I have owned/own 300 H&H, 8mm RM, 338-06, 338WM, 35 Whelen, 9.3x64, 375 H&H, 404 Jeffery.

I have hunted with them all. All I have left is the 300, 338-06, 9.3x64, and 375.

I have my personal reasons, but I really like the 300, 338-06, and 375.

Anyone would be hard pressed to convince me cartridge XYZ is incredibly better, or significantly worse for my/most hunting needs.

All within reason of course.

quote:

Originally posted by Alec Torres:
Considering a rifle in this caliber. I have no experience with the cartridge, but it is appealing. Any opinions as a hunting round for plains game and elk?

Or would I be better off with a .338 WM?

Thanks,

AT

This is stated, assuming you are a handloader. I think that it’s a good round, but you can always load the .338 WM down to 338-06 velocities or even 338 Federal velocities.....but you can’t load them to match the .338 WM. memtb

quote:

Originally posted by Double BC:
I had one and sold it, If I were to do it again I would go 35 Whelen all the way. Way better round.

Yep. Just not seeing where the .338-06 gets anywhere close to the .35 Whelen (technically the '35-06').

Those .35"-diameter 225gn & 250gn bullets hit like sledgehammers.

To me the appeal of the .338-'06 is a fairly light, trim rifle firing a heavier bullet (200 gr. @ 2800 fps) with less recoil than a .338 WM. Sort of a 'tweener round that would do what I need inside 300 yards.

To me, it is +150-200 fps over old .318 WR, which was very effective and popular. Very impressive 'tweener.

I used to own a Belgian Browning .338 Win Mag. I've never hunted with it. It was too powerful for everything in the lower 48. The 7MM Rem Mag is more that enough gun for all that roams the lower 48, & it's recoil is far more user friendly.

I do like .338 caliber. Were I to buy another, it'd be a .338-'06. There's no practical difference between it and the .338 Win Mag. And I prefer 22" barreled rifles.

If I lived in Alaska where an encounter with huge griz might occur frequently, I'd go with a Marlin .45/70 Gov't. There is a substantial difference between the .338 Win Mag and a properly loaded .45/70 Gov't.

Back in the mid 70's, I read a lot of Keith and I wanted one of those 338/06s! I had a nice Mod 700 7mm Rem Mag, but I liked the "idea" of the 338 cal. I then read about the .338/.270 HGT ( a .270 necked up and Ackleyed) and I loved the look of the Improved round, ha. In the mid 90's I had an opportunity to go to South Africa. I was looking for a nice donor rifle to get rebored ( I finally had some money!) and I came upon a 1988 Mod 700 Classic in .35 Whelen. Well, by then I had read a lot of Gary Sitton and I liked what I read about the 35 Whelen Ackley Improved. So, "fate" got me started on the .35 caliber. I used the then available 250X at 2550 av. man oh man,it was a killer. while I have had many mediums since, come and gone, I am back to a great "compromise", another Mod 700 Classic in .338 winMag is headed my way. They are very light and handy, yet very easy to control. To "me" that is. One time I had one in .375 H&H and gave it to my friend in south Africa in 2002. It too was light but easy to shoot. I can load the 338WM up or down, but its the rifle its in that I like the most. I just like the "looks" of an Improved '06 cased round and have used many. I even tried to work with a 338/280 but it was a pain to fireform those nickle cases they used then. I needed the headstamp for customs, so just had that particular rifle converted to 338WM. I used/loved the 338 Federal, 340w, .338 RUM, 9.3x62, but I could have killed everything with a simple 338/06. Or a 30-06 with the right bullet. But I love the way medium calibers "thump" them, ha. So many choices, so little time...and money!

I looked at several things when I decided to go with the 338-06.I didn't want to go really big,but I wanted something that was as good or better than a 30-06 with 180gr or a 7mag with 175gr bullets with similar ballistics and velocity.I think the 338-06 does that with 200gr bullets.When you compare the three,I think the bigger bore is going to have an edge as the the thumper.This picture shows the difference in diameters.The 30-06 at the top,338-06 center and the 7mag bottom.

quote:

Originally posted by Baldhunter:
I looked at several things when I decided to go with the 338-06.I didn't want to go really big,but I wanted something that was as good or better than a 30-06 with 180gr or a 7mag with 175gr bullets with similar ballistics and velocity.I think the 338-06 does that with 200gr bullets.When you compare the three,I think the bigger bore is going to have an edge as the the thumper.This picture shows the difference in diameters.The 30-06 at the top,338-06 center and the 7mag bottom.

Baldhunter,

Good pictures for comparison.

“A picture is worth a thousand words”.

Can you toss in a 35 Whelen for comparison?

I don't have those cartridges,but maybe someone else can show the bore differences between the 30-06,338-06,35 Whelen and the 9.3x62.All those are based off the 30-06 case and all are great rounds.Just shows how good the 30-06 case is.

quote:

Originally posted by Baldhunter:
I don't have those cartridges,but maybe someone else can show the bore differences between the 30-06,338-06,35 Whelen and the 9.3x62.All those are based off the 30-06 case and all are great rounds.Just shows how good the 30-06 case is.

Amen.

The 9.3x62 is not based on 30/06 case. You can use 30/06 brass to make 9.3x62 brass, but I have read it bulges the base.

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:

quote:

Originally posted by Double BC:
I had one and sold it, If I were to do it again I would go 35 Whelen all the way. Way better round.

Yep. Just not seeing where the .338-06 gets anywhere close to the .35 Whelen (technically the '35-06').

Those .35"-diameter 225gn & 250gn bullets hit like sledgehammers.

I can tell you from having owned rifles in both cartridges, any perceived difference you're seeing is all in your head.

400 yard ballistics.
.35 Whelen 250 grain Hornady SP 2,600 FPS MV
-9.4 MOA drop, 4.6 MOA windage, 1617 Ft-Lbs Energy

.338-06 250 grain Hornady SP 2,600 FPS MV
-8.9 MOA drop, 3.9 MOA windage, 1819 Ft-Lbs Energy

.35 Whelen 225 grain NAB 2700 FPS MV
-8.1 MOA drop, 3.7 MOA windage 1740 Ft-Lbs Energy

.338-06 225 grain NAB 2700 FPS MV
-7.5 MOA drop, 2.8 MOA widnage, 2089 Ft-Lbs Energy

So on paper the .338-06 Wins, real life there isn't enough difference to matter IMO. Where the .35 Whelen really comes up lacking to the .338 is in bullet selection, there is plenty for you to find something that works well. There are just a lot more to choose from for hunting big game in the .338 diameter. If a guy wants to shoot mainly pistol plinking bullets and cast lead, then the Whelen is probably a better choice.

How about we take 12 cow elk have them stand quartering away and shoot 4 each with a:

200 grn NP 8x57 (loaded to modern pressures)

210 grn NP 338-06

225 grn NP 35 whelen

In exactly the same spot, film each one and see how many people can accurately identify which animal was shot with what?

We could even do it in a lightly snow covered field and measure distance and blood trail.

All of this mental masturbation asserting superiority of one cartridge over the other is about give me a virtual orgasm.

I think I will light a cigarette.

T1, there you go using those pesky facts instead of emotion! 8mm/06, 338/06, 35 Whelen are all great performing mid level cartridges that, for most situations, are more than powerful enough to do the job. My favorite is the original 330/06 or 318 WR. I used it in Africa and it worked perfectly, I would not hesitate to use it on any NA game. I don't load down my magnums and don't magnumize my standards. Everything has its place, and the standard case medium bores do an outstanding job with no muss and fuss.

quote:

Originally posted by taylorce1:
I can tell you from having owned rifles in both cartridges, any perceived difference you're seeing is all in your head.

400 yard ballistics.
.35 Whellen 250 grain Hornady SP 2,600 FPS MV
-9.4 MOA drop, 4.6 MOA windage, 1617 Ft-Lbs Energy

.338-06 250 grain Hornady SP 2,600 FPS MV
-8.9 MOA drop, 3.9 MOA windage, 1819 Ft-Lbs Energy

.35 Whelen 225 grain NAB 2700 FPS MV
-8.1 MOA drop, 3.7 MOA windage 1740 Ft-Lbs Energy

.338-06 225 grain NAB 2700 FPS MV
-7.5 MOA drop, 2.8 MOA widnage, 2089 Ft-Lbs Energy

So on paper the .338-06 Wins, real life there isn't enough difference to matter IMO. Where the .35 Whelen really comes up lacking to the .338 is in bullet selection, there is plenty for you to find something that works well. There are just a lot more to choose from for hunting big game in the .338 diameter. If a guy wants to shoot mainly pistol plinking bullets and cast lead, then the Whelen is probably a better choice.

This paper comparison is appropriate but it must be done fairly.

For example, a 35 Whelen 250gn at 2600fps will operate at a lower pressure than a 338-06 250gn at 2600fps. If they are allowed to run at the same pressure, the 35 caliber will produce slightly more velocity than the 33 caliber. That is simple physics for the results of slightly larger diameters.

Having said the above and asked for a tighter, fairer comparison, I would add that there wouldn't be any practical hunting difference between a 33-06 and a 35-06. A person can use whichever rifle they may find with either of the calibers.

If I wanted an inexpensive, lightweight, easy-carrying, accurate rifle in 33 to 35 caliber, I would pick up a Tikka in 338WinMag. It is a remarkable package for someone looking to thump elk, moose, and plains game. 33 is a great caliber.

More than just energy calculations need to be considered to see why some including myself believe the 35 caliber version hits harder.

Bullet diameter or actually cross-sectional area which is proportional to the square of diameter is a factor as well as energy and sectional density which this calculation takes into consideration -


https://www.chuckhawks.com/rif...lling_power_list.htm

Can you imagine a world with only a handful of big game cartridges? Campfires would be boring. We'd have to talk about Mike Trout's massive contract (he could've gotten more), or wives and credit cards, or, gulp, politics. It's fun to discuss merits of big game cartridges. Most come and go (short magnums were the most recent fad cartridges to go to where fad cartridges go when they're no longer chic). Some have been in it for the long haul because they work (.45/70 Gov't, .30-30 Win, '06, .270 Win, .308 Win).

I'm ridin' with Atkinson on this drive. An '06 will kill just as dead as any other cartridge. In fact, when the US Army came out with the '06, there was no need for competitors. And no, I don't own an '06. I didn't have brains when brains would have been a tremendous benefit.

We've all heard stories (Paul Punyanized fables) of big game traveling internationally after taking many rounds of huge caliber bullets. The illogical inference is hunters needed more gun. But science was and remains in direct conflict with illogical inferences. Nothing living remains in that condition without topside oxygenated blood flow. Destroy equipment necessary for topside oxygenated blood flow, and all that is living will die...within seconds. It doesn't matter whether an arrow at 300 FPS or a hyper-velocity mega-magnum destroys a monster bull elk's heart and/or lungs. The result will be identical: that big, old, massive racked bull will hit dirt.

My guess is 100% of fables about big game taking pounds of lead and packing its bags for international travel weren't about tenacity of big game species. They were excuses for bad shooting. The old hunter's bromide of a .243 Win in the boiler room is a lot better than an '06 to its guts is as true today as it ever was. Biology will always win. Decommission any big game species oxygenated blood pumping apparatus and it will die. There is no deviation from this law of biological science.

Another poster correctly pointed out that differences in cartridges are in a hunter's head, not in game fields.

Given a choice between a 22" barreled .338-'06 and a 24" barreled .338 Win Mag, and I'll go with the former every single time. I love lightweight, fast-handling big game rifles, geometrically more so at Rocky Mountain altitude.

Were I backed into a corner, I'd give up truth: the .280 Rem is my favorite cartridge. And no, I don't own a .280 Rem. However, experience is an excellent teacher. I could put a .308 Win carbine to a lot of serious big game hunting use. In fact, were I to find a good quality .308 Win carbine, my other big game rifles wouldn't leave their perches in my safe.

I have but two controlling criteria for big game rifles: accuracy and reliability. A mega-magnum would be useless if it couldn't group with one-hit-wonders. I will not own a big game rifle that weren't 100% (as close to 1 as possible for a mechanical device) reliable. Cartridge selection is third. And in this case, assuming equal accuracy and reliability, I'd go with the .338-'06.

Like all things guns & cartridges, the foregoing was merely my opinion.

I hope all of you enjoy a very successful and memorable 2019 big game season.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

Originally posted by taylorce1:
I can tell you from having owned rifles in both cartridges, any perceived difference you're seeing is all in your head.

This paper comparison is appropriate but it must be done fairly.

For example, a 35 Whelen 250gn at 2600fps will operate at a lower pressure than a 338-06 250gn at 2600fps. If they are allowed to run at the same pressure, the 35 caliber will produce slightly more velocity than the 33 caliber. That is simple physics for the results of slightly larger diameters.

Having said the above and asked for a tighter, fairer comparison, I would add that there wouldn't be any practical hunting difference between a 33-06 and a 35-06. A person can use whichever rifle they may find with either of the calibers.

What's the speed you're actually going to gain from a 6% bore diameter change running at the same pressure of 63K PSI (SAAMI .338-06 vs 62K .35 Whelen) with the same grain bullet? This isnt a .270 Win vs .280 Rem 5,000 PSI difference we're talking about. Plus do you have the equipment to test to see if you're loading to the same pressure, if so what's the real world difference? I went off load data from books where actual test equipment was used. I'm betting they'll still be real similar @ 400 yards regardless if the Whelen is faster, because the .338 still has better BC bullets.

Like I said it's all in your head if you think the Whelen is better than the .338-06. Real world there isnt a NA big game animal that's going to survive a well placed shot by either.

quote:

Originally posted by 4sixteen:
More than just energy calculations need to be considered to see why some including myself believe the 35 caliber version hits harder.

Bullet diameter or actually cross-sectional area which is proportional to the square of diameter is a factor as well as energy and sectional density which this calculation takes into consideration -


https://www.chuckhawks.com/rif...lling_power_list.htm

It would be extremely difficult to figure which bullet hits harder, since it's impossible for one bullet to duplicate exactly the same result of another bullet on the same animal. That the .35 hits harder than the .33 is the way you perceive it. When it comes to ballistics, the .33 bullets have greater SD than the .35 bullets, so one would think that the .33 bullets hit harder. However, as others have said, it's all mental masturbation. A good shot from a small caliber has the potential to kill faster than a bad shot from a larger caliber, and this is reality, not perception.

.33 BULLET SD

200-gr = .250
210-gr = .263
225-gr = .281
250-gr = .313

.35 BULLET SD

225-grain = .251
250-grain = .279

By the way, some cartridges such as the .243(6mm), 6.5mm, 7mm, .30, .303 and 8mm also have bullets with great SD. For example, the 100-grain .243 bullet has an SD of .242.

And to add more fuel to the fire, I will introduce you to the .338 Sabi:
http://www.sabirifles.co.za/338sabi.htm

quote:

Originally posted by 4sixteen:
More than just energy calculations need to be considered to see why some including myself believe the 35 caliber version hits harder.

Bullet diameter or actually cross-sectional area which is proportional to the square of diameter is a factor as well as energy and sectional density which this calculation takes into consideration -


https://www.chuckhawks.com/rif...lling_power_list.htm

Okay using your list, and using the formula provided in it.

Energy (in foot pounds) x Sectional Density (taken from reloading manuals) x cross-sectional Area (in square inches) = Killing Power Score. (Round off to one decimal place for convenience.)

E x SD x A = KPS

.338 250 grain bullet 2600 FPS MV

E(3733) X SD(.313) X A(.08973) = KPS 105.9

.358 250 grain bullet 2600 FPS MV

E(3776) X SD(.279) X A(.1007) = KPS 106.0

Your argument for the .35 Whelen having more killing effect doesn't hold up. Now the author of that article did his figuring at 100 yards from the muzzle, but they'll still be neck in neck if I used the 100 yard energy figures. In that artcile the .338 Federal with a 210 grain bullet had a much better KPA than the anemic load they used for the .35 Whelen at 100 yards, just food for thought.

I thought about adding my $0.02 worth but see that I need a nickel to ante into the pot. Shit sakes!!

quote:

Originally posted by kda55:
I thought about adding my $0.02 worth but see that I need a nickel to ante into the pot. Shit sakes!!

It's ok. We are just tanking about apples versus apples, and saying that "my apple" is superior to other apples.

But some apples are better than others!

I dont have a 338/06, I do have a Whelen. But I would love to have a fairly light 338/06 with about a 22-24" sporter bbl. I think it would be the perfect Elk round. You may be able to load down a 338 WM, but you can lighten up the 06 version without it kicking your teeth loose, and doing a lot of hiking all over God's country with a 15 lb rifle (yes, that was sarcasm) aint my cup of tea. The other beauty of the 338/06 is bullet selection. It just doesnt get much better. I love my Whelen, but frankly the bullets available in 338 are better.

I have a 338 RCM..which is basically a 338-06. Very useful--I'm packing mine on a mid Asian ibex hunt in October...

quote:

Originally posted by SDhunter:
But some apples are better than others!

But better is in the eyes of the beholder

~just kidding

Holy bat poop! My post seems to have stirred up some controversy. Not my intention. Sorry.

AT

quote:

Originally posted by Alec Torres:
Holy bat poop! My post seems to have stirred up some controversy. Not my intention. Sorry.

AT

Alec, heated debate is never a bad thing as long as it doesn't degrade beyond that. I'll be honest and I've taken it too far a time or two myself. You had an idea some thought it was good others think there's might be better, I say run with yours and see if you like it. If you learn something and enjoy the process, is it such a bad thing if it doesn't turn out like you hoped? I guess what I'm saying a .338-06 could be everything you imagined it would be, worst case you gained some firsthand knowledge.

I really like my .338-06 it was the first rifle I ever wanted like no other, after reading my very first introduction on it in my very first reloading manual. I've had one almost 20 years now but when it comes time to seriously hunt, my .270 Win is the first rifle I think of. It has just been such a reliable cartridge for me it's like second nature to reach for it.

Never once have I regretted trying a different cartridge out, it has always been a fun experience. I've chased a lot of paper data, and spent a lot of money looking for something better. I just thank god I did it with firearms and not women, as I wouldn't have money for the smart phone I'm using to post from.

So don't worry about stirring some lively conversations!

Thats funny, For around here anymore, I thought that this was a very civil discussion. Everyone voiced their opinion, not everyone agree's, but I think most will admit that it is a useful cartridge. I did not find it controversial at all. Reminds me of the good old days before spillover from the political forum poisoned the environment. Shoot, I'm just proud that there was discourse without insult... What a concept!

If you stood 50 elephants and 40 Lions in a row and shot them with each of the calibers mentioned on this thread, do you really think you could tell the difference in the calibers killing effect..You could not and if you repeated it a thousand times you still could not..

If you could then that is the caliber all of us would use and we would sell all our guns but that one..but I cannot tell one from the other as a matter of fact, nor do I need to because I have or had at least one of each and got to use them all and that was the funest part of it all. that's how come I know this post to be fact, not fiction!!

35 Whelen vs. 338-06 using the heaviest Woodleigh bullets:

310gr .358 at 2250 fps muzzle speed (easily doable in my Whelen) / 300gr .338 say at the same muzzle speed (probably not quite, skinnier so a real long bullet that takes up more case capacity but anyhow...).

35 Whelen: 121.4

338-06: 113.5

The Whelen wins!

You can do the same between the Whelen and the 9.3x62 and get a similar result with the x62 winning hands down.

so, what do we learn? See Ray's post above.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Alaska:

quote:

Originally posted by SDhunter:
But some apples are better than others!

But better is in the eyes of the beholder

~just kidding

Absolutely!

Shoot what you like, like what you shoot, but most importantly....put the bullet in the right place.

quote:

Originally posted by 4sixteen:
35 Whelen vs. 338-06 using the heaviest Woodleigh bullets:

35 Whelen: 121.4

338-06: 113.5

The Whelen wins!

I'll let you have that one, I had no desire to shoot bullets that heavy
in the Whelen or .338-06. Hell, I rarely shoot 300 grain bullets in my .375 Ruger. I just do see any advantage to a bullet that heavy.

An advantage of the 338 is the availability of VLD bullets like the Nosler 265gr Accubond Long Range. I load these in my 338 WM at 2650 fps muzzle speed. I've used the AB but it was in my 375. Performed not too bad actually on Bull Moose.

0.732 b.c. and should be excellent in the 338-06 as well if seating depth isn't excessive to maximize case capacity. No comparable 35 caliber bullet so with the VLD the 338-06 could have the edge over the Whelen for long range work.

https://shop.nosler.com/nosler...in-bullet-100ct.html

Late to the party. Have two of this wonderful cartridge. Both pre 64 and one a std and one a fwt. Both rebored ‘06. Yes still have a ‘p
06, who doesn’t. Also NOW HAVE. A safe queen WM two damn heavy and kicks like a mule.

Have taken african game zebra, sabke, bkue wildebeest, etc. Also moose, brown bear with 225 and 250 grainers as well as a slew of whitetail with 160 ttsx.

What is not to like. One just over seven lbs the other just under 9lbs.

You will love it and join the rest with a retired WM!

The ballistics it generates compared to other magnum calibers with a lot less powder is impressive. I am surprised it is not more main stream.

Alec what are fellow AR members good for if they don’t help you spend your money. As a lefty shooter, I will give you a couple of options.

1. On Gun International under left hand rifles. There is an Esquisite Winchester M70 built by the David Miller Company of Tucson AZ. It is listed for $6,500 in .270 win but at 8lb. 10oz.’s.
Rebarrel it, or send to JES reboring in Oregon for about $240 give or take a few bucks. It will shed some weight to around 8lb.’s You’ll have it in your hands in less than two weeks and you are ready to roll. You will have a hard time getting a rifle with enough soul to match this one. No 3-5 years for a build etc..

2. A few months ago a gentelman in the classifieds posted that he was looking for a custom left hand rifle.
A member in Georgia responded that he had a custom Win. LH in .338-06. I don’t recall his call sign. A search or an assist by a more technical member than me can help you locate it.

If you ever head towards San Diego, pm me. You are most welcome to stop by and view a few lefties.

A few year ago I picked up one of the early Brn/Win M95 rifles in 30-06 with the intent to re ore it's to 9.3x62. Having used that round on a number of big bears I know how wonderful it works.
But I am also familiar with how well the 30-06 with 200 and 220 gr Partitions works, so decided to keep it as is.
For now

quote:

Originally posted by Alec Torres:
Considering a rifle in this caliber. I have no experience with the cartridge, but it is appealing. Any opinions as a hunting round for plains game and elk?

Or would I be better off with a .338 WM?

Thanks,

AT

Lets cut to the end.....if you truly
need more than a .30-06 then you should move up to the .375 H&H.

While I own a .338-06 and a .35 Whelen and a 9.3 X 62 I will say that they serve to fill a space in the gun rack.....not a need in the hunting game. The .30-06 properly loaded will hold it's own with any f them