The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles .338-'06 Opinions?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
There is nothing wrong for the OP to want a .338-06. More than likely every one of us has more than one rifle, and the ones we keep are our favorite. But for some reason one wants to influence others on what gun they should have based on the guns one has. There are several wonderful cartridges that owe their "birth" to the .30-06, and the .338-06 is one of them. There are all kinds of .33 bullets, from fast-expanding to slow-expanding the OP can use. | |||
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Nothing at all wrong with wanting other rifles and caliber. I have been doing that for 50 years. That is how we learn Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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The 30-'06 is a great cartridge. I owned one for years. But with the overlap with my 7mm RM I sold it because I wasn't using it much. I have a .404 Jeff being built now. I also have 6.5 X 55 and two .257 Roberts (Dakota 76 and a Ruger No. 1). The ,338 splits the difference between the 7mm and the .404. I like the idea of having the ability to handle heavier bullets (200, 210, 225 grains) without a lot of weight and recoil. I figured it would be very useful for elk and PG. The .375 is also a great cartridge, but I decided to go with the .404 Jeff for really big game. Looked at the 8mms and at the 9.3 as well. But there are lots of .338 bullet choices and the .338-'06 seemed logical to me. AT | |||
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Good, logical choice. DRSS(We Band of Bubba's Div.) N.R.A (Life) T.S.R.A (Life) D.S.C. | |||
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You are right .458, specially coming from you since you have lots experience. My favorite calibers are the .30-06, and .338WM. For all my hunting in Alaska, which primarily is moose, I have gotten used to the .338WM from the moment I started hunting after retiring from the military in Alaska. But for a few years already I have been thinking about a .338-06. The "want" crosses my mind every now and then  | |||
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Well, you’ve got a great three rifle battery starting there: 404 Jeffery, 338-06, 7mmRM.  | |||
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Yes, nothing like a 270 Win, 338 WM and 416 Ruger +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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How dead is "dead"? Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me". John 14:6 | |||
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Want and need are to different things. The want is why I own why more than I need. | |||
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All of which would be designed with the 338 Winchester in mind. | |||
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"design tolerance windows" aren't that tight. The difference btwn a 338-06 and 338 WM is about 125 fps. Most bullets have a minimum impact velocity of ~1800 fps. Some 1600 some in the high teens. Using 1800 fps with a range of typical BCs that means a 338 win mag is going to go sub min impact between 595-720 yards depending on BC and construction and 338-06 between 525-640 yards depending on BC and construction. I don't know anybody who when choosing a rifle with a "design parameter" 400+ yards as part of the "sweet spot" would start with a 338 WM or a 338-06. Even more importantly, I don't anybody who wants a 338-06 who would feel "short changed" because they need to limit their shots to 500 yards. All of the above doesn't even consider the challenges of being able to hit a 10" target consistently at 500 yards under field conditions and the ethics of how consistent you should be to undertake that shot. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Speer No.12 data, 225gr SBT - .338 WM: 2981 fps .338-06: 2678 fps -------------------- +303 fps | |||
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I used hodgdon data across all 3 product lines and I look at the typical upper end velocities across a number of powders 225 grain bullets out of 338 WM are all just north of 2800 fps. For the 338-06 they are all in the 2675 range. That would be 125 fps Even if I use Speer current data picking the best for each the numbers are 2944 and 2694. That's 250 not 303. The Barnes current data is 141 fps difference. So even using 250 fps delta with Speer's current numbers, the 338-06 is hits 1800 fps at 565 yards and 338 WM at 703 yards. The conclusions I made above still hold true. Nobody spec'ng out a 450 plus yard rifle is going to start with either of those cartridges. So did you want to have a intelligent conversation about this or just go cherry pick numbers?  Because if you really want to do it right you would throw out 200 and 250 grain bullets Average all the published data across 210,215 & 225 bullets weights throwing out the high and the low velocities in each category and I doubt you are going to end up with a 250 fps difference. I also suspect your going to see the 338-06 drop below 1800 fps somewhere beyond 500 yards. So the idea that .338 caliber bullets are designed for 338 win mags and that is somehow a disadvantage to the 338-06 is silly. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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265gr AB LR at 2700 fps, .338 WM long range performance. Probably about a 250 fps muzzle speed advantage over the .338-06 -  | |||
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You rang? It is exactly looking for a 400-yard rifle-that- hits-hard that led me to the 338 WM in the first place, some 35 years ago! Yes, the good ole 338 Winchester Magnum, one of those cartridges. What shoots flat, for a 7"-drop at 300 yards (2" sight-in/100yd), and hits hard enough to take down anything that I would meet in the African forest ('cepting ele and hippo)? The 338 WM with 250gn NP back then and now the 225gn TTSX. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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4sixteen, You're still missing my point. Nobody debates that 338 WM has more velocity. When comparing two cartridges against each other, choosing one's strength against the other's weakness is just playing games. 416T, ' I was referring to today and the rifle's primary purpose. 35 years ago, we did not have the 338 edge, 338-378, the RUM, or the Nosler. FYI - per velocities in the Barnes website starting at 2695 338-06 2" high @ 100 is 8.1 low @ 300 delivers 2149 of energy @ 400. The 338 WM starting at 2816 is delivering 2371 of energy. Not sure any animal would notice the difference. Impact velocities are 2074 and 2179. The original point of my comparison was the statement of 338-06 is somehow lacking because 338 bullets are "designed" for the 338 WM and not the 338-06 and therefore it is lacking. That just doesn't hold water. You guys like your 338 WMs. Enjoy them. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Then shooters with the 300 Winchester are sure wasting their time. With the lower expansion ration the gap from the 30/06 to the 300 magnums should be even less than 125 f/s. I guess the 270 Wby would be close to zero gain over the 270 Winchester, perhaps it even has a lower muzzle velocity than the 270 Winchester  | |||
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Here's another cherry instead of a razzberry - Speer No.12 data, 275gr - .338 WM: 2631 fps .338-06: 2394 fps ---------------------- +237 fps | |||
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https://www.amazon.com/Merriam...a%2Caps%2C196&sr=8-3 https://www.amazon.com/Steps-I...288&s=gateway&sr=8-4 Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Bob Hagel (remember this gent?) in an article he wrote lists 2789 fps muzzle speed for a 250gr bullet from a .338 WM Ruger M77 (same model as mine). That's more like it. Close to a 300 fps (not 125 fps) advantage over the .338-06. | |||
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Good for Bob Hagel and his 1 rifle. Now if there are 10 data points in published load data showing 2700+ fps for a 250 grn bullet, I might be more convinced. Hodgdon 2518-2657 Barnes 2517-2637 Accurate Arms 2547-2665 Speer 1 load at 2764 1 load at 2693 everything else 2526-2665 Nosler 1 load at 2780. 2 loads at 2738-2745. When I do analysis I try and use consistent/repeatable proven data. So if you are making a decision, do you make the decision on 5-6 data points or 25 plus data points. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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The 338 Win Mag without a doubt is going to beat the 338-06 because it has a larger case to work with.But by how much it really depends on other factors.Powder load,bullet type and rifle barrel are the biggest factors.You really don't know what your load is going to run until you shoot it over a chronograph. Here is some load data.Just because it's in the book at that speed doesn't mean you will get that speed,it could be more or less.    | |||
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Well, I have gone through the mental gymnastics on .338 WM vs. .338-'06. The .338 WM is capable of more MV, for sure. But how much is enough? I have never had to take a shot at game that is much over 300 yards. On elk, I have never needed to shoot over about 200 yards. Not saying that a longer shot will never happen, but it hasn't yet. I have Bob Hagel's books and have read them from cover to cover. So I am familiar with his ideas on velocity. The other factors to consider are rifle weight and recoil. In both cases less is more. For the type of hunting I envision using this rifle for I do not want a rifle weighing more that about eight pounds. MAYBE 8-1/4 lbs. The .338 WM has fairly sharp recoil and I have not convinced myself that a hundred or two ft/sec. of extra velocity will buy me much for my applications. I think the .338-'06 is pretty close in performance to the old British 318, which was a favorite rifle caliber for non dangerous thin-skinned game of any size. That's pretty convincing. This discussion has, so far, been very interesting and I learned some from it. | |||
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Yes, a .338-06 is not the .338WM. I look at it more like a "souped-up .30-06," and there is nothing wrong with that. Both the Speer and Nosler online rifle data have several hand-loads for it. | |||
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Ray, Everything you said is valid information. As I stated before, comparing 250 grain bullets is not really an appropriate comparison. If someones primary purposes is to shoot 250 grain bullets, they wouldn't choose a 338-06 start with. If someones' primary purpose is to hunt at 350-450 yards they would choose a 338-06 either. When I stated 125 fps above that was by "eyeballing" Hodgdon data. I was wrong its actually more like 143 fps. See below. Just for grins, I went back and analyzed 112 loads across 210, 215, 225 grain weights Barnes, Speer, Hodgdon data. Threw out the high and low for each. Difference for 210 grn 154 fps, 215 grn 142 fps, 225 grn 134 fps. I don't do analysis or make decisions based on the "10% of outlier" data. I have been thinking about building a 284 win because it is great longer range (350-500 yards) cartridge. But guess what - there is not a bit of practical difference between it and my 30-06 shooting 168 LR bullets. Guys who love 338 WM, I am very happy for you. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Of course! | |||
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I apologize, I deleted my previous post. I do agree with you about some of the issues. But relating to bullet weight, all depends on the type of hunt one does. For example (and depending on the game hunted), the heavier bullets work quite well at closer ranges such as in forested areas, and the lighter ones for longer distances. Since a great number of .338 bullets are designed-for the lack of a better word, "tough", some are still designed relatively "soft." If I were to use the .338-06 to hunt bears or any other large animal at close range from a stand, my preference would be a 250-grain or heavier Sierra, Speer, Woodleigh, and so on. But if I were to take lung shots on smaller deer in the open, then I would choose some of the lighter weight Berger bullets that are designed to penetrate a few inches and then expand rapidly. Another option would be to go light on bullet weight x distance in order for the hunting bullet to expand. For another type of hunting in Africa, take a look at the reasons for design-concepts of another .338-06 variant, the .338 Sabi: http://www.sabirifles.co.za/338sabi.htm I have hunted and killed moose with my .338WM rifles using the 250-grain A-Frame and Nosler Partition, 230-grain FS, 225-grain TBBC, and the 225-grain Barnes X. The heavier bullets create more felt recoil, specially at the shooting range So I have settled for a lighter but tough bullet, the Barnes .225-grain TTSX. My self-imposed limit is 300 yards, but only from a solid rest (I just pass the shot if I have any doubts).------ On another note, I remember an article about the .30-06 and guided hunts of large bears in the coastal areas of Alaska. The article was published by the NRA, and the advise was to use the heavier .30-caliber bullets the get maximum bullet performance at close range. The .30-06 has been used in Alaska what it seems forever, and remains quite popular. | |||
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I killed my last 8 elk with a 338 Win. I used 225 and 250 gr. Nosler partition and 225 gr. Barnes TSX bullets. I could have killed all but one just as easily with the .338-06. One was about 400 yards, which is stretching it with either .338 in my opinion. I hunted plains game on 3 trips to Africa with the .338 Win. and the 9.3x62. Again, I think the .338-06 would do just fine. If you like the .338-06, use it and practice with it. I think it is more important to use a quality bullet and put it in the correct spot rather than worry about what cartridge it comes from. | |||
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You are right about that. | |||
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Just for grins, I ran the same comparison with 250s and the sames source material plus nosler because they have some hot 250 grain loads. Average difference 168 fps. Even if we push your self imposed to limit 350 yards... at 350 yards the 338 WM w/250 .431 BC is travelling 2010 fps and delivers 2242 ft lbs, 15.2 inches of drop from a 200 yd zero at 350 yards the 338-06 w/250 .431 BC is travelling 1850 fps and delivers 1897 ft lbs 19.2 inches of drop from a 200 yd zero Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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The 338-06 cartridge itself will handle game just fine, personally id rather have a 338 Win Mag if it was between the two. I’ve been up and down every 338 ladder and the only two I’d pick today are the 338 WM and 340 Wby (in a well thought out rifle, not a MK V). For me the 338s rapidly run out of practicality on both ends of the spectrum. I am back from a long Hiatus... or whatever. Take care. smallfry | |||
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| One of Us |
If you did it with both sighted the same at 100 yards, say 1.5" or 2" high at 100 yards then difference at 200 yards would be greater. In the real world and shooting lots of animals the 300 Winchester is much flatter shooting than the 30/06 and that is a very close comparison to the 338/06 and 338 Winchester. Personally I would prefer a 30/06 over the 338/06 and for a couple of reasons. The first is trajectory. If have to go to hell for the number of kangaroos, pigs and goats I have shot then I will be there for a long time. I find in the real world that velocities in the 2800 plus area are much better than slower stuff. There also seems to be a jump when you get to the 3100-3400 area. As to big game, does anyone shoot enough to see a difference. Look at the AR African forum. One bloke drops a buffalo on the spot with a 375 while another bloke almost wears out the barrel of his 500 A2 getting his buffalo down. Of course shoot 20 animals or more and things would change. I really think the 338/06 is for people who just want one. | |||
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| One of Us |
This site has some good info on it.Velocities are a little lower than what I get. https://www.ballisticstudies.c...338-06+A-Square.html In the 338-06 with 180gr Accubonds,I have no problem reaching 3000fps.With 200gr Ballistic Tips and Accubonds,2800fps is the norm and with 210gr Nosler Partition around 2700fps.I think the drop in velocity has more to do with the bullet design than the extra ten grains of weight.I think for shooting most game inside 300yds or so,the 180-210gr bullets probably get the best overall out of the 338-06.The energy obtained is similar to a 300 Win Mag with like bullet weights.A fairly flat shooter inside 300yds too. | |||
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| One of Us |
"If you did it with both sighted the same at 100 yards, say 1.5" or 2" high at 100 yards then difference at 200 yards would be greater." Difference is .8 inches. I really think the 338/06 is for people who recognize that: 1) using a quality 225 grain bullet 2) at a very achievable 2625 fps 3) can zero their rifle at 200 yards 4) and using modern reticles 5) can deliver 2000+ ft lbs of energy @ 2000+ fps @ 400 yards 6) if they have the shooting skills 7) and if their shooting skills or ethics compel them to limit their shots to 350 yards or 300 yards or even less; the practical difference between the 338WM and 338-06 is  Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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| One of Us |
I think people get way too invested in their choice of caliber to the point where they are practically offended and feel a need to defend themselves. I've spent time with the 7x57 and 30 06 and have killed quite few deer with both. I love the 06 I really do but view the x57 as totally adequate especially as I envision myself in my 70s which thankfully is a long time from now. I like the 375 but have been messing with a 9.3x62 and short of truly heavy DG imagine it is relatively the same thing but again can be made up a little trimmer and lighter while maintaining the smash for which it is noted. It's all in fun, folks. We ought to remember this. | |||
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| One of Us |
I think that 2600-2625fps is fair for the 338-06 and a 225grain bullet. For comparison, I would use 2800-2825fps for the 338 WinMag. So what is the difference? A little more all-around for the WM. A little more punch at whatever distance, a little more impact speed for higher percentage of DRT, a little less drop at 300 yards. To put numbers on that "little more" I used 2625fps vs 2825fps and the 225TTSX with its excellent BC of .514, shot through a visual tunnel where the bullet does not rise more than 2.1" above the line-of-sight. The results (JBM using Litz'figures): 338-06: - - 2625fps - - 225gn TTSX, impact at 300 yards: - - 2190 fps - - 2395 ft# velocity is below 2600fps at 16 yards (this assumes that +2600fps has a positive effect on DRT) drop at 300: -8.7" 338WM: - - 2825fps - - 225gn TTSX impact at 300 yards, - - 2371 fps - - 2807 ft# velocity is below 2600fps at 145 yards (this assumes that +2600fps has a positive effect on DRT) drop at 300: -6.3" So for a tad extra recoil, neglibile when hunting, one gets 2.4" less drop at 300 yards, 130 more yards above 2600fps impact velocity and 412 more ft# at 300 yards. If that's what one wants to carry down field--I would go for it. A Tikka in 338WM weighs about 6.5 lbs. With a lighter scope its about 7.5 lbs. It's really nice to carry and is pretty impressive on game. But I could understand a Ruger American in 338-06, too. I'd hunt with either and just make do. PS on Ruger American: I would expect a 375 Ruger and 338 WM before they will come out with a 338-06. Mossberg already has a very inexpensive rifle in 375 Ruger, and available in laminate if one wants. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I have caught the .338/06 bug. Trying to find a reputable gunsmith in Texas ( prefer west tx ) to rebarrel my .30-06 abolt. But I have found a local 338/06 I may get in the mean time. "Let me start off with two words: Made in America" | |||
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225 grain 338 has same SD as 186 grain 30 calibre. 200 grain has same SD as 166 grain 30 calibres. Thus 338 Win equals and beats (slightly) 30/06 for velocity. The 338 in rifles like the M70 comes in at same price and weight and models as the 7mm Rem and 300 Win. In these rifle weights the 375 has quite a jolt in the recoil and cost a lot more. I am not a fan of the 338 Win as I like stuff like the 338 RUM, 338/378, 30/378 etc. However, I think the 338/06 is similar to the 338 RUM and 338/378 in the sense the 338/06 is for the guns and ammo enthusiast. For the average bloke who wants more than the 30/06 in bore size and bullet weight the 338 Winchester is the answer. For those who don't think the 338/06 is for the guns and ammo enthusiast then check availability of factory rifles and factory ammo in 338/06. | |||
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| One of Us |
Actually it's not. For the 'average bloke' who's looking to upgrade in lethality from his 30-06, the next most ballistically logical and cost-effective move is to the .35 Whelen, not the 338WM. Heck, with RCBS forming dies, said bloke can even make .35 Whelen ammo from his old 30-06 cases. The 'poor man's magnum' made right there at home, at said bloke's reloading bench. Plus, those heavy .35-diameter bullets (250gns+) have proven over time to be stone-cold killers on the really big animals - moose & caribou, which frankly ain't that hard to kill, but more importantly the big bears. I mean, does anybody read and research this stuff anymore? That veteran Alaskan hunter, John Barness, is constantly stressing the killing-power of the .35-caliber cartridges in just about every other issue of Rifle magazine, as well as in Handloader too. All The Best ... | |||
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| One of Us |
Care to list the factory rifles in 35 Whelen. Ammo and availability. The average bloke uses factory ammo and if he does reload he does not neck up or down. | |||
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