The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles .338-'06 Opinions?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
Dude, don't know about OZ, but there are many .35 Whelen rifles - various makes of bolt-guns and Ruger single shots - available on the secondary market. Regardless, assuming you've got access to a competent gunsmith, you can pretty cheaply rebarrel any 30-06 bolt gun into .35W.
Dude, you might live in a majorly restrictive Nanny State, but here in the U.S., there's plenty of .35W 'factory ammo' available. All The Best ... | |||
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None of that covers the average bloke whether in America or Australia. The average bloke is not into rebarreling a 270 or 30/06 to 35 Whelen or getting a Ruger No 1 or looking for some used rifle that itself was probably a gunsmith conversion. It is really simple. You can walk into a gun shop and buy a bolt action 338 and also ammo and then go shooting. Look up Winchester, Remington, Ruger, Tikka etc. and how many models come in 35 Whelen. | |||
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FWIW we have 35W all over the place where I am. | |||
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How do you know? Have you discussed this with all the 'average blokes' here and in Aus.?
A lot of those rifles are going to have problems right out of the box. Some are plain junk. That's just the way it is with new production guns these days.
Why does it have to be new production? Custom re-barreled 35Ws on the secondary (pre-owned) market will likely run fine, even if the stock or bluing shows some amount of honest wear. All that said, the .35W is the better, more versatile cartridge. Plus, it's got an established history of putting big bad critters down right now. All The Best ... | |||
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 PS on the 35-Whelen addition to the thread and discussion: No doubt it is a great round, but its design is a tad retro. The neck length is .462" and unnecessarily long. For the 35 caliber afficionados a better and simple design could be had by necking the 375 Ruger case down to .358". Yes, that would be a pretty nice caliber and even give the 375 a run for its money, nominally sending a 250gn bullet out at 2800-2850fps and 4350-4500ft#. Of course, it would be a real magnum with the attendant opening of the bolt face for .532" case-heads and maybe one less round in a magazine. I only think of three as the max need for a magazine, so 3 or 4 would not be a problem. Of course, being a fairly robust magnum, it would no longer fit in a discussion of a 338-06, where the 338 WinMag is being deemed overly powerful. (It isn't.) +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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[/QUOTE] PS on the 35-Whelen addition to the thread and discussion: No doubt it is a great round, but its design is a tad retro. The neck length is .462" and unnecessarily long. For the 35 caliber afficionados a better and simple design could be had by necking the 375 Ruger case down to .358". Yes, that would be a pretty nice caliber and even give the 375 a run for its money, nominally sending a 250gn bullet out at 2800-2850fps and 4350-4500ft#. Of course, it would be a real magnum with the attendant opening of the bolt face for .532" case-heads and maybe one less round in a magazine. I only think of three as the max need for a magazine, so 3 or 4 would not be a problem. Of course, being a fairly robust magnum, it would no longer fit in a discussion of a 338-06, where the 338 WinMag is being deemed overly powerful. (It isn't.)[/QUOTE] If Ruger/Hornady would bring out this 35/375 Ruger cartridge, I’d break out in a 12-Day ‘happy dance’!!  This has been my dream ever since the 375 Ruger was offered to the public. I can’t really defend my choice over the 375 Ruger itself, but being an unapologetic, unrepentant 35 caliber fanatic, I don’t care. This would be an upgrade of the great 358 Norma Mag.! As for the 35 Whelen & 338-06, their neck lengths are both unnecessarily long I guess, with the 35 Whelen @ .462 and the 338-06 @ .435, both being longer than caliber diameter. But hey, they’re both great cartridges. I am anxious to try my new 338-06 this fall on elk. The 35 Whelen is an elk killer par excellence I have found. I imagine the 338-06 will not disappoint... | |||
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Whelen's Neck too long? What? My Cast 280 Grain Cast bullets feel right at home in that lovely Neck! Retro yes. Too long, no way! Happy day to you all! "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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Newton did it 100 years ago. | |||
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See, this is how my luck runs. I could have either been born a hundred years ago, or Ruger/Hornady could have already brought this combo out in the market. As it stands, I’ve got nada...  | |||
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And it was a great cartridge: "One Western .35 Newton factory load pushed a 250 grain bullet from the muzzle at 2975 fps, producing 4925 ft-lbs. of energy." But its case-head is .525"-.522," which made it neither fish nor fowl. A person could not wildcat the round from any standard brass. So now history will give Ruger/Hornady the chance for a do-over. But I'm not holding my breath, since they passed over the chance to do the frickin' obvious 338/375Ruger. The 33 Nosler is currently the closest to that niche. Meanwhile, I'm fairly content with both the 338WM and the 375 Ruger. Life could be worse.   +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Given I set 450 yards as a limit for field shooting and then only under the best of conditions, I am very content with my 338-06. The Barnes 225 grn TTSX is a very capable bullet and using the average of the Barnes data for the 4 best powders as opposed to just picking one or two and adjusting for the data being developed in a 25 inch bbl so normalizing it down by 27.5 fps, you get an average velocity of 2664 fps. The 225 TTSX starting at 2664 is travelling at 2015 fps (well above minimum expansion velocity) and delivering 2029 ft lbs of energy at 450 yards. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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If it aint broke don't fix it. If you think you need more than the 30-06 and you probably don't, I do agree that moving up to a bigger bore makes sense---but a faster .30 doesn't to me. What do I know? The .300 mags are big sellers. | |||
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I recently sold my big bore guns including the 338s, and 9.3s..My hunting these days include a yearly elk, a mule deer or two and a two whitetail bucks and a doe cull hunt in Texas or 109 does a year sent to an orphan home or whatever by the 10 connecting ranches program and most of them shoot twice that many I suspect..I no longer have need for a .338, 404, 416, 375 or a double rifle..Today since retirement I,m satisfied with a 270, 30-06, 257 Ackley and some smaller bores..I used many of the big bores on cape buffalo etc. and found them all suitable if your first shot was good. My newest deer rifle is to be a 24 inch Marlin 336, half magazine, half oct. half round 25-35 Win shooting a 97 gr. GS customs HVHP at 2600 to 2700 fps or a 117 gr. Hornady at 2300 FPS, maybe a tad faster..for deer and who knows maybe a cow elk under good circumstances..and if I decide on one more DG hunt, I'll make do with a 30-06 and a 200 gr. Nosler Partition.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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This would make a nice separate thread. If limited to a 30-06, how would one approach a buffalo hunt? PS: it's sad to hear of getting rid of the 338 while you're living in elk country. For lightweight carry, Tikka makes a nice 6.5# rifle, 7.5 with scope. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I just bought a Ruger M77 Mrk II rifle in 30-'06 and will re-barrel to .338-'06. I have to scratch this itch. | |||
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Good on ‘ya! Great idea & choice. You’re gonna’ love your new 338-06. Go get that itch! | |||
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My 338-06 is an M70 Classic Featherweight that got a new barrel from Lothar Walter. I hunt with 225 grs Woodleigh PP, and so far I have five moose these last three years with the combo. Light and handy rifle with a great cartridge  So far I`m very satisfied, and although five beasts are a bit less to make any statistics on, I can see no difference in efficiency compared to the 338 WM and 375 H&H. That said, I`m not a long range shooter, due to my eyesight, all shots are less than 200 yds. Arild Iversen. | |||
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Great! You satisfied your “want” vs your “need”. I’ve always said, I want a rifle for Christmas, but I need underwear! Shoot Safe, Mike NRA Endowment Member | |||
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If I was stuck on .338, I would get the win mag. If I wanted easy, I would do the 35 Whelen. I have both. | |||
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I considered both these cartridges carefully. Both are very useful cartridges. My goal is simply to send 200 or 210 grain bullets downrange at 2800 to 2900 FPS. The .338-'06 will do this without the recoil, muzzle blast or extra weight of the .338 WM and a bit flatter, I think than the .35 Whelen. That is the sole basis for my choice. Of course, I am not you and you likely have different performance criteria. | |||
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Mr Torres You will likely love your choice. I had two 338wm’s and loved both. I had a plan to replace them, not sold happily, with a 338-06 someday. Before that came about a lovely old Springfield 35 Whelen came into my life. You will find the ‘06 mid weight bores very effective on game, very fun to shoot. Your right, the higher B.C. of the 338 vs. 358 is a bit of an advantage. Nothing huge but still there. Keep us posted on your project!! Best regards, "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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Thank you, Fury01. Already have the rifle (candidate) in hand, spoke with my rifle builder. This should be started soon. | |||
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There's a great 338-06 custom Mauser in the Classifieds right now. | |||
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Left Handed? If so, please posta link or PM me. | |||
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So many Cape Buffalo have been killed by Africans, as well as most every African youth that killed his first elephant used a 30-06 accoding to nemourous PH Ive talked with over many a campfire..and many PH use a 30-06 on Lions when hunting for themselves.. To kill a cape buffalo I would use a 30-06 loaded with 220 gr. Noslers at 2500 FPS or there abouts, and try to break the forward shoulder to the heart lungs..If that failed I shoot him in his knob and be done with it. and have in fact done it with less on occasion..He is blood, flesh and bone, not steel.. When one compares 338 to .35 its a simple trade off? 338 has more penetration by a good deal, the 35 makes a bigger bloody hole and "hammers" them down, whatever that means, but its too close to call in the field, they work about the same as far as I can tell..Energy is just a coined word IMO..I think I prefer penetration first and foremost so I picked the .338 as a rule, right or wrong, but nothing I know of will out penetrate a 300 gr. 338..and not a 310 gr, 35 cal will not.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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It’s hard to believe that rifle hasn’t sold yet, it’s probably the best value on a custom rifle listed on AR. All We Know Is All We Are | |||
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In a 1000 killed moose Swedish study 6,*55, .308w, 8*57, 3006 and 7rm had very similar result in number of shots to kill them and running distance. 300wm had a slightly shorter running distance. 9,3*62,.358nm and .375hh had both less shots fired and short running distance. So to get a noticeable different result on moose you need 30-40% difference in bullet weight or diameter. All tested calibers gave sufficent result to be allowed for moosehunting. The medium shooting distance was 60m. "However, when it comes to lightweight rifles in 338 caliber, a person can just pick up a Tikka in 338 WM. No fuss, no changes, very lightweight, and they are shooters." Tikkas are to light rifles with composite stocks for 338wm they are often resold. | |||
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Very interesting study/statistics. I have always felt the 358, 366, 375 class of medium bores hit harder and dropped animals faster than 308 and smaller calibers in my hunting experiences. I must say my 338 WM has fared as well however, and I only shoot 250+ gr. bullets in it. Your study did not mention results for the 338 calibers. How did they fare in the study? I feel once calibers are big enough to shoot 250+ gr. bullets at respectable speeds, a difference can be seen in the field. And personally, for my preference, the bigger the caliber the better. I am in love with my 35 Whelen, but admit the 9.3 & 375 are better, IMHO. I’ve only read about this in one book, and that was Kevin Robertson’s ‘The Perfect Shot’, but I believe and agree with it, even if no other authors write about this observation, or perhaps I have just not read enough books yet! Most 338+ calibers can effectively shoot 250+ grainers at useful velocities. This is just my opinion and YMMV. | |||
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.35 Whelen is still the superior round, ... ... unless you're in Australia where they can't spell 'Whelen,' much less shoot it.  All The Best ... | |||
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The 338 SABI appears to get a lot of play in South Africa. Similar to the 338-06 AI but used to run at lower operating pressures throwing a 250 at 2350 and penetration and weight retention are said to be consistent and outstanding. Guess what's new is not necessarily different. | |||
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I disagree, hand me the 338-06 over a Whelen any day, all day. | |||
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Mr AJ is simply trolling and as such isn’t worth our time. The OP made the only remaining salient point about 35 versus 338 and that is BC of bullets. Mono metal has leveled the penetration field into meaningless and powder choices have brought velocities into relative parity. Now we can simply enjoy the greatness of the ‘06 cased mid-weights on game. "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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What amazes me is basic concept that the larger case holds more powder and shoots heavier bullets. Therefore, regardless of the bS, I would rather shoot a elephant with a .338 Win than a 35 Whelen, 338-06 or 30-06..Just seems like common sense something that's missing in some of of these post that defend old Betsy for no other reason than they have one... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The .333Jeffery is still the king. Made in 1908 the case design resembles the modern .300 Norma Magnum. BTW: Alf knows this. Should Alf choose a .350cal the 400/350Rigby would be his choice.  DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway | |||
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To each his own. Such "perceived" killing power between a caliber and another is nothing but mental masturbation. The most popular cartridges in Alaska are the .30-06, .300WM, .338WM, 7mm Remington Magnum, .375H&H, and so on. There is nothing wrong with the .35 Whelen nor its bullet diameter, but rifles in this caliber are more of a rarity with Alaska hunters as much as the .338-06 is. By the way, the SD of a 250-grain .338 bullet = .313, versus .279 for a 250-grain .35-caliber bullet. While the .35 may create a wider hole, the .338 bullet has the potential to out-penetrate a .35 bullet of the same weight and construction. The real "stone killer" is not SD, BC, bullet diameter nor weight, but a good shot. Also, the average hunter is Alaska uses his rifle to hunt in wide-open (caribou country) as well as forested areas (moose and bear country), and that's why the .30-06, .300WM, .338WM, and .7mm Magnum remain so popular. There are several cartridges that are in a way "offsprings" of the .30-06 case: .338-06, .35 Whelen, .338 Sabi, and so on. All are good, and it makes no sense whatsoever for any of us to dissuade the OP from building whatever rifle caliber he wants. | |||
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Ray - There are very few elephants where I elk hunt. If I decide to hunt elephants I have a .404J. Horses for courses. | |||
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But there ARE elephants where I sometimes carry a 338. [But I rarely have solids in the magazine and I'm not sure that I would shoot a 225gn TTSX at an ele except in an emergency that has never happened. Fortunately. ]+-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Alec, that is because I killed all the local NA elphants with my .338 Win..so you must see it works on everything!!  and its done me the best job of any caliber on elk over the years, and although I sold my .338 Win. as stated in a previous post, I needed a SS steel,boat paddle Ruger for Idaho snow days, which can be many, I purchased one in .338 caliber..I just feel better with the .338 regardless of my preferences to a 06..Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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what more can I say? +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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