How do most combination guns and drillings do in the accuracy dept. compared to modern bolt guns of average sporter flavor (obviously not target/varmint type set ups)?

I am interested as I think a combo like a Valmet 412 in 12/.30-06 with a QD scope just makes so much sense as a go-to hunting gun but I am curious about accuracy - would you use one for open country hunting?

Cheers

If the 'combo" has only one rifle barrel, then it should be quite as accurate as a bolt-action, shot to shot. If it has TWO rifle barrels, then grouping is very dependent on the particuliar load/bullet.

Combos like the Valmet/Tikka 412/512 are very accurate. I've owned many Valmets and a Tikka 512S DT in 12ga/9,3X74R. I had a lot of different barrel sets over the years, also. All except a Valmet 412S in 12ga o/u were sold to pay medical bills. This was my last set to go...the Tikka in 12/9,3 with 4X scope in valmet mount and a second set of 9,3 o/u DR barrels with a 1-4 Leupold.

I took a decent kudu with the 12/9,3 set and many deer with a 12/30-06 set.






As for accuracy of a good drilling, my Simson 12ga/9,3X74R with a Schmidt & Bender in claw mounts shoots pretty well, I think.




You won't go wrong with a 12ga/30-06 Valmet or Tikka combo, for sure!

My Blaser 95 BBF 12g/7x57R regularly returns groups of 0.6 from the rifle BBL, with factory ammo. I have been meaning to try some handloads, to see if I can tighten that up some, but since I still have 240 rds of factory left, and use about 20 a year, I just haven't gotten around to it.

Thanks,

Great pix - the 412/512 really does look a great combo!

I routinely get less than 1 inch groups from my Brno ZH 12ga/7x57R using handloads. Best is about .8 and that is dependant on me not the BBF. Don't know how accurate it might be from factory loads as I haven't used factory loads since the first box (to get the brass).

Have any of you used the Baikal combo's (tnaks I know!)?

Web reviews are not glowing but they sem to be functional and fairly accurate rifles, the shot barrel comming with multi-chokes too.

I shoot Sellier & Belloit in my 12ga/7x57r CZ combo and groups are around an inch with scope. A little stringing vertically as barrel heats up but I would have expected that. Very pleasing gun to shoot but atrocious irons.

Baikals are so, so, stay away from then look for older Brno´s and CZ they are good value for money so to speak.

Tikka M77 are some really great guns as well, go take a look for one, my hunting buddy has one shoots annoyingly well with it.

Best regards Chris

quote:

Originally posted by kayaker:
Have any of you used the Baikal combo's (tnaks I know!)?

Web reviews are not glowing but they sem to be functional and fairly accurate rifles, the shot barrel comming with multi-chokes too.

I see everyone here as had the same good luck on accuracy I have with my drillings and combo's.
I'm surprised no one here has mentioned the key factor in getting them to shoot ( let the barrel cool completly between shots) Or did someone mention that and I just read through the postings to quicly.

OK I stand here with one foot on the ground and the other in my mouth. I see Zimbabwe mentioned about heat being a factor.
From a cold barrel ether of my bbf's and for sure one of my drillings will give me 1 M.O.A. or better. I have a old Suhler that I haven't dialed in yet but I'm sure it will do just fine.

I had my 30-06 Sauer on a hunt in South Africa about ten years ago when an oppertunity on a mountain reedbuck came up at about 250 yards. The PH asked if the drilling was able to make that long shot and I only replyed lets see. The buck went down with one shot and we spent the next half hour getting to it through all the harsh terrain.

Try spraying a small shot of starting fluid on the barrels...NOT ON THE WOOD!! It cools them right down, and you can save a heck of a lot of time at the bench.

I have a Baikal BBF in 12ga 3" and 7X57R that shoots tight groups and has caused me no problems. I bought it for a truck gun and mounted a Weaver K4-60 B. Aside from being buttugly and feeling more like a club than a gun, it shoots where I point it, every time! It is the basest of their models with the mystery wood stock.

I am of the opinion that many have simply looked at these and determined they don't work. I've had mine for four years and have hauled it all over this desert and have done a lot of poachin...uhhh...varmint shooting with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Akshooter:
I see everyone here as had the same good luck on accuracy I have with my drillings and combo's.
I'm surprised no one here has mentioned the key factor in getting them to shoot ( let the barrel cool completly between shots) Or did someone mention that and I just read through the postings to quicly.

That is not a factor with the current system that Blaser uses. The BBLs are independently floated, and are not subject to the same bending forces cause by heat expansion as most others.
The BBF the most accurate of my light hunting rifles, and almost as accurate as my heavy BBL varmint rifles.

The Blasers aren't the old traditional combo guns with their grace and attention to detail. BUT, they shoot GREAT!

I am firmly of the opinion that they are the best hunting machines ever made. I love my traditional guns, but admire the Blaser for their function.

The newer Blaser, Valmet's & Krieghoff's with their separate barrels and muzzle adjsutments tend to be VERY accurate rifles that don't depict the vertical stringing the older solder-joined barrel Drillings & BBF's suffer from.

I've seen a number of ingenious solutions; like luv2's idea spraying barrels betweens shots, including a German Büchsenmacher who set-up a PVC piped ventilation system to cool barrels between shots quickly while sighting them in for Customers.

If you're after one group; then sometimes you can get away with the "Three-Shot Rush" for a group as quickly as re-loading and getting a solid shot afterwards entails. After the barrel heat sets in and gets into the solder joining the barrels with another, waiting/cooling is pretty much the only way to getting consistant groups without vertical stringing.

If you're patient or cool the barrels the older soldered-barreled Drillings & BBF's will shoot right up there with any other quality bolt or breach loader rifles as far as grouping and a consistant first shot out of a cold barrel goes.

I've had very good accuracy out of my Krieghoff drillings, and also out of my Valmet 412's...

Here's a 100 yard target from my Krieghoff Drilling in 30-06 loaded with my "one load for everything in this gun" load.



200 yards,



I can't complain about the accuracy of my 412's either!



As you can see on one of the targets, i even took the scope off and returned it for every shot to test the 412 scope mount repeatability...

I've found the 412's to be excellent guns at the range and also in the hunting fields!



DM

Here is a target from my Simson 12x12x8/57JRS.

It has a German Nickel 6 power scope. I used Sellier and Bellot ammunition.

I think this rifle would shoot a tighter group with a more powerful scope.

I have found the drillings and combo guns I have shot to be very accurate.
They are some of my most favorite hunting guns.

The Blaser D99 Duos [double rifle drillings] with their adjustable regulation are "scary" accurate.

I have noted that double rifles, drillings, and other combination arms with rifle barrels tend to be extremely accurate for the first two or three consecutive shots, which is generally plenty for hunting use.

The barrel assemblies are very stiff. This is at least partially reponsible for their fine accuracy, in addition to the very high quality of their workmanship and materials.

Yet due to the configuration of such designs, barrel heating tends to be quite uneven. This has the potential to cause subsequent shots, after the barrels have gotten hot, to go somewhere else than the center of the initial group (as compared to a properly bedded bolt action or single-shot rifle, for instance).

For real hunting how often do one shoot more than one shot?


I find that I more and more often could use a kipplauf or single shot of other sorts, thats all I need.

A drilling with a good scope in claw rings is a real hunters weapon.

Best regards Chris

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:
I have noted that double rifles, drillings, and other combination arms with rifle barrels tend to be extremely accurate for the first two or three consecutive shots, which is generally plenty for hunting use.

The barrel assemblies are very stiff. This is at least partially reponsible for their fine accuracy, in addition to the very high quality of their workmanship and materials.

Yet due to the configuration of such designs, barrel heating tends to be quite uneven. This has the potential to cause subsequent shots, after the barrels have gotten hot, to go somewhere else than the center of the initial group (as compared to a properly bedded bolt action or single-shot rifle, for instance).

quote:

Originally posted by Husqvarna M98:
For real hunting how often do one shoot more than one shot?

I find that I more and more often could use a kipplauf or single shot of other sorts, thats all I need.

A drilling with a good scope in claw rings is a real hunters weapon.

Best regards Chris

Chris, the fact that these days I tend to do ALL my hunting with a Ruger No. 1 or some kind of single-barreled flintlock is my endorsement of your position on how many shots a hunter needs....

Hi guys,

I know this a older post, but I have a couple of questions on this topic.

I shot a Zoli Az 2000 combination rifle in 12 gauge and 7X65R and as you have all said it is very accurate for the first shot. Which is all one really needs in the hunting field.

However, I am part of a hunting organization and we often have shoots which require three shots in in rapid succession (and a further 3 shot 10 minutes later, etc).

I guess what I really want to know is how far (approximately) does your point of impact wonder from your point of aim? When you fire a number of shots in succession.

Thanks
Steve

Steve

Each gun is an individual. You will just have to shoot the Zoli and see how it does.

There might be some movement, but the question would be would it be enough to effect hunting accracy?

N E 450 no2,

I actually have shot it "rapid fire" on a shoot recently. The shots climbed a significant distance up the page (50cm ~ 20 inches). I wanted to know if this could be considered normal for a comb. rifle?

Steve

A rise of 50 cm is a lot, not unheard of but a lot.

My Merkel drilling will rise some 20 cm during 3 shots,

/C

A friend at my hunting club has a BRNO 300 series in 22 Savage HP/12g that will put the first 2 shots touching at 100m, with the third some 10" low. and the 4th around 15" low.

While I was developing 250 gr TSX loads for my D99 - 9,3x74R and it realy did some nice groups

my sauer drilling from 1958 is chambered for 303 british,that is one of most accurate rifle up to 50 meters with iron sights,every time i go to range i see envy faces,5 times on road bull eye

My old Merkel drilling is easily the most accurate rifle I own. Here is a three shot group at 100yards.

Yes if you do over two shots in quick succession heat does cause the third shot to go up. But its hard for me to see when with a single shot I'd get a chance to shoot three shots in the field...

The wife and I both have Sauer 12x12x30/06 Drillings with scoes. They are accurate enough for any normal hunting...

However I have blaser double rifle drillings in 9,3x74Rx20ga and 308x20ga and an extra set of drilling barrels in 308/20ga...

The Blaser rifle barrels shoot like a target rifle...

Usually they are quite accurate on the first shot, if they are sighted in correctly. They should be sighted in over a long period, allowing barrels to cool.

May I add a comment. Although I do not own a drilling. In my youth a good friend of mine had a J P SAUER In 16x16x6.5x57. With open sights he could hit a quarter at 75 yards every time. Not only could he shoot but the rifle barrel was certainly up to the task.

My Krieghoff drilling with rifle barrel in 6,5x57R is very accurate.
If allowed to cool down between each shot (moulded barrels) I have several bullets and different loads that will shoot 1/2 inch at 100 meters.

Earlier I had a Churchill combo in .222 Rem and it was very accurate as well with most of what I feed it.