quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Brainard:
...He routinely made head shots, off hand, at 300 yards, but of course he had been killing 2 to 300 animals annually for a long time. ...

Then the actual Target Area would be "smaller" than the end of a dressed 2"x4" board(maybe a 1.4"x3.5"), with varying wind and uneven footing.

No doubt he is ready to make a clean-sweep of the Olympic Trophys, the Whittington Center Shoots and every other shoot he enters.

Amazing(and I don't mean the shooting)!

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by montdoug:
Every time I show up on this site I'm reminded of why I seldom show up on this site.
There are a number of great guys who are actually "hunters" here who are regularly mocked by the "kill em any way you can technology freaks" that seem to hang here and pound each other on the back to justify their slob hunting practices. Guys with fat wallets that have all the gear they think makes up for their lack of hunting skills. They brag up all their "long range" kills and never mention the gut shot get-aways cause quite frankly they just don't give a shit! Pathetic!
If after 40 or 50 years of humping those hills hunting elk a man can't comprehend the concept of respecting them as a quarry he falls solidly in the category of the latter group and sure as hell don't rate hunting those animals just cause he has the money to do so! I see em up there in the mountains all the time and as I said, they make me wanna puke!
I shoot p-dogs and rockchucks at over 600 yards every summer so I understand what it takes to hit small targets at long distance. Varmint hunting is my thing and technology and shooting three to five thousand rounds a year on paper and otherwise teaches a guy a lot on top of USMC training as a teen back in 66. Lotta fun, nothing to it just good equipment and practice. However, in my world there actually is wind and critters moving with imperfect conditions and to be quite frank I was raised to know that hunting means understanding the quarry, reading the wind, learning to stalk, actually "hunting", not just upping the technology ante to be able to play some kinda long range sniper with those magnificent animals with no regards whatsoever as to what it all means when you been raised in a hunting family with a hunting heritage. I pity the poor bastard that can't grasp that concept and I been living on elk meat all of my life. I shot my bull this year with a .358 Winchester in a Savage 99 at about 225 yards, a long shot for me on elk actually. I'd snuck into the midst of the herd and could smell em before I saw em and they didn't have a clue I was there, even with as many elk as I've killed at 62 I was as excited about this one as the first and yes I coulda killed him with a .243 but I'm an ole mountain boy that is backwards enough that I do respect the animals that I hunt for food, to pass on shots that ain't perfect,to live for the hunt and not the kill. The killing of em is damn sure a distant second to the hunting of em and my pity to those that don't get that fact even if they know how a dictionary works.
So you just fire away and mock my dumb back woods ass for what I believe cause I care less. If long range sniping of elk was the game I coulda filled the back of 7 or 8 pickup trucks this season alone, big F'ing deal, don't mean nuthin!!!

Another one of those "do it my way" or your wrong. The old BS that my way and my interpretation is RIGHT and any other than MY WAY is wrong is total BS

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by montdoug:
Every time I show up on this site I'm reminded of why I seldom show up on this site.
There are a number of great guys who are actually "hunters" here who are regularly mocked by the "kill em any way you can technology freaks" that seem to hang here and pound each other on the back to justify their slob hunting practices. Guys with fat wallets that have all the gear they think makes up for their lack of hunting skills. They brag up all their "long range" kills and never mention the gut shot get-aways cause quite frankly they just don't give a shit! Pathetic!
If after 40 or 50 years of humping those hills hunting elk a man can't comprehend the concept of respecting them as a quarry he falls solidly in the category of the latter group and sure as hell don't rate hunting those animals just cause he has the money to do so! I see em up there in the mountains all the time and as I said, they make me wanna puke!
I shoot p-dogs and rockchucks at over 600 yards every summer so I understand what it takes to hit small targets at long distance. Varmint hunting is my thing and technology and shooting three to five thousand rounds a year on paper and otherwise teaches a guy a lot on top of USMC training as a teen back in 66. Lotta fun, nothing to it just good equipment and practice. However, in my world there actually is wind and critters moving with imperfect conditions and to be quite frank I was raised to know that hunting means understanding the quarry, reading the wind, learning to stalk, actually "hunting", not just upping the technology ante to be able to play some kinda long range sniper with those magnificent animals with no regards whatsoever as to what it all means when you been raised in a hunting family with a hunting heritage. I pity the poor bastard that can't grasp that concept and I been living on elk meat all of my life. I shot my bull this year with a .358 Winchester in a Savage 99 at about 225 yards, a long shot for me on elk actually. I'd snuck into the midst of the herd and could smell em before I saw em and they didn't have a clue I was there, even with as many elk as I've killed at 62 I was as excited about this one as the first and yes I coulda killed him with a .243 but I'm an ole mountain boy that is backwards enough that I do respect the animals that I hunt for food, to pass on shots that ain't perfect,to live for the hunt and not the kill. The killing of em is damn sure a distant second to the hunting of em and my pity to those that don't get that fact even if they know how a dictionary works.
So you just fire away and mock my dumb back woods ass for what I believe cause I care less. If long range sniping of elk was the game I coulda filled the back of 7 or 8 pickup trucks this season alone, big F'ing deal, don't mean nuthin!!!

Another one of those "do it my way" or your wrong. The old BS that my way and my interpretation is RIGHT and any other than MY WAY is wrong is total BS

Bingo +1 Seems like some of the older lads on these boards feel "threatened" in their opinions when you put forth a new idea or concept. A very uncomfortable position for many of them to be in.

What has always worked in their world is now being challenged and they view any change to be a negative experience. Kind of sad but then again hilarious to watch.

quote:

You know who you are!

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by montdoug:
Every time I show up on this site I'm reminded of why I seldom show up on this site.
There are a number of great guys who are actually "hunters" here who are regularly mocked by the "kill em any way you can technology freaks" that seem to hang here and pound each other on the back to justify their slob hunting practices. Guys with fat wallets that have all the gear they think makes up for their lack of hunting skills. They brag up all their "long range" kills and never mention the gut shot get-aways cause quite frankly they just don't give a shit! Pathetic!
If after 40 or 50 years of humping those hills hunting elk a man can't comprehend the concept of respecting them as a quarry he falls solidly in the category of the latter group and sure as hell don't rate hunting those animals just cause he has the money to do so! I see em up there in the mountains all the time and as I said, they make me wanna puke!
I shoot p-dogs and rockchucks at over 600 yards every summer so I understand what it takes to hit small targets at long distance. Varmint hunting is my thing and technology and shooting three to five thousand rounds a year on paper and otherwise teaches a guy a lot on top of USMC training as a teen back in 66. Lotta fun, nothing to it just good equipment and practice. However, in my world there actually is wind and critters moving with imperfect conditions and to be quite frank I was raised to know that hunting means understanding the quarry, reading the wind, learning to stalk, actually "hunting", not just upping the technology ante to be able to play some kinda long range sniper with those magnificent animals with no regards whatsoever as to what it all means when you been raised in a hunting family with a hunting heritage. I pity the poor bastard that can't grasp that concept and I been living on elk meat all of my life. I shot my bull this year with a .358 Winchester in a Savage 99 at about 225 yards, a long shot for me on elk actually. I'd snuck into the midst of the herd and could smell em before I saw em and they didn't have a clue I was there, even with as many elk as I've killed at 62 I was as excited about this one as the first and yes I coulda killed him with a .243 but I'm an ole mountain boy that is backwards enough that I do respect the animals that I hunt for food, to pass on shots that ain't perfect,to live for the hunt and not the kill. The killing of em is damn sure a distant second to the hunting of em and my pity to those that don't get that fact even if they know how a dictionary works.
So you just fire away and mock my dumb back woods ass for what I believe cause I care less. If long range sniping of elk was the game I coulda filled the back of 7 or 8 pickup trucks this season alone, big F'ing deal, don't mean nuthin!!!

Another one of those "do it my way" or your wrong. The old BS that my way and my interpretation is RIGHT and any other than MY WAY is wrong is total BS

Bingo +1 Seems like some of the older lads on these boards feel "threatened" in their opinions when you put forth a new idea or concept. A very uncomfortable position for many of them to be in.

What has always worked in their world is now being challenged and they view any change to be a negative experience. Kind of sad but then again hilarious to watch.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

WHAT A CROCK !!! roger

quote:

Originally posted by Oday450:

quote:

National Rifle Association Life Member

The question was phrased is it adequate. See definition:

"ad·e·quate
adj \ˈa-di-kwət\
Definition of ADEQUATE
1: sufficient for a specific requirement <adequate taxation of goods>; also : barely sufficient or satisfactory <her first performance was merely adequate> "

By definition, if used in specific conditions (perfect shot placement, short range, etc.)it can be adequate and IMHO is always barely sufficient.

quote:

Originally posted by Bear in Fairbanks:
Not only NO!!! But HELL NO!!!
A magnificent animal like that deserve more respect.
Bear in Fairbanks

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:

quote:

Originally posted by Bear in Fairbanks:
Not only NO!!! But HELL NO!!!
A magnificent animal like that deserve more respect.
Bear in Fairbanks

Dude, we're not playing basketball with them. We're killing them.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul B:

If the ranch we were hunting on had been more brushy oe more heavily wooded, I'm thinking half those beer may not have been recovered.


As the late Elmer Keith once said, "I prefer to let every man scratch his own fleas in whatever manner he chooses."
Paul B.

quote:

Originally posted by Rub Line:
I just hate these treads. Like,'is the 223 suitable for deer' or 'are barnes bullets any good', yes, no, maybe. I sometimes wonder if they are started for a purposeful outcome in mind.

No offence intended to the original poster, by the way.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by Rub Line:
I just hate these treads. Like,'is the 223 suitable for deer' or 'are barnes bullets any good', yes, no, maybe. I sometimes wonder if they are started for a purposeful outcome in mind.

No offence intended to the original poster, by the way.

AMEN brother!!

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey MontDoug, Kinda got wound up a bit there by the Rookies ignorance didn't ya. GREAT post!

Semper Fi!

quote:

Originally posted by montdoug:

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey MontDoug, Kinda got wound up a bit there by the Rookies ignorance didn't ya. GREAT post!

Semper Fi!

Like we've talked about before, happens every time. I enjoy hunting and shooting to much to hang here what with my temper and all, real dumb on my part (to many years a hunter safety instructor and member of the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation I guess, never learn ).
The .243 vs elk part wasn't what hooked me it was the video of that nifty "little" 6.5 Creedmore being used on elk at 600+ yards. I called a friend who works at Hornady to see if they were part of that? Answer no!. Said he personally found it obscene, but what do they know? They just developed the round (neat one too, I see one in my future). Should be outstanding for it's intended purpose and within reasonable limitations.
Every time I show up here it seems I find another hill to die on , some of us dumb ole peckerwoods never seem to learn. My best to those who posted that understand what "hunting" is all about.

Semper Fi to you too my man!

quote:

Originally posted by rolltop:
Lets see if we can get the same response on this thread.

Is the .243 adequate for elk?

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
You know, I get pretty sick and tired of hearing about Karamojo Bell as justification for using an inadequate or marginal at best cartridge.
The only thing I can say to those folks is: you ain't no Karamojo Bell.

quote:

you ain't no Karamojo Bell

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:

quote:

Originally posted by montdoug:

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey MontDoug, Kinda got wound up a bit there by the Rookies ignorance didn't ya. GREAT post!

Semper Fi!

Like we've talked about before, happens every time. I enjoy hunting and shooting to much to hang here what with my temper and all, real dumb on my part (to many years a hunter safety instructor and member of the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation I guess, never learn ).
The .243 vs elk part wasn't what hooked me it was the video of that nifty "little" 6.5 Creedmore being used on elk at 600+ yards. I called a friend who works at Hornady to see if they were part of that? Answer no!. Said he personally found it obscene, but what do they know? They just developed the round (neat one too, I see one in my future). Should be outstanding for it's intended purpose and within reasonable limitations.
Every time I show up here it seems I find another hill to die on , some of us dumb ole peckerwoods never seem to learn. My best to those who posted that understand what "hunting" is all about.

Semper Fi to you too my man!

For what it may be worth, I found your post totally realistic, I am 64, have spent my entire life except for 3 months, in Elk, Grizzly, Moose country in BC-Alberta and worked in the wilderness, often alone, for much of that time. Like you, I tend to be a dumbass old peckerwood that bases his opinions on longterm personal experience and, I also have owned, loaded for and shot two .243Win. rifles.

I will hunt Elk and have, with a .270Win-150NP and a .280Rem.-150/160NP and that is the smallest combo I feel "adequately" armed with. I much prefer my .338WM-250NP and 9.3x62-286NP rifles and only carry a smaller combo when I have a cow draw and in agricultural areas, relatively free of bears.

But, WTF, I am only an old phart and what would I know....good posts, stick around and don't let your temper flare because of some "young'un's" blether,..... just think about "geezerpower"! just think about "geezerpower"!

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
To the posters who feel the hunt was a stunt, at what distance is it a stunt to shoot and kill a deer with a crossbow or compound?

quote:

Originally posted by B. L. O'Connor:

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
To the posters who feel the hunt was a stunt, at what distance is it a stunt to shoot and kill a deer with a crossbow or compound?

I'm interested . . . did I just miss a response to this question, or has there been none?

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
For those that didn't know this he was Actually known as WDM Bell....and that was leter slurred to WMD Bell.....the WMD meaning... "Weapons of Mass Destruction"

quote:

Originally posted by Mike73:

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
LOL Mike, I knew you would come over to the dark side.

I shot one deer with the 55 gr ballistic tip in 243. By the grace of god, 1 piece of shrapnel went beyond the pothole and tore the heart.
Too close for comfort.
Mike73

quote:

Karamajo Bell shot many elephants with a 6.5X54 Mannlicher schoenauer and over 1000 elephants with a 7X57.

quote:

i guess the 243 is adequate for elk IF the elk isn't too far away and IF you pick your shot carefully and IF you have the right bullet, and IF you don't own a larger caliber rifle. otherwise, i'd take something with a bit more horsepower. ymmv.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul B:
Montdoug, Good post. I'm not much of a fan of the 243 anyway. I've never shot a deer with one but the one I had was used by youngsters on their first deer hunts. They had no rifle so they used mine and I guided them. Out of six deer killed with that rifle before I moved from the area, one was an impressive bang/flop/DRT. The other five ran anywhere from about 50 yards to one that went over 200 yard before falling. All six deer were good solid chest hits. Ranges for the shot ran from 35 yards for one to maybe 125 yards for the longest shot.
With that said, I'm not comfortale with using the .243 for deer sized game. If the ranch we were hunting on had been more brushy oe more heavily wooded, I'm thinking half those beer may not have been recovered.
Now I realize only six deer is not much statistically speaking but it does give me the idea that there must be something better. These deer BTW were fairly big bodied Nevada Mule Deer, grown fat living off the rancher's alfalfa fields.
I just came home from my elk hunt in New Mexico. Not being too sure what kind of ranges I'd have to shoot at, I took my .35 Whelen and my .300 Win. mag. The Whelen did the trick on a nice fat cow elk, one shot, bang/flop/DRT so hard she bounced. That's the way I like to see any animal go down, DRT.
I don't go for ego trip heads on the wall. In fact, I only have one head on my wall, the antelope I shot last year, my first BTW. Like Mountdoug, I prefer good tasting meat, not the rank stuff from some rutting horny animal.
Anyway, thats JMHO. Go with whatever floats your boat. As the late Elmer Keith once said, "I prefer to let every man scratch his own fleas in whatever manner he chooses."
Paul B.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
when Hot Core and I were hunting elk together in North Carolina, he was carrying the same 243 with a Blue Dot load he developed... he had shot several hundred elk with it at distances up to 1000 yds...with open sights...