On a couple of local sights on FB, I'm embarking on a summer project.
Vanguard SII, 30-06 blued finish.
30 cal throater
180 TTSX, Lapua brass, 210/215 GMM primer and RL17.
The goal is to seat the bullet out of the body as much as possible.
In the photo, I've created a dummy round, using Norma brass.
The 180 TTSX has it's base just below the neck, about 1/2 way to the shoulder.

Additional notes, the COL is 3.515 and it's crimped on the very last ring. To go up another ring would be around 3.4ish.

they run out of 300 H&H's?

So, are you making a cartridge for a single bullet? I am not sure I understand the purpose.

You're single loading these? You'd need a magazine for a 404 Jeffery to fit them.

The Vanguard SII has a 3.6" mag length.

I know how el jeffe felt when he did his 45-70 express experiment. boomie & I must have driven him crazy.

I'll be watching with interest, might help with a 200 gr. accubond too.

Sounds logical to me. My OM 70 standard action is at Bartleins having a 6.5x284 barrel fit, chambered, and headspaced as I type. I am planning on a repeater, and the '06 length box will let me seat the 140gr Hybrid Berger (this bullet was the impetus for the build) to 3.228" and have a little space left for seating the bullet out a bit farther as the throat erodes.

setters5 & Rich, thank you and I shall endeavor to persevere

Oh joy, there's a delay.
Your's truly is having his action colour case hardened.
By whom, one would ask?
Mr. Kob. Who? Oh, he does the CCH work for Ralf Martini.

So, until further notice, this PJ is a bit delayed.
The rifle is to be sent to a competent gunsmith, stripped and the
action sent to Mr. Kob. In 3 days after he gets it, it'll be finished
and shipped back to the gunsmith for reassembly.

I'm freakin excited!!

Ive been doing that for years with the 7x57, and it really improves the caliber, it will duplicate a 280 Rem or 7x57 Ackley, and duplicate a "factory" 7 magnum with the factory loaded 140 gr.bullets that's somewhat underloaded to start with, but not a handloaded 7 mag.

If I was to go with your project I think I would go with the 30-06 Ackley Imp. with the a long chamber and magazine, and get another 100 FPs over your design Im thinking.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Ive been doing that for years with the 7x57, and it really improves the caliber, it will duplicate a 280 Rem or 7x57 Ackley, and duplicate a "factory" 7 magnum with the factory loaded 140 gr.bullets that's somewhat underloaded to start with, but not a handloaded 7 mag.

If I was to go with your project I think I would go with the 30-06 Ackley Imp. with the a long chamber and magazine, and get another 100 FPs over your design Im thinking.

That could happen, but I've never owned a 30-06 before. I want a 30-06, albeit a tad abnormal. This'll be my rifle that I mount my S&B Polar T96 on. It'll be classy and sassy.

Why not neck up 270 Win brass for an extra 40 thou length for a 3.555" OAL?

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Why not neck up 270 Win brass for an extra 40 thou length for a 3.555" OAL?

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, I'll investigate this.

quote:

Originally posted by .366torque:
I know how el jeffe felt when he did his 45-70 express experiment. boomie & I must have driven him crazy.

45/120 nitro

rel 22 will be your friend, if you have the barrel length for it --


here's what you can do, for a reality check, while you are waiting for your rifle

insert, say, 3 bullets into your brass at your desired length, and mark them around the neck with a sharpie

measure that "in the case" length, record it (average it if you must)

then CUT OFF A BULLET a little bit longer ... why longer? because you can file it down to exact length, as this will be important

btw - long-throated hot loaders will NEVER perform this, as it will 100% verify that they are grossly overloading cart pressure but they KNOW that already

now, take ONE fired case.. just one, it can be from the range, just needs to be the same as your preferred brand -- well, it doesn't, but it helps

do not deprime it, leave the fired primer in it

weigh the case -- if you don't have a digital reloading scale, i do suggest buying one - this, and many other things, are easier

this is your baseline tare

fill the case, with water, to the top of the neck, its irrelevant if you have a convex or concave meniscus, as long as you repeat exactly the same thing - do this three times, drying the outside of the case before weighing

write down that water weight -- which is total less tare, but a digital scale is easy to tare

now, dry the case... a hair drier will help -- when it's back to the tare weight ....

drive the bullet shank from above into the case -- tink - all the way into the case, NOT in the neck

weigh the case for tare again

repeat the filled with water weighing

This will tell you the absolute max real case capacity -- not a computed max,but the real one

then note the volume/weight consumed by the bullet shank you have in there -- it really wasn't very much, was it? and going from 3.34 to 3.55, that's not a heck of a lot of volume consumed?


Here's the UGLY truth -- you can make a 30-06 (or just about any cart) go faster with a long throat - but you sure as taxes can't make it go any faster than 25% of the increase in case volume/capacity and still be loading at the same PRESSURE -- unless you make radical case design changes.

What does that mean? If you, and you won't, increase capacity by 10% -- then the MAX increase in velocity, at the same pressure, is 2.5% --

understand that the 30-06 ackley is both slightly larger AND is loaded to higher pressure AND has a strongly improved shoulder (which leads to more venturi effect) to achieve its gains over the standard 30-06

and its about 4.5% greater capacity than a standard 30-06 -- if loaded to the same pressure, it would have about a 1%, slightly more, gain over the base


Anyone that tells you a "long-throated" round gives you the equal to a 15-18% larger round, without increasing pressure, is ignorant of internal ballistics - regards of the "safe in my gun" caveat - in fact, its likely to legally reckless.

by doing this experiment, you'll be able to find hard facts/data and draw your own factual conclusions.

i would STRONGLY advise not using 30-06 AI load data for a starting point, even if the improvement in capacity suggests you might, as the mechanical factors are different enough that it will warrant load development in its own right

all the best
jeffe

Thank you el jeffe! I've homework to do.

A few setbacks and time constraints, it's off to Corlane's tomorrow.
Now I have to find a suitable stock, can't have a S&B T96 sitting on anything!!

how did the case weighing work out?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
how did the case weighing work out?

I've been totally sidetracked, OT at work, kids year end stuff and health/Doctor stuff. Next week looks open for it.

Keep in mind that you need to seat bullets at least one caliber deep re: 30-06, seat it at .308 deep; 7x57, seat it .284 deep..I do this with 180s and 160s respectively..You will get a little jump with lighter bullets but that option has never effected accuracy in any rifle of mine, I consider it yellow journalism for the most part to make that claim, one guy claimed it and many joined in without justification other then it must be true!! but then my experience is a barrel will shoot or it won't, having to play games with a barrel isn't in the cards with me, I will dump it and get another.