In the hands of a very experienced shooter/hunter...using premium bullets & a very reasonably distance and well placed shot...yes...

But there are too many other better choices for an elk that deserves the right weapon with good heavy bullets placed properly...

Elk are tough critters to put down and keep down...use enough gun...my 6.5x55 Tikka with 140 Nosler PTs put a cow elk in the freezer last December with one shot...taken @ 180 yds...my minimum caliber recomadation for elk...

When the .338 Win Mag was introduced in 1958 it was advertised as the ideal North American magnum for the largest game North American such as brown bear, grizzly elk and moose. Soon it became the most popular medium bore cartridge in North America. There was no need for a bigger bore such as 375 H&H and up for use in the US, as a 250 grain bullet such as the likes of a Nosler Partition was more than adequate. Federal's Premium Safari Rifle load pushes a 250 grain Nosler Partition bullet at a MV of 2,660 fps and at 200 yards at 2,300 fps. The bullet offers a high BC of .473 and a high SD of .313 - as ideal as can be.

Warrior

The .338 WM the most popular medium bore in North America.....and in 1958.....prove it!

I would bet anything the 30-30 and the 30-06 were the most popular.

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:
...advertised as the ideal North American magnum...
Warrior

lots of advertising ..
i've seen FAR more 22s at the range than 223s, than 30-30. than 270s, than 30-06/308. than 243, than 8mauser, than 7.62x39... heck, i've seen more 500 nitros at the range than 338 winmags ...

Here is an article by Holt Bodinson ... "The 338 Winchester Magnum: King Of The Elk Cartridges" that tells the story about the cartridge. So yes, may be Mr Bodinson was lying through his teeth ... or just advertising ... pure hype ... or may be the 338 Win is as scarce as hen's teeth and becoming a relic of the past. So be it. Point remains, it is perhaps the most ideal cartridge for elk after its introduction in 1958 ... or perhaps for some time ... or perhaps now exceeded in popularity by whatever you fancy. I am sure I am not alone in me upholding the virtues of the 338 Win Mag as an elk gun. Cartridges have become so proliferated during the last decade that opinion is bound to vary. Take your pick.

http://findarticles.com/p/arti...s_11_46/ai_65574867/

And this sentence in particular may be of interest .... "The controlled expansion 250 gr. bullet has a high sectional density and ballistic coefficient and surprisingly good ranging qualities. It delivers tremendous energy and penetration upon impact. In thick elk covers, it gives the hunter the edge that maybe essential to the conclusion of a successful hunt."

And another one ... http://www.associatedcontent.c...nchester_magnum.html

From the Reload Bench:

"In 1987 the editon of a popular hunting magazine asked thirty gun writers, outfitters, and shooting industry officials what cartridge they would pick if restricted to hunting all North American big game with one rifle. Naturally, the .30-06 was the first choice by a considerable margin. The big surprise came when the .338 Winchester Magnum, .340 Weatherby Magnum, and the 7mm Remington Magnum tied for second place. The .280 Remington came in third, followed by the .270 Winchester. The .300 Winchester and .300 Weatherby Magnums tied for fifth place."

Warrior

quote:

Originally posted by Geedubya:

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
when Hot Core and I were hunting elk together in North Carolina, he was carrying the same 243 with a Blue Dot load he developed... he had shot several hundred elk with it at distances up to 1000 yds...with open sights...

Seafire, I've always known you to be a sober and circumspect fellow. Are you sure you're not embellishing a little. Its hard to believe ranges above 750 yds.


GWB

yeah GW,

but YOU ain't HOT CORE!

I mean I have watched the man nail flies at 1000 yds right off the head of a 30 point buck, without ever hitting the buck's head....

and he did it with his EYES CLOSED!!!!

in the field Hot Core " LET'S 'THE FORCE' BE WITH HIM"....

I was also really impressed with that 1/4 inch group at 600 yds, he shot while standing on his head...

That Man Knows Rifles, and knows how to shoot!!!!

and he does it all with Blue Dot Loads!!!

Yup, HC is truely a legend.....


Well, in his own mind, anyway!

Good ones, Seafire!

"Elk Cartridges Yesterday And Today" by by Holt Bodinson

http://findarticles.com/p/arti...s_11_47/ai_78900533/

Hunting New Mexico Elk

Carrying a Savage Model 116 "Weather Warrior" rifle, Petersen’s Hunting Editor Mike Schoby hunts New Mexico elk and connects on a bull from 340 yards.

http://findarticles.com/p/arti...s_11_47/ai_78900533/

Elk taken with a 45-70 with open sites @ 204 yds

476 inch elk, was at the time, the #6 world record. Taken with an original Sharps 1874 sporting rifle (.45-.70), iron sites at 204 yards.

http://youtu.be/AFtxM2muohk

Warrior

.243 would be fine for elk, if you put the bullet exactly where it needed to be. I wouldn't trust myself to do that when there are other choices. However I would take a 600 yard shot again and again if there was little wind and I was confident in my rifle.

Caliber: .243 Win
Bullet: 100 gr Nosler Partition
BC: 0.384
Muzzle velocity: 2,980 fps
Scope: 1.5" above LOS
Wind: 10 mpu cross-wind

The modeled trajectory is as follows:

Distance ---- Velocity ----- Bullet Drop --- Wind drift
300 yds ----- 2,280 Fps ----- Zero ---------- 7.6"
400 yds ----- 2,073 Fps ----- 11.5" --------- 14.2"
500 yds ----- 1,875 Fps ----- 30.8" --------- 23.0"
600 yds ----- 1,691 Fps ----- 60.8" --------- 35.3"

Apart from the above, the .243 would run out of steam on big game such as elk beyond 300 yds, and it would scare me to apply the .243 in this way. On another front, the bullet would not open up at such a low velocity and behave like a solid. The terminal momentum is way too low for my liking at such an extended range to risk a shot. Even if the scope, say a 22 power, tricks one in believing it is close enough, one still has to contend with range estimation and bullet drop if zeroed in a mid-position like 300 yds. A bullet drop of 60.8" and a windrift of 35.3" is not easily compensated for, unless you have benchrest equipment and experience.

Warrior

Pete is a distinguished PH (was awarded "PH of the year" some 8 years ago), and he has the following to say:

"A 243 is a great cartridge for common reedbuck etc & also great to teach kids to hunt with. A few of my friends shoot kudu, gemsbuck, hartebeest, zebra regularly with them, but I just don’t get it. Whereas you can shoot anything with anything, for me the test of a cartridge is very simple – it must have the legs to get you out of a situation gone wrong i.e, can you shoot a wounded animal running away from you and expect an outcome? – I think not."

Pete Kennedy

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:
"get you out of a situation gone wrong"

As true in hunting as it is in all aspects of life. Failure to observe this "truth" is what unfortunately keeps me in business.

Another "truth" in hunting and in life (and akin to Pete Kennedy's statement) is a quote from Dirty Harry:

"A man's got to know his limitations."

If the hunter has the skill, knowledge, ability and self control to do it right every time and pass on it when it's not perfect, then I'd couldn't say "it's wrong" but I'd still be thinking about Pete's perspective.

I guess Elk are about the same size as our red deer with a red Stag over here wieghing 4-600lbs dressed.

I routinely use a 234 and 70 Nosler BT's for culling work on red deer and find it to be a very effective combo.

Does your culling involve head-shots only, or do you take body shots as well?

Warrior

A real mixture really.

A rough guide is below although there are always exceptions

0-100m Mostly Head and High Neck shots

100-200m Mostly Low Neck and Chest shots

200-300m Chest shots

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:
Pete is a distinguished PH (was awarded "PH of the year" some 8 years ago), and he has the following to say:

"A 243 is a great cartridge for common reedbuck etc & also great to teach kids to hunt with. A few of my friends shoot kudu, gemsbuck, hartebeest, zebra regularly with them, but I just don’t get it. Whereas you can shoot anything with anything, for me the test of a cartridge is very simple – it must have the legs to get you out of a situation gone wrong i.e, can you shoot a wounded animal running away from you and expect an outcome? – I think not."

Pete Kennedy

Well put.

The .243 is adequate for elk just like Obama is adequate as a president.

Hot Core is the elk specialist, and he should be telling us what he regards as the smallest caliber and bullet weight, and perhaps the velocity as well, as he shot around a 1000, or so.

Warrior

quote:

Originally posted by DJM:
I guess Elk are about the same size as our red deer with a red Stag over here wieghing 4-600lbs dressed.

I routinely use a 234 and 70 Nosler BT's for culling work on red deer and find it to be a very effective combo.

Elk are typically quite a bit larger than reds or African game like kudu.

What are the typical sizes and weights of Bulls Cows and calves?

I shoot a good number of Pere Davids and swamp deer to with the 243

I've stayed away from this topic for four pages, but I just can't help but ask.

Why is this not in the small caliber forum?
Is it because the mammal in question is not considered small game.

Why do we not see threads for 6mm Remington VS. elk?

Just sayin...........

GWB

quote:

Why do we not see threads for 6mm Remington VS. elk?

Don't give anyone any ideas!!!!

Warrior-

Just in case you didn't see it, I posted a response to your question about calling elk....

It is pretty much at the end of the "New Mountain Rifle...Dilemna..." thread here in the Medium Bore forum.

-------------------

BTW, I agree that elk can be killed with a .243. But is it an adequate cartridge for all around hunting of that game? In my opinion, absolutely no. If it was up to me, any rifle with less than 139 grain bullets or less than 6.5 m/m diameter bore would not be allowed for shooting bull elk.

Yeh, I know that is no perfect answer, but it would be an enforceable one.

And I know it would bar my own 6 m/ms and .25s (including my .257 Wby), but I could live with that.

If a guy can't handle a .260 Rem or a 7x57, or something on that order, I really don't think he should be out there whanging away at elk, no matter how skilled he is. Too much can go wrong, resulting in an escaped and suffering animal, to not use a full sufficiency of gun.

I also know that rule of mine may nor be fair to some physically handicapped shooters...I am one those these days myself. But then wildnerness areas aren't "fair" to them either with no motorized access at all even though their taxes go to support those areas. So who said life was supposed to be fair, anyway?

I think I hear the lynch mob coming, so will stand down for the moment. Back to you....and best wishes.

quote:

Originally posted by DJM:
What are the typical sizes and weights of Bulls Cows and calves?

I shoot a good number of Pere Davids and swamp deer to with the 243

Rocky Mountain Elk (according to some older articles I have the Journal of Mammology)average 750lbs for bulls and 550lbs for cows. Roosevelt elk up to a 1000lbs for bulls, 700 for cows. Some folks talk about RM elk bulls that go over 1000? I have never weighed one of course but comparing live size to reds they do appear larger for sure.

I don't like a .243 for Deer sized game, if you are after the trophy anima. Good shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by kayaker:

quote:

Originally posted by DJM:
What are the typical sizes and weights of Bulls Cows and calves?

I shoot a good number of Pere Davids and swamp deer to with the 243

Rocky Mountain Elk (according to some older articles I have the Journal of Mammology)average 750lbs for bulls and 550lbs for cows. Roosevelt elk up to a 1000lbs for bulls, 700 for cows. Some folks talk about RM elk bulls that go over 1000? I have never weighed one of course but comparing live size to reds they do appear larger for sure.

Are those live weights?

This is a North East New Mexico Cow I shot 2 seasons ago.

She weighed 360 with no guts, head, hooves or hide just carcass weight. Probably a 500 punder live.

My first centerfire rifle was a Ruger .243 purchased in 1978. The dozen elk I killed with it thought it was adequate.
I then purchased a .338 win and the next dozen elk were just as dead.
Yup. I'm in MT. Both calibers are potent elk killers.

Ski+3

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:
Hot Core is the elk specialist, and he should be telling us what he regards as the smallest caliber and bullet weight, and perhaps the velocity as well, as he shot around a 1000, or so.

Warrior

The only time Hotcore has killed an elk is in his dreams. Hotcore is short on experience but long on unqualified advice

quote:

Originally posted by SkiBumplus3:
My first centerfire rifle was a Ruger .243 purchased in 1978. The dozen elk I killed with it thought it was adequate.
I then purchased a .338 win and the next dozen elk were just as dead.
Yup. I'm in MT. Both calibers are potent elk killers.

Ski+3

You mean that you don't know that the 243 will not kill an Elk. I know this to be true because of all of those that have never done it or seen it done said that the 243 is inadequate
therefore it must be true

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
This is a North East New Mexico Cow I shot 2 seasons ago.

She weighed 360 with no guts, head, hooves or hide just carcass weight. Probably a 500 punder live.

You should have posted this on 24 hr in Video thread

my "old man"(not my father but the guy who took my young butt hunting a lot) use to take a rem 600 in 243 to colorado or new mexico every year and never lost an elk he shot at. but he was old, seasoned , calm and would wait for "the shot". i think he took only broadside lung shots or close range neck shots. we all know there are better elk cartridges but the 243 will do it. still, i wouldn't use it unless i had nothing else