOT LIKEING him"

He can take a good joke, but I can't !! I got offended with the posts above about Greeny humping the dead DEER !!! I spent years on these boars posting pictures of ME nekid holding Pans in front of my Crotch, Me helping sheep over fences and even having some Love time with Deer...

NOW GREENY gets Credit for it...

Notice that I have spent time With Greeny and his Family but I am not as Ugly as he is.... Notice my Awsome looks !!! TAKE a look at this picture and Remember my face. then Lighten the HELL up and Pull your heads out :



ALSO... I think I found a Picture of RAY...



AND Yes, I've used them before, But they are still funny !!! Just like Greeny's LINKS !!! HAHA !!

OHHH and By the WAY, I hunt the High fence and Enjoy it, But notice that me and Greenhorn get along, I guess it's because we're both not Holier then though ?!?!!

We're not Fighting you for Anti's to hate us, We're fighting you because you suck !!!!

-Jerry Springer 'AKA' Moosie

oscar@elkaholic.com (for any personal complaints)

I've reverted to juvenile banter long enough on this one. I for one, am stepping out and allowing this thread to die.

WoW... big WERDS.... Please translate for those of us that haven't finished the 10th grade !!!!

Also, did ya want to look up were I live too.... Or did you just want me to Email you my Address ?

You can start by Emailing me at suckmycockyou_blowh@rd.now

Okay, one more time. Mr. Williamson, I have your address on file. Just reviewing your filings as we speak. I'm certainly having trouble reconciling your stated income for the hats/t-shirts and web-site related items. I'm sure that it was just an oversight on your part and not intentional fraud.

By the way, shouldn't someone who is 30 years of age be a little more mature?

You may email me at

federalprisonersstillgetraped@threetofive.gov

[ 05-15-2003, 19:14: Message edited by: Badboyz ]

I got you to post one more time.. this is easy.. just like you said

You got me there. Oooppps. You got me again. Damn, you're are good.

[ 05-15-2003, 21:23: Message edited by: Badboyz ]

You should see me danceing

THIS is "Badboyz" ----->>>

THIS is "Badboyz" messing with Moosie ------>>>

Any questions ?~?~?

See.. Now you realize why this is so fun

Badboy, you have too much time on your hands.

That, and you're infatuated with me. May I suggest a better way to spend your day, like work, a hobby, exercise, or some family time? Maybe you could go on that canned hunt of a lifetime for broken-horn piss-heads bull elk with your buddy Ray.

For your obsession with me, I can help. For the right price I could give you some of my personal artifacts for you to keep around your neck, in your wallet, etc. Maybe one of my dirty socks or some soiled ass-wipe would satisfy your needs.

As for my grizzly killing comment, it�s clear it went way over your head. I'm from Bozeman, an MSU grad, ie, the Bobcats. UM in Missoula, the Grizzlies are the rival. Get it? Sorry for the deepness of that remark. Maybe some further investigation from your animal rights butt buddy is in order. Send him over with the search warrant. It would be a gas.

Tom, Watch this. It's better than a picture. It's a video of a good buck antelope jumping a fence. He wasn't spooked and he didn't pace the fence at all... just walked up and jumped. I've seen it happen quite a lot. I was trying to kill him at the time during an archery hunt in Wyoming, and he got away... that happens when you don't hunt within 10ft woven wire enclosures.

http://www.huntandlodge.com/albums/album62/fencelope.wmv

Another thing badboy... some great video clips on Moosie's web-site for your animal rights partner. Look under the Other hunting, exploding and dancing prairie dogs... are they black footed ferrets, or are they black tailed prairie dogs? Doh!

http://www.huntandlodge.com/gallery/Greenhorn

[ 05-16-2003, 05:27: Message edited by: Greenhorn ]

Just to clear up some statements made by Ray.

First of all its a fallacy that elk are indigenous to the prairies, they are not. They have always been a part of thick forests.

Second, This is not a hunt its a cull as he stated. Some rich doctors who want to kill something and be able to go home and brag about it. big deal...

Third, These elk farmers who want to cull the raghorns out of their fenced herd will pay/buy
elk seman from a "trophy elk" for thousands of dollars. Then artificialy inseminte a cow elk with it to produce a artificial herd of elk that
they dont want going outside the fence to spread/waste their "valued genes" on a (read) real wild cow elk.

fourth, These fenced areas are the root cause of
CWD that has hit/spread to wild game out west.

This is not hunting PERIOD!!!! Its a kill and
promoted to make a buck and then defended by the
rich and lazy.

It will ruin hunting and Ray as much as I respect his knowledge of guns and real hunting
should be ashamed to even participate in this.
Its all for money.

According to many accounts and research, elk in fact did occupy plains areas.

They ended up going into the mountains when human pressure pushed them up there.

I'm certainly no expert on elk, as there aren't many in my neck of the woods, but I believe they like to feed more on grasses, rather than browsing.

su35,
Read the journals of Lewis and Clark or a hundred other true accounts from the 1800's, Elk were quite numerous on the Great Plains. They also lived in high numbers in the open grasslands of the central valley of California. Overhunting and other pressures from humans drove them into the mountains, in California it almost drove them into extinction.

Indeed they (elk) did roam the plains, but they were a
true woods animal and were not driven there by man as is taught. Really.
I used to believe that too till further reserch proved it incorrect.

What is taught is that the elk were driven off the plains to altitudes not previously inhabited enmasse, specifally the Rocky Mountain chain. They were to be found on the Great Plains and into
the eastern woodlands as far as New York, Connecticut and Pennsylvannia, to the north but generally to the western slopes of the Appalachian chain down to the Virginias and possibly the Carolinas, according to source.