I need to build an elk rifle for my 10 year old son. My wife drew a rifle cow tag and if my son passes the hunters safety course she will sign the tag over to him. He has been shooting a .22LR for 2 years, but never shot a CF rifle. I'm just finishing my first Savage .243. I plan on starting him with this gun loaded with 55gr BT's.

Now, I need to set him up with an elk gun. I'm not really concerned with long range, since I will limit his shots to 200 yds. One of my biggest concerns is recoil. I was thinking about a 7mm-08 loaded with 150 grain Partions.
Or maybe a .270.?

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated?

FWIW- I've never taken an elk or any other big game, for that matter, but I drew an early archery cow tag this year too. We do, however, have a few friends/ experienced elk hunters who have committed to go out with us.

How about a down loaded 30-06 and use reduced loads and he can hunt with it his whole life.

Remington sells reduced recoil ammo for 30-06.

What bullet would you shoot? 165's?

Had a similar situation with my 12 year old son..... some 18 years ago

Shot lots of 22's, then some 257 Roberts w/85gr load to about 2000-2200 fps... no recoil.

Never told him about the "hunting load"... a 120 Nosler @ about 2750 fps

Got him position about 90 yards away....one shot, one kill.... he never said a thing about the increased recoil and/or muzzle blast.

Told him about "the switch" years later....my reward was, "Thanks Dad" and a Big Hug!

Best of luck to you and your son

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/managed-Recoil.asp

well the reduced recoil ammo from rem shoots a 125 grain bullet.

See how the kid does with diff ammo and power. Maybe start him off with the remington light loads and work up.

If he can do Minute of Elk @ 200 yards you are home free.

if you dont reload try superior ammo for custom loads with premium bullets.

I think the practice will give him all the confidence he needs...

Shoot, Reload and Repeat...often.

My 9 & 11 year old both shoot my 8x57 and shoot it well with lots of practice. I load it with 180 gr TSXs and 196 gr Woodleighs. I would think that an 7mm-08 or 7x57 would be perfect.





I am taking the rifle to Namibia in May and my wife and I will both use it for plains game up to Eland.

A 7-08 would be perfect. A 270 or anything else on the 30-06 case is going to give you higher recoil velocity. If you load it's really easy to down load that cartridge. If your wondering what a 7-08 will do check out Fern Spalding at larryrivers.com/fern.htm

She shoots the 7-08 about 40 rounds/day when there's daylight. I made the recoils shield she wears when using her 375. That's another option. Take a look at superiorshooting.com for more info on shields or give me a call.

TMc

a 6.5 swede or a .260 would be a good choice.
Good reputation for killing beyond what one would expect ...tj3006

I agree with TJ. Anything from 6.5 Swede, 260 Rem, 7-08 or 7x57 and you are good.

My stepson was 10 when he started using my wife's 7x57. He handles it fine.

450/400: I couldn't agree more. Any of those 4 will work fine with little recoil.

My boys will be hunting in AZ this fall....although they've grown up a bit.

Recoil is a consideration, as previously mentioned by you and others. I think it can be managed by reduced practice loads fairly well. The real hunting load can be much more potent, just make sure the zero is set for the one that matters!

I think that one key issue not previously mentioned is gun fit. That will include both stock length of pull and overall weight. I had a 30-30 trapper cut to a 13" LOP and fit with a good recoil pad for use in the past. Not considered perfect elk medicine by any means, but with 170g Nosler Partitions at ranges for likely hits in a cow hunt, it would do the trick. My younger son is quite good with that rifle despite its horrible trigger.

Weight might surprise you as a problem, but have your son try holding up the rifles you are considering and dry-fire them offhand, kneeling, sitting.....you may find (like I did) that the weight of a rifle held out in front of them really was a problem.

Depending on your preference, a rifle that fits now and still works later could be had via an Encore frame and Bantam-length stock, or something similar from NEF. Reaching around a too-long stock makes aiming difficult and compounds the weight problem.

My boys will be 14 1/2 and 16 in the fall.....LOP is no longer an issue for them, but I will be working up reduced loads for lots of practice this summer. I suspect one will be using my 30-06--after practice with ultralight cast loads and then light, reduced recoil loads. Hunting will be with the real ones....

My intent is for each of them to determine thru practice how far away they can consistently hit a paper plate--standing, sitting, prone, etc. I don't plan on them shooting beyond that distance in that manner.

Mostly, my goal is to make this hunt (their first elk hunt) a good experience. We are all looking forward to it.

Cheers,

Dan

I think you are spot on witht he 270W or 7-08.

If you reload, have him shoot a bunch of light for caliber bullets with a safe reduced powder charge. It worked wonderfully for my nephews and deer.

After he gets real comfortable with the rifle and reduced loads. Using hearing protection and a shooting pad.

I would switch to a heavy for caliber bullet in Nosler Partitin or cup and core.

A 150-160gr in 270 or 160-175 in 7mm.

Use a mild powder charge to get at least 2400 fps. Go hunting. If he puts it in the right spot, you will be eating elk venison.

If you don't reload, start with the factory reduced loads, then have him use a full power load with a light premium bullet for hunting. But I wouldn't tell him. he will never know the difference when shooting at an elk.

I actually like the 260 w/ 130grNAB @ 2700fps. Not my first choice, but stay under 200yds & a good double lung shot should do it. AS he gets older he can move upto a heavier rifle & keep the 260 for deer & antelope.

Lot's of good suggestions here.

For my son. 308 win pushing a 150 grain partition @ 2800 fps.

There are several fine sugestions here but I lean toward the the 260/6.5x55 as was sugested by a couple other guys. Moderate recoil with good penitration.

I would look at the 130 Accubonds,130 Swift Scirrocos or the 125 Nosler partitions.

If you are looking for factory ammo, here are a couple of factory managed recoil loads for the 260 and 7-08 that should do the trick.

260 Remington RL2601 140 Core-Lokt PSP
7mm-08 Remington RL7M081 140 Core-Lokt PSP

7mm08 160grain Accubonds

Any questions

I'm a adult with a bum shoulder. When I go elk hunting I use a 7-08 with 140 gr nosler partitions. granted I 've only shot 2 Bulls but both times the elk never knew what hit them. Bang flop dead elk. I use a model seven with a 18" 1/2' barrel, great gun for carry and you carry more then you shoot. should be just the ticket. BB2

As some of the others have suggested, don't overlook rifle weight. About 3 years ago, T helped my young nephew take his first deer - used a Rem Model 7 in 260. He tried my Rem BDL in 308 Win., but said it was too heavy. Remington makes a great little youth rifle, http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/youth/model_seven.asp, in both .260 and 7mm-08. I, of course, prefer the .260. Do put as good a scope on it as possible - the Leupold VXII 2x7 would be perfect.

Another thing to consider is eye dominance. Work that issue out well before hunting time. My nephew is right-handed, left-eyed, and it took some effort for him to get comfortable. I taught him to squint his left eye - not easy. I'm right-handed, right-eyed, but can shoot pretty comfortable left-handed if needed.

Don't get over concerned with "well, its a push feed" or get him "a rifle he can use the rest of his life". Get him a rifle he can use WELL the next 3-4 years. If introduced correctly, your son will enjoy his first hunts so much, this will not be the last rifle he owns, but (with a new stock) might be his most cherished.

Mine started life as a 6mm Remington, and I got it when I was 14. I learned to reload with that rifle, killed a pile of deer, and learned a lot about guns. I did rebarrel it to .260 and still hunt with, some 25 years later. It is not my only rifle : .308, 30-06, .375 H&H, and many more that have had a cup of coffee in my gun cabinet.

I have a question after reading this thread: why is it that a 10 year old or a woman can use a small caliber rifle on elk, but when men discuss it such calibers are no where in sight? Somehow with adult man size comes the need to shoot an adult man size rifle cartridge at the same game animal that moments ago was despatched with aplomb by the small caliber round... dunno.

For what it is worth, I've been around lots of elk, including rutting bulls at various times, but have yet to hunt one with a rifle so my comments are admittedly without basis in fact. However, the question stands.

quote:

Originally posted by jsl3170:
I have a question after reading this thread: why is it that a 10 year old or a woman can use a small caliber rifle on elk, but when men discuss it such calibers are no where in sight? Somehow with adult man size comes the need to shoot an adult man size rifle cartridge at the same game animal that moments ago was despatched with aplomb by the small caliber round... dunno.

For what it is worth, I've been around lots of elk, including rutting bulls at various times, but have yet to hunt one with a rifle so my comments are admittedly without basis in fact. However, the question stands.

js13170...when I read this thread this morning I was thinking the same thing!...maybe women and yougsters are better shoots, I don't know..

Thanks guys.

I'm just getting set-up to reload. So I'm not limited to factory ammo. I guess right now I thinking the .260 or 7mm-08 should do the trick, probably leaning towards the 7mm-08 in case I ever have to rely on factory ammo. I seem to see more of it ,than .260, in stores.

As far as why some calibers are OK for women and kids, but not for us. I use a 7mm Mag mostly because I want to be able to take that 400 or 500 yard shot If I absolutely have too.

quote:

Originally posted by jsl3170:
I have a question after reading this thread: why is it that a 10 year old or a woman can use a small caliber rifle on elk, but when men discuss it such calibers are no where in sight? Somehow with adult man size comes the need to shoot an adult man size rifle cartridge at the same game animal that moments ago was despatched with aplomb by the small caliber round... dunno.

For what it is worth, I've been around lots of elk, including rutting bulls at various times, but have yet to hunt one with a rifle so my comments are admittedly without basis in fact. However, the question stands.

FWIW, I would not recommend a 260 for elk, but for someone that can't handle recoil &/or rifle wt. & is very carefull about range & bullet placement, a 260 w/ the right bullet will do. Me, I get 7 days to fill my nonres elk tag. I am not about to be so patient that I will use a lesser caliber than my 338-06. I know guys that hunt elk routinely w/ 25-06 & even 243, but to ecommend it as an elk round, nope.

7mm-08 or 308?

Or, if shots would be close, some large bore with slow bullets. Maybe a 44 mag in a rifle or 45-70 loaded light.

I started of both of my daughters with .243.
I found that it didn't really kick that much less than a .308 though.

I think that perceived recoil is more important than real recoil.

I would recomend getting a Past shoulder pad, they run about $30. I also put good recoil pad on rifle. I also suggest getting an electronic hearing proctection and have them always wear it. On range, Also have them wear ear plugs.

I have done these with my daughters and they both handled an /06 fine for elk, mild 165 loads.

I would go with the 7/08 in your case though.
Better SD and BC than .308
Enough gun for elk
You already shoot a 7mag (same bullets)
You will not notice any difference in recoil between .260 with 130s and 7/08 with 140s.
You can step down to 110 in 7mm and up to 175 as needed.

Just my thoughts
RC

Ask Tom Mccoy about his recoil pad...he goes by tmc here and a little girl killed a big brownie using a 375 H+H and his patented recoil pad.

A classy 06 that he can hunt with his whole life would be so cool.

keep us posted.

http://www.larryrivers.com/girls%20brown%20bear.htm

My dad and I loaded some 150gr. Hornady bullets in his .30-06 when I first started shooting and hunting. Couldn't have been more than 2600fps. I practiced day and night with that gun until I was able to shoot it well, with confidence.

And when I was busy getting our gear out of the truck when we got to our hunting spot, he dropped a max load 180gr. Partition in the chamber. That did the trick! I never noticed the recoil, it's perceived a lot differently when the animal is in your sights I think.

Never had any problems with flinch and by the end of that year I was shooting those max loaded Patitions off the bench with no problems.

quote:

I'm just getting set-up to reload. So I'm not limited to factory ammo. I guess right now I thinking the .260 or 7mm-08 should do the trick, probably leaning towards the 7mm-08 in case I ever have to rely on factory ammo. I seem to see more of it ,than .260, in stores.

7mm-08 without a doubt. Go find a rifle that fits him very well. Load up a bunch of 120gr bullets and let him shoot, shoot, and shoot while slowly increasing the powder charge.

Then load up some NP's in 150gr (per your first post) and go kill an elk.

I thought all red blooded American kids started out life with a 30-30 Win. M-94 and iron sights...I know all of us kids did.

We learned to hunt then shoot..I killed my first few elk with a 30-30 or 25-35 and was told to not shoot over 100 yards..It worked and all kills were shoulder shots and they killed clean...We used the 222 and 25-35 on deer and had the same results..My kids did the same..

My daughter-in-law uses a .243 Win. for her elk killing. I say killing, because she calls her bulls in as if she were bowhunting, then pops them in the ear hole at 30 yards max......... She takes no long shots, but is a good shot with her pre-64 Model 70 Featherweight.

quote:

Originally posted by jsl3170:
I have a question after reading this thread: why is it that a 10 year old or a woman can use a small caliber rifle on elk, but when men discuss it such calibers are no where in sight? Somehow with adult man size comes the need to shoot an adult man size rifle cartridge at the same game animal that moments ago was despatched with aplomb by the small caliber round... dunno.

For what it is worth, I've been around lots of elk, including rutting bulls at various times, but have yet to hunt one with a rifle so my comments are admittedly without basis in fact. However, the question stands.

And a good one it is, as well!

It depends on where and how you hunt, you can't just dump it all in one pot..

If you hunted elk with me in Idahos Salmon Wilderness on a steep hillside covered in thick timber or in the bottom in some swamp hole, then you had better pack a .338 or .375 with 300 gr. bullets and know your going to shoot them up the keyster or you just as well stay home and watch TV and drink beer...I want them down quick so they don't go to the bottom of the drainage because then your in for a hell of a job humping them out of there...

If on the other hand you shoot them on the sage brush hillsides then about any decent caliber will work...

quote:

We learned to hunt then shoot..I killed my first few elk with a 30-30 or 25-35 and was told to not shoot over 100 yards..It worked and all kills were shoulder shots and they killed clean...We used the 222 and 25-35 on deer and had the same results..My kids did the same..

Ray,
I'm guessing your hunting opportunities growing up were a heck of alot more than most kids today.

quote:

If you hunted elk with me in Idahos Salmon Wilderness on a steep hillside covered in thick timber or in the bottom in some swamp hole, then you had better pack a .338 or .375 with 300 gr. bullets and know your going to shoot them up the keyster or you just as well stay home and watch TV and drink beer...I want them down quick so they don't go to the bottom of the drainage because then your in for a hell of a job humping them out of there...

If on the other hand you shoot them on the sage brush hillsides then about any decent caliber will work...

Plus one on that.

6.5X55, mild recoil, and that long for caliber bullet just kills better than it shows on paper.

Just so happen to have an extra 96 Swede, sporterized if your interested. LOVES Federal 140gr. I have brass and 140 & 160 gr. Partitions.

708, 7x57, 308, 8x57,

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I thought all red blooded American kids started out life with a 30-30 Win. M-94 and iron sights...I know all of us kids did.

We learned to hunt then shoot..I killed my first few elk with a 30-30 or 25-35 and was told to not shoot over 100 yards..It worked and all kills were shoulder shots and they killed clean...We used the 222 and 25-35 on deer and had the same results..My kids did the same..

I AGREE. IS NOT THE ARROW THAT KILL, IS THE INDIAN. I BELIVE FOR KIDS FIRST LOOKING STOCK LENGHT, THEN I THINK .270 O 308 WILL BE MY CHOICE. GOOD HUNTING

I've been busy with a similar project for my 7 going 8 year old son.

I let him shoot A4 Impala/Springbuck targets at about 30m with .22 and full size animal targets at 100m with .222 and Remington's reduced .308 Win.

The reduced .308's are still a touch warm for him so I've backed off a tad there for now.

My main focus right now is basic shot placement JUST behind the shoulder. I will take him to the field with the .222 for springbuck and the .308 loaded with mildly reduced GS Custom's (Their 30-30 bullet)

I know elk are large, but know nothing more about them. I'm sure all the good advice here has a place in dandeployed's planning, but the best advice of all was to get a gun that he can grow with. It's going to be very soon that he's a big teenager!

Just an afterthought: my take on the subject comes from an environment where chopping & changing rifles is a hell of a long-winded, red-tape infested affair which makes quick upgrades very difficult. Perhaps in your case a rifle that's only needed for a couple of years and then traded up is the better way?

starting your son out with a 243 is fine, those 55 grainers will bring up his confedence,later on switch to 100 grain partitions,the bigest mistake is not letting him shot enough,take him every weekend for 6 months that way he''ll shot that 243 like a 22 rf.......when elk hunting limit his range to 200 yards. start him at a 50 yd target much easier than 100 make it a progressive with the yardage and finally end up at 200 yard max.
congrat''s to you both you''re building Great memories..........
regards

My suggestion - 7mm-08 in a Remington Model Seven. Put a limsaver recoil pad on it and shoot something in the 140gr/150gr well constructed bullet range. You mentioned limiting shots to 200yd range, WHY?? Limit the shots to 100yds and make it a whole lot easier. It's not hard to get within a 100yds of an elk in most situations.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member