quote:

I just feel better with the .338 regardless of my preferences to a 06..

Kinda like someone taking up for old betsy......

I always wanted to build a 338/06 on a Remington 7600. Finally did it when the trunions
were available from Lumleyarms.com. my go to deer rifle ever since. Absolutely love the round.
2740 fps with a five shot average with 200 gr bullets inside 3/4".

I get 2700 plus with the 200 gr. Accubond in my 30-06 with a 22 inch barrel, you get the bigger hole and I get the better SD..thats a push..but I still like my 338-6 and my .338, so don't get me wrong..

That's damn good Ray.I can barely get 2800fps out of my 22" barreled 30-06 with a 165gr bullet.I got 2650fps with the 26" barreled 30-06 with a 200gr Accubond with H-4831.What kind of powder you using for that load?Heck 2800fps is what my 200gr loads are running out of my 338-06.

Lots of RL-19 or I can get 2750 with RL-22 with the 200 gr. Accubonds..both are a couple of grs. over book max..My goal was to get the same velocithy with a 200 gr. accubond that I do with a 180 gr. max load, in the o6 and that's what I got..

Ray,is that 22" barrel a custom barrel?What maker?What twist?

I have two 30-06s, a Win. pre 64 fwt 22" barrel and a very old Ruger 77, with a 24 " barrel I use the same load in both, get about 50 FPS less with the Ruger, but both handle the load well indeed...Both have factory original barrels.

BTW to the guy that said a nice 338-06 was for sale in the Classifeid, I recently purchased it and its a super nice rifle. I also purchased a 338 SS boat paddle stock for winter in the pacific NW recently, also on AR and its a beauty and shooting great.

I don't buy into what gun or caliber is the best, Within reason I place more importance on bullet selection than I do on caliber, Reasoning is something this thread has lost when one says a 35 Whelen is better than a 338 Win or 375 in performance that's just running ones head...Its a great round but no better or no worse than the .338-06, 8mm-06, 8x60, and not as potent as the 338 Win. 375 H&H, Taylor, Ruger and a host of others that hold more powder and shoot heavier bullets, Get a life!!

I have to agree with you Ray.Shot placement and bullet selection are two very important keys to a successful kill.I find it very interesting how some barrels are so much slower or faster than others with the same load 66.0grs of WXR and 160gr Accubond.I had a 24" barreled Ruger 1-V (2900fps) in a 7mag that was 200fps slower than my 26"barreled Ruger 1-B (3100fps)in also a 7mag.I also have a 24" Douglass barreled Remington 700 7mag that runs 50fps faster(3050fps) than my 26" barreled Remington 700 Sendero 7mag(3000fps).I also have a Remington 700 Long Range SS 7mag that is the fastest of all at (3150fps)Icould probably tweak the load for each rifle and get them to run a little closer to each other,but they all shoot the same load real well so I leave it at that.

The .35-06 (.35 Whelen) gives you a bigger, heavier bullet in a rifle with the same standard-length action.

Any perceptive difference in felt-recoil between the .338 and .35 in a hunting situation is minimal to non-existent, unless you're a once-a-year Fuddley.

Then all bets are off as to whether you'll actually get around to taggin' and baggin' anything with fur.

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
The .35-06 (.35 Whelen) gives you a bigger, heavier bullet in a rifle with the same standard-length action.

Any perceptive difference in felt-recoil between the .338 and .35 in a hunting situation is minimal to non-existent, unless you're a once-a-year Fuddley.

Then all bets are off as to whether you'll actually get around to taggin' and baggin' anything with fur.

But for equal or even less recoil than a 35 Whelen a person could go with a 338 WinMag and get more power, flatter trajectory and more rifle choices. The Win Mag can either use equal weight bullets with more velocity than the Whelen (though slight increase in recoil), or else lighter bullets in the WinMag with even more velocity, and less recoil than the Whelen.

Interested in the 338wm loads that get more velocity and less recoil than the 35 whelen.

For example a 210 NP.

quote:

Interested in the 338wm loads that get more velocity and less recoil than the 35 whelen.

The suggestion was to go with light weight bullets in 338, dropping below recoil of 35 Whelen with heavy bullets. E.g., try the .338" 185gn TTSX at 3000fps and up. In a rifle of equal weight, the 338 will be less recoil than a .358" 250gn at 2585fps. About 25 ft# vs. 27 ft#.

One can also go in the opposite direction, looking for an easy-carrying rifle and tolerating more bounce in the recoil department:
get a very lightweight rifle and load hot, eventually reaching recoil levels in 35-40 ft# range. E.g. a light Tikka 338WM, shooting 225gn TTSX at 2850fps for close to 40ft#.

Fury1, buy some reloading books, or work up some warm loads in a 338..Its no big trick to get 3000 FPS with a 210 Nosler, or 2900 FPS with a 225 gr. Accubond, or 2800 plus a tad with a 250 gr. partition. these have been my loads for quite a number of years, and yes they are over book max a grain or so, but they work and that's the rest of the story...Can't be done with a 30-06 case, because the 30-06 case will not hold as much powder, that's the bottom line in reloading..Hydell has not figure that out and never will, Do not drink his Koolaid, its poison!..

Were it this side of the Pacific, Nugman, I'd certainly be tempted. BTW, I like your way of nailing down bidders.

Ray
My question was about the statement of “more velocity and less recoil” than the Whelen. Just silly talk there as those don’t exist me thinks. (with same bullet weights) For every time one reduces bullet weight in the 338wm, you can do the same in the whelen. Well acquainted with the 338wm and the 35 Whelen and shade tree physics. I don’t question your loads at all or the magic of the 338wm.

https://n4lcd.com/calc/

Energy, Momentum and Taylor KO calculator

For what it's worth,but interesting anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
One thing I have to say about the Swedes they sure put ideas to the test before implementing them.

When the Green bullet movement started they put non lead containing monometals to the test against conventional bullets and their findings in terms of effectiveness was quite impressive. Their testing methodology was well thought out and executed.

I'm late to the thread and fairly off topic, but do you have a link to the study?

Ok, bottom line, the only difference in the 338-06 is the .338 Win. has a 50 to 100 yard range over the 338-06, all else is twaddle!

https://www.phoenixweaponry.com/int-suppressed-338-06

Saw this rifle and decided to revive the thread. Integrally suppressed .338-06

4-ixteen,
You forgot Sectional Density, therefore you results are flawed, the 338-06 will out penetrate the 35 Whelen, the 338-06 wins!

Yes, like you Im playing with paper figures and its all BS..Nobody can tell the difference in the 35 Whelen, 338-06 or the 30-0-6 for that matter when it hits the big ole bear...

Even my favorite the .338 Win and the 9.3x62 will cause any excitement other than on the internet or around the campfire after a few Sundowners!

The difference starts to show with the 375 H&H, but that wont set the world on fire..

I keep my horse tied out behind the bar, guess I better make my get away while I can!

This whole thread has lost its reason, and boiled down to choices by many, all of which hold reasonable opinions..with only a few going overboard..

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
The .35-06 (.35 Whelen) gives you a bigger, heavier bullet in a rifle with the same standard-length action.

Any perceptive difference in felt-recoil between the .338 and .35 in a hunting situation is minimal to non-existent, unless you're a once-a-year Fuddley.

Then all bets are off as to whether you'll actually get around to taggin' and baggin' anything with fur.

Then one can use a .40-70 rifle to create a bigger hole than a .35 Whelen, but it does not mean that a .45-caliber hole is better than a .35-caliber hole. What counts isn't the hole diameter by itself, but where the bullet creates the hole. The whole thing about this and that gun caliber being better than another amounts to mental masturbation.

Ray your stealing my thunder,(mental masturbation), but inasmuch as we have the same first name,I pledge my thunder to you, "in many and all" my posts. I got that one from Elmer Keith, just can't figure it out, but we can still use it anytime!

The .338-'06 closely replicates the .318 WR which is a classic African cartridge. Sending a 200 grain bullet down range at 2850+ fps is appealing.

I am planning on using my .338-'06 as a 'light' rifle for Africa, paired with my .404 Jeffery.

And if you wish to recreate the good old days then load a 250 at 2350 fps and watch the old girl knock down everything you point it at.

I've got a LH M70 sitting there just screaming for a new 338-06 barrel.

Alec, great choice for an African two rifle battery.

When I bought my 404 Jeffery, my first pair that I took to Zambia was 404/338WM. The next safari was 404/35 Whelen. And the last one was 404/375 H&H.

I bought a Dakota Classic Deluxe in 338-06 last year, and I think the 404/338-06 should be my next battery.

I think your two rifles will serve you very well!

I miss fredj338's postings here on AR. This was his choice as well, along with his 280 Rem. as his light rifle. I consider his battery to be an excellent choice!

Sometimes I take a (2) and sometimes a (3) rifle battery to Africa. The last time I took (3), it was 404/35 Whelen/7mm Rem. Mag. I think I should try fredj338's pretty soon, but like bluefish, I'll be using the 250 gr. NP in my 338-06. Fred would have used his favorite, a 210 gr. NP. Not a bad choice either.

For that matter,
a handloaded 416 Rigby and 338WM have made a nice combo, too.

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:
Alec, great choice for an African two rifle battery.

When I bought my 404 Jeffery, my first pair that I took to Zambia was 404/338WM. The next safari was 404/35 Whelen. And the last one was 404/375 H&H.

I bought a Dakota Classic Deluxe in 338-06 last year, and I think the 404/338-06 should be my next battery.

I think your two rifles will serve you very well!

I miss fredj338's postings here on AR. This was his choice as well, along with his 280 Rem. as his light rifle. I consider his battery to be an excellent choice!

Sometimes I take a (2) and sometimes a (3) rifle battery to Africa. The last time I took (3), it was 404/35 Whelen/7mm Rem. Mag. I think I should try fredj338's pretty soon, but like bluefish, I'll be using the 250 gr. NP in my 338-06. Fred would have used his favorite, a 210 gr. NP. Not a bad choice either.

I'm planning Namibia for Gemsbok (might take my 7mm RM) and Tanzania for Buffalo and some plains game - so the .404 and the .338-06. I'd love to take a shotgun - - maybe a Browning Superposed 20 -- but I don;t want to be loaded down with too much gear and ammo.

416Tanzan,

Absolutely!

I have also enjoyed your writing and rifle/caliber/cartridge choices as well. We think very much alike I believe. If I had to guess, your light rifle would be a 270 Win. vs. my 280 Rem....

I have a Dakota African with a beautiful stock in 416 Rigby that has never been hunted. After I had my Dakota Safari 404 Jeffery made, I came to really enjoy the smaller Safari stock, forend and wrist, plus (1) lb. lighter, that the Safari offered over the African. I have very small hands, (smaller than my wifes!) and the Safari just fit me better. Interested in a Dakota African 416 Rigby? It's for sale!

quote:

Originally posted by Alec Torres:

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:
Alec, great choice for an African two rifle battery.

When I bought my 404 Jeffery, my first pair that I took to Zambia was 404/338WM. The next safari was 404/35 Whelen. And the last one was 404/375 H&H.

I bought a Dakota Classic Deluxe in 338-06 last year, and I think the 404/338-06 should be my next battery.

I think your two rifles will serve you very well!

I miss fredj338's postings here on AR. This was his choice as well, along with his 280 Rem. as his light rifle. I consider his battery to be an excellent choice!

Sometimes I take a (2) and sometimes a (3) rifle battery to Africa. The last time I took (3), it was 404/35 Whelen/7mm Rem. Mag. I think I should try fredj338's pretty soon, but like bluefish, I'll be using the 250 gr. NP in my 338-06. Fred would have used his favorite, a 210 gr. NP. Not a bad choice either.

I'm planning Namibia for Gemsbok (might take my 7mm RM) and Tanzania for Buffalo and some plains game - so the .404 and the .338-06. I'd love to take a shotgun - - maybe a Browning Superposed 20 -- but I don;t want to be loaded down with too much gear and ammo.

Alec, I have taken an O/U Browning Citori Grade VI, or an O/U Weatherby Grade V, both in 12 ga. on safari a number of times. I too really like bird hunting, but as you said, one can get overloaded with firearms. I usually take two/three rifles when I take a shotgun, but one of the rifles is my wife's, and the rest is mine. Two people taking (3) or (4) firearms combined presents no problems with the authorities. And even if you take (4) firearms, it only requires two (2)-gun cases, one for each person.

Your (3) rifle battery of 404/338-06/7mmRM would be a real winner, and cover all of your bases on safari. My choice of bullets when I have taken this battery was 430NF/275SAF/175NP respectively. The 275SAF was used in my 338WM however. I like heavy-for-caliber bullets. In the 7mmRM and 338WM, I therefore use these heavy bullets. In a 338-06 and a 280 Rem., I prefer a 250NP and 160TTBBC respectively. YMMV.

Good luck on your next safari!!

On 338 bullets the 225TTSX will equal or better the penetration of the 250NP. (I used the 250NP happily for years in the 80's in Africa. We have yet to recover a 225TTSX from game, 100% pass through, impressive results.)

A newer bullet to consider is the 213 Hammer Hunter. I really like this but have not yet used it on game. It has high BC, accuracy, allowing maximal velocities with a new band design, deep penetration, and expanding-explosive petals. The best of several worlds together.

Thinking back on many safaris throughout Africa, my most used combo was the 404 or 416 Rem paired with the 338 Win. It worked extremely well, even in a tight spot the 338 Win came through like a champ on a couple of occasions..Proved a good idea to carry 4 rounds of solids in .338 Win..in your pocket just in case.

416Tanzan, Thanks for the info! It's always good to hear about the latest in technology. But I'm old and getting older, and as I stated previously, I like heavy-for-caliber bullets. Your bullet suggestions are getting even lighter! I usually use what has worked for me in the past. If something doesn't work or begins to fail me, I'm ready to start looking. But so far at least, these 'hfc' bullet weights have not failed me, so I'll probably keep using them. Besides, I have a wee-bit-o ammo to use up before I go the Happy Hunting Grounds.

But I thank you Sir for the info, and to hear what has worked for you! An old dog like me can always learn new tricks...

Surefire, I hear you on heavy bullets.

I've put an old 275Speer and a 250 NP .338" in
buffalo, and I've used the old 300grain Barnes. Yes, heavy for caliber work(ed) nicely.

However, I noticed that 250gn partions often peeled from the nose back to the partition and did not exit. Were they an excellent bullet? Yes, and certainly more to be trusted than a 250gnSierra that sometimes separated cup and core. But monos will out-penetrate at equal weight and when going lighter in weight they give better trajectory for equal or better penetration. The 213gr Hammer Hunter that I mentioned probably penetrates better than all the expanding bullets mentioned above, because after blowing the petals a flat-nose cylinder results penetrates as a solid and does great damage as a full flat-nose solid. I don't have any in Africa to test and haven't used one in NA yet, either.

Is there difference in all the above for hunting? Probably not, at least 98-99% of the time. A hunter should go with what provides confidence and shoots accurately in the rifle.

PS: because the 338-06 gives up some capacity and velocity, I would look hard at the 213gn Hammer Hunter and see if it can be safely loaded to 2800fps. Its sinusoidal driving band design generally allows loadings to higher velocities than other bullets. and I like hunting at 2800fps. Their reputation is also as 'easy to load', not finicky with powders or seating depth.

Here is something recent from the Hammer website:
"rl23 would be my go to. The 174g Hammer Hunter would be a great bet. We are loading 181g Hammer Hunters in our 300wm's with rl23 and Gunwerks brass at very good vel over 3200fps. Makes a great combo for normal range hunting out to 900y if you get that bug.

Read more: http://hammerbullets.boards.ne...page=1#ixzz67miBAaZG"

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:
416Tanzan,

Absolutely!

I have also enjoyed your writing and rifle/caliber/cartridge choices as well. We think very much alike I believe. If I had to guess, your light rifle would be a 270 Win. vs. my 280 Rem....

I have a Dakota African with a beautiful stock in 416 Rigby that has never been hunted. After I had my Dakota Safari 404 Jeffery made, I came to really enjoy the smaller Safari stock, forend and wrist, plus (1) lb. lighter, that the Safari offered over the African. I have very small hands, (smaller than my wifes!) and the Safari just fit me better. Interested in a Dakota African 416 Rigby? It's for sale!

Several fun musings.
Yes, on my own I would probably go 270Win for a light-caliber rifle. (Our 338Win Tikka is already "light", and lightweight for carry.) However, for grandkids I have purchased a Kimber Hunter in 308Win. It is still in the US needing load development and then all the paperwork to bring it to TZ. The Kimber is small, even lighter than a Tikka. Why 308? The 24" barrels on the Kimber Hunter (270 and 30--06) just looked too thin and long, so I went with the 22"-barrel models. Those were all short action and the heaviest short-action caliber available was a 308Win. 308Win should be pretty good on a range of animals in TZ, though not any better than a 270 or 280. And if a grandkid wanted an animal that needed more than those, then they would also need more than a 30 cal in my opinion.

On the Dakota in 416Rigby that is tempting and sounds like an amazing rifle. OTH, my next dangerous game rifle will probably be a downsizing. We still have a Rigby in TZ and one in the USA.

I will "soon" reach the 70 milestone and lighter carry appeals to me. Less than 6000 ft-recoil might be appreciated, too. We have a 500AcRl Nyati that produces 6500-7000 ft# muzzle energy and our Rigby handloads are all over 6000, basically 416 Weatherby loads. So what appeals to me as a downsize would be a 416Ruger. That rifle would be smaller/lighter than our CZ Rigbys and will probably weigh a little less than our 500 (built on a Ruger Hawkeye). The 416 Ruger (maybe 330gn at 2600fps) should still get some respect from the animals in the forest around here.

416Tanzan,

I hear you. I am just a little over a year from turning 70 myself. But Ray would consider us 'kids', so I'm good with all that!

Well, that 213 Hammer Hunter sounds like an interesting proposition!

Alec,

You said you were interested in the 200 gr. bullets for your 338-06. Which one(s)? This bullet 416Tanzan has mentioned may be a good round for you, and close to your desired weights. I would have suggested the 210 gr. NP if you like the lighter weight bullets in 338 caliber. Maybe try them both out?

I only shoot Nosler Custom 338-06 NP ammo in my 338-06, and I am equally stocked in the 250 & 210 gr. ammo. They are so far, fairly accurate in my rifle (Dakota). The best groups I am getting with the 210s is 1" at a 100 yards, and 1/2" with the 250s, 3-shot groups. They 'may/may not' shoot as well in your rifle.

Nosler makes this ammo in both NP & AB bullets in the following weights: 180, 200, 210, 225, & 250. Lots from which to choose!